From: jerome <rom...@ya...> - 2015-07-05 08:24:09
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https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gramps/id629159274?mt=8 "Stamboom" becomes "Gramps" for itunes... http://niapps.com/index.php/stamboom/ ... what a wonderful world ! |
From: Enno B. <enn...@gm...> - 2015-07-05 08:43:59
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Op 05-07-15 om 10:21 schreef jerome: > https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gramps/id629159274?mt=8 > > "Stamboom" becomes "Gramps" for itunes... > http://niapps.com/index.php/stamboom/ > ... what a wonderful world ! H'm, "stamboom" ... Dutch word. The company seems Dutch too, but I see no contact information on the iTunes site. Do we have rights for the Gramps name? Can we protest to Apple? It looks like a GEDCOM viewer/editor to me, where in the example a Gramps exported GEDCOM is used, which may be a hint that the developer is a Gramps user. regards, Enno |
From: jerome <rom...@ya...> - 2015-07-05 10:02:10
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Maybe Gramps as a public word cannot be protected? I hope so! As far I know we all looked at our gramps when we started our genealogy. ;-) Changing to an already known name and proposing an application (0.99$) is maybe not fair, but common. It can lead to confusion (customers and even Apple) but is not a part of the marketing? to play with law, free publicity and to hope that no one will complain, etc ... Oh, do you think that a gedcom generated by Gramps is used? Maybe! Sure, the author of this application is looking at the best available programs before making its own? :-) Do you think we should make a .gramps file reader for iPhone and iPad? I suppose that free applications are rejected on iTunes? Jérôme -------------------------------------------- En date de : Dim 5.7.15, Enno Borgsteede <enn...@gm...> a écrit : Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] Gramps on itunes ... À: gra...@li... Date: Dimanche 5 juillet 2015, 8h43 Op 05-07-15 om 10:21 schreef jerome: > https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gramps/id629159274?mt=8 > > "Stamboom" becomes "Gramps" for itunes... > http://niapps.com/index.php/stamboom/ > ... what a wonderful world ! H'm, "stamboom" ... Dutch word. The company seems Dutch too, but I see no contact information on the iTunes site. Do we have rights for the Gramps name? Can we protest to Apple? It looks like a GEDCOM viewer/editor to me, where in the example a Gramps exported GEDCOM is used, which may be a hint that the developer is a Gramps user. regards, Enno ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ _______________________________________________ Gramps-devel mailing list Gra...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel |
From: Enno B. <enn...@gm...> - 2015-07-05 11:01:16
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Op 05-07-15 om 11:59 schreef jerome: > Maybe Gramps as a public word cannot be protected? I hope so! Like Windows, protection might be possible in a specific context. Apple is a public word too, but can be protected in the sense of a record company (Beatles) and computers. > Changing to an already known name and proposing an application (0.99$) > is maybe not fair, but common. It can lead to confusion (customers and even Apple) > but is not a part of the marketing? to play with law, free publicity and to hope that no > one will complain, etc ... Even without formal protection, Apple may be quite sensitive to comments about software on iTunes, so it may be worth trying. Using Gramps as a name is certainly misrepresenting a bit. > Oh, do you think that a gedcom generated by Gramps is used? Yes, it's mentioned on the support page. Here's the English one: http://niapps.com/index.php/gramps-gedcom/?lang=en > Maybe! Sure, the author of this application is looking at the best > available programs before making its own? :-) Of course! > Do you think we should make a .gramps file reader for iPhone and iPad? Would be a nice exercise for John Ralls maybe, or for Doug Blank, if it can be based on Gramps connect. > I suppose that free applications are rejected on iTunes? If it's anything like Google play, I guess they allow free applications too. They attract visitors to the site, who may buy something sometime. regards, Enno |
From: John R. <jr...@ce...> - 2015-07-05 15:45:26
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> On Jul 5, 2015, at 2:59 AM, jerome <rom...@ya...> wrote: > > Maybe Gramps as a public word cannot be protected? I hope so! > As far I know we all looked at our gramps when we started our genealogy. ;-) > > Changing to an already known name and proposing an application (0.99$) > is maybe not fair, but common. It can lead to confusion (customers and even Apple) > but is not a part of the marketing? to play with law, free publicity and to hope that no > one will complain, etc ... > > Oh, do you think that a gedcom generated by Gramps is used? > Maybe! Sure, the author of this application is looking at the best > available programs before making its own? :-) > > Do you think we should make a .gramps file reader for iPhone and iPad? > I suppose that free applications are rejected on iTunes? It’s quite possible to register “Gramps” as a trademark and then sue niApps… unless they’ve already registered it, in which case *we* will have to change the name if they demand it. Unfortunately both registering trademarks and lawsuits are expensive. Regards, John Ralls |
From: jerome <rom...@ya...> - 2015-07-06 10:11:25
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Trademark issue like for Gnome? https://www.gnome.org//groupon/ -------------------------------------------- En date de : Dim 5.7.15, John Ralls <jr...@ce...> a écrit : Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] Gramps on itunes ... À: "jerome" <rom...@ya...> Cc: gra...@li..., "Enno Borgsteede" <enn...@gm...> Date: Dimanche 5 juillet 2015, 17h43 > On Jul 5, 2015, at 2:59 AM, jerome <rom...@ya...> wrote: > > Maybe Gramps as a public word cannot be protected? I hope so! > As far I know we all looked at our gramps when we started our genealogy. ;-) > > Changing to an already known name and proposing an application (0.99$) > is maybe not fair, but common. It can lead to confusion (customers and even Apple) > but is not a part of the marketing? to play with law, free publicity and to hope that no > one will complain, etc ... > > Oh, do you think that a gedcom generated by Gramps is used? > Maybe! Sure, the author of this application is looking at the best > available programs before making its own? :-) > > Do you think we should make a .gramps file reader for iPhone and iPad? > I suppose that free applications are rejected on iTunes? It’s quite possible to register “Gramps” as a trademark and then sue niApps… unless they’ve already registered it, in which case *we* will have to change the name if they demand it. Unfortunately both registering trademarks and lawsuits are expensive. Regards, John Ralls |
From: John R. <jr...@ce...> - 2015-07-06 14:26:15
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> On Jul 6, 2015, at 3:08 AM, jerome <rom...@ya...> wrote: > > Trademark issue like for Gnome? > https://www.gnome.org//groupon/ Exactly, except that we don’t have a foundation and AFAIK haven’t taken out any trademarks to defend. Regards, John Ralls |
From: Dale B. <dr...@ho...> - 2015-07-06 14:44:10
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Contact the original developer of Gramps. Register the trademark. Send a notice. On 07/06/2015 09:24 AM, John Ralls wrote: >> On Jul 6, 2015, at 3:08 AM, jerome <rom...@ya...> wrote: >> >> Trademark issue like for Gnome? >> https://www.gnome.org//groupon/ > Exactly, except that we don’t have a foundation and AFAIK haven’t taken out any trademarks to defend. > > Regards, > John Ralls > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. > GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that > you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. > Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. > https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-devel mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel |
From: jerome <rom...@ya...> - 2015-07-06 15:21:07
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Oh, then we can play! GRAMPS gramps GrAmPs G r a m p s G.R.A.M.P.S G_r_a_m_p_s G/r/a/m/p/s G:r:a:m:p:s G-r-a-m-p-s GrampsDeLuxe GrampsSpecialEdition GrampsOpenVersion iGramps If Alphabet sequences and separators are privatised, then we can also play with fonts, colors, sizes, etc ... Seriously, maybe having a "Dutch" culture[1], the author just wants to (re-use) a well known reference into the Genealogy and Genealogy program? Just like using 'gedcom' name? Does someone already use "Gedcom" as name!!! "Genealogical Data Converter Master" This could be fun... :-/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system) -------------------------------------------- En date de : Lun 6.7.15, John Ralls <jr...@ce...> a écrit : Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] Gramps on itunes ... À: "jerome" <rom...@ya...> Cc: gra...@li..., "Enno Borgsteede" <enn...@gm...> Date: Lundi 6 juillet 2015, 14h24 > On Jul 6, 2015, at 3:08 AM, jerome <rom...@ya...> wrote: > > Trademark issue like for Gnome? > https://www.gnome.org//groupon/ Exactly, except that we don’t have a foundation and AFAIK haven’t taken out any trademarks to defend. Regards, John Ralls |
From: John R. <jr...@ce...> - 2015-07-06 16:13:24
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> On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:18 AM, jerome <rom...@ya...> wrote: > > Oh, then we can play! > > GRAMPS > gramps > GrAmPs > G r a m p s > G.R.A.M.P.S > G_r_a_m_p_s > G/r/a/m/p/s > G:r:a:m:p:s > G-r-a-m-p-s > > GrampsDeLuxe > GrampsSpecialEdition > GrampsOpenVersion > > iGramps > > If Alphabet sequences and separators are privatised, > then we can also play with fonts, colors, sizes, etc ... > > Seriously, maybe having a "Dutch" culture[1], the author just wants > to (re-use) a well known reference into the Genealogy and Genealogy program? > > Just like using 'gedcom' name? > Does someone already use "Gedcom" as name!!! > "Genealogical Data Converter Master" > This could be fun... :-/ > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system) IANAL and all that, but my understanding of trademark law is that those spelling games are covered. If the author’s motivation is to trade on the reputation of our product that’s exactly what trademark law is intended to prevent. I imagine that even if FamilySearch did trademark GEDCOM they have probably lost it by now for lack of enforcement, and that common and widespread use would make any new trademark very difficult to defend in court. Regards, John Ralls |
From: Tim L. <guy...@gm...> - 2015-07-06 14:45:40
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John Ralls-2 wrote > Unfortunately both registering trademarks and lawsuits are expensive. Quite! (1) Does anyone know what this app actually does? I certainly don't want to support them with my money to download it to find out. The website (http://niapps.com/index.php/stamboom/) is very unhelpful, just containing a photo of a handwritten family tree, and being mainly obscured by a phone screen capture that doesn't seem to be dismissable. There is a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugQFtw8azhQ) which is just about the most amateurish thing I have ever seem, with background music and what appears to be a radio speech program also playing in the background. (It's also in Dutch, so I don't know what it actually says). (2) I presume that the Gramps project hasn't registered any trademark (can someone confirm that). However, (in UK at least - I don't know about the rest of the EU or the US) it is possible to get protection even for unregistered trademarks by the legal tort of 'passing off'. But as JR points out, that would be expensive. (3) I suggest that someone who can claim to represent Gramps (e.g. one of the names in the sourceforge front page (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/)) write to niApps to ask them to change the name of their app, as they are misleading potential users into thinking that their app is connected with, or implements the FOSS Gramps. The letter should give niApps a deadline to agree to make the change. (4) I suggest that someone who can claim to represent Gramps (e.g. one of the names in the sourceforge front page (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/)) write to Apple to point out that the Stamboom/Gramps app appears to violate 22.2 of the App store review guidelines (https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#legal-requirements) "Apps that contain false, fraudulent or misleading representations" in that it misleadingly represents that the App is connected with, or is, or implements the FOSS Gramps, and at least in the UK there is clear evidence that a cause for a claim of 'passing off' exists. Since JR presumably has some knowledge of/is registered with Apple (not that that would be necessary) maybe he should write (unless we have any legal expertise somewhere?) Regards, Tim. -- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Gramps-on-itunes-tp4671416p4671457.html Sent from the GRAMPS - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
From: Dale B. <dr...@ho...> - 2015-07-06 16:04:34
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Contact the original developer and have him register the name for trademark. He would own the name and the copyright to the original code. This list can use a crowd-funding campaign to fund the trademark registration. Trademark registration in the US requires that the trademark to have been used prior to registration to prove ownership. On 07/06/2015 09:22 AM, Tim Lyons wrote: > John Ralls-2 wrote >> Unfortunately both registering trademarks and lawsuits are expensive. > Quite! > > (1) Does anyone know what this app actually does? I certainly don't want to > support them with my money to download it to find out. The website > (http://niapps.com/index.php/stamboom/) is very unhelpful, just containing a > photo of a handwritten family tree, and being mainly obscured by a phone > screen capture that doesn't seem to be dismissable. There is a video > (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugQFtw8azhQ) which is just about the most > amateurish thing I have ever seem, with background music and what appears to > be a radio speech program also playing in the background. (It's also in > Dutch, so I don't know what it actually says). > > (2) I presume that the Gramps project hasn't registered any trademark (can > someone confirm that). However, (in UK at least - I don't know about the > rest of the EU or the US) it is possible to get protection even for > unregistered trademarks by the legal tort of 'passing off'. But as JR points > out, that would be expensive. > > (3) I suggest that someone who can claim to represent Gramps (e.g. one of > the names in the sourceforge front page > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/)) write to niApps to ask them to > change the name of their app, as they are misleading potential users into > thinking that their app is connected with, or implements the FOSS Gramps. > The letter should give niApps a deadline to agree to make the change. > > (4) I suggest that someone who can claim to represent Gramps (e.g. one of > the names in the sourceforge front page > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/)) write to Apple to point out that > the Stamboom/Gramps app appears to violate 22.2 of the App store review > guidelines > (https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#legal-requirements) > "Apps that contain false, fraudulent or misleading representations" in that > it misleadingly represents that the App is connected with, or is, or > implements the FOSS Gramps, and at least in the UK there is clear evidence > that a cause for a claim of 'passing off' exists. > > Since JR presumably has some knowledge of/is registered with Apple (not that > that would be necessary) maybe he should write (unless we have any legal > expertise somewhere?) > > Regards, > Tim. > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Gramps-on-itunes-tp4671416p4671457.html > Sent from the GRAMPS - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud. > GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that > you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business. > Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today. > https://www.gigenetcloud.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-devel mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel > > |
From: Enno B. <enn...@gm...> - 2015-07-06 19:59:02
|
Op 06-07-15 om 16:22 schreef Tim Lyons: > John Ralls-2 wrote >> Unfortunately both registering trademarks and lawsuits are expensive. > Quite! > > (1) Does anyone know what this app actually does? I certainly don't want to > support them with my money to download it to find out. The website > (http://niapps.com/index.php/stamboom/) is very unhelpful, just containing a > photo of a handwritten family tree, and being mainly obscured by a phone > screen capture that doesn't seem to be dismissable. There is a video > (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugQFtw8azhQ) which is just about the most > amateurish thing I have ever seem, with background music and what appears to > be a radio speech program also playing in the background. (It's also in > Dutch, so I don't know what it actually says). Both site and video can't tell me whether the app does any editing, or that it's just a viewer. The background noise is a Dutch radio program indeed, and I recognize the female presenter's voice. There's an English help page on the site, that mentions GEDCOM and our site. The text suggests that the app can import GEDCOM, but since it doesn't mention any format, nor describes export, I think it's a viewer only, see http://niapps.com/index.php/gramps-gedcom/?lang=en > (3) I suggest that someone who can claim to represent Gramps (e.g. one of > the names in the sourceforge front page > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/)) write to niApps to ask them to > change the name of their app, as they are misleading potential users into > thinking that their app is connected with, or implements the FOSS Gramps. > The letter should give niApps a deadline to agree to make the change. Until now, I haven't seen any email address to write to. I can find the street address where the company is registered, so if anyone wants to send snail mail, I can probably help. > (4) I suggest that someone who can claim to represent Gramps (e.g. one of > the names in the sourceforge front page > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/)) write to Apple to point out that > the Stamboom/Gramps app appears to violate 22.2 of the App store review > guidelines > (https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#legal-requirements) > "Apps that contain false, fraudulent or misleading representations" in that > it misleadingly represents that the App is connected with, or is, or > implements the FOSS Gramps, and at least in the UK there is clear evidence > that a cause for a claim of 'passing off' exists. Thank you for finding that. I looked for a way to report an app, like on Google Play, but I couldn't find that, not even in iTunes. The use of Gramps in this context is clearly misleading, because the app is not Gramps, and the author knows what Gramps is. regards, Enno |