gamedevlists-general — List for discussing general game development issues

RE: [GD-General] PureAnarchyGames.com seeking Indie Games for Pub lishing & Distribution

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

I copied that here :)

_______________________
Regards, Gareth Lewin
Programmer, Climax Solent.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ge...@ub... [mailto:ge...@ub...]
> Sent: 02 April 2003 03:04
> To: Gam...@li...
> Subject: [GD-General] PureAnarchyGames.com seeking Indie Games for
> Publishing & Distribution
> 
> 
> PureAnarchyGames.com are opening our doors on April 1st, 
> April Fools Day, 2003 and we are currently seeking 
> independent game developers with Games ready to sell through 
> our online Portal- http://www.pureanarchygames.com. 
> 
> With extremely competitive royalty rates, no-setup fees and 
> an open-door policy for Games (no restrictions on the Engine 
> or Development platform involved), PureAnarchyGames are set 
> to change the foundation of the Independent Game industry.
> 
> Check out http://developer.pureanarchygames.com for 
> additional information, submission guidelines & forms, as 
> well as Developer FAQ's, sample payment and royalty schedules 
> and more.
> 
> This is a unique opportunity for independent game developers 
> to get in on the ground floor of the Newest Independent 
> Publisher on the `Net. With our non-exclusive publishing 
> agreements, developer support (through cutting-edge open 
> source technology, merchandise, music & video/film licensing, 
> business support and more), PureAnarchyGames is THE way of 
> the Future for Independent Game Development.
> 
> Check us out Today - http://developer.pureanarchygames.com
> 
> For additional information or to sign an NDA to discuss YOUR 
> game, please contact:
> 
> Mike Wuetherick
> Gekido Design Group
> dev...@pu...
> http://developer.pureanarchygames.com
> mike w
> www.uber-geek.ca
> 
> 
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[GD-General] PureAnarchyGames.com seeking Indie Games for Publishing & Distribution

[<ge...@ub...>]

PureAnarchyGames.com are opening our doors on April 1st, April Fools Day, 2003 and we are currently seeking independent game developers with Games ready to sell through our online Portal- http://www.pureanarchygames.com. 

With extremely competitive royalty rates, no-setup fees and an open-door policy for Games (no restrictions on the Engine or Development platform involved), PureAnarchyGames are set to change the foundation of the Independent Game industry.

Check out http://developer.pureanarchygames.com for additional information, submission guidelines & forms, as well as Developer FAQ's, sample payment and royalty schedules and more.

This is a unique opportunity for independent game developers to get in on the ground floor of the Newest Independent Publisher on the `Net. With our non-exclusive publishing agreements, developer support (through cutting-edge open source technology, merchandise, music & video/film licensing, business support and more), PureAnarchyGames is THE way of the Future for Independent Game Development.

Check us out Today – http://developer.pureanarchygames.com

For additional information or to sign an NDA to discuss YOUR game, please contact:

Mike Wuetherick
Gekido Design Group
dev...@pu...
http://developer.pureanarchygames.com
mike w
www.uber-geek.ca

Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[<phi...@pl...>]

> Actually IIRC it was done to maintain 1:1 pixel/point ratio with print.

That's right, it's all coming back to me now. 72dpi IIRC. Meant that an A4
screen really was A4, also meant that Mac games had to shift at least four
times as many pixels to achieve the same effect as PC games that could just
change to 320x240 regardless of monitor size. Quite possibly the single
biggest thing that killed the Mac as a serious games machine.

(ok, other than the price of the machine)

Cheers,
Phil

Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[~BG~ <arc...@ma...>]

On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 12:12  PM,  
phi...@pl... wrote:

> PS Mac games used to have this problem, as the only way you could  
> change
> screen resolution, was by plugging in a different monitor, plus they  
> had
> multiple monitors way back in the early 90s. This was due to Mac's  
> having a
> fixed dpi, which in turne was not for any strong technical reason, but  
> for
> some strange reason that I'm sure was not unrelated to Steve Job's  
> reality
> distortion field. I believe this changed around System 8, but since the
> last one I worked on was System 7.5, I can't be sure.

Actually IIRC it was done to maintain 1:1 pixel/point ratio with print.  
Print also played a big role in the standard gamma differences between  
Macs and Windows PCs at the time as well...

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RE: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[<phi...@pl...>]

> >"Do you want the image stretched (which might be blurrier) or
> >centered (which might be smaller)?"

Given that you're not actually going to be able to 'solve' this issue
technically, giving the user the choice is the right thing to do.

You should allow them to pick from a range of suitable zoom ratio's, 1x,
2x, as well as fit to screen, or in a window with a fixed ratio, or manual
resizing.

As for multiple monitors, I know MacOS allows you to enumerate physical
devices, and I'm pretty sure DirectX does too. Either only display on the
primary monitor (where your menu bar is on the Mac, dunno about Windows),
or again, offer the user the choice, and remember it.

Getting little things like this right, are a key element in not pissing off
the player (which is pretty important in working that "word of mouth"
thing).

Cheers,
Phil

PS Mac games used to have this problem, as the only way you could change
screen resolution, was by plugging in a different monitor, plus they had
multiple monitors way back in the early 90s. This was due to Mac's having a
fixed dpi, which in turne was not for any strong technical reason, but for
some strange reason that I'm sure was not unrelated to Steve Job's reality
distortion field. I believe this changed around System 8, but since the
last one I worked on was System 7.5, I can't be sure.

RE: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Brian H. <ho...@py...>]

>There is no perfect solution for one-stop, unconstrained=
 content
>production paired with perfect, multi-resolution display. Well,
>there is vector artwork (designed to solve this exact problem)=
 like
>Flash or SVG. And of course 3D (vector artwork in the next
>dimension!).

Well sure, but since vector graphics and 3D are both common=
 solutions 
to their respective problems, I was hoping (foolishly, granted),=
 that 
there was an equivalent in the tile/sprite space.  I doubted=
 there 
was, but because I haven't worked in that medium before I didn't=
 want 
to blithely assume that was the case, hence my query.

>Before you spend too many hours fighting this issue, I would do=
 more
>than guess about your target market. 

Excuse me while I laugh.  HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!  Sorry, just had to 
giggle at the notion that there's a source for meaningful=
 statistics 
on consumer penetration of hardware =3D)

>TheCounter.com (who gather statistics off the web -- skewed,=
 yes,
>but you did mention downloadable content so it is applicable)

For this game it will appeal to a more hardcore gamer market, but=
 it 
will still be relatively low system spec.  If you take a look at=
 
games like MOO3, Galactic Civilizations, etc. you'll note that 
they're not aimed at the highest end of hardware but they are 
definitely aimed at a non-casual gaming market.  The same could=
 be 
said of many of the isometric RPGs out there.

For that market, I'm assuming 1024 and up is a much larger=
 fraction.

>"Do you want the image stretched (which might be blurrier) or
>centered (which might be smaller)?" 

Right, this will likely be the case for any modes outside of 
1024x768.

Brian

RE: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Troy G. <Tr...@cs...>]

> Well, consider the pixel density.  You're probably using a 15.1" 
> laptop screen with a 1600x1200 resolution, so your pixels are going 
> to be very small.  A standard 17 or 18" LCD is running at 1280x1024, 
> so you're going to see much 

Agreed. Probably the reason that all those LCDs at E3 look so crappy.

> >I assume the best solution is to have multi-resolution artwork
> Yes, this is the ideal solution, but it requires a lot more content 
> generation and it also requires a lot more storage and download size, 
> so it's not practical in every situation.

Well, of course. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You've got to
either play the odds on what the consumer will have, or put more work in to
cover your bases, or be prepared to handle special cases with special
instructions or support (or "sorry!").

There is no perfect solution for one-stop, unconstrained content production
paired with perfect, multi-resolution display. Well, there is vector artwork
(designed to solve this exact problem) like Flash or SVG. And of course 3D
(vector artwork in the next dimension!).

> >targeting the major resolutions (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768,
> >1280x1024, etc.). Of course, it would be a pain to hand design this
> >artwork. 
> 
> Unfortunately there are a lot more major resolutions than that.  
> 1152x864 is common on Macs; 1400x1000 (?) on some laptops; 1600x1024; 
> 1600x1200; 1920x1200; etc.  And while neither of these individual 
> resolutions is very common, combined they make up a sizable fraction 
> of the market (I would guess).

Before you spend too many hours fighting this issue, I would do more than
guess about your target market. A quick perusal of TheCounter.com (who
gather statistics off the web -- skewed, yes, but you did mention
downloadable content so it is applicable) reveals that ~46% of potential
customers are using 800x600, ~42% using 1024x768, ~5% using 1280x1024, ~3%
1152x864, and ~3% other. Now, this does sound a bit skewed from what common
knowledge would suggest, but then again I hang out with a bunch of game
developers and artists, not exactly the crown who'd be using out-of-the-box
screen resolutions. But if I was selling a game (particularly one where the
mainstream crowd meant something to me) I'd be targetting 640x480, 800x600,
1024x768. Anything else, I'd just ask the user: "Do you want the image
stretched (which might be blurrier) or centered (which might be smaller)?"
Not all things can be solved algorithmically (particularly when you start
second-guessing people's preferences).

> >would be to produce the highest resolution originals and use a
> >better-than-bicubic down-sampling filter (which most often muddies
> >pixelart).
> 
> That's probably the best route, except it does keep content sizes 
> fairly high.

Again, you can't have your cake and eat it too!

Troy
Developer Relations
Criterion Software
www.csl.com

RE: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Brian H. <ho...@py...>]

>I find this odd... I am constantly on the road and on airplanes,=
 so
>I'm forced to do most of my PC gaming on my laptop (and it's=
 faster
>to boot, so it's not all bad!). The laptop runs at a native
>resolution of 1600x1200, but have absolutely no legibility=
 problems
>playing any games at lower resolutions (and I play all of them

Well, consider the pixel density.  You're probably using a 15.1"=
 
laptop screen with a 1600x1200 resolution, so your pixels are=
 going 
to be very small.  A standard 17 or 18" LCD is running at=
 1280x1024, 
so you're going to see much 

Also, scaling up to 1600x1200 gives the interpolation hardware a=
 lot 
more breathing room to work, instead of dealing with just pixel 
fractions.  Scaling an 800x600 -> 1600x1200 won't introduce near=
 the 
artifacts that going from 1024x768 -> 1280x1024 would.

>I assume the best solution is to have multi-resolution artwork

Yes, this is the ideal solution, but it requires a lot more=
 content 
generation and it also requires a lot more storage and download=
 size, 
so it's not practical in every situation.

>targeting the major resolutions (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768,
>1280x1024, etc.). Of course, it would be a pain to hand design=
 this
>artwork. 

Unfortunately there are a lot more major resolutions than that. =
 
1152x864 is common on Macs; 1400x1000 (?) on some laptops;=
 1600x1024; 
1600x1200; 1920x1200; etc.  And while neither of these individual=
 
resolutions is very common, combined they make up a sizable=
 fraction 
of the market (I would guess).

>would be to produce the highest resolution originals and use a
>better-than-bicubic down-sampling filter (which most often=
 muddies
>pixelart).

That's probably the best route, except it does keep content sizes=
 
fairly high.

Brian

Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Dan B. <_da...@ya...>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivan-Assen Ivanov" <as...@ha...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:06 AM
Subject: RE: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)


> >   I've thought a bit abut this for an (amateur)
> > project I'm about to start. I came to the conclusion
> > that I will store the tiles as a simple mesh, then
> > render a tileset at the start of a level/room or if
> > the resolution changes. Nice and cacheable (especially
> > on a PC where you can dump it to disk afterwards).
>
> So, it's like, enjoy the problems both from 3D and tile technology,
> and reap the benefits of neither ;-)


I'm a masochist...

ahem, it's not quite that bad, the foreground stuff is 3d, but the
backgrounds are static so I might as well save some cycles if the tile
meshes become more intricate (i.e. if someone other than me does the
artwork). I didn't need dynamic effects so I decided on this scheme.

Cheers,

  Dan

RE: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Troy G. <Tr...@cs...>]

> That is the gist of it.  Running at a resolution other than the 
> native LCD resolution looks really bad -- not in a "this is kinda 
> crappy" way, but in a "this is pretty damned illegible" kind of way.  
> So just going fullscreen is actually worse than running windowed.  I 
> tried playing Homeworld the other day, and it has a cap of 1024x768.  
> When I tried to run it, I pretty much couldn't read the menus on my 
> Viewsonic VA800.

I find this odd... I am constantly on the road and on airplanes, so I'm
forced to do most of my PC gaming on my laptop (and it's faster to boot, so
it's not all bad!). The laptop runs at a native resolution of 1600x1200, but
have absolutely no legibility problems playing any games at lower
resolutions (and I play all of them except Medal of Honor at lower
resolutions -- I like the extra resolution for aiming over distances). These
include alot of 2D games (my particular favorites) including the recent
SimCity4. I sometimes find the scaled up graphics with the filtering a nice
change from the "supersharp" non-filtered graphics of a CRT.

Of course, this isn't always the case... really well done pixelart looks
great running at it's native resolution (whether it be CRT or LCD), and
interlaced signals look *awful* on LCDs! It drives me insane at GDC, E3,
ECTS, Xfest, DevCon, etc., all of these video game related tradeshows they
attach the systems to LCDs... I think they make most games look worse
(because of the large amount of filtering being done on the interlacing,
which ironically most games are already doing assuming the signal will
remained interlaced!).

I assume the best solution is to have multi-resolution artwork targeting the
major resolutions (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, etc.). Of course,
it would be a pain to hand design this artwork. But, I believe there are two
routes to reducing the workload. First, develop the artwork in a
resolution-independent format, such as a 3D (ala Starcraft) or vector
artwork. These can then be rendered to whatever needed resolution. The
second option would be to produce the highest resolution originals and use a
better-than-bicubic down-sampling filter (which most often muddies
pixelart). I'd recommend separating out luminosity from the chroma channel,
then applying different filters to each before recombining. For chroma, a
simple bicubic should work fine, and for luminosity you'd want a detail
preserving filter. I can't recall one off the top of my head, but Game
Developer had a few articles (a few years ago, so they should be on
Gamasutra) about better-than-bicubic down-sampling for things like mipmaps
with text.

Troy
Developer Relations
Criterion Software
www.csl.com

RE: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Ivan-Assen I. <as...@ha...>]

>   I've thought a bit abut this for an (amateur)
> project I'm about to start. I came to the conclusion
> that I will store the tiles as a simple mesh, then
> render a tileset at the start of a level/room or if
> the resolution changes. Nice and cacheable (especially
> on a PC where you can dump it to disk afterwards).

So, it's like, enjoy the problems both from 3D and tile technology,
and reap the benefits of neither ;-)

RE: [GD-General] Online collaboration site?

[Skelton, J. <jsk...@ea...>]

http://gforge.org <http://gforge.org/> /
=20
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Bay [mailto:bay...@ho...]=20
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:24 PM
To: Gam...@li...
Subject: [GD-General] Online collaboration site?



I'm working on a little game with a few other people who are not in my
town, and I'm wondering if there are any web sites that would assist in
remote artist/developer collaboration, and storage of game assets.

I'm thinking it would need to have remote storage (hard drive space),
some sort of rudimentary source control system, and document tracking
features. Basically, a central point that would serve as a hub to store
design docs, code files, art assests, schedules, etc.

It seems like there's got to be something out there, but I haven't had
any luck finding it after quite a bit of searching. Any ideas?

- Jason Bay



  _____ =20

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Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Brian H. <ho...@py...>]

>Another option is to have the artists make the tiles at like=
 2-3x
>size and then scale them down in software to the size required=
 to
>view them.

This balloons content size, but it might end up being the most 
reasonable approach.  The downside is that the scaled down images=
 
look significantly worse than hand tweaked ones.

>Another is to do each tile in 3d and let the 3d hardware deal=
 with
>it.

This is the easiest approach, except when you're doing a 2D=
 isometric 
game that runs completely in software =3D)

Brian

Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Brian H. <ho...@py...>]

>Had no clue it was that bad of a problem.  I doubt LCDs are so
>widely used to warrant creating a whole new resolution of art=
 for
>it, but you can't just ignore this problem.  

Tying together a thread here and on gamedevlists-windows, neither=
 
LCDs or multimon systems are super prevalent, but as time goes on=
 
they will be.

Apple is pretty much pushing LCDs exclusively for their computers=
 
now, including the iMacs (15" and 17" widescreen LCD) and their=
 17", 
20", 23" and 24" Cinema Displays.

In addition, notebooks are becoming more popular.  The Apple 
notebooks and some PC notebooks have widescreen LCDs (1280x864 I=
 
believe on the TiBook 15"; 1600x1024 or something similar on some=
 PC 
notebooks I've seen).

Monitors have a cap on usable size before they're too large, and=
 at 
that point for people that need multiple monitors (which is more=
 
people than you'd imagine) the incremental cost is justified.  
Especially given that you can find $75 graphics cards with dual 
outputs, and a second 17" CRT is only $150.  For $225 someone can=
 go 
multimon -- even cheaper if they get a $25 PCI graphics card to=
 use 
with their existing one.

And to show even more synchronicity, a lot notebooks happen to=
 have a 
second video out to run dual mon.  I know the Dell Inspiron and=
 Apple 
TiBooks have this feature.

So it's not a huge problem right now, but both of these are=
 growing 
problems.  In the case of LCDs, they'll probably supplant CRTs 
completely within about 5 years.  15" LCDs are down to < $300 and=
 
prices will only drop.

Brian

Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Ray <ra...@gu...>]

I think another option is to just have a black border around your tiled area to fit it to whatever res you're in.
Of course that wastes a fair amount of screenspace.

Another option is to have the artists make the tiles at like 2-3x size and then scale them down in software to the size required 
to view them.

Another is to do each tile in 3d and let the 3d hardware deal with it.

Sorry if any of these ahve already been discussed.

- Ray

Brian Hook wrote:
> You know, a whole book could be written about dealing with multiple 
> screen resolutions...

Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Tom S. <to...@pi...>]

> From: "Brian Hook" <ho...@py...>

> That is the gist of it.  Running at a resolution other than the
> native LCD resolution looks really bad -- not in a "this is kinda
> crappy" way, but in a "this is pretty damned illegible" kind of way.
> So just going fullscreen is actually worse than running windowed.  I
> tried playing Homeworld the other day, and it has a cap of 1024x768.
> When I tried to run it, I pretty much couldn't read the menus on my
> Viewsonic VA800.

    Had no clue it was that bad of a problem.  I doubt LCDs are so widely
used to warrant creating a whole new resolution of art for it, but you can't
just ignore this problem.  I don't see a solution better than your current
plan to center the scene.  Maybe you can make use of the borders in some
kind of useful way like moving hud elements into that space or just do
something decorative.

    Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hook" <ho...@py...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)


>Ok i see.  So what is the advantage of going to a higher resolution
>on a 2d game which has fixed resolution art to begin with?  Is is
>just the artifacts with LCD monitors?  Sorry for all the questions,
>but i'm interested. =)

That is the gist of it.  Running at a resolution other than the
native LCD resolution looks really bad -- not in a "this is kinda
crappy" way, but in a "this is pretty damned illegible" kind of way.
So just going fullscreen is actually worse than running windowed.  I
tried playing Homeworld the other day, and it has a cap of 1024x768.
When I tried to run it, I pretty much couldn't read the menus on my
Viewsonic VA800.

So if you make a game at higher resolutions, you're now doing some
really weird supersampling that's completely wrong and looks like
crap.  Probably the worst case I can envision is what we're trying to
do: 1024x768 on a 1280x1024 LCD, which looks WAY worse than a 640x480
game on a 1280x1024 LCD.

Brian





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Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Brian H. <ho...@py...>]

>Ok i see.  So what is the advantage of going to a higher=
 resolution
>on a 2d game which has fixed resolution art to begin with?  Is=
 is
>just the artifacts with LCD monitors?  Sorry for all the=
 questions,
>but i'm interested. =3D)

That is the gist of it.  Running at a resolution other than the 
native LCD resolution looks really bad -- not in a "this is kinda=
 
crappy" way, but in a "this is pretty damned illegible" kind of=
 way.  
So just going fullscreen is actually worse than running windowed.=
  I 
tried playing Homeworld the other day, and it has a cap of=
 1024x768.  
When I tried to run it, I pretty much couldn't read the menus on=
 my 
Viewsonic VA800.

So if you make a game at higher resolutions, you're now doing=
 some 
really weird supersampling that's completely wrong and looks like=
 
crap.  Probably the worst case I can envision is what we're=
 trying to 
do: 1024x768 on a 1280x1024 LCD, which looks WAY worse than a=
 640x480 
game on a 1280x1024 LCD.

Brian

Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Tom S. <to...@pi...>]

> From: "Brian Hook" <ho...@py...>

> or you can try to scale up your artwork to match, which
> will obviate any advantage of going to a higher resolution.

    Ok i see.  So what is the advantage of going to a higher resolution on a
2d game which has fixed resolution art to begin with?  Is is just the
artifacts with LCD monitors?  Sorry for all the questions, but i'm
interested. =)

    Tom

RE: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Greg S. <gr...@st...>]

You could create art work for each resolution that you're supporting - for
example, appropriate sized tiles that maintain your ratio for 800x600,
1024x768, and 1600x1200, then limit the screen resolutions to those values.
Sort of sprite based LOD.  It's more art time, but probably not TOO much
more as I imagine most of the source material is high-res renders anyways.

Barring that, I think the only other viable solution is to show more tiles
on screen.  You're not going to ever get any more detail out of them by
blowing them up (arguably less, thanks to filtering), so why not just show
more?  That leaves it up to the user - if they're squinting to see
something, they'll bump the res back down to the default.  Sure it could
screw up balance - but if the game is designed for a certain resolution,
only those who bump it up are going to get the advantage.  And if seeing a
few extra tiles is so important to someone who is competing, they're going
to know about and take advantage of the higher screen res anyways.  Some
pretty popular games have successfully taken this approach, including Age of
Empire/Kings.

-----Original Message-----
From: gam...@li...
[mailto:gam...@li...]On Behalf Of
Brian Hook
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 5:22 PM
To: gam...@li...
Subject: Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)


>I'm confused... isn't the problem different aspect ratios?

That can be a problem, but I'm not even looking that far ahead.

>I don't
>see how different resolutions from your target resolution with the
>same aspect ratio are a problem.

If you design your artwork as a 32x32 titles, then your game is
predicated upon, say, 15x10 tiles in your play area if you designed
it around 640x480.

Now you try to run at 1024x768.  You can either fit more tiles on the
screen (but note that they'll be much smaller and harder to
identify), which can screw up play balance, or you can try to scale
up your artwork to match, which will obviate any advantage of going
to a higher resolution.

The typical solution is just to force things into 640x480 mode, but
on an LCD monitor the interpolation artifacts are so severe that this
isn't really a tenable solution either.

Brian




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Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Brian H. <ho...@py...>]

>I'm confused... isn't the problem different aspect ratios?  

That can be a problem, but I'm not even looking that far ahead.

>I don't
>see how different resolutions from your target resolution with=
 the
>same aspect ratio are a problem.  

If you design your artwork as a 32x32 titles, then your game is 
predicated upon, say, 15x10 tiles in your play area if you=
 designed 
it around 640x480.

Now you try to run at 1024x768.  You can either fit more tiles on=
 the 
screen (but note that they'll be much smaller and harder to 
identify), which can screw up play balance, or you can try to=
 scale 
up your artwork to match, which will obviate any advantage of=
 going 
to a higher resolution.

The typical solution is just to force things into 640x480 mode,=
 but 
on an LCD monitor the interpolation artifacts are so severe that=
 this 
isn't really a tenable solution either.

Brian

Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Tom S. <to...@pi...>]

> So what I've thought about is forcing 1024x768, and just centering on
> systems that are running at a higher resolution, and possibly
> allowing an override.

    I'm confused... isn't the problem different aspect ratios?  I don't see
how different resolutions from your target resolution with the same aspect
ratio are a problem.  Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hook" <ho...@py...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 1:01 PM
Subject: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)


You know, a whole book could be written about dealing with multiple
screen resolutions...

Handling text seems easy enough if you use something like FreeType.
Handling 3D stuff is obviously easy enough as well.  The GUI
components can be handled either by drawing them vector style or by
having multiple resolutions for your components.

What doesn't scale well, unfortunately, are tile graphics, be they
isometric or just good old 2D grids.  If your artists makes a set of
32x16 tiles designed for 640x480, then going to other resolutions is
going to be problematic.

For our lower end games it's reasonable to just choose a resolution
and say "Hey, deal with it".

The problem is that LCDs pretty much blow this to hell.  If you force
1024x768 on a 1280x1024 LCD, the interpolation artifacts can be
extremely jarring, bad enough that a game with significant text isn't
playable (at least, to me).

So what I've thought about is forcing 1024x768, and just centering on
systems that are running at a higher resolution, and possibly
allowing an override.

Multi-monitor can really blow this to hell though, because there are
several distinct versions available and all have different semantics.
 Doing something naively like simply centering a 1024x768 window is
very wrong when that window straddles both monitors; but on other
multi-mon configurations it won't straddle both, etc.

Brian




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Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[<_da...@ya...>]

 --- Brian Hook <ho...@py...> wrote: 
> You know, 
> What doesn't scale well, unfortunately, are tile
> graphics, be they
> isometric or just good old 2D grids.  If your
> artists makes a set of
> 32x16 tiles designed for 640x480, then going to
> other resolutions is
> going to be problematic.

  I've thought a bit abut this for an (amateur)
project I'm about to start. I came to the conclusion
that I will store the tiles as a simple mesh, then
render a tileset at the start of a level/room or if
the resolution changes. Nice and cacheable (especially
on a PC where you can dump it to disk afterwards).

> Brian

Dan (Out of lurk-mode)

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Re: [GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Ben H. <cr...@ca...>]

>You know, a whole book could be written about dealing with=
 multiple
>screen resolutions...
>
>Handling text seems easy enough if you use something like=
 FreeType.
> Handling 3D stuff is obviously easy enough as well.  The GUI
>components can be handled either by drawing them vector style or=
 by
>having multiple resolutions for your components.
>
>What doesn't scale well, unfortunately, are tile graphics, be=
 they
>isometric or just good old 2D grids.  If your artists makes a=
 set of
> 32x16 tiles designed for 640x480, then going to other=
 resolutions
>is going to be problematic.

Most games I can think of simply show more of the surrounding=
 area at 
bigger resolutions, which neatly sidesteps the problem.

Admittedly, that does give the higher-end machines an advantage,=
 but 
they already have an advantage because they're less likely to=
 suffer 
from jerk-o-vision.

[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org ]

[GD-General] More screen res love (tile graphics)

[Brian H. <ho...@py...>]

You know, a whole book could be written about dealing with=
 multiple 
screen resolutions...

Handling text seems easy enough if you use something like=
 FreeType.  
Handling 3D stuff is obviously easy enough as well.  The GUI 
components can be handled either by drawing them vector style or=
 by 
having multiple resolutions for your components.

What doesn't scale well, unfortunately, are tile graphics, be=
 they 
isometric or just good old 2D grids.  If your artists makes a set=
 of 
32x16 tiles designed for 640x480, then going to other resolutions=
 is 
going to be problematic.

For our lower end games it's reasonable to just choose a=
 resolution 
and say "Hey, deal with it".  

The problem is that LCDs pretty much blow this to hell.  If you=
 force 
1024x768 on a 1280x1024 LCD, the interpolation artifacts can be 
extremely jarring, bad enough that a game with significant text=
 isn't 
playable (at least, to me).

So what I've thought about is forcing 1024x768, and just=
 centering on 
systems that are running at a higher resolution, and possibly 
allowing an override.

Multi-monitor can really blow this to hell though, because there=
 are 
several distinct versions available and all have different=
 semantics. 
 Doing something naively like simply centering a 1024x768 window=
 is 
very wrong when that window straddles both monitors; but on other=
 
multi-mon configurations it won't straddle both, etc.

Brian

Re: [GD-General] FreeType

[Adrian C. <ce...@ce...>]

We've implemented on-the-fly font rendering to a texture using FreeType in
our engine and it works very well. The API is also very easy to use and well
documented.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hook" <ho...@py...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:24 PM
Subject: [GD-General] FreeType


Any opinions on using FreeType for in-game fonts?  This would seem
(in theory) to be one way to handle part of the problems with
interfaces and screen resolution.

I've looked over the docs and API, and so far it looks pretty solid.
The hardest problem is finding a font you can redistribute, but there
are lots of places that will license decent fonts for a fairly small
amount of money ($30).

This just seems much easier than forcing artists to make new fonts
from scratch for every game and/or screen resolution.

Brian




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