gamedevlists-general — List for discussing general game development issues

[GD-General] Pelvis transformation during animation

[pontus b. <her...@ho...>]

Hi,
=20
I have encountered an issue that has been a hassle for my current game proj=
ect as well as for previous ones and I'd like to hear your take on it.
=20
The issue surrounds transforming i.e. rotating and translating the pelvis j=
oint during animation. We are creating a fighting game where our artists wo=
uld like to be able to translate and rotate the entire character in a non-l=
inear fashion for some animation (say an attack where the character turns a=
round and moves forward).
=20
My first approach to this was to let the transformation be part of pelvis b=
ut this causes an issue due to hardware skinning since the world position a=
nd orientation in game logic won't incorporate that particular transformati=
on seeing as how it is added in the vertex shader.
=20
Next I tried to extract the transformations into separate rotations and tra=
nsformations for each key frame and just add the difference between key fra=
mes to world position and orientation. This solution was flawed because it =
also extracts the pelvis translation on the Y axis and adds that, making th=
e character float upwards. I guess I could keep working on this solution bu=
t it seems as a bad way to go, do you guys have a better idea or perhaps a =
standardized way to do this?
=20
Regards,
=20
Pontus Birgersson=20
Shortfuse entertainment
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/=

Re: [GD-General] Infrastructure for Distributed Development

[Jamie F. <ja...@qu...>]

speedy wrote:
> Hello gamedevlists-general crew,
> 
>       my experience with SVN performance - on recent 1.4.3+ versions:
> 
>       * linux based svnserve server runs great, except for
>       the checkout which is a pure CPU hog. If you have strong CPU
>       on the server (unlike I here O:) you should not notice the
>       slowness even if multiple users hit it. Log file generation
>       should be better with 1.4.x compared to 1.3 and earlier. [Jamie,
>       I'm curious which server version are you using and how many
>       history revisions are there? :)]

I _think_ we're still using 1.2.1 on the server; we're looking forward 
to better branch management with 1.5. We have 45566 revisions.

Jamie

Re: [GD-General] Infrastructure for Distributed Development

[speedy <sp...@3d...>]

Hello gamedevlists-general crew,

      my experience with SVN performance - on recent 1.4.3+ versions:

      * linux based svnserve server runs great, except for
      the checkout which is a pure CPU hog. If you have strong CPU
      on the server (unlike I here O:) you should not notice the
      slowness even if multiple users hit it. Log file generation
      should be better with 1.4.x compared to 1.3 and earlier. [Jamie,
      I'm curious which server version are you using and how many
      history revisions are there? :)]
      
      * linux clients have no performance problems even with huge
      (multi GB binary assets, 10k+ folders) repositories
      
      * windows clients have problems with working copy folder count
      - after some number, all the temporary lock files hit the HDD,
      stalling the client process and the whole system. [If anyone
      is interested in helping fix that, I've posted a detailed bug report
      / analysis to the SVN mail-lists, but I haven't had enough spare
      time to fix it yet]

      For the next project I'll reconsider using SVN and intend to
      test a few alternatives, namely - SVK, mercurial and git.
      
      Hope this was helpfull. Cheers! :)
      
Sunday, October 21, 2007, 1:10:24 PM, you wrote:

JF> Chris Raine wrote:
>> One big downside is speed - subversion gets very slow as soon as the
>> repositories grow in the number of files/directories.

JF> I'd like to dispute this claim. Our repository is pretty huge (roughly
JF> 10 years development with a team of up to about 10 people on the code 
JF> side), and speed is just fine for almost all operations. The one slow 
JF> operation is checking out the repository... and log generation when you
JF> have that much history!

JF> Jamie

>> But before spending a lot of personal time and personal effort into this
>> solution, I wanted to ask around if somebody has a more efficient, or
>> simpler solution. Maybe I intend to tackle the problem from a too
>> complex perspective ( especially considering this is a spare-time
>> project ), or maybe there is a open-source/free product out there that
>> already does what we need, and I simply missed it ... Any
>> comments/experience/suggestions?
>> 
>> regards and thanks in advance, 
>> Chris Raine


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-- 
Best regards,
 speedy                            mailto:sp...@3d...

Re: [GD-General] Infrastructure for Distributed Development

[Jamie F. <ja...@qu...>]

Chris Raine wrote:
> One big downside is speed - subversion gets very slow as soon as the
> repositories grow in the number of files/directories.

I'd like to dispute this claim. Our repository is pretty huge (roughly 
10 years development with a team of up to about 10 people on the code 
side), and speed is just fine for almost all operations. The one slow 
operation is checking out the repository... and log generation when you 
have that much history!

Jamie

> But before spending a lot of personal time and personal effort into this
> solution, I wanted to ask around if somebody has a more efficient, or
> simpler solution. Maybe I intend to tackle the problem from a too
> complex perspective ( especially considering this is a spare-time
> project ), or maybe there is a open-source/free product out there that
> already does what we need, and I simply missed it ... Any
> comments/experience/suggestions?
> 
> regards and thanks in advance, 
> Chris Raine

Re: [GD-General] Infrastructure for Distributed Development

[Dave B. <bo...@au...>]

  Before you commit to subversion, you may want to take a look at Mercurial
or Git.  Personally I prefer Mercurial over Git (git's windows support is
still in its infancy).   Both are based on distributed models for source
control.  Mercurial can easily be added into other tools using scripting or
other methods.   They solve a lot of the issues of Subversion, and are quite
fast.   They are also free.

-Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: gam...@li...
[mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of
Chris Raine
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 5:24 AM
To: gam...@li...
Cc: Dornbusch Lutz
Subject: [GD-General] Infrastructure for Distributed Development

Hi, 

a few former colleagues and I have committed ourselves to work on a pet
project in our spare time. Now, as we are spread out all over Europe, we
somehow need an infrastructure that aids(not hinders) us in this
distributed development effort, specifically regarding game assets. 

As I am currently developing with subversion as a version control
backend, and for the fact that you can integrate subversion
functionality into your program, I was thinking we might as well go for
subversion as a data-storage backend. 

This comes with a few constraints, many consequences and a lot of
decision-making beforehand ( locking vs. conflicts, binary vs. ascii,
etc.. ), but with the ability to embed subversion directly into your
asset-management, you can probably build a version-controlled
asset-management application that might hide many if not all of the
usage complexities of subversion from non-programmers ( explaining how
to "resolve a conflict in an xml-file" over a long distance phone call
is not an option ). 

One big downside is speed - subversion gets very slow as soon as the
repositories grow in the number of files/directories.

But before spending a lot of personal time and personal effort into this
solution, I wanted to ask around if somebody has a more efficient, or
simpler solution. Maybe I intend to tackle the problem from a too
complex perspective ( especially considering this is a spare-time
project ), or maybe there is a open-source/free product out there that
already does what we need, and I simply missed it ... Any
comments/experience/suggestions?

regards and thanks in advance, 
Chris Raine








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[GD-General] Infrastructure for Distributed Development

[Chris R. <c....@gm...>]

Hi, 

a few former colleagues and I have committed ourselves to work on a pet
project in our spare time. Now, as we are spread out all over Europe, we
somehow need an infrastructure that aids(not hinders) us in this
distributed development effort, specifically regarding game assets. 

As I am currently developing with subversion as a version control
backend, and for the fact that you can integrate subversion
functionality into your program, I was thinking we might as well go for
subversion as a data-storage backend. 

This comes with a few constraints, many consequences and a lot of
decision-making beforehand ( locking vs. conflicts, binary vs. ascii,
etc.. ), but with the ability to embed subversion directly into your
asset-management, you can probably build a version-controlled
asset-management application that might hide many if not all of the
usage complexities of subversion from non-programmers ( explaining how
to "resolve a conflict in an xml-file" over a long distance phone call
is not an option ). 

One big downside is speed - subversion gets very slow as soon as the
repositories grow in the number of files/directories.

But before spending a lot of personal time and personal effort into this
solution, I wanted to ask around if somebody has a more efficient, or
simpler solution. Maybe I intend to tackle the problem from a too
complex perspective ( especially considering this is a spare-time
project ), or maybe there is a open-source/free product out there that
already does what we need, and I simply missed it ... Any
comments/experience/suggestions?

regards and thanks in advance, 
Chris Raine

Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

[Jon W. <hp...@mi...>]

Ola Olsson wrote:
> Hm I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, perhaps it is "I don't know 
> of any such middleware", you seem to want to tell me to build it from 
> scratch using MFC or .NET when I'm asking for middleware?
>   

I guess what I'm saying is "view the .NET framework as middleware, 
because it has lots of the functions you're asking for already."

How much are you willing to pay?

Anyway, I agree that fluxfoundry is the only thing out there (other than 
general application frameworks) that comes close. If you try it, please 
let us know how it goes!

Cheers,

          / h+



-- 
-- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.

Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

[Peter S. <ps...@to...>]

Heya,
	Having worked around maya for a long time now, I have found it
to be great introductory tool for a polygon soup like approach to data
generation of level geometry. Maya may be quite useful for defining
specifically constrained segments and models. However, the overt freedom
in using maya can be a bane for engineering, especially when a game has
specific performance requirements. When this kind of situation arises,
it is preferred that a specific level editor be used. What we have done
before is to be able to import models created in maya into the level
specific editor. This provides a much safer approach for designers and
for level editors when building the game content.

Cheers,

Peter Suwara
TORUS
Senior Engineer=20

-----Original Message-----
From: gam...@li...
[mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of
Sylvain G. Vignaud
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2007 9:26 AM
To: gam...@li...
Subject: Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

Hi,

Usually Maya will do quite a good level editor.

Good things with Maya:
 * 80% of the work is already done,
 * quite sable, * artists and designers already know the tool,
 * one call create custom tools and interfaces using MEL,
 * one can have a realtime game-like rendering using CgFx/ColladaFx and
shaders.

The bad points being:
 * no immediate level testing, data has to be exported to game format (I
like using Collada + custom tools there) before being usable.
 * the rendering isn't exactly the same (no shadows for example),

From: Ola Olsson <ola...@gm...>
> [...]
> I've whipped up with a short list of desirable features (fairly
> random):* Interface to supply/get data base (.csv or XML or SQL or
> whatever)* Interface to supply/get meta data (for example constraints,

> tool tips, whatever).
> * Commands with Undo/Redo (preferably with a transaction mechanism,=20
> grouping commands that should be undone/redone together).
> * Ability to connect version control system.
> * Extensible menus.
> * Extensible views of the data (this includes 3D views).
> * Message pipe or other convenient way to communicate between=20
> different views/components/things.
> * Ability to script both GUI and behaviour (preferably C# or something

> sensible like that).
> * Docking windows framework.
> * Typed ID/Reference support, for linking  data fields to other=20
> things, bit special case perhaps, but it keeps cropping up.
> * Modular design, e.g. a set of libraries that can be used more or=20
> less independently.
> * Library of nifty widgets.


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Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

[Sylvain G. V. <vi...@ii...>]

Hi,

Usually Maya will do quite a good level editor.

Good things with Maya:
 * 80% of the work is already done,
 * quite sable, * artists and designers already know the tool,
 * one call create custom tools and interfaces using MEL,
 * one can have a realtime game-like rendering using CgFx/ColladaFx and
shaders.

The bad points being:
 * no immediate level testing, data has to be exported to game format (I
like using Collada + custom tools there) before being usable.
 * the rendering isn't exactly the same (no shadows for example),

From: Ola Olsson <ola...@gm...>
> [...]
> I've whipped up with a short list of desirable features (fairly 
> random):* Interface to supply/get data base (.csv or XML or SQL or 
> whatever)* Interface to supply/get meta data (for example 
> constraints, tool tips, 
> whatever).
> * Commands with Undo/Redo (preferably with a transaction mechanism, 
> grouping 
> commands that should be undone/redone together).
> * Ability to connect version control system.
> * Extensible menus.
> * Extensible views of the data (this includes 3D views).
> * Message pipe or other convenient way to communicate between 
> different 
> views/components/things.
> * Ability to script both GUI and behaviour (preferably C# or 
> something sensible like that).
> * Docking windows framework.
> * Typed ID/Reference support, for linking  data fields to other 
> things, bit 
> special case perhaps, but it keeps cropping up.
> * Modular design, e.g. a set of libraries that can be used more or 
> less 
> independently.
> * Library of nifty widgets.

Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

[Ola O. <ola...@gm...>]

Hm I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, perhaps it is "I don't know 
of any such middleware", you seem to want to tell me to build it from 
scratch using MFC or .NET when I'm asking for middleware?

I agree that tool development is a large part of the development time, which 
is again why I am interested in finding someone who has done part of the job 
already. You seem to be saying that people in my past don't take tools 
seriously enough (agree there!) but at the same time suggest that I "just" 
embed my "engine" in MFC or .NET. It doesn't make sense, there is no "just" 
about writing an IDE for your game.

Integration with a 3D renderer (doesn't neccesarily have to be the same as 
used in game) was just an example of something I want to be able to _do_ 
with it, not have provided out of the box.

Just to clear another thing up: I'm interested in editing the source data, 
which may or may not resemble the data at run-time, some things do some 
don't, but it doesn't matter. So to stress the point I want the editor to 
have NOTHING to do with ingame data representation, that should be prepared 
from source data by the pipeline, much like we don't usually edit object 
files as programmers, thats what compilers are for.

I've whipped up with a short list of desirable features (fairly random):
* Interface to supply/get data base (.csv or XML or SQL or whatever)
* Interface to supply/get meta data (for example constraints, tool tips, 
whatever).
* Commands with Undo/Redo (preferably with a transaction mechanism, grouping 
commands that should be undone/redone together).
* Ability to connect version control system.
* Extensible menus.
* Extensible views of the data (this includes 3D views).
* Message pipe or other convenient way to communicate between different 
views/components/things.
* Ability to script both GUI and behaviour (preferably C# or something 
sensible like that).
* Docking windows framework.
* Typed ID/Reference support, for linking  data fields to other things, bit 
special case perhaps, but it keeps cropping up.
* Modular design, e.g. a set of libraries that can be used more or less 
independently.
* Library of nifty widgets.

There is probably a lot more that a well-designed Api can provide, and I was 
hoping that there was some 3rdparty ppl out there who have such a thing up 
their sleeve, and some developers out here that have used it in their 
productions. So far the only thing like it seems to be fluxfoundry (or 
spielwerke or whatever it is really called), but I don't know of anyone 
who's used it.

Anything else out there?

cheers.
.ola

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Watte" <hp...@mi...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [GD-General] Game data editor


>
>
> Ola Olsson wrote:
>> So having seen this kind of system grow (often painfully) at a number of
>> companies and projects now I was wondering if there are any useful
>> middleware out there. I did get a pointer to
>> http://www.fluxfoundry.com/fluxfoundry.html from a reply off-list, which
>> seems like it could be that kind of thing, I've only had a very quick 
>> look
>> at it yet though.
>>
>
> If you want integration with a 3D scene renderer, then it is generally
> hard to make that generic, because your 3D renderer or scene graph
> likely looks different from any other 3D package out there. That's why
> those kinds of links typically are edited in the "world editor" that
> comes with the specific 3D package or game engine. Unreal has UnrealEd,
> Gamebryo has their editor, C4 has World Editor, Source has Hammer, etc.
>
> Fluxfoundry seems to appreciate this, too -- it's not an editor, it's a
> collection of libraries to build an editor. However, given that your
> game probably has special kinds of geometry and special kinds of
> properties, and hopefully your game package already supports ray casts
> and the like, it's unclear how much that would help, compared to just
> embedding your own engine in a GUI host. C#/.NET is great for this,
> although MFC or something similar would work well, too. Just make sure
> to plan for things like undo (by doing all operations through command
> objects) or property exposure (by building enumeration into your entity
> interfaces) up front.
>
> In my estimation, 60% of "building a game engine" is actually building
> the tools to allow building good games without too much friction. On top
> of that, you then have to build the game itself. If your previous
> studios have not taken this to heart, but instead just throw the junior
> engineer at "the tool," then of course it will be painful -- the process
> doesn't match the requirements.
>
> Cheers,
>
>             / h+
>
> -- 
> -- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.
>
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Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

[Jon W. <hp...@mi...>]

Ola Olsson wrote:
> So having seen this kind of system grow (often painfully) at a number of 
> companies and projects now I was wondering if there are any useful 
> middleware out there. I did get a pointer to 
> http://www.fluxfoundry.com/fluxfoundry.html from a reply off-list, which 
> seems like it could be that kind of thing, I've only had a very quick look 
> at it yet though.
>   

If you want integration with a 3D scene renderer, then it is generally 
hard to make that generic, because your 3D renderer or scene graph 
likely looks different from any other 3D package out there. That's why 
those kinds of links typically are edited in the "world editor" that 
comes with the specific 3D package or game engine. Unreal has UnrealEd, 
Gamebryo has their editor, C4 has World Editor, Source has Hammer, etc.

Fluxfoundry seems to appreciate this, too -- it's not an editor, it's a 
collection of libraries to build an editor. However, given that your 
game probably has special kinds of geometry and special kinds of 
properties, and hopefully your game package already supports ray casts 
and the like, it's unclear how much that would help, compared to just 
embedding your own engine in a GUI host. C#/.NET is great for this, 
although MFC or something similar would work well, too. Just make sure 
to plan for things like undo (by doing all operations through command 
objects) or property exposure (by building enumeration into your entity 
interfaces) up front.

In my estimation, 60% of "building a game engine" is actually building 
the tools to allow building good games without too much friction. On top 
of that, you then have to build the game itself. If your previous 
studios have not taken this to heart, but instead just throw the junior 
engineer at "the tool," then of course it will be painful -- the process 
doesn't match the requirements.

Cheers,

             / h+

-- 
-- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.

Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

[Ola O. <ola...@gm...>]

Yes, I realize that was a bit unclear, that is indeed what I intended.

Using excel seems all very well, if all you want is data input. However I 
guess my direction is more along that of a data IDE, so if you want to view 
items in a 3D view, perhaps to visually connect items (trigger opens _that_ 
door). There is usually other things that you want to do with this IDE, for 
example we have a remote console, as well as a dialog box for running the 
data conversion tools. I don't suppose this kind of stuff can be achieved 
using excel or axcess?

Will have to have a look at what InfoPath might be, but it sounds like it 
will be, perhaps not overkill, but too much killing on the sides at least... 
im sure it will integrate with outlook (shudder).

So having seen this kind of system grow (often painfully) at a number of 
companies and projects now I was wondering if there are any useful 
middleware out there. I did get a pointer to 
http://www.fluxfoundry.com/fluxfoundry.html from a reply off-list, which 
seems like it could be that kind of thing, I've only had a very quick look 
at it yet though.

cheers
.ola
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Watte" <hp...@mi...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [GD-General] Game data editor


> You are talking about building GUI tools for the data editing, right?
>
> I would suggest using a database tool of some sort (such as Access) if
> you need fancy forms. What we do is get away with Excel -- you can
> script and macro it to do all kinds of neat things (pop-ups, etc), and
> exporting to CSV is very simple in the end.
>
> There is also Microsoft InfoPath for workflow data capture and
> management, but I think that's overkill for this requirement.
>
> Cheers,
>
>          / h+
>
>
> Ola Olsson wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> It seems that every game I've worked on there is a lot of energy spent
>> on getting a GUI editor going for designers and others to handle the
>> input data of the game. Seeing as it is fairly similar stuff most of
>> the time I was wondering if there are any off-the-shelf products out
>> there that can do the job? Of course there are those that come with a
>> game engine, but I'm after stand alone tools or frameworks (unless the
>> tools associated with a given engine could be used in this way of 
>> course).
>>
>> Any pointers?
>>
>> cheers
>> .ola
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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>
> -- 
> -- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.
>
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Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

[Jon W. <hp...@mi...>]

You are talking about building GUI tools for the data editing, right?

I would suggest using a database tool of some sort (such as Access) if 
you need fancy forms. What we do is get away with Excel -- you can 
script and macro it to do all kinds of neat things (pop-ups, etc), and 
exporting to CSV is very simple in the end.

There is also Microsoft InfoPath for workflow data capture and 
management, but I think that's overkill for this requirement.

Cheers,

          / h+


Ola Olsson wrote:
> Hi!
>  
> It seems that every game I've worked on there is a lot of energy spent 
> on getting a GUI editor going for designers and others to handle the 
> input data of the game. Seeing as it is fairly similar stuff most of 
> the time I was wondering if there are any off-the-shelf products out 
> there that can do the job? Of course there are those that come with a 
> game engine, but I'm after stand alone tools or frameworks (unless the 
> tools associated with a given engine could be used in this way of course).
>  
> Any pointers?
>  
> cheers
> .ola
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Re: [GD-General] Game data editor

[Research (GameBrains) <res...@ga...>]

http://omegame.com/english/products/menus_master.php

http://www.anark.com/entertainment/gameface-features.html


On Sep 3, 2007, at 3:07 AM, Ola Olsson wrote:

> Hi!
>
> It seems that every game I've worked on there is a lot of energy  
> spent on getting a GUI editor going for designers and others to  
> handle the input data of the game. Seeing as it is fairly similar  
> stuff most of the time I was wondering if there are any off-the- 
> shelf products out there that can do the job? Of course there are  
> those that come with a game engine, but I'm after stand alone tools  
> or frameworks (unless the tools associated with a given engine  
> could be used in this way of course).
>
> Any pointers?
>
> cheers
> .ola
>
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[GD-General] Game data editor

[Ola O. <ola...@gm...>]

Hi!

It seems that every game I've worked on there is a lot of energy spent =
on getting a GUI editor going for designers and others to handle the =
input data of the game. Seeing as it is fairly similar stuff most of the =
time I was wondering if there are any off-the-shelf products out there =
that can do the job? Of course there are those that come with a game =
engine, but I'm after stand alone tools or frameworks (unless the tools =
associated with a given engine could be used in this way of course).

Any pointers?

cheers
.ola

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Jon W. <hp...@mi...>]

Daniel Renkel wrote:
> Adobe Photoshop has often broken File Format Filters - i've heard about some 
> BMP problems in CS, TGA problems in PS7 - so probably PNG is broken in CS3?
> Or probably it comes from Copy Protection and pirated versions?
>   

Given that this is the free trial downloaded from Adobe.com, that seems 
unlikely :-)

The specific files that show this problem turn out to be uncompressed 
PNG files generated by a specific tool, so I'm inclined to think that 
those files tickle this bug somehow. Frustrating.

Cheers,

             / h+


-- 
-- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Troy G. <tro...@gm...>]

> Adobe Photoshop has often broken File Format Filters - i've heard about some
> BMP problems in CS, TGA problems in PS7 - so probably PNG is broken in CS3?
> Or probably it comes from Copy Protection and pirated versions?

I've had no problems with the PNG file format in CS3... and I'd hope
no one would, as PNG's are used extensively in Flash CS3 (bitmap
format of choice)!

Jon, I'd investigate your setup... sounds like a bad issue. Did you
copy filters from a previous version, or install CS3 ontop of CS2,
etc?

Troy.

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Daniel R. <re...@ce...>]

Adobe Photoshop has often broken File Format Filters - i've heard about some 
BMP problems in CS, TGA problems in PS7 - so probably PNG is broken in CS3?
Or probably it comes from Copy Protection and pirated versions?

People typicalls fix it via copying file format filter files from 
older/newer Versions that work.

cheers,
  Daniel


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Watte" <hp...@mi...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question


> Yes, this seems to be happening only for PNGs that I open. New images
> have the filters enabled.
> Actually, if I create some new image, and then open a PNG, that PNG is
> fine. Mysterious.
>
> Cheers,
>
>             / h+
>
>
> Troy Gilbert wrote:
>>> 1) Open "something.png" which is a 32-bit image.
>>> 2) Select All.
>>> 3) Look in Filters menu, and notice that everything is blanked out
>>> except the "convert for smart filters" menu option.
>>>
>>
>> Then something's wrong with your copy of CS3 or your PNG. I follow the
>> exact same steps and get exactly what I expected: everything enabled.
>> If I change the image mode to indexed I get something similar (though
>> "convert to smart filters" is grayed out as well).
>>
>> When you say "Select All" do you mean literally CTRL+A (or the
>> equivalent from the selection menu)?
>>
>> If you create a new document are the filters available?
>>
>> Troy.
>>
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>>
>>
>
> -- 
> -- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.
>
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Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Jon W. <hp...@mi...>]

Yes, this seems to be happening only for PNGs that I open. New images 
have the filters enabled.
Actually, if I create some new image, and then open a PNG, that PNG is 
fine. Mysterious.

Cheers,

             / h+


Troy Gilbert wrote:
>> 1) Open "something.png" which is a 32-bit image.
>> 2) Select All.
>> 3) Look in Filters menu, and notice that everything is blanked out
>> except the "convert for smart filters" menu option.
>>     
>
> Then something's wrong with your copy of CS3 or your PNG. I follow the
> exact same steps and get exactly what I expected: everything enabled.
> If I change the image mode to indexed I get something similar (though
> "convert to smart filters" is grayed out as well).
>
> When you say "Select All" do you mean literally CTRL+A (or the
> equivalent from the selection menu)?
>
> If you create a new document are the filters available?
>
> Troy.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >>  http://get.splunk.com/
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
>
>
>   

-- 
-- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Troy G. <tro...@gm...>]

> 1) Open "something.png" which is a 32-bit image.
> 2) Select All.
> 3) Look in Filters menu, and notice that everything is blanked out
> except the "convert for smart filters" menu option.

Then something's wrong with your copy of CS3 or your PNG. I follow the
exact same steps and get exactly what I expected: everything enabled.
If I change the image mode to indexed I get something similar (though
"convert to smart filters" is grayed out as well).

When you say "Select All" do you mean literally CTRL+A (or the
equivalent from the selection menu)?

If you create a new document are the filters available?

Troy.

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Jon W. <hp...@mi...>]

Troy Gilbert wrote:
>
>> Is there some secret trick to getting the effects/filters to become
>> enabled without turning layers into Smart Objects, too?
>>     
>
> Definitely don't have to turn things into Smart Objects (which were
> added in CS2, or maybe CS, I believe) to get filters and effects.
> They'll work on any layer if its rasterized (not text, not
> paths/shapes), if your document is at least 16-bit (most filters don't
> work on palettized images, but many work on grayscale 8-bit).
>   


In CS3? Here's what I do:

1) Open "something.png" which is a 32-bit image.
2) Select All.
3) Look in Filters menu, and notice that everything is blanked out 
except the "convert for smart filters" menu option.

Really, I'm not feeling good about CS3 at this time.

Cheers,

          / h+


-- 
-- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Troy G. <tro...@gm...>]

> Thanks, that actually works. Talk about a hidden feature!

Not sure where or when I learned it, but its been in Photoshop for as
long as I've used it (v4 or v5). In fact, I didn't realize what you
were asking for earlier in the thread because I'd never done it
through a menu option! ;-)

> Is there some secret trick to getting the effects/filters to become
> enabled without turning layers into Smart Objects, too?

Definitely don't have to turn things into Smart Objects (which were
added in CS2, or maybe CS, I believe) to get filters and effects.
They'll work on any layer if its rasterized (not text, not
paths/shapes), if your document is at least 16-bit (most filters don't
work on palettized images, but many work on grayscale 8-bit).

Troy.

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Jon W. <hp...@mi...>]

Thanks, that actually works. Talk about a hidden feature!

Is there some secret trick to getting the effects/filters to become 
enabled without turning layers into Smart Objects, too?

Cheers,

          / h+


Richard Fabian wrote:
> just "ctrl-click" on the layer, that loads you a selection, then 
> create yourself whatever you need from it.
>

-- 
-- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Richard F. <ra...@gm...>]

just "ctrl-click" on the layer, that loads you a selection, then create
yourself whatever you need from it.

On 8/7/07, Jon Watte <hp...@mi...> wrote:
>
> Hoping this list is still alive -- my last message is from 11/20/06...
>
> I'm trying out the Photoshop CS3 version. It appears that useful
> functions, like "load selection from transparency" have disappeared. Is
> this another "TGA is all fuxxored" snafu? I can't find another way to do
> that.
>
> The reason is that I have a bunch of PNGs that contain mostly
> transparent alpha, but lots of useful color information in the color
> channels. It used to be simple to convert the transparency part to an
> alpha channel after opening in CS2, but I can't figure out how to do it
> in CS3. Any help?
>
> Cheers,
>
>           / h+
>
>
> --
> -- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
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>



-- 
fabs();
Just because the world is full of people that think just like you, doesn't
mean the other ones can't be right.

Re: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question

[Daniel R. <re...@ce...>]

Hi hp,

the list is not dead - just, well ... :)

photoshop:
i can't believe that they removed that feature - it's more likely another UI 
change.
try the following: go into the channel tool (where you can select each 
channel separately) and klick on the alpha channel while holding ctrl (or 
was it shift? or apple key?) - this should create a selection (mask) that is 
exactly the values of the alpha channel.

cheers,
  daniel


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Watte" <hp...@mi...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:17 PM
Subject: [GD-General] Photoshop CS3 question


> Hoping this list is still alive -- my last message is from 11/20/06...
>
> I'm trying out the Photoshop CS3 version. It appears that useful
> functions, like "load selection from transparency" have disappeared. Is
> this another "TGA is all fuxxored" snafu? I can't find another way to do
> that.
>
> The reason is that I have a bunch of PNGs that contain mostly
> transparent alpha, but lots of useful color information in the color
> channels. It used to be simple to convert the transparency part to an
> alpha channel after opening in CS2, but I can't figure out how to do it
> in CS3. Any help?
>
> Cheers,
>
>          / h+
>
>
> -- 
> -- Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >>  http://get.splunk.com/
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> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
>