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From: Brian H. <bri...@py...> - 2002-02-12 02:57:28
|
Oh, hey, that sounds familiar! =) Can you post that code, by any chance? I'm actually working on a game for infants/toddlers that needs to have "button mash" mode enabled, i.e. they have to be able to hit ANYTHING except ctrl-alt-delete. The Win key completely screws up this kind of "game". A code snippet to disable all keys on all Windows variants would actually be something very useful for the archives. > hey! > WIN_DisableAltTab and WIN_EnableAltTab do all the job. You > used SystemParametersInfo with SPI_SCREENSAVERRUNNING on > win9x and RegisterHotKey on winnt, I've just tested that and > seems to work fine. |
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From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2002-02-12 02:50:30
|
In article <002c01c1b36b$7cee2920$7f55533e@aurora>,
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignacio_Casta=F1o?= <cas...@ya...> writes:
> Ok, I got rid of alt+tab, ctrl+esc, and alt+esc key combinations, but the
> user is still able to switch the task just by pressing any windows keys.
> Does somebody know how to disable them?
Please tell me what title you're working on so I know to recommend
people to stay away from it. I can't stand games that try to disable
functionality that I -expect- to work on my PC. This philosophy is
the same one that gives us all those "NetMeeting disabled D3D"
problems.
--
Ask me about my upcoming book on Direct3D from Addison-Wesley!
Direct3D Book <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Don't Support Spammers! Boycott Fractal Painter 7!
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/spammers.html>
|
|
From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2002-02-12 02:49:34
|
In article <002401c1b36a$7614e270$0101a8c0@HOOKDELL220>,
Brian Hook <bri...@py...> writes:
> In a fullscreen game, you're not alt-tabbing away.
Yes, I am.
--
Ask me about my upcoming book on Direct3D from Addison-Wesley!
Direct3D Book <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Don't Support Spammers! Boycott Fractal Painter 7!
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/spammers.html>
|
|
From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2002-02-12 02:49:12
|
In article <001c01c1b368$4aab5e40$7f55533e@aurora>,
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignacio_Casta=F1o?= <cas...@ya...> writes:
> Hmm... I just want to disable Alt+tab and other task switching keys,
Windows is not a Console system. You don't own the OS, the user owns
the OS. Just deal with task switching and don't bother coding all
kinds of buggy OS version code. If the user wants to task switch away
from your application, who are you to defy the user?
--
Ask me about my upcoming book on Direct3D from Addison-Wesley!
Direct3D Book <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Don't Support Spammers! Boycott Fractal Painter 7!
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/spammers.html>
|
|
From: <cas...@ya...> - 2002-02-12 02:35:34
|
Jon Watte wrote: > I really hate it when I can't tab out to check a web page or something. > EverQuest just made it impossible to lose focus. In camelot, it's possible > to lose focus (say, if Outlook is being helpful and reminding you about > something) but when you try to get back in, you just get a "lost surface" > error message and it shuts down. > Even playing UT or Q3 I might want to do this -- especially when waiting > to respawn :-) I agree with you, however some ogl drivers go mad when task switching, and others work fine, I will have to doublecheck that but in other mailing list ;-) Anyway shuting down and restoring, as Brian Sharon mentioned should always be safe, and I still prefer a menu option or a customized key to do that, than an easy combination like alt+tab that you can mis press while playing. Ignacio Castaño ca...@as... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com |
|
From: <cas...@ya...> - 2002-02-12 02:35:06
|
Jon Watte wrote: > I really hate it when I can't tab out to check a web page or something. > EverQuest just made it impossible to lose focus. In camelot, it's possible > to lose focus (say, if Outlook is being helpful and reminding you about > something) but when you try to get back in, you just get a "lost surface" > error message and it shuts down. > Even playing UT or Q3 I might want to do this -- especially when waiting > to respawn :-) I agree with you, however some ogl drivers go mad when task switching, and others work fine, I will have to doublecheck that but in other mailing list ;-) Anyway shuting down and restoring, as Brian Sharon mentioned should always be safe, and I still prefer a menu option or a customized key to do that, than an easy combination like alt+tab that you can mis press while playing. Ignacio Castaño ca...@as... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com |
|
From: <cas...@ya...> - 2002-02-12 02:34:41
|
Brian Hook wrote: > Something to do with setting the screensaver system property. I > actually wrote that code in Q2, but that was a long ass time ago. hey! WIN_DisableAltTab and WIN_EnableAltTab do all the job. You used SystemParametersInfo with SPI_SCREENSAVERRUNNING on win9x and RegisterHotKey on winnt, I've just tested that and seems to work fine. Ignacio Castaño ca...@as... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com |
|
From: Philip T. <pt...@mi...> - 2002-02-12 02:23:51
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> -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:11 PM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: RE: [GD-Windows] os version >=20 >=20 > > The official stance is you can't disable it, so don't even=20 > > try. Unofficially, I know you can block it in some cases,=20 > > but I still don't think you can disable it in all cases on=20 > > 2000/XP. >=20 > Something to do with setting the screensaver system property. I > actually wrote that code in Q2, but that was a long ass time ago. >=20 > > And your users don't really want you to disable it=20 > > anyway. >=20 > Yes, they do -- when they remap left alt to strafe left and "tab" to > switch weapons, it gets old. Quickly. >=20 > In a fullscreen game, you're not alt-tabbing away. Also, I was under > the impression that D3D exclusive mode disabled alt-tab? no, the D3D runtime does not disable alt-tab when in fullscreen. >=20 > Brian >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-windows mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D555 >=20 |
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From: Jon W. <hp...@mi...> - 2002-02-12 02:17:06
|
I really hate it when I can't tab out to check a web page or something. EverQuest just made it impossible to lose focus. In camelot, it's possible to lose focus (say, if Outlook is being helpful and reminding you about something) but when you try to get back in, you just get a "lost surface" error message and it shuts down. Even playing UT or Q3 I might want to do this -- especially when waiting to respawn :-) Getting switch-out to work is not so very hard -- I really think any Windows program (game or not) should support it. If the user wants to alt-tab to strafe/select then provide an optional check-box to disable switching. Cheers, / h+ > -----Original Message----- > From: gam...@li... > [mailto:gam...@li...]On Behalf Of > Brian Hook > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:11 PM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: RE: [GD-Windows] os version > > > > The official stance is you can't disable it, so don't even > > try. Unofficially, I know you can block it in some cases, > > but I still don't think you can disable it in all cases on > > 2000/XP. > > Something to do with setting the screensaver system property. I > actually wrote that code in Q2, but that was a long ass time ago. > > > And your users don't really want you to disable it > > anyway. > > Yes, they do -- when they remap left alt to strafe left and "tab" to > switch weapons, it gets old. Quickly. > > In a fullscreen game, you're not alt-tabbing away. Also, I was under > the impression that D3D exclusive mode disabled alt-tab? > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-windows mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=555 > |
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From: Tom H. <to...@3d...> - 2002-02-12 02:15:48
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At 06:04 PM 2/11/2002, Brian Sharon wrote: >The official stance is you can't disable it, so don't even >try. Unofficially, I know you can block it in some cases, but I still >don't think you can disable it in all cases on 2000/XP. And your users >don't really want you to disable it anyway. They want you to deactivate >the windows key so they don't hit that in a game, but people like to be >able to alt-tab away if they need to. Correct. Don't disable these things, but make your game handle them properly. Everquest (for example) goes to great lengths to prevent you from tabbing out because they don't want you to be able to run things like SoftIce, but the end result is that if you hit the Windows key on 2k (something you _can't_ block) or some other window like AIM or ICQ pops up in front then the game crashes. >Possibly Quake tears down everything when it loses focus - releases all >textures and shuts down GL - and then starts everything back up when it >gets focus back. That seems like a safe approach, at least. When you're in full screen and lose focus the "right" thing to do is restore the display mode and minimize the app. Doing this screws up your context so you have to release all the textures and any AGP/Vidmem vertex buffers and recreate them when you restore the context. It isn't pleasant, but it's the only thing you can do and still get reliable behavior. Tom |
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From: <cas...@ya...> - 2002-02-12 02:11:12
|
Ok, I got rid of alt+tab, ctrl+esc, and alt+esc key combinations, but the user is still able to switch the task just by pressing any windows keys. Does somebody know how to disable them? DirectInput is supposed to do that when setting exclusive mode with DISCL_EXCLUSIVE or DISCL_NOWINKEY, but that always fails. Thanks in advance, Ignacio Castaño ca...@as... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com |
|
From: Brian H. <bri...@py...> - 2002-02-12 02:10:40
|
> The official stance is you can't disable it, so don't even > try. Unofficially, I know you can block it in some cases, > but I still don't think you can disable it in all cases on > 2000/XP. Something to do with setting the screensaver system property. I actually wrote that code in Q2, but that was a long ass time ago. > And your users don't really want you to disable it > anyway. Yes, they do -- when they remap left alt to strafe left and "tab" to switch weapons, it gets old. Quickly. In a fullscreen game, you're not alt-tabbing away. Also, I was under the impression that D3D exclusive mode disabled alt-tab? Brian |
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From: Brian S. <bs...@mi...> - 2002-02-12 02:04:54
|
The official stance is you can't disable it, so don't even try. = Unofficially, I know you can block it in some cases, but I still don't = think you can disable it in all cases on 2000/XP. And your users don't = really want you to disable it anyway. They want you to deactivate the = windows key so they don't hit that in a game, but people like to be able = to alt-tab away if they need to. Possibly Quake tears down everything when it loses focus - releases all = textures and shuts down GL - and then starts everything back up when it = gets focus back. That seems like a safe approach, at least. =20 They released the source to Quake 1, so you could look there... http://www.idsoftware.com/archives/sourcearc.html --brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Ignacio Casta=F1o [mailto:cas...@ya...] > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 5:55 PM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] os version >=20 > Brian Sharon wrote: > > GetVersionEx(). > > > > Obligatory warning: You should ask yourself why you're looking for = this > > information. Logging the info to a file is fine. Making = assumptions > based > > on the installed version of the OS is really bad, and will break = later. > > Remember how all those games that should have worked with Windows = 2000 > > didn't, because people checked for (NT =3D=3D true) instead of just = seeing > if > > they could create their Direct3D devices? >=20 > Hmm... I just want to disable Alt+tab and other task switching keys, > according to the msdn there are three different methods depending on = the > windows version. Task switching is broken with some opengl drivers and = we > want to disable it if possible. Is there any other method that works = on > multiple windows versions? Quake3 and derivates seem to handle that > without > problems... |
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From: <cas...@ya...> - 2002-02-12 01:48:18
|
Brian Sharon wrote: > GetVersionEx(). > > Obligatory warning: You should ask yourself why you're looking for this > information. Logging the info to a file is fine. Making assumptions based > on the installed version of the OS is really bad, and will break later. > Remember how all those games that should have worked with Windows 2000 > didn't, because people checked for (NT == true) instead of just seeing if > they could create their Direct3D devices? Hmm... I just want to disable Alt+tab and other task switching keys, according to the msdn there are three different methods depending on the windows version. Task switching is broken with some opengl drivers and we want to disable it if possible. Is there any other method that works on multiple windows versions? Quake3 and derivates seem to handle that without problems... Ignacio Castaño ca...@as... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com |
|
From: Nathan R. <Nat...@te...> - 2002-02-12 01:44:58
|
Use GetVersionEx() The szCSDVersion member will tell you what service pack, OSR, etc. A = search on MSDN should be able to tell you the rest of what you need to know. -----Original Message----- From: Ignacio Casta=F1o [mailto:cas...@ya...] Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 7:36 PM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-Windows] os version Hi, I want to obtain the windows version my app is running on. I just want = to distinguish between win9x, nt4 sp2 or previous, and nt4 sp3 or win2k = and next. Could somebody point out how to do that? Thanks in advance, Ignacio Casta=F1o ca...@as... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-windows mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D555 |
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From: Brian S. <bs...@mi...> - 2002-02-12 01:43:17
|
GetVersionEx(). Obligatory warning: You should ask yourself why you're looking for this = information. Logging the info to a file is fine. Making assumptions = based on the installed version of the OS is really bad, and will break = later. Remember how all those games that should have worked with = Windows 2000 didn't, because people checked for (NT =3D=3D true) instead = of just seeing if they could create their Direct3D devices? --brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Ignacio Casta=F1o [mailto:cas...@ya...] > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 5:36 PM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: [GD-Windows] os version >=20 > Hi, > I want to obtain the windows version my app is running on. I just want = to > distinguish between win9x, nt4 sp2 or previous, and nt4 sp3 or win2k = and > next. Could somebody point out how to do that? >=20 > Thanks in advance, >=20 > Ignacio Casta=F1o > ca...@as... |
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From: <cas...@ya...> - 2002-02-12 01:28:58
|
Hi, I want to obtain the windows version my app is running on. I just want to distinguish between win9x, nt4 sp2 or previous, and nt4 sp3 or win2k and next. Could somebody point out how to do that? Thanks in advance, Ignacio Castaño ca...@as... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com |
|
From: Tom F. <to...@mu...> - 2002-02-11 10:45:06
|
And the matrices are the other way up. Except they're not. :-) The matrices in OpenGL and D3D are notionally different - one does matrix*columnvector, the other does rowvector*matrix (IIRC), which means that the matrices used are the transpose of each other. Except that as well as the notation being different, the actual order the values are stored in memory is different. So in one a row is stored as four consecutive floats, in the other a _column_ is stored as consecutive floats. These two effects cancel each other out, with the result that a given sixteen floats in memory is correct for both systems, even if the actual names the components are given is different. Yeah, just keep the world matrix at identity and all is fine. Tom Forsyth - Muckyfoot bloke. What's he up to now (and can I have a go)? http://www.eidosinteractive.com/downloads/search.html?gmid=86 > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > Sent: 09 February 2002 04:34 > To: gam...@li... > Subject: RE: [GD-Windows] From OGL To D3D > > > They also differ in handedness. And the extra world matrix > in D3D adds > some complication (potentially -- I just keep it at identity). > > Brian > > At 10:30 PM 2/8/2002 -0600, Paul Bleisch wrote: > > >OpenGL uses -1 < w < 1 for the clip space, while D3D > >uses 0 < w < 1 which for practical purposes means you > >have to scale (or divide) by two in some places to get > >exact visual similarity. I don't remember the details > >either, but I think that was the biggest problem. > > > >Paul > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:00 AM > > > To: gam...@li... > > > Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] From OGL To D3D > > > > > > > > > At 11:49 AM 2/8/2002 -0500, Dave Smith wrote: > > > >Before I embark on this great quest of porting some of my > > > code from OGL > > > >to D3D, I would like to know if there are any good sites > > > that discuss > > > >this issue. > > > > > > No sites, unfortunately, at least that I'm aware of. > > > > > > If you're targeting DX8, then the transition should be > fairly smooth > > > (depending on how much OGL you were using). Most of the > > > state stuff has > > > direct analogs. Probably the biggest area of confusion for > > > me was making > > > sure my matrices were matching correctly. I don't > remember the exact > > > details, but it took some trial and error before I figured > > > out how to map > > > an OpenGL projection matrix to the D3D one. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gamedevlists-windows mailing list > > > Gam...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows > > > Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=555 > > > >_______________________________________________ >Gamedevlists-windows mailing list >Gam...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows >Archives: >http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU5 _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-windows mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=555 |
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From: Brian H. <bri...@py...> - 2002-02-09 04:34:13
|
They also differ in handedness. And the extra world matrix in D3D adds some complication (potentially -- I just keep it at identity). Brian At 10:30 PM 2/8/2002 -0600, Paul Bleisch wrote: >OpenGL uses -1 < w < 1 for the clip space, while D3D >uses 0 < w < 1 which for practical purposes means you >have to scale (or divide) by two in some places to get >exact visual similarity. I don't remember the details >either, but I think that was the biggest problem. > >Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:00 AM > > To: gam...@li... > > Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] From OGL To D3D > > > > > > At 11:49 AM 2/8/2002 -0500, Dave Smith wrote: > > >Before I embark on this great quest of porting some of my > > code from OGL > > >to D3D, I would like to know if there are any good sites > > that discuss > > >this issue. > > > > No sites, unfortunately, at least that I'm aware of. > > > > If you're targeting DX8, then the transition should be fairly smooth > > (depending on how much OGL you were using). Most of the > > state stuff has > > direct analogs. Probably the biggest area of confusion for > > me was making > > sure my matrices were matching correctly. I don't remember the exact > > details, but it took some trial and error before I figured > > out how to map > > an OpenGL projection matrix to the D3D one. > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gamedevlists-windows mailing list > > Gam...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows > > Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=555 > > > >_______________________________________________ >Gamedevlists-windows mailing list >Gam...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows >Archives: >http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU5 |
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From: Paul B. <pa...@mi...> - 2002-02-09 04:30:38
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OpenGL uses -1 < w < 1 for the clip space, while D3D=20 uses 0 < w < 1 which for practical purposes means you have to scale (or divide) by two in some places to get exact visual similarity. I don't remember the details either, but I think that was the biggest problem. Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...]=20 > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:00 AM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: Re: [GD-Windows] From OGL To D3D >=20 >=20 > At 11:49 AM 2/8/2002 -0500, Dave Smith wrote: > >Before I embark on this great quest of porting some of my=20 > code from OGL=20 > >to D3D, I would like to know if there are any good sites=20 > that discuss=20 > >this issue. >=20 > No sites, unfortunately, at least that I'm aware of. >=20 > If you're targeting DX8, then the transition should be fairly smooth=20 > (depending on how much OGL you were using). Most of the=20 > state stuff has=20 > direct analogs. Probably the biggest area of confusion for=20 > me was making=20 > sure my matrices were matching correctly. I don't remember the exact=20 > details, but it took some trial and error before I figured=20 > out how to map=20 > an OpenGL projection matrix to the D3D one. >=20 > Brian >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-windows mailing list=20 > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows > Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D555 >=20 |
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From: Brian H. <bri...@py...> - 2002-02-09 02:54:46
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At 11:49 AM 2/8/2002 -0500, Dave Smith wrote: >Before I embark on this great quest of porting some of my code >from OGL to D3D, I would like to know if there are any good >sites that discuss this issue. No sites, unfortunately, at least that I'm aware of. If you're targeting DX8, then the transition should be fairly smooth (depending on how much OGL you were using). Most of the state stuff has direct analogs. Probably the biggest area of confusion for me was making sure my matrices were matching correctly. I don't remember the exact details, but it took some trial and error before I figured out how to map an OpenGL projection matrix to the D3D one. Brian |
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From: Rich <leg...@xm...> - 2002-02-08 18:29:27
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In article <3C6...@sd...>,
Dave Smith <dav...@sd...> writes:
> Before I embark on this great quest of porting some of my code
> from OGL to D3D, I would like to know if there are any good
> sites that discuss this issue.
Its not a porting guide, but perhaps this will help?
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/d3d-vs-opengl.html>
--
Ask me about my upcoming book on Direct3D from Addison-Wesley!
Direct3D Book <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/>
Don't Support Spammers! Boycott Fractal Painter 7!
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/spammers.html>
|
|
From: Dave S. <dav...@sd...> - 2002-02-08 16:49:36
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Before I embark on this great quest of porting some of my code from OGL to D3D, I would like to know if there are any good sites that discuss this issue. I tried googling it, but I end up in holy war debates. That's not what I'm interested in. I just want to know of tricks, traps, and other migration issues to watch out for to help me on my journey. Also, it could help me better design some of my code. Thanks in advance, -DaveS |
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From: <cas...@ya...> - 2002-02-08 00:18:19
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Hey, that worked fine!
but with pt.y instead of pt.x ;-)
Ignacio Castaño
ca...@as...
Brian Hook wrote:
Look at WM_NCMOUSEMOVE and if it enters your title area, show the
cursor?
case WM_NCMOUSEMOVE:
{
POINTS pts = MAKEPOINTS( lParam );
ev.evType = HEvent::ET_MOUSEMOVE;
POINT pt = { pts.x, pts.y };
ScreenToClient( hWnd, &pt );
if ( pt.x < 0 ) ShowCursor( TRUE ); file://or something like
that
}
break;
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From: Nathan R. <Nat...@te...> - 2002-02-08 00:06:41
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You can do this with the WM_NCHITTEST message. DefWindowProc will = return HTCAPTION when it handles this message over the title bar. Take a look at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/winui/mousinpt_7ik4.asp for = some more flags. -----Original Message----- From: Ignacio Casta=F1o [mailto:cas...@ya...] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:47 PM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-Windows] cursor over titlebar Hi, I hide the mouse cursor using ShowCursor(0) when my app is activated, = so that the cursor doesn't appear over the window. However, I would like = to show it when it's over the titlebar, to allow the user to move the = window. Any hints would be appreciated! Ignacio Casta=F1o ca...@as... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-windows mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-windows Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D555 |
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