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From: Ethan M. <merritt@u.washington.edu> - 2008-09-22 21:18:29
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I know that the death of usenet has been predicted many times, but at least in my corner of the world it seems to be actually happening. My University dropped its usenet feed at the end of the Summer; my ISP (Comcast) is dropping it as of this week. While it may be possible for me to find a pay-for-service newsfeed elsewhere, expecting our user community to pay for access to support requests seems unreasonable. I realize that delayed access through Google and Gmane may well continue, but I can't be the only one who finds that mechanism painfully slow. So unless I find an alternative quickly, I will disappear from comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot The "Help forum" on the gnuplot SourceForge site has historically been drowing in spam, and seems to be broken completely today. Here's the error I see when trying to access it from the main site: An error occurred while loading http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php Connection to host sourceforge.net is broken. Any ideas how we might move forward to a new user support mechanism? -- Ethan A Merritt |
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From: Hans-Bernhard B. <HBB...@t-...> - 2008-09-22 22:56:21
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Ethan Merritt wrote: > The "Help forum" on the gnuplot SourceForge site has historically > been drowing in spam, and seems to be broken completely today. Works fine here. And I haven't seen Spam on it in quite a while now. The real problem is that it's incredibly inefficient. It's virtually impossible to conduct a useful discussion with such unusable quoting and without any filtering mechanisms. > Here's the error I see when trying to access it from the main site: > > An error occurred while loading http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php > Connection to host sourceforge.net is broken. This happens from time to time. It usually clears by just reloading the page. > Any ideas how we might move forward to a new user support mechanism? Maybe USENET isn't quite as dead as it looks from your current point-of-view. I see no indication of it being terminated by either ISPs or Universities around here. |
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From: <gnu...@t4...> - 2008-09-23 08:42:35
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> I know that the death of usenet has been predicted many times, > but at least in my corner of the world it seems to be actually > happening. > ... > Any ideas how we might move forward to a new user support mechanism? All of my usenet feeds have also died within the last year or two, so I tend to agree. (I also agree all the web usenet interfaces I've seen are lacking.) Usenet requires large amounts of disk space and bandwidth (depending on how well-connected one is), and news daemons are terribly finicky and prone to instability. For the two remaining users (out of several thousand active) taking advantage of the service, it just wasn't worth the upkeep. For asynchronous user support, I like the idea of mailing lists. It is nice, however, to have a more immediate (synchronous) support mechanism available, for which I'd recommend IRC. IRC seems to work reasonably well for a number of other open-source projects. I hung out on #gnuplot on freenode today, and there are a few people in the channel, but not so much as a join or part in several hours. To the extent support is available there, our users apparently don't know it. |
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From: don t. <dt...@to...> - 2008-09-23 16:20:24
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> So unless I find an alternative quickly, I will disappear from > comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot I have had good luck with the free nntp server at news.motzarella.org. You need to register (free) and be issued a password. They have c.g.a.p Don Taber |
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From: Ethan M. <merritt@u.washington.edu> - 2008-09-23 23:41:33
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On Tuesday 23 September 2008 08:53:27 don taber wrote: > > So unless I find an alternative quickly, I will disappear from > > comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot > > I have had good luck with the free nntp server at > news.motzarella.org. You need to register (free) > and be issued a password. They have c.g.a.p Thanks for the pointer! Yeah, that seems to work OK except that I can't persuade it to accept an encrypted connection. Not a big deal. Ethan |
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From: Philipp K. J. <ja...@ie...> - 2008-09-27 00:46:58
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I learned recently that one can subscribe to usenet groups via Google Groups, so that one gets usenet postings via email. I have used Google's web interface to post. I find this a convenient way to keep tab on the (very few) newsgroups I am interested in (including comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot group). That being said, I find it confusing to have a gnuplot users mailing list (gnu...@li...) AND a users newsgroup (comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot). I have also been trapped by confusing the two. It would make sense to settle on only one of the two forms of communication (and visibly shutter the other one down). I would also like to point out that this page: http://www.gnuplot.info/help.html states that the newsgroup is the same as the mailing list, which is NOT TRUE. Once we have clarity on the strategy going forward, we should update the website accordingly. Best, Ph. On Tuesday 23 September 2008 16:41, Ethan Merritt wrote: > On Tuesday 23 September 2008 08:53:27 don taber wrote: > > > So unless I find an alternative quickly, I will disappear from > > > comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot > > > > I have had good luck with the free nntp server at > > news.motzarella.org. You need to register (free) > > and be issued a password. They have c.g.a.p > > Thanks for the pointer! > > Yeah, that seems to work OK except that I can't persuade it > to accept an encrypted connection. Not a big deal. > > Ethan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere > in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > gnuplot-beta mailing list > gnu...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta |
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From: Philipp K. J. <ja...@ie...> - 2008-09-30 01:22:06
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All of this brings me back to my original question: Should there be only a single user-discussion forum (in addition to the devel list), and should this forum be the sourceforge mailiing list gnu...@li...? And should the gnuplot newsgroup be shuttered down? It strikes me as a good idea. Having two forums is confusing and unnecessary. And a mailing list seems to be more accepted these days than usenet. Best, Ph. On Monday 29 September 2008 12:47, you wrote: > Philipp K. Janert wrote: > > I learned recently that one can subscribe to usenet groups > > via Google Groups, so that one gets usenet postings via > > email. I have used Google's web interface to post. > > So have a lot of others. Which only contributes to Google's "success" > as the single biggest source of USENET's problems these days. > > Google groups sucks badly as a posting interface. It's the only system > that ever managed to create even more broken postings than Outlook. > > Gmail accounts have become today's source #1 for USENET spam. > > Reaping Google's adword payouts on Google's own blogspot pages has > become a major motive for USENET spam. > > And last but not least, groups.google.com has so completely clouded the > distinction between actual USENET and their own, Google-only discussion > groups that many people no longer know the difference. > > > That being said, I find it confusing to have a gnuplot > > users mailing list (gnu...@li...) > > AND a users newsgroup (comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot). > > They used to be bidirectionally gatewayed to each other. This died > years ago, when we lost support by Dartmouth.edu. Sourceforge.net > doesn't offer a USENET gateway. |
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From: Ethan M. <merritt@u.washington.edu> - 2008-09-30 19:36:11
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On Monday 29 September 2008 18:21:57 Philipp K. Janert wrote: > > All of this brings me back to my original question: > > Should there be only a single user-discussion > forum (in addition to the devel list), and should > this forum be the sourceforge mailiing list > gnu...@li...? And should > the gnuplot newsgroup be shuttered down? > > It strikes me as a good idea. Having two forums is > confusing and unnecessary. And a mailing list seems > to be more accepted these days than usenet. My observation is that the newsgroup continues to be more active than all of the mailing lists taken together. > > On Monday 29 September 2008 12:47, you wrote: > > Philipp K. Janert wrote: > > > I learned recently that one can subscribe to usenet groups > > > via Google Groups, so that one gets usenet postings via > > > email. I have used Google's web interface to post. > > > > So have a lot of others. Which only contributes to Google's "success" > > as the single biggest source of USENET's problems these days. > > > > Google groups sucks badly as a posting interface. It's the only system > > that ever managed to create even more broken postings than Outlook. > > > > Gmail accounts have become today's source #1 for USENET spam. > > > > Reaping Google's adword payouts on Google's own blogspot pages has > > become a major motive for USENET spam. > > > > And last but not least, groups.google.com has so completely clouded the > > distinction between actual USENET and their own, Google-only discussion > > groups that many people no longer know the difference. > > > > > That being said, I find it confusing to have a gnuplot > > > users mailing list (gnu...@li...) > > > AND a users newsgroup (comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot). > > > > They used to be bidirectionally gatewayed to each other. This died > > years ago, when we lost support by Dartmouth.edu. Sourceforge.net > > doesn't offer a USENET gateway. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > gnuplot-beta mailing list > gnu...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gnuplot-beta > -- Ethan A Merritt Biomolecular Structure Center University of Washington, Seattle 98195-7742 |
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From: Hans-Bernhard B. <HBB...@t-...> - 2008-09-30 22:34:04
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Philipp K. Janert wrote: > And should the gnuplot newsgroup be shuttered down? It's not up to us to decide about the fate of the newsgroup. We couldn't shut it down even if we wanted to. |
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From: Hans-Bernhard B. <HBB...@t-...> - 2008-09-29 19:47:28
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Philipp K. Janert wrote: > I learned recently that one can subscribe to usenet groups > via Google Groups, so that one gets usenet postings via > email. I have used Google's web interface to post. So have a lot of others. Which only contributes to Google's "success" as the single biggest source of USENET's problems these days. Google groups sucks badly as a posting interface. It's the only system that ever managed to create even more broken postings than Outlook. Gmail accounts have become today's source #1 for USENET spam. Reaping Google's adword payouts on Google's own blogspot pages has become a major motive for USENET spam. And last but not least, groups.google.com has so completely clouded the distinction between actual USENET and their own, Google-only discussion groups that many people no longer know the difference. > That being said, I find it confusing to have a gnuplot > users mailing list (gnu...@li...) > AND a users newsgroup (comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot). They used to be bidirectionally gatewayed to each other. This died years ago, when we lost support by Dartmouth.edu. Sourceforge.net doesn't offer a USENET gateway. |
