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From: <e_a...@ya...> - 2004-04-22 17:54:18
|
--- tweety <mi...@sy...> a écrit : > There's a flaw in your message. Having a low-level > language that can > pre-process lines (i.e. #define), you can write > macros to help designers do > what they want. BUT (and that's a big but) the > people who DO know to use c++ > have the possibility to use its flexibility, as > well. It's all about not > actively cutting the designer's hands if they can > use the language's > subtleties. > I disagree... The langage you give to the designers should not give them any more control that what they need. Else they _will_ start trying to do some low level things, and more than often they will fail. And you found yourself debugging _their_ code, just before a demo... I once heard a designer telling how his code ( high level )was optimised (what for ? ), and it scared me... Emmanuel Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Dialoguez en direct avec vos amis grâce à Yahoo! Messenger !Téléchargez Yahoo! Messenger sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com |
|
From: tweety <mi...@sy...> - 2004-04-21 19:37:20
|
There's a flaw in your message. Having a low-level language that can pre-process lines (i.e. #define), you can write macros to help designers = do what they want. BUT (and that's a big but) the people who DO know to use = c++ have the possibility to use its flexibility, as well. It's all about not actively cutting the designer's hands if they can use the language's subtleties. ---------------------------------- Peace and love, Tweety mi...@sy... - twe...@us... YahooID: tweety_04_01 =20 -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Lewin, Gareth Sent: April 21, 2004 11:49 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: RE: [GD-General] I just don't get it (Was: Scripting Systems) My thoughts....=20 Sudeki has proven to me that a low level scripting language is probably a bad idea. A lot of the problems on Sudeki are due to the designers not being as technical as we would have hoped, and from what I hear from people that are on the project now, it's still causing problems. So if you are targeting a designer, you really want to give them a higher level language. I would say that python and tcl and friends are even a bit too low level, but that's a gut feeling, not something from experience. I do know that when I worked on point and click adventures all those years ago, our extremely basic scripting language proved to be somewhat more of a success, with designers and "low level" (excuse the term, not sure what the best way to say it is) programmers doing a lot of work very easily. (I can go into more details if anyone is interested) I think the point I want to make is that scripting (for game play scripting) needs to be a sandbox, with not much power, basically holding the designer's hands. Right now if I had time, I would seriously consider trying to write a nice visual scripting language, something similar to what I heard XSI had a few years back. Note, if your scripting language is targeted at the same people that are writing c++ code, then by all means, go ahead with a low level language, but you have to then justify to yourself the use of a scripting language and not just plain code. The option of (for example) using python to prototype stuff and then porting what is needed to c++ in this scenario sounds like a good idea, and seems to be what a lot of people are doing. I can't wait for the next generation of consoles myself. Actually I mainly can't wait until the PS/2 stops being the bread and butter of game developers. Maybe then python will become a much more viable option... _________________________________________ Gareth Lewin - http://www.garethlewin.com "Facts are useless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts shmacts!" -- Homer Jay Simpson. -----Original Message----- From: tweety [mailto:mi...@sy...]=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:27 PM To: gam...@li... Subject: RE: [GD-General] I just don't get it (Was: Scripting Systems) this is a real thread ressurection, so be amazed! :)) Anyway, have any of you looked at http://www.angelcode.com/angelscript/ ? It's a byte-code interpreted scripting language that mimics c++, including classes and pointers (ok, so you can't move them, but you can use operator*() on them). It's portable, too. ---------------------------------- Peace and love, Tweety mi...@sy... - twe...@us... YahooID: tweety_04_01 -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Garett Bass Sent: February 4, 2004 8:05 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] I just don't get it (Was: Scripting Systems) Design folks, Ok, sorry to distract you all, but I just don't get it. After reading about Brian's problems with his scripts (and additionally having considered the problem at length without actually implementing any scripting system myself [except for my pitiful attempt at *writing* a scripting system for Deer Hunter 3, which we won't go into here for fear of grave embarrassment to myself]) it seems to me that "scripting" is being used to solve problems that could just as easily be solved by real code. Please enlighten my heathen mind: Why not simply compile your "scripts" into C/C++ .DLLs? These are the arguments I can vaguely recall for scripting, but I just don't think they hold up: 1. You don't have to compile scripts. I mean, ok, yeah, you gotta spend a few seconds on compiling some C/C++ into a .DLL (holy mother of poo!), but that serves a handy purpose: the compiler checks a variety of error and warning conditions that give you immediate feedback before you even try the script. And if it is so difficult to arrange a test case for the script's performance, are you really saving any time by not using a compiled language? 2. Scripting code is easier for designers to write. Um, really? Is Lua any easier to write than C? Ok, it's more verbose, but verbose just means more symbols to remember and use correctly. At work I'm stuck using Visual Basic, and while it is pretty handy for our problem domain (RAD w/ database and native GUI), it also really confuses some of my C++ instincts (and vice-versa). 3. The security of a sandbox. Ok, you've got me there, if your primary goal in scripting is to allow your fanbase to create new content without exposing other users to a variety of security scenarios, then I suppose you've found your holy grail. At the cost of 15x performance of course. I seem to recall the user community (PlanetQuake et al.) doing a pretty good job of filtering through the security of mods, in fact, I don't recall any news of blaster or welchia worms arising from Q2 mods, but you know, whatever keeps your paranoid heart skipping happily along, go for it. Even if it is a huge pain in the ass. All that aside, I do believe there are some C-syntax scripting languages out there these days (http://csl.sourceforge.net/csl.html). In the realm of other ideas, Battlefield 1942 uses a "scripting" language that is really more along the lines of a gameplay balancing dataset. You can code up new vehicles in plain text by combining engines and meshes and various attributes in new and interesting ways, but you can't really change the core gameplay mechanic. I'm just not significantly compelled to go beyond dynamic library-based extendability for the time being. However, I am significantly compelled to find out why the higher minds of my time think otherwise. Please excuse my dear Aunt Sally. Regards, Garett Bass gt...@st... ------------------------------------------------------- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1470&alloc_id=3D3638&op=3Dcli= ck _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id638&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 |
|
From: Lewin, G. <gl...@ea...> - 2004-04-21 15:49:10
|
My thoughts....=20 Sudeki has proven to me that a low level scripting language is probably a bad idea. A lot of the problems on Sudeki are due to the designers not being as technical as we would have hoped, and from what I hear from people that are on the project now, it's still causing problems. So if you are targeting a designer, you really want to give them a higher level language. I would say that python and tcl and friends are even a bit too low level, but that's a gut feeling, not something from experience. I do know that when I worked on point and click adventures all those years ago, our extremely basic scripting language proved to be somewhat more of a success, with designers and "low level" (excuse the term, not sure what the best way to say it is) programmers doing a lot of work very easily. (I can go into more details if anyone is interested) I think the point I want to make is that scripting (for game play scripting) needs to be a sandbox, with not much power, basically holding the designer's hands. Right now if I had time, I would seriously consider trying to write a nice visual scripting language, something similar to what I heard XSI had a few years back. Note, if your scripting language is targeted at the same people that are writing c++ code, then by all means, go ahead with a low level language, but you have to then justify to yourself the use of a scripting language and not just plain code. The option of (for example) using python to prototype stuff and then porting what is needed to c++ in this scenario sounds like a good idea, and seems to be what a lot of people are doing. I can't wait for the next generation of consoles myself. Actually I mainly can't wait until the PS/2 stops being the bread and butter of game developers. Maybe then python will become a much more viable option... _________________________________________ Gareth Lewin - http://www.garethlewin.com "Facts are useless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts shmacts!" -- Homer Jay Simpson. -----Original Message----- From: tweety [mailto:mi...@sy...]=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:27 PM To: gam...@li... Subject: RE: [GD-General] I just don't get it (Was: Scripting Systems) this is a real thread ressurection, so be amazed! :)) Anyway, have any of you looked at http://www.angelcode.com/angelscript/ ? It's a byte-code interpreted scripting language that mimics c++, including classes and pointers (ok, so you can't move them, but you can use operator*() on them). It's portable, too. ---------------------------------- Peace and love, Tweety mi...@sy... - twe...@us... YahooID: tweety_04_01 -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Garett Bass Sent: February 4, 2004 8:05 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] I just don't get it (Was: Scripting Systems) Design folks, Ok, sorry to distract you all, but I just don't get it. After reading about Brian's problems with his scripts (and additionally having considered the problem at length without actually implementing any scripting system myself [except for my pitiful attempt at *writing* a scripting system for Deer Hunter 3, which we won't go into here for fear of grave embarrassment to myself]) it seems to me that "scripting" is being used to solve problems that could just as easily be solved by real code. Please enlighten my heathen mind: Why not simply compile your "scripts" into C/C++ .DLLs? These are the arguments I can vaguely recall for scripting, but I just don't think they hold up: 1. You don't have to compile scripts. I mean, ok, yeah, you gotta spend a few seconds on compiling some C/C++ into a .DLL (holy mother of poo!), but that serves a handy purpose: the compiler checks a variety of error and warning conditions that give you immediate feedback before you even try the script. And if it is so difficult to arrange a test case for the script's performance, are you really saving any time by not using a compiled language? 2. Scripting code is easier for designers to write. Um, really? Is Lua any easier to write than C? Ok, it's more verbose, but verbose just means more symbols to remember and use correctly. At work I'm stuck using Visual Basic, and while it is pretty handy for our problem domain (RAD w/ database and native GUI), it also really confuses some of my C++ instincts (and vice-versa). 3. The security of a sandbox. Ok, you've got me there, if your primary goal in scripting is to allow your fanbase to create new content without exposing other users to a variety of security scenarios, then I suppose you've found your holy grail. At the cost of 15x performance of course. I seem to recall the user community (PlanetQuake et al.) doing a pretty good job of filtering through the security of mods, in fact, I don't recall any news of blaster or welchia worms arising from Q2 mods, but you know, whatever keeps your paranoid heart skipping happily along, go for it. Even if it is a huge pain in the ass. All that aside, I do believe there are some C-syntax scripting languages out there these days (http://csl.sourceforge.net/csl.html). In the realm of other ideas, Battlefield 1942 uses a "scripting" language that is really more along the lines of a gameplay balancing dataset. You can code up new vehicles in plain text by combining engines and meshes and various attributes in new and interesting ways, but you can't really change the core gameplay mechanic. I'm just not significantly compelled to go beyond dynamic library-based extendability for the time being. However, I am significantly compelled to find out why the higher minds of my time think otherwise. Please excuse my dear Aunt Sally. Regards, Garett Bass gt...@st... ------------------------------------------------------- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1470&alloc_id=3D3638&op=3Dcli= ck _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 |
|
From: tweety <mi...@sy...> - 2004-04-21 04:27:38
|
this is a real thread ressurection, so be amazed! :)) Anyway, have any of you looked at http://www.angelcode.com/angelscript/ ? It's a byte-code interpreted scripting language that mimics c++, including classes and pointers (ok, so you can't move them, but you can use operator*() on them). It's portable, too. ---------------------------------- Peace and love, Tweety mi...@sy... - twe...@us... YahooID: tweety_04_01 -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Garett Bass Sent: February 4, 2004 8:05 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] I just don't get it (Was: Scripting Systems) Design folks, Ok, sorry to distract you all, but I just don't get it. After reading about Brian's problems with his scripts (and additionally having considered the problem at length without actually implementing any scripting system myself [except for my pitiful attempt at *writing* a scripting system for Deer Hunter 3, which we won't go into here for fear of grave embarrassment to myself]) it seems to me that "scripting" is being used to solve problems that could just as easily be solved by real code. Please enlighten my heathen mind: Why not simply compile your "scripts" into C/C++ .DLLs? These are the arguments I can vaguely recall for scripting, but I just don't think they hold up: 1. You don't have to compile scripts. I mean, ok, yeah, you gotta spend a few seconds on compiling some C/C++ into a .DLL (holy mother of poo!), but that serves a handy purpose: the compiler checks a variety of error and warning conditions that give you immediate feedback before you even try the script. And if it is so difficult to arrange a test case for the script's performance, are you really saving any time by not using a compiled language? 2. Scripting code is easier for designers to write. Um, really? Is Lua any easier to write than C? Ok, it's more verbose, but verbose just means more symbols to remember and use correctly. At work I'm stuck using Visual Basic, and while it is pretty handy for our problem domain (RAD w/ database and native GUI), it also really confuses some of my C++ instincts (and vice-versa). 3. The security of a sandbox. Ok, you've got me there, if your primary goal in scripting is to allow your fanbase to create new content without exposing other users to a variety of security scenarios, then I suppose you've found your holy grail. At the cost of 15x performance of course. I seem to recall the user community (PlanetQuake et al.) doing a pretty good job of filtering through the security of mods, in fact, I don't recall any news of blaster or welchia worms arising from Q2 mods, but you know, whatever keeps your paranoid heart skipping happily along, go for it. Even if it is a huge pain in the ass. All that aside, I do believe there are some C-syntax scripting languages out there these days (http://csl.sourceforge.net/csl.html). In the realm of other ideas, Battlefield 1942 uses a "scripting" language that is really more along the lines of a gameplay balancing dataset. You can code up new vehicles in plain text by combining engines and meshes and various attributes in new and interesting ways, but you can't really change the core gameplay mechanic. I'm just not significantly compelled to go beyond dynamic library-based extendability for the time being. However, I am significantly compelled to find out why the higher minds of my time think otherwise. Please excuse my dear Aunt Sally. Regards, Garett Bass gt...@st... ------------------------------------------------------- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 |
|
From: J C L. <cl...@ka...> - 2004-04-15 03:09:01
|
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:12:48 -0700 Colin Fahey <cp...@ea...> wrote: > (3) What is the practical limit of UDP packets going across the wild > Internet, through dozens of routers with various policies? I've found that (older?) routers drop/not-reassemble UDP fragments often enough to be painful. As such I'd suggest doing periodic MTU discovery and keeping within that boundary. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. cl...@ka... He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. |
|
From: Nicolas R. <nic...@fr...> - 2004-04-13 07:18:54
|
> (1) What size limit on UDP packets is imposed by the > UDP specification? IP Packet maximal size is 65535. When removing IP/UDP headers (28 bytes), you get a max data size of 65507 bytes. > > (2) What size limit on UDP packets is imposed by the > operating system (Windows, Linux, ...), and how > can I query the OS for these limits? Don't know any OS "adding" limits on UDP packets. Wouldn't be compliant with standards. Some socket options do contain the max size for a given socket. > > (3) What is the practical limit of UDP packets going across the > wild Internet, through dozens of routers with various > policies? Strictly speaking of UDP packets, nothing else. Note however that when a packet size is greater than a given value (MTU), it might be fragmented into several packets and recombined later when possible. This can happen several time on each router. Usually that MTU is around 1500 bytes. It is strongly encouraged when communicating with another host to discover the MTU on the path. Though the path may change (and therefode MTU) it is unlikely to happen very often. Using MTU max size for packets will avoid adding extra IP/UDP headers during communication. > > (I know UDP is "unreliable", but I'd like to push UDP > packet size as high as possible without significantly > increasing the risk of UDP packets being quietly > dropped along the route to their destinations.) > Simple: If your packet is fragmented into 'n' smaller ones, the final packet will be lost 'n' times more often ! :) So basically, the chance to loose a packet is around (Size/MTU) bigger. Nicolas --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 09/04/2004 |
|
From: Brian H. <ho...@py...> - 2004-04-13 01:07:07
|
> Clearly UDP is great for many purposes, and TCP is great for many > other purposes. Assuming UDP is the right choice for a given > purpose, it is interesting to consider the actual constraints > imposed by the wild Internet. http://enet.cubik.org Brian |
|
From: Colin F. <cp...@ea...> - 2004-04-13 00:42:21
|
2004 April 12th Monday Well, I'll roughly summarize what I encountered while doing Google searching for answers, but perhaps people can add experiences or other hard facts to this thread. The limit for UDP data size is theoretically 65535 bytes, just based on the unsigned 16-bit UDP Message Length field in a UDP datagram. Then this is reduced by 28 bytes due to the fact that IP packets also must be a maximum of 65535 bytes, and require their own fields (headers and final CRC) -- reducing the theoretical UDP data size to 65507 bytes (a number quoted in various sources one can find via Google). However, according to one source, many OSes put an upper limit of 8192 bytes on the UDP receive buffer, which puts further limit on individual UDP packet sizes. (I assume this is after any packet re-assembly after potential fragmentation, since the receive buffer is "session layer"?) Other sources say that the 1526 byte-max Ethernet frame size (Ethernet's "Maximum Transmission Unit" (MTU) size) puts another de facto limit on UDP packet size -- since data larger than the 1500-byte payload limit for a single Ethernet frame is necessarily fragmented, and apparently some routing policies often don't call for working very hard to handle fragmented UDP packets. One source said that really the only way to be confident was to go all the way down to the minimum guaranteed UDP packet size handled by hosts complying with specs: 512 bytes. One source said the following (as a "moral"): "Avoid UDP if you really require reliable transmission of large messages, otherwise you end up reinventing TCP protocol". Clearly UDP is great for many purposes, and TCP is great for many other purposes. Assuming UDP is the right choice for a given purpose, it is interesting to consider the actual constraints imposed by the wild Internet. --- Colin cp...@ea... |
|
From: Colin F. <cp...@ea...> - 2004-04-12 23:10:21
|
2004 April 12th
Monday
(1) What size limit on UDP packets is imposed by the
UDP specification?
(2) What size limit on UDP packets is imposed by the
operating system (Windows, Linux, ...), and how
can I query the OS for these limits?
(3) What is the practical limit of UDP packets going across the
wild Internet, through dozens of routers with various
policies?
(I know UDP is "unreliable", but I'd like to push UDP
packet size as high as possible without significantly
increasing the risk of UDP packets being quietly
dropped along the route to their destinations.)
My ignorant guesses would be the following:
(1) Less than limit on payload part of single Ethernet
frame: (1526 Bytes - 26 Bytes) = 1500 Bytes (roughly)
(2) Same as (1)
(3) Same as (1)? Or perhaps much less (realistically speaking)?
--- Colin
cp...@ea...
|
|
From: Ivan-Assen I. <as...@ha...> - 2004-03-23 12:21:53
|
> The counter argument, obviously, is that because you know a lot about your > data, you may be able to design a better algorithm (better compression, > faster), than what you can obtain by using a general one. I would seek improvement in compression ratio by preprocessing the data I feed to zlib based on what I know about it (e.g. taking deltas), instead of implementing a new algorithm. It's hard to imagine a scenario where you can't afford the compression time used to transform through zlib data which has to be transmitted (at typical network speeds) or stored (at typical HDD speeds). |
|
From: <Per...@ep...> - 2004-03-23 12:10:47
|
In some cases, yes, I know exactly what data is to be transfered (like
comands etc.), and since they are small anyhow, I "only" encrypt =
them...
But when it comes to actual general data being transfered, I can not =
know
more than its data I want to transfered...
And therby I have landed on trying to use a general compress/uncompress
utility
** so far zlib seems to be faster than bz2 :-) **
Regards
Per
-----Original Message-----
From: ma...@ch... [mailto:ma...@ch...]
Sent: 23. mars 2004 13:01
To: 'gam...@li...'
Subject: RE: [GD-General] Compress/Uncompress
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Per L=F8vmo wrote:
> its dynamic data...
>=20
> will check zlib...=20
>=20
> I prefer not to make yet not an other compression utility (did that =
first,
> but realized soon that supporting it our self was not nescerry whan =
others
> had invented the "wheel" before:-)
The counter argument, obviously, is that because you know a lot about =
your=20
data, you may be able to design a better algorithm (better compression, =
faster), than what you can obtain by using a general one.
Both gz, and bz2 are quite general.
Mads
--=20
Mads Bondo Dydensborg. =
ma...@ch...
If you aim the gun at your foot and pull the trigger, it's UNIX's job =
to=20
ensure reliable delivery of the bullet to where you aimed the gun (in
this case, Mr. Foot).=20
- Terry Lambert, FreeBSD-Hackers mailing
list.
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1470&alloc_id=3D3638&op=3Dcl=
ick
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|
From: <ma...@ch...> - 2004-03-23 12:00:56
|
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Per Løvmo wrote:
> its dynamic data...
>
> will check zlib...
>
> I prefer not to make yet not an other compression utility (did that first,
> but realized soon that supporting it our self was not nescerry whan others
> had invented the "wheel" before:-)
The counter argument, obviously, is that because you know a lot about your
data, you may be able to design a better algorithm (better compression,
faster), than what you can obtain by using a general one.
Both gz, and bz2 are quite general.
Mads
--
Mads Bondo Dydensborg. ma...@ch...
If you aim the gun at your foot and pull the trigger, it's UNIX's job to
ensure reliable delivery of the bullet to where you aimed the gun (in
this case, Mr. Foot).
- Terry Lambert, FreeBSD-Hackers mailing list.
|
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From: <Per...@ep...> - 2004-03-23 11:15:09
|
its dynamic data... will check zlib... I prefer not to make yet not an other compression utility (did that first, but realized soon that supporting it our self was not nescerry whan others had invented the "wheel" before:-) Regards Per -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hook [mailto:ho...@py...] Sent: 22. mars 2004 16:59 To: gam...@li... Subject: Re: [GD-General] Compress/Uncompress > Do you know any compress/uncompress software that can be used ? What language? What kind of data? Dynamic or static data? Without knowing anything else, a lot of people use zlib to incorporate in-lined compression, yet others roll their own compressors (arithmetic or huffman), etc. Brian ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70&alloc_id638&op=click _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 |
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From: tweety <mi...@sy...> - 2004-03-22 23:33:30
|
Use gz instead of bz2. it's faster ---------------------------------- Peace and love, Tweety mi...@sy... - twe...@us... YahooID: tweety_04_01 =20 -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of = Per L=F8vmo Sent: March 22, 2004 2:05 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] Compress/Uncompress Hi all, don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but here goes.... We need compress/uncompress functionality in our server/client communication.=20 I have integrated the bz2 compress/uncompress functionality in our communication so far, and are currently satisfied with it. The bz2 is freeware. I have run a few test cases and the compressing rate is very = good, approx 20-25% better than WinZip .on the few files I tested. The problem = is that it is more tan 5 times slower than WinZip, i.e., the performance is = not acceptable (?). Do you know any compress/uncompress software that can be used ? What is the performance of the Java compress/uncompress methods compared with WinZip? Best Regards Per "Happiness is a temporary chemical imbalance of the true state of mind" ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux = tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. = Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1470&alloc_id=3D3638&op=3Dcli= ck _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 |
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From: <ma...@ch...> - 2004-03-22 16:34:17
|
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Per Løvmo wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but here goes....
>
> We need compress/uncompress functionality in our server/client
> communication.
The book "Small Memory Software", by James Noble and Charles Weir have
some good chapters on compression. You may find inspiration there.
Mads
--
Mads Bondo Dydensborg. ma...@ch...
Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your
life.
- Brooke Shields, during an interview to become spokesperson for a
federal anti-smoking campaign.
|
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From: Brian H. <ho...@py...> - 2004-03-22 16:01:25
|
> Do you know any compress/uncompress software that can be used ? What language? What kind of data? Dynamic or static data? Without knowing anything else, a lot of people use zlib to incorporate= in-lined compression, yet others roll their own compressors (arithmetic or= huffman), etc. Brian |
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From: <Per...@ep...> - 2004-03-22 07:04:39
|
Hi all, don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but here goes.... We need compress/uncompress functionality in our server/client communication. I have integrated the bz2 compress/uncompress functionality in our communication so far, and are currently satisfied with it. The bz2 is freeware. I have run a few test cases and the compressing rate is very good, approx 20-25% better than WinZip .on the few files I tested. The problem is that it is more tan 5 times slower than WinZip, i.e., the performance is not acceptable (?). Do you know any compress/uncompress software that can be used ? What is the performance of the Java compress/uncompress methods compared with WinZip? Best Regards Per "Happiness is a temporary chemical imbalance of the true state of mind" |
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From: Enno R. <en...@de...> - 2004-03-19 08:01:18
|
Tyler Ohlsen wrote: > Can anyone give me a definite answer on what massively multiplayer > online games use to store their terrains? Do they use standard > heightmaps? Heightmaps, for all the existing ones that I know of. Enno. -- It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them. -- P. G. Wodehouse, The Man Upstairs (1914) |
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From: Tyler O. <Xa...@ho...> - 2004-03-18 18:45:05
|
Can anyone give me a definite answer on what massively multiplayer online games use to store their terrains? Do they use standard heightmaps? The reason I chose MMOGs is because of the massive size of the terrain. Most MMOGs are made up of entire continents. That seems like a lot of data to store. Thanks, Tyler |
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From: ReJ <re...@sc...> - 2004-03-08 17:08:24
|
Hi Timo,
be aware of new and delete redefinition in Paul Nettle's Memory Manager:
mmgr.h
#define new (m_setOwner (__FILE__,__LINE__,__FUNCTION__),false) ? NULL : new
#define delete (m_setOwner (__FILE__,__LINE__,__FUNCTION__),false) ?
m_setOwner("",0,"") : delete
This may cause problems if you are defining your new/delete operators or
using libraries like std or boost.
There are some solutions discussed in thread topic, however it's not always
possible.
ReJ aka Renaldas Zioma
www.nesnausk.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Timo Heister" <ma...@ti...>
To: "Brett Bibby" <gam...@li...>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [GD-General] memory checking
> Hi Brett,
>
> what about Paul Nettle's free Memory Manager:
>
http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=12September2000-Presentin
gAMemoryManager&forum=askmid&id=-1
>
> it is:
> - free
> - simple to use (just put in the files into your project and include
> the header in all your files)
>
> Timo
>
> Brett wrote:
>
> > I recently ran into a serious memory bug I just can't track down and it
seems it's time to get some sort of memory debugging tool. Ideally it would
be available for Win32, PS2 and GameCube and work
> > with CodeWarrior, but just Windows would be acceptable. The only tools
I can find so far are BoundsChecker and Purify, but neither looks like it
will work with our CodeWarrior setup. I also tried
> > just using the crtdbg funcitons, but getting the MS libs into
CodeWarrior is proving problematic.
>
> > Does anybody know of any commercial product that might be useful? Are
there any standalone memory checkers out there? Anybody using BoundsChecker
that can comment on whether you must have Visual
> > Studio or not?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Brett
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
> administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
|
|
From: Enno R. <en...@de...> - 2004-03-05 18:24:24
|
Like the previous poster, I can highly recommend valgrind. We had some serious problems with memory bugs in our game, and tried tons of software - boundschecker, purify, insure++, heapagent - the works. In the end we rolled our own, only to find out about valgrind half a year later. Valgrind beats them all hands down. If you can reasonably port the important parts of your product to linux, go and make the effort. Enno. -- <Gibs> When you kill 6 people in Unreal Tournament it is "MonsterKill", In Quake3 it is "Excellent", in Counter-Strike it is "Kicked by console" |
|
From: Brett B. <res...@ga...> - 2004-03-05 11:04:43
|
Awesome! Thanks, got the demo and it looks just like what the doctor = ordered. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Timur Davidenko" <ti...@cr...> To: <gam...@li...> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: RE: [GD-General] memory checking > I recently used MemoryValidator programm, > It`s quite cool, http://softwareverify.com/memoryValidator/ > You can try their evaluation.. > Allows you to see a lot of things on how and when you allocate memory, = > memory leaks, memory allocations problems and so on.. I wonder why = it`s > not yet become popular enough, also feels way more lightweight then > boundschecker. >=20 > _____________________ > Timur Davidenko. > Crytek (www.crytek.com) >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Bibby [mailto:res...@ga...]=20 > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 4:34 AM > To: Gam...@li... > Subject: [GD-General] memory checking >=20 > I recently ran into a serious memory bug I just can't track down and = it > seems it's time to get some sort of memory debugging tool. Ideally it > would be available for Win32, PS2 and GameCube and work with > CodeWarrior, but just Windows would be acceptable. The only tools I = can > find so far are BoundsChecker and Purify, but neither looks like it = will > work with our CodeWarrior setup. I also tried just using the crtdbg > funcitons, but getting the MS libs into CodeWarrior is proving > problematic. >=20 > Does anybody know of any commercial product that might be useful? Are > there any standalone memory checkers out there? Anybody using > BoundsChecker that can comment on whether you must have Visual Studio = or > not? >=20 > Thanks, > Brett >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials > Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of > GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system > administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id638&op=3Dick > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 >=20 > ____ > This message contains confidential information and is intended only = for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should = not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the = sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake = and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be = guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be = intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or = contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any = errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a = result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please = request a hard-copy version. Crytek GmbH - http:// www.crytek.com >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials > Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of > GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system > administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id638&op=CCk > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 |
|
From: Timur D. <ti...@cr...> - 2004-03-05 10:30:15
|
I recently used MemoryValidator programm, It`s quite cool, http://softwareverify.com/memoryValidator/ You can try their evaluation.. Allows you to see a lot of things on how and when you allocate memory,=20 memory leaks, memory allocations problems and so on.. I wonder why it`s not yet become popular enough, also feels way more lightweight then boundschecker. _____________________ Timur Davidenko. Crytek (www.crytek.com) -----Original Message----- From: Brett Bibby [mailto:res...@ga...]=20 Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 4:34 AM To: Gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] memory checking I recently ran into a serious memory bug I just can't track down and it seems it's time to get some sort of memory debugging tool. Ideally it would be available for Win32, PS2 and GameCube and work with CodeWarrior, but just Windows would be acceptable. The only tools I can find so far are BoundsChecker and Purify, but neither looks like it will work with our CodeWarrior setup. I also tried just using the crtdbg funcitons, but getting the MS libs into CodeWarrior is proving problematic. Does anybody know of any commercial product that might be useful? Are there any standalone memory checkers out there? Anybody using BoundsChecker that can comment on whether you must have Visual Studio or not? Thanks, Brett ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id638&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 ____ This message contains confidential information and is intended only for = the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not = disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender = immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and = delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be = guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, = corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. = The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions = in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail = transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy = version. Crytek GmbH - http:// www.crytek.com |
|
From: Brett B. <res...@ga...> - 2004-03-05 07:59:53
|
Thanks for the note Timo. I had a quick look and it is certainly = something I'll look into. The problem with it specifically is that it's = C++ and I need something in C and highly portable and endian friendly = for PS2 and GameCube. We have a build of Doug Lea's malloc = (http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/) and I probably would be best served by = trying to put a memory leak debugger inside that. I'm not really = excited about switching memory managers until I can find this bug though = in case it magically disappears :) Cheers, Brett ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Timo Heister" <ma...@ti...> To: "Brett Bibby" <gam...@li...> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [GD-General] memory checking > Hi Brett, >=20 > what about Paul Nettle's free Memory Manager: > = http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=3D12September2000-Pres= entingAMemoryManager&forum=3Daskmid&id=3D-1 >=20 > it is: > - free > - simple to use (just put in the files into your project and include > the header in all your files) >=20 > Timo >=20 > Brett wrote: >=20 > > I recently ran into a serious memory bug I just can't track down and = it seems it's time to get some sort of memory debugging tool. Ideally it = would be available for Win32, PS2 and GameCube and work > > with CodeWarrior, but just Windows would be acceptable. The only = tools I can find so far are BoundsChecker and Purify, but neither looks = like it will work with our CodeWarrior setup. I also tried > > just using the crtdbg funcitons, but getting the MS libs into = CodeWarrior is proving problematic. >=20 > > Does anybody know of any commercial product that might be useful? = Are there any standalone memory checkers out there? Anybody using = BoundsChecker that can comment on whether you must have Visual > > Studio or not? >=20 > > Thanks, > > Brett >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials > Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of > GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system > = administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1470&alloc_id=3D3638&op=3Dcli= ck > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 |
|
From: Eero P. <epa...@ko...> - 2004-03-05 07:52:26
|
Mike Wuetherick wrote: > does anyone have any suggestions for open-source applications for > debugging memory leaks on windows? we can't afford the license fees for > bounds checker etc unfortunately. > I have previously used Boehm garbage collector, tuned for leak detection, but now I am mostly using Glowcode, which is not free but relatively low cost. I do have a major problem with Glowcode though, when combined with Nvidia geforce display adapter (and my OpenGL using program), it can freeze WindowsXP completely. Has anybody seen this, and been able to avoid it? I suspect that the Nvidia adapter maps out some registers which do not tolerate the scanning by the leak detector (?) (Apologies for being somewhat off topic, maybe this should be moved to gamedev-windows?) Eero |
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