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From: Brian S. <bs...@mi...> - 2002-06-25 17:29:26
|
for open source font rendering check out http://www.freetype.org/ for flash check out http://www.openswf.org/ --brian > -----Original Message----- > From: brian hook [mailto:bri...@py...]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:05 AM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: RE: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics >=20 >=20 > > What about using a vector format for the graphics as apposed to a=20 > bitmap > > format ? >=20 > That's what I was thinking with the "render everything yourself"=20 > option (i.e. use circle, line, spline, etc. primitives and=20 > render into=20 > a bitmap yourself). This isn't that bad, I suppose, but it does seem=20 > to be a bit of extra work. >=20 > > I've never tried this, but WMFs for example are very well=20 >=20 > Er, what's a WMF? >=20 > > For fonts just use proper ttf. >=20 > Is there a good open source library that can rasterize a TTF into a=20 > bitmap? I know of SDL_ttf, but I'm not sure how good it is. >=20 > > If you insist on bitmap graphics >=20 > Well, there is that whole "texture maps are handy" bit ;) >=20 > -Hook |
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From: brian h. <bri...@py...> - 2002-06-25 16:09:50
|
> Note: you don't have to render into a bitmap -- you could render > directly using OpenGL/D3D. Dunno if you're already assuming a 3D API > though. Did you mean glLine/glPoint calls? > FreeType (http://www.freetype.org) makes high quality output; it's > what XFree86 uses these days. Cool, I'll check it out, thanks. I use that one would need a freely redistributable TTF fonts (are the Windows ones in the free and clear? I doubt it). -Hook |
|
From: brian h. <bri...@py...> - 2002-06-25 16:06:36
|
> Depends what you mean by "usable space". I would assert that for a game, you > want everyone to have the same usable space as everyone else, regardless of > resolution, i.e. they have the same field of view, etc. Otherwise > multiplayer games are unfair, and/or it will be hard to balance the > single-player game. There's a difference between convenience and difficulty. I agree that the game should be equally viable in 640x480 and 1600x1200, however there are some things that make a game more pleasing to play that might be available if you have more room in the interface. The obvious example are chat windows in a multiplayer game. They might give you a slight competitive advantage, but the real advantage is that you don't have a clutter of overlapping chat windows while you're trying to talk to your mates in the guild, in the store, and a couple private conversations at once. -Hook |
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From: Thatcher U. <tu...@tu...> - 2002-06-25 16:00:20
|
On Jun 25, 2002 at 10:04 -0500, brian hook wrote: > > What about using a vector format for the graphics as apposed to a > > bitmap format ? > > That's what I was thinking with the "render everything yourself" > option (i.e. use circle, line, spline, etc. primitives and render into > a bitmap yourself). This isn't that bad, I suppose, but it does seem > to be a bit of extra work. Note: you don't have to render into a bitmap -- you could render directly using OpenGL/D3D. Dunno if you're already assuming a 3D API though. > Is there a good open source library that can rasterize a TTF into a > bitmap? I know of SDL_ttf, but I'm not sure how good it is. FreeType (http://www.freetype.org) makes high quality output; it's what XFree86 uses these days. I bet it's what SDL_ttf uses, but I'm not sure. -- Thatcher Ulrich http://tulrich.com |
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From: Tom F. <to...@mu...> - 2002-06-25 15:19:47
|
Depends what you mean by "usable space". I would assert that for a game, you want everyone to have the same usable space as everyone else, regardless of resolution, i.e. they have the same field of view, etc. Otherwise multiplayer games are unfair, and/or it will be hard to balance the single-player game. If the game is hard to play in 640x480, then that's not friendly to the lower-end of the market. If it's easier to play in high resolutions, then you're not going to entertain the hard-core. If there's no difference in gameplay, then - er - what did you need the usable space for again? (I'm not explaining this very clearly - sorry). So higher res should really only mean the game looks better, it shouldn't change anything about how it plays. In StarTopia, we dodged the bullet by only allowing one window open at a time (er... except for a bug we found post-ship), and everything fitted on a 640x480 screen, so greater screen space didn't help at all. Which meant we didn't bother scaling in the end (though we did think about it). We did still get complaints that the text was too small to read in the higher resolutions, so we probably should have put scaling in. Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. This email is the product of your deranged imagination, and does not in any way imply existence of the author. > -----Original Message----- > From: brian hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > Sent: 25 June 2002 16:10 > To: gam...@li... > Subject: RE: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics > > > > > > My favourite solution is to scale, but only by powers of > two. So you > design > > GUI graphics for 640x480. For 800x600 and 1024x768, you > don't scale, > you > > just move them further apart (i.e. the bits stick to the > cornr, edge > or > > centre as required). For 1280x1024 and above, you double > the size so > that at > > least stuff is readable. > > Doesn't this have the rather unintuitive property that usable space > actually drops every N resolutions? So you have more usable space at > 1024x768 than at 1280x1024? Or is that under "acceptable > compromise"? > =) > > -Hook > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Sponsored by: > ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > |
|
From: Gareth L. <GL...@cl...> - 2002-06-25 15:16:11
|
> > I've never tried this, but WMFs for example are very well > Er, what's a WMF? WMFs are Window Meta Files or something like that, you have WMF files if you installed the graphics stuff that comes with MSDEV. You will find info at http://www.wotsit.org and in MSDN (OleLoadPicture is a good place to start) > > For fonts just use proper ttf. > Is there a good open source library that can rasterize a TTF into a > bitmap? I know of SDL_ttf, but I'm not sure how good it is. There is lots of ttf stuff, at the least you can just use GDI to rasterize the alphabet to a surface and use that for font stuff. RTFM about GetCharABCWidths() and DrawText() to do proper mapping. We use this stuff to create our bitmapped fonts, and it allows us to get the correct kerning(sp?) and stuff for all letters, so our bitmapped fonts look as good as ttfs do in windows. > > If you insist on bitmap graphics > Well, there is that whole "texture maps are handy" bit ;) Well I never said you wouldn't have bitmaps at the _END_ (i.e. before you draw) I meant pre-made bitmap graphics. ___________________ Regards, Gareth Lewin |
|
From: brian h. <bri...@py...> - 2002-06-25 15:09:40
|
> My favourite solution is to scale, but only by powers of two. So you design > GUI graphics for 640x480. For 800x600 and 1024x768, you don't scale, you > just move them further apart (i.e. the bits stick to the cornr, edge or > centre as required). For 1280x1024 and above, you double the size so that at > least stuff is readable. Doesn't this have the rather unintuitive property that usable space actually drops every N resolutions? So you have more usable space at 1024x768 than at 1280x1024? Or is that under "acceptable compromise"? =) -Hook |
|
From: brian h. <bri...@py...> - 2002-06-25 15:04:59
|
> What about using a vector format for the graphics as apposed to a bitmap > format ? That's what I was thinking with the "render everything yourself" option (i.e. use circle, line, spline, etc. primitives and render into a bitmap yourself). This isn't that bad, I suppose, but it does seem to be a bit of extra work. > I've never tried this, but WMFs for example are very well Er, what's a WMF? > For fonts just use proper ttf. Is there a good open source library that can rasterize a TTF into a bitmap? I know of SDL_ttf, but I'm not sure how good it is. > If you insist on bitmap graphics Well, there is that whole "texture maps are handy" bit ;) -Hook |
|
From: Gareth L. <GL...@cl...> - 2002-06-25 14:20:34
|
Interesting idea. Any pointers to where to start looking ? We are doing an xbox game, so we can't just link to flash or stuff like that. What about the legality issues ? -----Original Message----- From: Tom Forsyth [mailto:to...@mu...] Sent: 25 June 2002 14:56 To: gam...@li... Subject: RE: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics The other cute trick I've heard of is to bite the bullet and put Flash in the game. Then the artists can do front ends and GUIs all they like, and the graphics coders don't have to be involved at all, so we can get on with the actual 3D stuff. Which appeals to me, seeing as the last fancy GUI we did chewed 6 months of a programmer's time. That was bad. Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. This email is the product of your deranged imagination, and does not in any way imply existence of the author. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Quirk [mailto:ken...@co...] > Sent: 25 June 2002 14:59 > To: Tom Forsyth > Cc: Brian Hook; gam...@li... > Subject: Re: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics > > > We just built a skinnable GUI for a game we're doing. All the graphics > in the game are built from individual components at load time, with > the layout described in an XML file. We haven't supported any form of > scaling, as it's my experience that scaling always looks like hell. > But we do support tiling, so what we do is build a background texture > that's seamlessly tileable, and lay that down first. Then we place > interface elements on top of that. > > It let me use mixed file formats (highly compressed jpgs for the > background, GIFs for basic interface elements, and PNGs where I needed > transparency), and in addition to increased flexibility, we took about > 1.5 meg of interface graphics and compressed it to less than 300K. > > Kent > > > Tuesday, June 25, 2002, 6:19:55 AM, you wrote: > > TF> My favourite solution is to scale, but only by powers of > two. So you design > TF> GUI graphics for 640x480. For 800x600 and 1024x768, you > don't scale, you > TF> just move them further apart (i.e. the bits stick to the > cornr, edge or > TF> centre as required). For 1280x1024 and above, you double > the size so that at > TF> least stuff is readable. > > TF> To do the scale x2 you can either just do the bilinear > filter thing (which > TF> doesn't look too bad on power-of-two scales), or just get > the artists to do > TF> second versions. Or mix'n'match (e.g. hand-done bigger > font, but scaled > TF> backgrounds). > > TF> Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. > > TF> This email is the product of your deranged imagination, > TF> and does not in any way imply existence of the author. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > >> Sent: 25 June 2002 04:23 > >> To: gam...@li... > >> Subject: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics > >> > >> > >> Okay, this is a common problem that I'm sure others have > >> dealt with on > >> numerous occasions, but I have yet to deal with it so I'm > >> curious what the > >> conventional wisdom is. > >> > >> Basically it's the age old problem of having an interface > >> that looks good > >> at all resolutions. AFAICT, the standards are: > >> > >> - do low res graphics for everything, then zoom appropriately > >> (leads to > >> serious blurring) > >> > >> - do multiple resolution graphics (lots of content) > >> > >> - render GUI graphics into textures/images instead of using > >> prefab images > >> (i.e. actually write line/circle/filled region software renderers) > >> > >> - don't scale, just make everything smaller (8x8 font at > >> 1600x1200...ewwww) > >> > >> Anyone find a solution that doesn't have a glaring flaw, > unlike the > >> above? I suppose the closest I can think of is to do > >> everything in high > >> resolution, e.g. for a 1600x1200 interface, and then resample > >> down for > >> lower resolution displays. > >> > >> Brian > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> Sponsored by: > >> ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Gamedevlists-general mailing list > >> Gam...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > >> Archives: > >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > >> > > > TF> ------------------------------------------------------- > TF> Sponsored by: > TF> ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > TF> _______________________________________________ > TF> Gamedevlists-general mailing list > TF> Gam...@li... > TF> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > TF> Archives: > TF> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > > > -- > Kent Quirk, CTO, CogniToy > ken...@co... > http://www.cognitoy.com > ------------------------------------------------------- Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 |
|
From: Mickael P. <mpo...@ed...> - 2002-06-25 14:16:59
|
> The other cute trick I've heard of is to bite the bullet and put Flash in
> the game. Then the artists can do front ends and GUIs all they like, and
the
> graphics coders don't have to be involved at all, so we can get on with
the
> actual 3D stuff. Which appeals to me, seeing as the last fancy GUI we did
> chewed 6 months of a programmer's time. That was bad.
Actually it's the solution retained for V-Rally 3 on the PlayStation 2.
All the interface has been crafted by artists, and the PlayStation
try to display it in real time :))
It's pretty slow, but well, if it's for settings in a racing game,
the amount of flexibilty/interactivity it offers worth the cpu time.
Just not a good idea at all for front-end display during driving
sessions...
Mickael Pointier
|
|
From: Paul B. <pa...@mi...> - 2002-06-25 14:10:44
|
We evaluated Flash for our gui/frontend. The runtime (we looked at an off the shelf flash renderer) was a=20 bit heavyweight for what we wanted, but one of the=20 guys here has an almost functional SVG renderer that=20 we might use in the future. =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Forsyth [mailto:to...@mu...]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:56 AM > To: gam...@li... > Subject: RE: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics >=20 >=20 > The other cute trick I've heard of is to bite the bullet and=20 > put Flash in the game. Then the artists can do front ends and=20 > GUIs all they like, and the graphics coders don't have to be=20 > involved at all, so we can get on with the actual 3D stuff.=20 > Which appeals to me, seeing as the last fancy GUI we did=20 > chewed 6 months of a programmer's time. That was bad. >=20 > Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. >=20 > This email is the product of your deranged imagination, > and does not in any way imply existence of the author. >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kent Quirk [mailto:ken...@co...] > > Sent: 25 June 2002 14:59 > > To: Tom Forsyth > > Cc: Brian Hook; gam...@li... > > Subject: Re: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics > >=20 > >=20 > > We just built a skinnable GUI for a game we're doing. All=20 > the graphics=20 > > in the game are built from individual components at load time, with=20 > > the layout described in an XML file. We haven't supported=20 > any form of=20 > > scaling, as it's my experience that scaling always looks like hell.=20 > > But we do support tiling, so what we do is build a=20 > background texture=20 > > that's seamlessly tileable, and lay that down first. Then we place=20 > > interface elements on top of that. > >=20 > > It let me use mixed file formats (highly compressed jpgs for the=20 > > background, GIFs for basic interface elements, and PNGs=20 > where I needed=20 > > transparency), and in addition to increased flexibility, we=20 > took about=20 > > 1.5 meg of interface graphics and compressed it to less than 300K. > >=20 > > Kent > >=20 > >=20 > > Tuesday, June 25, 2002, 6:19:55 AM, you wrote: > >=20 > > TF> My favourite solution is to scale, but only by powers of > > two. So you design > > TF> GUI graphics for 640x480. For 800x600 and 1024x768, you > > don't scale, you > > TF> just move them further apart (i.e. the bits stick to the > > cornr, edge or > > TF> centre as required). For 1280x1024 and above, you double > > the size so that at > > TF> least stuff is readable. > >=20 > > TF> To do the scale x2 you can either just do the bilinear > > filter thing (which > > TF> doesn't look too bad on power-of-two scales), or just get > > the artists to do > > TF> second versions. Or mix'n'match (e.g. hand-done bigger > > font, but scaled > > TF> backgrounds). > >=20 > > TF> Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. > >=20 > > TF> This email is the product of your deranged imagination,=20 > and does=20 > > TF> not in any way imply existence of the author. > >=20 > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > > >> Sent: 25 June 2002 04:23 > > >> To: gam...@li... > > >> Subject: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics > > >>=20 > > >>=20 > > >> Okay, this is a common problem that I'm sure others have > > >> dealt with on=20 > > >> numerous occasions, but I have yet to deal with it so I'm=20 > > >> curious what the=20 > > >> conventional wisdom is. > > >>=20 > > >> Basically it's the age old problem of having an interface > > >> that looks good=20 > > >> at all resolutions. AFAICT, the standards are: > > >>=20 > > >> - do low res graphics for everything, then zoom appropriately > > >> (leads to=20 > > >> serious blurring) > > >>=20 > > >> - do multiple resolution graphics (lots of content) > > >>=20 > > >> - render GUI graphics into textures/images instead of using > > >> prefab images=20 > > >> (i.e. actually write line/circle/filled region software=20 > renderers) > > >>=20 > > >> - don't scale, just make everything smaller (8x8 font at > > >> 1600x1200...ewwww) > > >>=20 > > >> Anyone find a solution that doesn't have a glaring flaw, > > unlike the > > >> above? I suppose the closest I can think of is to do > > >> everything in high=20 > > >> resolution, e.g. for a 1600x1200 interface, and then resample=20 > > >> down for=20 > > >> lower resolution displays. > > >>=20 > > >> Brian > > >>=20 > > >>=20 > > >>=20 > > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Sponsored by: > > >> ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/=20 > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Gamedevlists-general mailing list=20 > > >> Gam...@li... > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > > >> Archives:=20 > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?> forum_id=3D557 > > >>=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > TF> ------------------------------------------------------- > > TF> Sponsored by: > > TF> ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > > TF> _______________________________________________ > > TF> Gamedevlists-general mailing list > > TF> Gam...@li... > > TF>=20 > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-gene ral > TF> Archives: > TF> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Kent Quirk, CTO, CogniToy > ken...@co... > http://www.cognitoy.com >=20 ------------------------------------------------------- Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 |
|
From: Tom F. <to...@mu...> - 2002-06-25 14:03:34
|
The other cute trick I've heard of is to bite the bullet and put Flash in the game. Then the artists can do front ends and GUIs all they like, and the graphics coders don't have to be involved at all, so we can get on with the actual 3D stuff. Which appeals to me, seeing as the last fancy GUI we did chewed 6 months of a programmer's time. That was bad. Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. This email is the product of your deranged imagination, and does not in any way imply existence of the author. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Quirk [mailto:ken...@co...] > Sent: 25 June 2002 14:59 > To: Tom Forsyth > Cc: Brian Hook; gam...@li... > Subject: Re: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics > > > We just built a skinnable GUI for a game we're doing. All the graphics > in the game are built from individual components at load time, with > the layout described in an XML file. We haven't supported any form of > scaling, as it's my experience that scaling always looks like hell. > But we do support tiling, so what we do is build a background texture > that's seamlessly tileable, and lay that down first. Then we place > interface elements on top of that. > > It let me use mixed file formats (highly compressed jpgs for the > background, GIFs for basic interface elements, and PNGs where I needed > transparency), and in addition to increased flexibility, we took about > 1.5 meg of interface graphics and compressed it to less than 300K. > > Kent > > > Tuesday, June 25, 2002, 6:19:55 AM, you wrote: > > TF> My favourite solution is to scale, but only by powers of > two. So you design > TF> GUI graphics for 640x480. For 800x600 and 1024x768, you > don't scale, you > TF> just move them further apart (i.e. the bits stick to the > cornr, edge or > TF> centre as required). For 1280x1024 and above, you double > the size so that at > TF> least stuff is readable. > > TF> To do the scale x2 you can either just do the bilinear > filter thing (which > TF> doesn't look too bad on power-of-two scales), or just get > the artists to do > TF> second versions. Or mix'n'match (e.g. hand-done bigger > font, but scaled > TF> backgrounds). > > TF> Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. > > TF> This email is the product of your deranged imagination, > TF> and does not in any way imply existence of the author. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > >> Sent: 25 June 2002 04:23 > >> To: gam...@li... > >> Subject: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics > >> > >> > >> Okay, this is a common problem that I'm sure others have > >> dealt with on > >> numerous occasions, but I have yet to deal with it so I'm > >> curious what the > >> conventional wisdom is. > >> > >> Basically it's the age old problem of having an interface > >> that looks good > >> at all resolutions. AFAICT, the standards are: > >> > >> - do low res graphics for everything, then zoom appropriately > >> (leads to > >> serious blurring) > >> > >> - do multiple resolution graphics (lots of content) > >> > >> - render GUI graphics into textures/images instead of using > >> prefab images > >> (i.e. actually write line/circle/filled region software renderers) > >> > >> - don't scale, just make everything smaller (8x8 font at > >> 1600x1200...ewwww) > >> > >> Anyone find a solution that doesn't have a glaring flaw, > unlike the > >> above? I suppose the closest I can think of is to do > >> everything in high > >> resolution, e.g. for a 1600x1200 interface, and then resample > >> down for > >> lower resolution displays. > >> > >> Brian > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> Sponsored by: > >> ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Gamedevlists-general mailing list > >> Gam...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > >> Archives: > >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > >> > > > TF> ------------------------------------------------------- > TF> Sponsored by: > TF> ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > TF> _______________________________________________ > TF> Gamedevlists-general mailing list > TF> Gam...@li... > TF> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > TF> Archives: > TF> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > > > -- > Kent Quirk, CTO, CogniToy > ken...@co... > http://www.cognitoy.com > |
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From: Kent Q. <ken...@co...> - 2002-06-25 13:59:31
|
We just built a skinnable GUI for a game we're doing. All the graphics
in the game are built from individual components at load time, with
the layout described in an XML file. We haven't supported any form of
scaling, as it's my experience that scaling always looks like hell.
But we do support tiling, so what we do is build a background texture
that's seamlessly tileable, and lay that down first. Then we place
interface elements on top of that.
It let me use mixed file formats (highly compressed jpgs for the
background, GIFs for basic interface elements, and PNGs where I needed
transparency), and in addition to increased flexibility, we took about
1.5 meg of interface graphics and compressed it to less than 300K.
Kent
Tuesday, June 25, 2002, 6:19:55 AM, you wrote:
TF> My favourite solution is to scale, but only by powers of two. So you design
TF> GUI graphics for 640x480. For 800x600 and 1024x768, you don't scale, you
TF> just move them further apart (i.e. the bits stick to the cornr, edge or
TF> centre as required). For 1280x1024 and above, you double the size so that at
TF> least stuff is readable.
TF> To do the scale x2 you can either just do the bilinear filter thing (which
TF> doesn't look too bad on power-of-two scales), or just get the artists to do
TF> second versions. Or mix'n'match (e.g. hand-done bigger font, but scaled
TF> backgrounds).
TF> Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke.
TF> This email is the product of your deranged imagination,
TF> and does not in any way imply existence of the author.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...]
>> Sent: 25 June 2002 04:23
>> To: gam...@li...
>> Subject: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics
>>
>>
>> Okay, this is a common problem that I'm sure others have
>> dealt with on
>> numerous occasions, but I have yet to deal with it so I'm
>> curious what the
>> conventional wisdom is.
>>
>> Basically it's the age old problem of having an interface
>> that looks good
>> at all resolutions. AFAICT, the standards are:
>>
>> - do low res graphics for everything, then zoom appropriately
>> (leads to
>> serious blurring)
>>
>> - do multiple resolution graphics (lots of content)
>>
>> - render GUI graphics into textures/images instead of using
>> prefab images
>> (i.e. actually write line/circle/filled region software renderers)
>>
>> - don't scale, just make everything smaller (8x8 font at
>> 1600x1200...ewwww)
>>
>> Anyone find a solution that doesn't have a glaring flaw, unlike the
>> above? I suppose the closest I can think of is to do
>> everything in high
>> resolution, e.g. for a 1600x1200 interface, and then resample
>> down for
>> lower resolution displays.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Sponsored by:
>> ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
>> Gam...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
>> Archives:
>> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
>>
TF> -------------------------------------------------------
TF> Sponsored by:
TF> ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/
TF> _______________________________________________
TF> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
TF> Gam...@li...
TF> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
TF> Archives:
TF> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
--
Kent Quirk, CTO, CogniToy
ken...@co...
http://www.cognitoy.com
|
|
From: Tom F. <to...@mu...> - 2002-06-25 10:27:32
|
My favourite solution is to scale, but only by powers of two. So you design GUI graphics for 640x480. For 800x600 and 1024x768, you don't scale, you just move them further apart (i.e. the bits stick to the cornr, edge or centre as required). For 1280x1024 and above, you double the size so that at least stuff is readable. To do the scale x2 you can either just do the bilinear filter thing (which doesn't look too bad on power-of-two scales), or just get the artists to do second versions. Or mix'n'match (e.g. hand-done bigger font, but scaled backgrounds). Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. This email is the product of your deranged imagination, and does not in any way imply existence of the author. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] > Sent: 25 June 2002 04:23 > To: gam...@li... > Subject: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics > > > Okay, this is a common problem that I'm sure others have > dealt with on > numerous occasions, but I have yet to deal with it so I'm > curious what the > conventional wisdom is. > > Basically it's the age old problem of having an interface > that looks good > at all resolutions. AFAICT, the standards are: > > - do low res graphics for everything, then zoom appropriately > (leads to > serious blurring) > > - do multiple resolution graphics (lots of content) > > - render GUI graphics into textures/images instead of using > prefab images > (i.e. actually write line/circle/filled region software renderers) > > - don't scale, just make everything smaller (8x8 font at > 1600x1200...ewwww) > > Anyone find a solution that doesn't have a glaring flaw, unlike the > above? I suppose the closest I can think of is to do > everything in high > resolution, e.g. for a 1600x1200 interface, and then resample > down for > lower resolution displays. > > Brian > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Sponsored by: > ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > |
|
From: Philip H. <ph...@me...> - 2002-06-25 09:55:45
|
IMO the best solution is to do multiple sets of graphics but as you say that means lots of content. So, assuming you can't afford all that content I would create the interface graphics at several resolutions (as many as you can, say 800x600 and 1600x1200) and then scale for the intermediate resolutions. One thing that doesn't seem to get done very often is considering having a different UI for the higher resolutions. The extra screen space may well allow a more efficient/useful interface. Even if it's just a case of adding additional information. Philip Harris Batfish Studios Ltd http://www.batfishstudios.com -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Brian Hook Sent: 25 June 2002 04:23 To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics Okay, this is a common problem that I'm sure others have dealt with on numerous occasions, but I have yet to deal with it so I'm curious what the conventional wisdom is. Basically it's the age old problem of having an interface that looks good at all resolutions. AFAICT, the standards are: - do low res graphics for everything, then zoom appropriately (leads to serious blurring) - do multiple resolution graphics (lots of content) - render GUI graphics into textures/images instead of using prefab images (i.e. actually write line/circle/filled region software renderers) - don't scale, just make everything smaller (8x8 font at 1600x1200...ewwww) Anyone find a solution that doesn't have a glaring flaw, unlike the above? I suppose the closest I can think of is to do everything in high resolution, e.g. for a 1600x1200 interface, and then resample down for lower resolution displays. Brian ------------------------------------------------------- Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 |
|
From: Gareth L. <GL...@cl...> - 2002-06-25 09:08:54
|
What about using a vector format for the graphics as apposed to a bitmap format ? I've never tried this, but WMFs for example are very well documented, and even Photoshop (if I understand my artists correctly) have moved over to this. For fonts just use proper ttf. If you insist on bitmap graphics, fonts are a special case and a simple one at that. just sample the ttf to a bitmap scaled based on your background. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hook [mailto:bri...@py...] Sent: 25 June 2002 04:23 To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] Scaling GUI graphics Okay, this is a common problem that I'm sure others have dealt with on numerous occasions, but I have yet to deal with it so I'm curious what the conventional wisdom is. Basically it's the age old problem of having an interface that looks good at all resolutions. AFAICT, the standards are: - do low res graphics for everything, then zoom appropriately (leads to serious blurring) - do multiple resolution graphics (lots of content) - render GUI graphics into textures/images instead of using prefab images (i.e. actually write line/circle/filled region software renderers) - don't scale, just make everything smaller (8x8 font at 1600x1200...ewwww) Anyone find a solution that doesn't have a glaring flaw, unlike the above? I suppose the closest I can think of is to do everything in high resolution, e.g. for a 1600x1200 interface, and then resample down for lower resolution displays. Brian ------------------------------------------------------- Sponsored by: ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 |
|
From: Brian H. <bri...@py...> - 2002-06-25 03:21:39
|
Okay, this is a common problem that I'm sure others have dealt with on numerous occasions, but I have yet to deal with it so I'm curious what the conventional wisdom is. Basically it's the age old problem of having an interface that looks good at all resolutions. AFAICT, the standards are: - do low res graphics for everything, then zoom appropriately (leads to serious blurring) - do multiple resolution graphics (lots of content) - render GUI graphics into textures/images instead of using prefab images (i.e. actually write line/circle/filled region software renderers) - don't scale, just make everything smaller (8x8 font at 1600x1200...ewwww) Anyone find a solution that doesn't have a glaring flaw, unlike the above? I suppose the closest I can think of is to do everything in high resolution, e.g. for a 1600x1200 interface, and then resample down for lower resolution displays. Brian |
|
From: Aaron D. <ri...@ho...> - 2002-06-17 09:03:30
|
I'm having some trouble figuring out how to begin an exporter for 3DS Max (3.1). I've been working with Pierre Terdiman's Flexporter plug-in but I'm curious and eager to begin writing my own native exporter (I would like to support multiple texture layers for instance). I'm a University Student and have the Student version of MAX3 which appears to lack SDK documentation. Is it still possible for me to develop plugin's with what I have or do I have to fork out for a full-blown version? Thanks, Aaron |
|
From: Idahosa I. O. E. <ida...@sw...> - 2002-05-21 20:07:39
|
Does anybody know of any good freeware tile editor? The main requirement is the ease with which I can load the file format. Idahosa Edokpayi O2Cool Games Software |
|
From: Warrick B. <War...@po...> - 2002-05-13 13:54:34
|
Has anyone dealt with adding their game resources into their game exe's programmatically? I'm looking for a solution that works across Win98 onwards (So one that doesn't use UpdateResource()...). If anyones done this I'd love to hear from you! Thanks, Warrick. |
|
From: Tom F. <to...@mu...> - 2002-05-13 11:48:15
|
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=34511 Tom Forsyth - purely hypothetical Muckyfoot bloke. This email is the product of your deranged imagination, and does not in any way imply existence of the author. > -----Original Message----- > From: Warrick Buchanan [mailto:War...@po...] > Sent: 13 May 2002 12:37 > To: gam...@li... > Subject: [GD-General] Does anybody know of a good Win32 mailing list? > > > Does anybody know of a good Win32 (Ideally to do with > straight Win32 API) > mailing list? As I can't seem to access newsgroups at the moment... > > Thanks, > > Warrick. > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download > mirrors. We supply > the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: > ban...@so... > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > |
|
From: Warrick B. <War...@po...> - 2002-05-13 11:37:02
|
Does anybody know of a good Win32 (Ideally to do with straight Win32 API) mailing list? As I can't seem to access newsgroups at the moment... Thanks, Warrick. |
|
From: Joe C. <dar...@ya...> - 2002-05-09 18:16:57
|
Hmm... sounds pretty sketchy. That happened to my father. supposedly the recruiter accidently sent his resume to his then current employer and he was fired for looking around. He managed to get lost wages from the recruiter... --- phi...@pl... wrote: > > Personally I'd avoid using a recruitment agency, I > think they're at about > the same level as estate agents. > > One of the larger uk ones has the dubious reputation > of informing on people > who are making inquiries through them. AS in; you're > pissed off with your > company, and phone said agency to see if there's > anything interesting > going. Said agent then tells your boss (with whom > he/she does a lot of > business) that you're looking to leave. Presumably > hoping to a: field a > replacement, and b: get you into the job market > faster, racking up two > comissions in the process. > > Cheers, > Phil > > > > > > > > > "Javier Arevalo" > > > <ja...@py...> > To: > <gam...@li...> > > Sent by: > cc: > > > gam...@li...urc > Subject: Re: [GD-General] How I hate recruitment > agencies within any > eforge.net > industry especially games... > > > > > > > > 05/09/2002 07:52 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take the time to put together a good resume and a > demo or art reel (demo in > your case). Buy Edge magazine for a couple months > since many UK houses ad > there. Do your homework and put together a list of > companies that you would > want to work for, check their websites, find their > addresses and contact > infos, mail company employees whose emails you find > in public forums like > this one (ONLY as a last resort, always politely and > concisely, and only > ONCE whether you get an answer or not). Then send > copies of your resume and > demo/reel, along with personalized letters > explaining what makes you > interested in working for each specific company. > > Doing all this hard(er) work will pay off, and it'll > be a good warmup since > once you land the job, you'll be working quite hard > anyway. :) > > As for recruitment companies, I don't know nor care. > I guess they have > their > place since people and companies use their services, > it's up to each one to > decide if the time & hassle saved is worth the money > paid. No need to call > them names, at least not before you have proven your > own worth methinks. > > Javier Arevalo > Pyro Studios > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anon Pie" <an...@ho...> > > > > At the moment I'm looking for a new programming > job within the (UK) games > > industry (Well I'm beginning to wonder if I should > do something else > > instead) and I'm part playing with the fun that is > recruitment agents. I > > really do hate them. If they place me the lucky > company will have to > shell > > out ~25% of the offered salary to the agency after > I've been there three > > months. This has the effect of driving down the > salary I will be offered > > which sucks. > > > > So why use a recruitment agency? The simple > reason why I find myself > being > > thrown back into that trap when I move jobs is > because there is no single > > one place where I can find a list of 'real' jobs > currently available - > plus > > some companies do not have the time or resources > to advertise properly. > Yeh > > you can see job listings on the internet but I can > guarantee the majority > do > > not exist and have been placed as bait by agents. > This is an appalling > > situation. > > > > I have not yet seen or heard of one example where > an agent has been > anywhere > > remotely worth the ~25% they charge. I find it > sickening. All they have > > ever done is get in the way and lose me jobs by > not responding quickly > > enough - or by reformating my CV - Ever turned up > for an interview and > found > > that the company has an altered form of your CV > with the wording > changed? - > > this is especially great when an agent assumes > that his/her technical > > knowledge is far superior and rewords jargon so it > no longer makes any > sense > > or infact creates new words that have no > meaning... > > > > Every time I'm called in for an interview that > turns out to be with an > agent > > I find it immensely frustrating - as if this guy > sat in front of me is > > really is able to fathom my knowledge of C++, > assembly language and 3d > > experience! And as if he was there until 3am the > other day doing 'just > one > > more room' in Dungeon Siege or fragging someones > ass online. They're > > vultures who provide nothing more than a rip-off > introductory service and > > then proceed to pop up in an annoying manor > afterwards. > > > > It's annoyed me so much I'm actually thinking of > setting up my own games > > recruitment agency (eek!). As far as I can see it > a decent agency should > > provide: > > > > 1) A web service where companies can advertise > directly for a standard > > decent advertising rate. ie: candidates can go to > one central place and > > find a list of jobs currently available and > actually have decent details > on > > them and who they're for and how to contact the > company involved > *directly*. > > > > 2) A premier service where employers can ask the > agency to filter > candidates > > as they simply don't have the time and resources > to see everyone. But > the > > filtering service would be provided by people like > me === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: <phi...@pl...> - 2002-05-09 18:04:22
|
Personally I'd avoid using a recruitment agency, I think they're at about
the same level as estate agents.
One of the larger uk ones has the dubious reputation of informing on people
who are making inquiries through them. AS in; you're pissed off with your
company, and phone said agency to see if there's anything interesting
going. Said agent then tells your boss (with whom he/she does a lot of
business) that you're looking to leave. Presumably hoping to a: field a
replacement, and b: get you into the job market faster, racking up two
comissions in the process.
Cheers,
Phil
"Javier Arevalo"
<ja...@py...> To: <gam...@li...>
Sent by: cc:
gam...@li...urc Subject: Re: [GD-General] How I hate recruitment agencies within any
eforge.net industry especially games...
05/09/2002 07:52 AM
Take the time to put together a good resume and a demo or art reel (demo in
your case). Buy Edge magazine for a couple months since many UK houses ad
there. Do your homework and put together a list of companies that you would
want to work for, check their websites, find their addresses and contact
infos, mail company employees whose emails you find in public forums like
this one (ONLY as a last resort, always politely and concisely, and only
ONCE whether you get an answer or not). Then send copies of your resume and
demo/reel, along with personalized letters explaining what makes you
interested in working for each specific company.
Doing all this hard(er) work will pay off, and it'll be a good warmup since
once you land the job, you'll be working quite hard anyway. :)
As for recruitment companies, I don't know nor care. I guess they have
their
place since people and companies use their services, it's up to each one to
decide if the time & hassle saved is worth the money paid. No need to call
them names, at least not before you have proven your own worth methinks.
Javier Arevalo
Pyro Studios
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anon Pie" <an...@ho...>
> At the moment I'm looking for a new programming job within the (UK) games
> industry (Well I'm beginning to wonder if I should do something else
> instead) and I'm part playing with the fun that is recruitment agents. I
> really do hate them. If they place me the lucky company will have to
shell
> out ~25% of the offered salary to the agency after I've been there three
> months. This has the effect of driving down the salary I will be offered
> which sucks.
>
> So why use a recruitment agency? The simple reason why I find myself
being
> thrown back into that trap when I move jobs is because there is no single
> one place where I can find a list of 'real' jobs currently available -
plus
> some companies do not have the time or resources to advertise properly.
Yeh
> you can see job listings on the internet but I can guarantee the majority
do
> not exist and have been placed as bait by agents. This is an appalling
> situation.
>
> I have not yet seen or heard of one example where an agent has been
anywhere
> remotely worth the ~25% they charge. I find it sickening. All they have
> ever done is get in the way and lose me jobs by not responding quickly
> enough - or by reformating my CV - Ever turned up for an interview and
found
> that the company has an altered form of your CV with the wording
changed? -
> this is especially great when an agent assumes that his/her technical
> knowledge is far superior and rewords jargon so it no longer makes any
sense
> or infact creates new words that have no meaning...
>
> Every time I'm called in for an interview that turns out to be with an
agent
> I find it immensely frustrating - as if this guy sat in front of me is
> really is able to fathom my knowledge of C++, assembly language and 3d
> experience! And as if he was there until 3am the other day doing 'just
one
> more room' in Dungeon Siege or fragging someones ass online. They're
> vultures who provide nothing more than a rip-off introductory service and
> then proceed to pop up in an annoying manor afterwards.
>
> It's annoyed me so much I'm actually thinking of setting up my own games
> recruitment agency (eek!). As far as I can see it a decent agency should
> provide:
>
> 1) A web service where companies can advertise directly for a standard
> decent advertising rate. ie: candidates can go to one central place and
> find a list of jobs currently available and actually have decent details
on
> them and who they're for and how to contact the company involved
*directly*.
>
> 2) A premier service where employers can ask the agency to filter
candidates
> as they simply don't have the time and resources to see everyone. But
the
> filtering service would be provided by people like me who actually knew
what
> they were talking about and could properly evaluate a candidates
expertise.
>
> I'd be grateful to hear anybody elses opinions on this matter even if you
> think I've gone mad! .... which I probably did a while back ;)
>
> Now I have a strange urge to watch Jerry Maguire....
>
> PS: If I actually do this and I end up being like the rest of the agency
> fuckwits please someone shoot me and put me out of my misery!
_______________________________________________________________
Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download mirrors. We supply
the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: ban...@so...
_______________________________________________
Gamedevlists-general mailing list
Gam...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
Archives:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
|
|
From: Philip H. <ph...@me...> - 2002-05-09 16:29:24
|
25% sounds high to me, my experience has always been around 15%. I would echo what Javier said about checking out Edge and contacting companies direct. Not every company will consider non-agency applications but I am always much more interested in people I don't have to pay a fee just to hire :) Sadly we don't have any vacancies at the moment. In my experience the one advantage you get with agencies is that you get a response from companies much quicker. I know of companies that can take several weeks to turn down direct applicants but agencies get a yes/no response immediately. Philip Harris Batfish Studios Ltd http://www.batfishstudios.com -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Anon Pie Sent: 09 May 2002 14:45 To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] How I hate recruitment agencies within any industry especially games... At the moment I'm looking for a new programming job within the (UK) games industry (Well I'm beginning to wonder if I should do something else instead) and I'm part playing with the fun that is recruitment agents. I really do hate them. If they place me the lucky company will have to shell out ~25% of the offered salary to the agency after I've been there three months. This has the effect of driving down the salary I will be offered which sucks. So why use a recruitment agency? The simple reason why I find myself being thrown back into that trap when I move jobs is because there is no single one place where I can find a list of 'real' jobs currently available - plus some companies do not have the time or resources to advertise properly. Yeh you can see job listings on the internet but I can guarantee the majority do not exist and have been placed as bait by agents. This is an appalling situation. I have not yet seen or heard of one example where an agent has been anywhere remotely worth the ~25% they charge. I find it sickening. All they have ever done is get in the way and lose me jobs by not responding quickly enough - or by reformating my CV - Ever turned up for an interview and found that the company has an altered form of your CV with the wording changed? - this is especially great when an agent assumes that his/her technical knowledge is far superior and rewords jargon so it no longer makes any sense or infact creates new words that have no meaning... Every time I'm called in for an interview that turns out to be with an agent I find it immensely frustrating - as if this guy sat in front of me is really is able to fathom my knowledge of C++, assembly language and 3d experience! And as if he was there until 3am the other day doing 'just one more room' in Dungeon Siege or fragging someones ass online. They're vultures who provide nothing more than a rip-off introductory service and then proceed to pop up in an annoying manor afterwards. It's annoyed me so much I'm actually thinking of setting up my own games recruitment agency (eek!). As far as I can see it a decent agency should provide: 1) A web service where companies can advertise directly for a standard decent advertising rate. ie: candidates can go to one central place and find a list of jobs currently available and actually have decent details on them and who they're for and how to contact the company involved *directly*. 2) A premier service where employers can ask the agency to filter candidates as they simply don't have the time and resources to see everyone. But the filtering service would be provided by people like me who actually knew what they were talking about and could properly evaluate a candidates expertise. I'd be grateful to hear anybody elses opinions on this matter even if you think I've gone mad! .... which I probably did a while back ;) Now I have a strange urge to watch Jerry Maguire.... PS: If I actually do this and I end up being like the rest of the agency fuckwits please someone shoot me and put me out of my misery! _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Have big pipes? SourceForge.net is looking for download mirrors. We supply the hardware. You get the recognition. Email Us: ban...@so... _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 |
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