From: Steve H. <dig...@da...> - 2006-11-07 19:50:49
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From: Duncan Lithgow, Tue, November 07, 2006 2:24 pm > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 00:22 -0500, Steve Hall wrote: > > > > Per the discussions on irc.freenode.net#gramps tonight, I'd like > > to request the traditional Family View. Ages ago, I did a mockup > > for one: > > > > http://www.dancingpaper.com/gramps-ui/familyview-2005-03-12.png > > > > However, with the new GTK+ interface, it might start with > > something like: > > > > http://www.dancingpaper.com/gramps-ui/family-view_2006-10-30.png > > > > and then add a few more tidbits like places and Father/Mother marrige: > > How does this differ in functionality to the relationships view? Family view: 1. Highlights a nuclear family 2. Shows complete information about Father and Mother 3. Is the ubiquitously accepted genealogical form for showing such information. Relationship view is something unique to GRAMPS and fails to properly detail the set of closely related individuals, dates, and places in a specific family. It is useful for explaining extended or non-traditional family structures, but at the expense of showing complete detail of a single level. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] |
From: Steve H. <dig...@da...> - 2006-11-07 20:29:07
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From: "Gerald Britton", Tue, November 07, 2006 3:23 pm > > Compared to the current Family Editor, what information would be > visible in the new view that is currently hidden? Also, how would > you edit family-related information from the proposed new view? The current Family Editor is not a view, it's a dialog box. Having to open a dialog box just to view info is a huge pain. Plus, it's not navigable. Editing information should be done by double-clicking the individuals to which it is attached. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] |
From: Gerald B. <ger...@gm...> - 2006-11-07 20:44:01
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Actually the family editor is sort of a cross between a view and a dialog box. That is, you can use it to use current info OR update the info. For me, I use the relationship view to just view an (extended) family's info and the family editor to make changes to it. On the other question, I wasn't actually asking about editing individuals' information, but *family* information -- i.e. things that are displayed under the various tabs of the family editor. On 11/7/06, Steve Hall <dig...@da...> wrote: > From: "Gerald Britton", Tue, November 07, 2006 3:23 pm > > > > Compared to the current Family Editor, what information would be > > visible in the new view that is currently hidden? Also, how would > > you edit family-related information from the proposed new view? > > The current Family Editor is not a view, it's a dialog box. Having to > open a dialog box just to view info is a huge pain. Plus, it's not > navigable. > > Editing information should be done by double-clicking the individuals > to which it is attached. > > > -- > Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] > > |
From: Steve H. <dig...@da...> - 2006-11-07 20:55:42
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From: "Gerald Britton", Tue, November 07, 2006 3:43 pm > > Actually the family editor is sort of a cross between a view and a > dialog box. That is, you can use it to use current info OR update > the info. Yes, but because it is modal it does not lend itself to navigating the genealogical structure like the pedigree view. A dialog is for entering data, but the GRAMPS "views", like most other genealogical app screens, are for viewing and navigating the family. > For me, I use the relationship view to just view an > (extended) family's info and the family editor to make changes to > it. > > On the other question, I wasn't actually asking about editing > individuals' information, but *family* information -- i.e. things > that are displayed under the various tabs of the family editor. I wrote my thoughts on family events here: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=30855088&forum_id=1991 Basically, there are no such things as family facts, since facts are primarily associated with individuals and because any two individuals are likely to have a slightly different relationship to any particular piece of information. Are there any examples not subject to this pitfall? -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] |
From: Gerald B. <ger...@gm...> - 2006-11-07 21:01:00
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On 11/7/06, Steve Hall <dig...@da...> wrote: > From: "Gerald Britton", Tue, November 07, 2006 3:43 pm > > > > Actually the family editor is sort of a cross between a view and a > > dialog box. That is, you can use it to use current info OR update > > the info. > > Yes, but because it is modal it does not lend itself to navigating the > genealogical structure like the pedigree view. A dialog is for > entering data, but the GRAMPS "views", like most other genealogical > app screens, are for viewing and navigating the family. Well, the relationship view works for me for navigating the structure. > > > For me, I use the relationship view to just view an > > (extended) family's info and the family editor to make changes to > > it. > > > > On the other question, I wasn't actually asking about editing > > individuals' information, but *family* information -- i.e. things > > that are displayed under the various tabs of the family editor. > > I wrote my thoughts on family events here: > > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=30855088&forum_id=1991 > > Basically, there are no such things as family facts, since facts are > primarily associated with individuals and because any two individuals > are likely to have a slightly different relationship to any particular > piece of information. Are there any examples not subject to this > pitfall? > As far as I know, family events are supported by GEDCOM, so I guess gramps has to as well. What about the other stuff, though: Sources, Attributes, Notes, Gallery and LDS. These all have good family-level uses (e.g. a family photograph) > > > -- > Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] > > |
From: Steve H. <dig...@da...> - 2006-11-07 21:55:08
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From: "Gerald Britton", Tue, November 07, 2006 4:00 pm > On 11/7/06, Steve Hall wrote: > > From: "Gerald Britton", Tue, November 07, 2006 3:43 pm > > > > > > Actually the family editor is sort of a cross between a view and > > > a dialog box. That is, you can use it to use current info OR > > > update the info. > > > > Yes, but because it is modal it does not lend itself to navigating > > the genealogical structure like the pedigree view. A dialog is for > > entering data, but the GRAMPS "views", like most other > > genealogical app screens, are for viewing and navigating the > > family. > > Well, the relationship view works for me for navigating the > structure. Yes, Relationship View is good for navigation, I prefer this method over the pedigree. This is why I requested Family View, it is the most concise set of relationships from which to navigate. My only suggestion was to make the expected result of clicking on the links predictable (thus the arrow buttons). > > I wrote my thoughts on family events here: > > > > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=30855088&forum_id=1991 > > > > Basically, there are no such things as family facts, since facts > > are primarily associated with individuals and because any two > > individuals are likely to have a slightly different relationship > > to any particular piece of information. Are there any examples not > > subject to this pitfall? > > As far as I know, family events are supported by GEDCOM, so I guess > gramps has to as well. What about the other stuff, though: Sources, > Attributes, Notes, Gallery and LDS. These all have good > family-level uses (e.g. a family photograph) Of the above, photos are a decent exception. But again, once you start attaching information to families (groups of people), it starts making report generation considerably more complex. Such as... How does one decide when to show it or when to hide it? Does the user have to decide? And how does one navigate families? How is any person decided to be connected? If families are attached to primary individuals (i.e., Father and Mother), why not just attach the info to those individuals, or to their shared events? I realize that some consider families a "special" relationship regardless of marriage or offspring, but relative to genealogy, some definitive classification must be made to decide if an event is attached to a group or not--yet another reason I prefer to attach events to specific individuals with the exception of "shared" events like marriage or divorce. To prove my point, I'll make an example of the current GRAMPS Family Editor. You will notice an Events tab, but one of the events listed is marriage. THIS IS NOT A FAMILY EVENT! This is not shared by anyone other than an individual and spouse. So is a Husband-Wife relationship the definition of a family or does it also include their offspring? If the first, why is it called "Family Event", and if the latter, how do the children share the marriage event?! To continue, notice that there is a Sources tab. Is this a source for a family? What individuals does it relate to, all or just the primary? Does it regard only the marriage event, or is it also applicable to births, church membership, and immigration? Going further, click on one of these events. You will get (yet) another dialog, nested from the first. It too has a source tab! Now, surely, this is specific to only that specific event, but it leaves me confused about what the first, more general Family source was for. How would I be able to reference a source for a family without relating it to a specific individual or event?! IMO, this is a case where less is more. Completely eliminating family data (family list, editor, reports) would only help navigation, attributing sources, and recording family history in a more understandable way. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] |
From: Gerald B. <ger...@gm...> - 2006-11-07 21:55:27
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[snip] I believe that in gramps parlance, a marriage is a family event that creates the family. |
From: <ben...@ug...> - 2006-11-08 09:55:02
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I just installed gramps with apt-get on Kubuntu 6.10, Feisty. That is version 2.0.11. Next I upgraded to 2.2.2-1 Apparently yelp is needed, and that then installs firefox (which on kubuntu is not installed by default). I understand that in 2.2.x gramps is split in two packages, and the main package (without help) does not need yelp. Only the help package needs yelp, and hence firefox. Nevertheless, is this firefox dependency really needed? I would nor really install firefox, but should I install it, I would use the Mozilla version from their homepage, not the version in the package manager. Or should I complain with the yelp people about this? Benny ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. |
From: Alexandre P. <ale...@gm...> - 2006-11-08 10:45:59
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On 11/8/06, benny.malengier wrote: > Nevertheless, is this firefox dependency really needed? Please address this question to Ubuntu and Firefox developers. I understand your point of view, but having no shareable Gecko library and thus requirement for full Firefox installation is not fault of GRAMPS developers. I believe it's still possible to make Yelp use gtkhtml, if that will make you happier ;-) Alexandre |
From: Steve H. <dig...@da...> - 2006-11-07 22:14:07
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From: "Gerald Britton", Tue, November 07, 2006 4:51 pm > > [snip] > > I believe that in gramps parlance, a marriage is a family event that > creates the family. But it is un-restricted, any event can be a family event. This opens the door to considerable confusion. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] |
From: Piotr C. <pio...@gm...> - 2006-11-08 12:18:30
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For me marriage is a family event because it glues two people that might or might not later have children. On 11/7/06, Steve Hall <dig...@da...> wrote: > From: "Gerald Britton", Tue, November 07, 2006 4:51 pm > > > > [snip] > > > > I believe that in gramps parlance, a marriage is a family event that > > creates the family. > > But it is un-restricted, any event can be a family event. This opens the > door to considerable confusion. > > > -- > Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-devel mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel > |
From: Gerald B. <ger...@gm...> - 2006-11-07 20:23:29
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Compared to the current Family Editor, what information would be visible in the new view that is currently hidden? Also, how would you edit family-related information from the proposed new view? On 11/7/06, Steve Hall <dig...@da...> wrote: > From: Duncan Lithgow, Tue, November 07, 2006 2:24 pm > > On Tue, 2006-10-31 at 00:22 -0500, Steve Hall wrote: > > > > > > Per the discussions on irc.freenode.net#gramps tonight, I'd like > > > to request the traditional Family View. Ages ago, I did a mockup > > > for one: > > > > > > http://www.dancingpaper.com/gramps-ui/familyview-2005-03-12.png > > > > > > However, with the new GTK+ interface, it might start with > > > something like: > > > > > > http://www.dancingpaper.com/gramps-ui/family-view_2006-10-30.png > > > > > > and then add a few more tidbits like places and Father/Mother marrige: > > > > How does this differ in functionality to the relationships view? > > Family view: > > 1. Highlights a nuclear family > 2. Shows complete information about Father and Mother > 3. Is the ubiquitously accepted genealogical form for showing such > information. > > Relationship view is something unique to GRAMPS and fails to properly > detail the set of closely related individuals, dates, and places in a > specific family. It is useful for explaining extended or > non-traditional family structures, but at the expense of showing > complete detail of a single level. > > > -- > Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-devel mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel > |