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From: mike w. <mi...@ge...> - 2004-08-18 07:47:45
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we have used simkin (www.simkin.co.uk) for our scripting language for several years, it is a c-like language, very nice, simple to use and easily extensible. it is also cross-platform and can be integrated into many languages, including embedded devices and more. mike w www.realityfactory.ca Noel Llopis wrote: > Just curious, does anybody know of any commercial games (PC and console) using > off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python and Lua? (there are > plenty of those) > > Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or Javascript in games? > Thanks. > > > --Noel > Games from Within > http://www.gamesfromwithin.com |
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From: Thatcher U. <tu...@tu...> - 2004-08-17 16:12:03
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On Aug 16, 2004 at 04:21 -0700, Nick Trout wrote: > > Wow, it seems people do write games in Perl!! (no gfx!) > http://perl.about.com/od/games/ People apparently have written action games in Perl too -- e.g. Frozen Bubble, a pretty nice Bust-A-Move clone ( www.frozen-bubble.org ) -- Thatcher Ulrich http://tulrich.com |
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From: Thatcher U. <tu...@tu...> - 2004-08-17 15:55:46
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On Aug 16, 2004 at 08:14 -0700, Noel Llopis wrote: > > Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or Javascript in games? The Small site lists a couple of games, "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance" and "Champions of Norrath: Realms of Everquest". http://www.compuphase.com/small.htm -- Thatcher Ulrich http://tulrich.com |
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From: Chris J. <cj...@ob...> - 2004-08-17 03:02:07
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Yes, all AI, effects, etc. were hard-coded in C/C++. Small was used for in-game dialogs and cut-scenes (not the production pipeline). =20 Chris -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Dan Thompson Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:08 PM To: gam...@li... Subject: Re: [email] RE: [GD-General] Games using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python or Lua? My coworker meant to post this the last time small was mentioned, but apparently didn't get around to it. He worked at snowblind(Dark alliance 1, champions of norrath) in the engine (spell effects, boss code, etc) and said he never heard anything about small. "It was never used for any of the effects, spells, audio, weapons, or AI". If they used it at all he says, it was for the artists doing cutscenes or the production pipeline. I don't know if the original poster was specifically referring to in-game scripting or not, so I thought I'd throw this out. -Dan ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Chris Jones" <cj...@ob...> To: <gam...@li...> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: [email] RE: [GD-General] Games using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python or Lua? Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 1 & 2 on the Xbox and PS2 used Small. I presume Champions of Norrath for the PS2 did as well, since it is an evolution of the same engine. Chris -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Noel Llopis Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:15 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] Games using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python or Lua? Just curious, does anybody know of any commercial games (PC and console) using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python and Lua? (there are plenty of those) Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or Javascript in games? Thanks. --Noel Games from Within http://www.gamesfromwithin.com ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 |
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From: Dan T. <da...@ar...> - 2004-08-17 02:10:26
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My coworker meant to post this the last time small was mentioned, but apparently didn't get around to it. He worked at snowblind(Dark alliance 1, champions of norrath) in the engine (spell effects, boss code, etc) and said he never heard anything about small. "It was never used for any of the effects, spells, audio, weapons, or AI". If they used it at all he says, it was for the artists doing cutscenes or the production pipeline. I don't know if the original poster was specifically referring to in-game scripting or not, so I thought I'd throw this out. -Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Jones" <cj...@ob...> To: <gam...@li...> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: [email] RE: [GD-General] Games using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python or Lua? Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 1 & 2 on the Xbox and PS2 used Small. I presume Champions of Norrath for the PS2 did as well, since it is an evolution of the same engine. Chris -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Noel Llopis Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:15 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] Games using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python or Lua? Just curious, does anybody know of any commercial games (PC and console) using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python and Lua? (there are plenty of those) Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or Javascript in games? Thanks. --Noel Games from Within http://www.gamesfromwithin.com ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 |
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From: Chris J. <cj...@ob...> - 2004-08-17 01:44:08
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Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 1 & 2 on the Xbox and PS2 used Small. I presume Champions of Norrath for the PS2 did as well, since it is an evolution of the same engine. Chris -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of Noel Llopis Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:15 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: [GD-General] Games using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python or Lua? Just curious, does anybody know of any commercial games (PC and console) using=20 off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python and Lua? (there are=20 plenty of those) Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or Javascript in games? Thanks. =20 --Noel Games from Within http://www.gamesfromwithin.com ------------------------------------------------------- SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33 Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift. http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285 _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557 |
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From: <phi...@pl...> - 2004-08-17 00:27:11
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> Jak and Daxter uses a Lisp variant. There's a bit on GOAL in the J&D postmortem in GamaSutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20020710/white_01.htm ...note how GOAL appears in both the right and wrong sections. > Ratchet and Clank uses the same engine so I'd expect this to be the same. AFAIK, Insomniac uses some of Naughty Dogs rendering technology, but not GOAL. Cheers, Phil |
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From: Nick T. <ni...@ro...> - 2004-08-16 23:23:55
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> Just curious, does anybody know of any commercial games (PC and console) > using > off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python and Lua? (there are > plenty of those) >=20 > Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or Javascript in games? > Thanks. Jak and Daxter uses a Lisp variant. Ratchet and Clank uses the same engine so I'd expect this to be the same. ND mentioned that they had problems using it because noone knows Lisp in games (at GDC 2003). Of games I've come across, Quake and Neverwinter Nights (Bioware) use C/Small like syntax. Wow, it seems people do write games in Perl!! (no gfx!) http://perl.about.com/od/games/ Nick |
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From: <phi...@pl...> - 2004-08-16 20:57:24
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> Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or Javascript in games? Perl holds our pipeline together, but that's about it. Cheers, Phil |
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From: David H. <da...@su...> - 2004-08-16 16:49:39
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It depends on what you are using it for and who will write the scripts. Personally I've always thought that if I needed a scripting language I'd just use Small and hack it a little so that it could use a FuBi style interface to external compiled code. The only down side is that Small is C-like so programmers would be writing the scripts. That's how it should be IMO. Dave -] Just curious, does anybody know of any commercial games (PC=20 -] and console) using=20 -] off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python and Lua?=20 -] (there are=20 -] plenty of those) -]=20 -] Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or=20 -] Javascript in games? -] Thanks. -]=20 -] =20 -] --Noel -] Games from Within -] http://www.gamesfromwithin.com -]=20 |
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From: Noel L. <nl...@co...> - 2004-08-16 15:14:44
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Just curious, does anybody know of any commercial games (PC and console) using off-the-shelf scripting languages other than Python and Lua? (there are plenty of those) Specifically, is anybody using Small, Perl, Ruby, or Javascript in games? Thanks. --Noel Games from Within http://www.gamesfromwithin.com |
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From: Peter B. <fla...@gm...> - 2004-08-03 17:33:13
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there's falcon's eye the isometric nethack (not sure what the 'nethack public license' is tho'). Shots: http://www.hut.fi/~jtpelto2/nhfeatures.html dowload: http://falconseye.sourceforge.net/ On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:18:53 -0400, Brian Hook <ho...@bo...> wrote: > I'm trying to find some tiles to prototype a simple (2D) isometric > engine, and unlike sprites or 3D models it seems that there's a tough > time finding iso (2:1, diamond map) art work out there. > > Anyone know of a good resource (cheap commercial or free) suitable for > this? > > Thanks, > > Brian > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by OSTG. Have you noticed the changes on > Linux.com, ITManagersJournal and NewsForge in the past few weeks? Now, > one more big change to announce. We are now OSTG- Open Source Technology > Group. Come see the changes on the new OSTG site. www.ostg.com > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 > |
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From: Dale N. <dt...@tf...> - 2004-08-03 15:57:07
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Please remove this e-mail address from your list. Our son moved away = from home but we continue to receive e-mails. |
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From: Dale N. <dt...@tf...> - 2004-08-03 15:55:10
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Please remove dt...@tf... from your mailing list. Thanks |
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From: Brian H. <ho...@bo...> - 2004-08-03 00:19:03
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I'm trying to find some tiles to prototype a simple (2D) isometric engine, and unlike sprites or 3D models it seems that there's a tough time finding iso (2:1, diamond map) art work out there. Anyone know of a good resource (cheap commercial or free) suitable for this? Thanks, Brian |
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From: Alen L. <ale...@cr...> - 2004-07-27 06:11:22
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While on this topic.... I would like to point anyone using VS.NET (and intending on using it in the future), to take a look at the beta and visi= t the bug report page at http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/productfeedback/default.aspx . They still didn't fix a lot of bugs and design flaws impacting C++ development that they introduced when switching from VS6 to VS.NET and they are apparently eager to just ship it that way. If you are interested in improving the future version(s), check if bugs that annoy you are still there, and repo= rt them. Seems like most people there are VB and C# folks, and problems rela= ted to C++ are largely ignored... Alen ----- Original Message ----- From: "CAVEY GERARD" <GER...@sg...> To: <gam...@li...> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:29 Subject: RE: [GD-General] Faster and faster >You can try out the beta version of Visual Studio 2005 "Express" for fre= e: >http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/ >http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/visualc/default.aspx Ah thank you for the information, i don t know why but i always thought i= t was a private beta ... Regards. GC ************************************************************************* Ce message et toutes les pieces jointes (ci-apres le "message") sont confidentiels et etablis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite. Tout message electronique est susceptible d'alteration. SG Asset Management et ses filiales declinent toute responsabilite au tit= re de ce message s'il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. D=E9couvrez l'offre et les services de SG Asset Management sur le site www.sgam.fr ******** This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited. E-mails are susceptible to alteration. Neither SG Asset Management nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates sha= ll be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idG21&alloc_id=10040&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 |
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From: <ke...@dr...> - 2004-07-26 14:56:25
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From the FAQ: Does Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition include the "optimizing compiler" Yes, Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition includes the same core optimizing compiler that will be included with all other Visual Studio 2005 editions. It should be noted that some new expanded optimization features, including Profile Guided Optimizations, will be available only in the Professional and above editions of Visual Studio 2005. So it should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect. > You may not want to judge the performance of the C++ compiler based solely > on the "Express" version of Visual Studio 2005. I'm not sure that the same > C++ optimizer that's included in the more advanced versions made its way > into the the "Express" edition. > > .................Wayne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "CAVEY GERARD" <GER...@sg...> > To: <gam...@li...> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 6:29 AM > Subject: RE: [GD-General] Faster and faster > > >>You can try out the beta version of Visual Studio 2005 "Express" for >> free: >>http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/ >>http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/visualc/default.aspx > > Ah thank you for the information, i don t know why but i always thought it > was > a private beta ... > > Regards. > GC > > > ************************************************************************* > Ce message et toutes les pieces jointes (ci-apres le "message") sont > confidentiels et etablis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. > Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite. > Tout message electronique est susceptible d'alteration. > SG Asset Management et ses filiales declinent toute responsabilite au > titre > de ce message s'il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. > > Découvrez l'offre et les services de SG Asset Management sur le site > www.sgam.fr > > ******** > > This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and > intended solely for the addressees. > Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited. > E-mails are susceptible to alteration. > Neither SG Asset Management nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates > shall > be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. > > ************************************************************************* > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop > FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! > Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idG21&alloc_id040&op=ick > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop > FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! > Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=4721&alloc_id=10040&op=click > _______________________________________________ > Gamedevlists-general mailing list > Gam...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557 > |
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From: Wayne S. F. <WF...@Ju...> - 2004-07-26 12:24:47
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You may not want to judge the performance of the C++ compiler based solely
on the "Express" version of Visual Studio 2005. I'm not sure that the same
C++ optimizer that's included in the more advanced versions made its way
into the the "Express" edition.
.................Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "CAVEY GERARD" <GER...@sg...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: [GD-General] Faster and faster
>You can try out the beta version of Visual Studio 2005 "Express" for free:
>http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/
>http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/visualc/default.aspx
Ah thank you for the information, i don t know why but i always thought it
was
a private beta ...
Regards.
GC
*************************************************************************
Ce message et toutes les pieces jointes (ci-apres le "message") sont
confidentiels et etablis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires.
Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite.
Tout message electronique est susceptible d'alteration.
SG Asset Management et ses filiales declinent toute responsabilite au titre
de ce message s'il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie.
Découvrez l'offre et les services de SG Asset Management sur le site
www.sgam.fr
********
This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and
intended solely for the addressees.
Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited.
E-mails are susceptible to alteration.
Neither SG Asset Management nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates shall
be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified.
*************************************************************************
-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop
FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools!
Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today.
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From: CAVEY G. <GER...@sg...> - 2004-07-26 11:28:38
|
>You can try out the beta version of Visual Studio 2005 "Express" for = free: >http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/ >http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/visualc/default.aspx Ah thank you for the information, i don t know why but i always thought = it was a private beta ... Regards. GC ************************************************************************= * Ce message et toutes les pieces jointes (ci-apres le "message") sont confidentiels et etablis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite.=20 Tout message electronique est susceptible d'alteration.=20 SG Asset Management et ses filiales declinent toute responsabilite au = titre de ce message s'il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. D=E9couvrez l'offre et les services de SG Asset Management sur le site www.sgam.fr=20 ******** This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited.=20 E-mails are susceptible to alteration. =20 Neither SG Asset Management nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates = shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified.=20 ************************************************************************= * |
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From: Matthijs H. <mat...@al...> - 2004-07-26 08:52:08
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> I agree vc7.1 is giving us good results , and if rumors are true visual > studio 2005 (still beta) is even better. You can try out the beta version of Visual Studio 2005 "Express" for free: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/ http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/visualc/default.aspx -- Matthijs Hollemans www.compareandmerge.com |
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From: CAVEY G. <GER...@sg...> - 2004-07-26 08:14:51
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Thanks for your answer Brian >It has been my experience that the VC 7.1 compiler and the Intel compilers (any recent version) produce >great code I agree vc7.1 is giving us good results , and if rumors are true visual studio 2005 (still beta) is even better. >on an xGHz machine, the CPU isn't usually my bottleneck Well you re lucky.Assuming you re working on a "modern game "The maths running on CPU for IA pathfinding plus bones hierarchy concatenation plus physics (mainly) is often expensive... Correct me if i m wrong but most of us are limited because of the CPU .The GPU is almost never 100% used (in terms of geometry quantity). >The Intel Small Matrix Library (I believe it is freely available) has a very good C++ implementation of matrix >and vector math. You might want to look into it. Thanks , it seems a good alternative to D3DX maths lib .With the original AMD CPUs not supporting SSE and intel CPUs not supporting 3d now , the code path becomes more and more complex ... Writing assembly today is really too heavy :( GC. -----Message d'origine----- De : Bryan Wagstaff [mailto:br...@xm...] Envoye : lundi 26 juillet 2004 01:16 A : gam...@li... Objet : RE: [GD-General] Faster and faster Short answer: Speed is usually pretty good, but the only way to be certain on YOUR app is to test it yourself. Of course, on an xGHz machine, the CPU isn't usually my bottleneck. Longer responses below. -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of CAVEY GERARD Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:19 AM To: 'gam...@li...' Subject: [GD-General] Faster and faster Hi I would like hear someone s experience about INTEL compilers performance when targetting AMD cpus, without using SSE/SSE2. There have been several cross-CPU comparisons of compiled code, usually of specific benchmark programs (see Google). Sometimes one compiler wins, sometimes another. DDJ had an article (1-2 years ago) comparing Intel 7, GCC 3.2 or 3.3, VC6, 7, and 7.1 against a few others, but it wasn't cross-CPU. , although a few passes through the Intel compiler for profile-guided compiles usually tends to do (for me) a better job than the VC7.1 compiler; but it takes a long time to compile. I cannot recommend the older VC compilers, 7.0 or (shudder) 6.0. I've also used Metrowerks compilers, and in one instance where performance made a big difference, we released multiple binaries targeting various CPUs. Let the install program figure out which to install. Is it good enough ? I feel that the performance is 'good enough' in my cases. Usually (but not always) the differences are visible in my performance metric with little or no perceived difference to me. But you're writing a game. Every one of them is different. You probably have your own performance metric built in. Try it out for yourself, and look at the performance. Only you can decide it the performance is good enough, in your own specific program. While some key functions (dot ,cross products ,matrices maths...) can be written by hand , i would like to relay on a good compiler for the other things. The Intel Small Matrix Library (I believe it is freely available) has a very good C++ implementation of matrix and vector math. You might want to look into it. Since you are targeting AMD specifically, you should also test against the Metrowerks compiler. Assuming your code compiles cleanly already, it shouldn't be too hard to switch compilers. If it doesn't compile cleanly, you could be in for a hard time when changing compilers. In either event, you should go out and test them specifically on your own program. It shouldn't take more than two days, assuming your code compiles cleanly to begin with. If it doesn't, the flood of error messages will be helpful, since it will help you estimate how much time to add to the schedule in code cleanup. To save you five minutes, here are the URLs: Intel 30-day trial: http://www.intel.com/software/products/compilers/cwin/eval.htm <http://www.intel.com/software/products/compilers/cwin/eval.htm> Metrowerks 15-day trial: http://www.metrowerks.com/MW/download/request.asp?action=dl <http://www.metrowerks.com/MW/download/request.asp?action=dl&product=CWWin9> &product=CWWin9 bryanw. ************************************************************************* Ce message et toutes les pieces jointes (ci-apres le "message") sont confidentiels et etablis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite. Tout message electronique est susceptible d'alteration. SG Asset Management et ses filiales declinent toute responsabilite au titre de ce message s'il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Decouvrez l'offre et les services de SG Asset Management sur le site www.sgam.fr ******** This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited. E-mails are susceptible to alteration. Neither SG Asset Management nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. ************************************************************************* |
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From: Bryan W. <br...@xm...> - 2004-07-25 23:16:47
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Short answer: Speed is usually pretty good, but the only way to be = certain on YOUR app is to test it yourself. Of course, on an xGHz machine, the CPU = isn't usually my bottleneck. =20 Longer responses below. =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: gam...@li... [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of = CAVEY GERARD Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 8:19 AM To: 'gam...@li...' Subject: [GD-General] Faster and faster Hi I would like hear someone s experience about INTEL compilers=20 performance when targetting AMD cpus, without using SSE/SSE2.=20 There have been several cross-CPU comparisons of compiled code, usually = of specific benchmark programs (see Google). Sometimes one compiler wins, sometimes another. DDJ had an article (1-2 years ago) comparing Intel 7, = GCC 3.2 or 3.3, VC6, 7, and 7.1 against a few others, but it wasn't = cross-CPU. =20 =20 It has been my experience that the VC 7.1 compiler and the Intel = compilers (any recent version) produce great code, although a few passes through = the Intel compiler for profile-guided compiles usually tends to do (for me) = a better job than the VC7.1 compiler; but it takes a long time to compile. = I cannot recommend the older VC compilers, 7.0 or (shudder) 6.0. =20 I've also used Metrowerks compilers, and in one instance where = performance made a big difference, we released multiple binaries targeting various = CPUs. Let the install program figure out which to install. Is it good enough ?=20 I feel that the performance is 'good enough' in my cases. Usually (but = not always) the differences are visible in my performance metric with little = or no perceived difference to me. =20 But you're writing a game. Every one of them is different. =20 =20 You probably have your own performance metric built in. Try it out for yourself, and look at the performance. Only you can decide it the = performance is good enough, in your own specific program. =20 While some key functions (dot ,cross products ,matrices maths...) can = be written by hand , i would like to relay on a good compiler for the other things.=20 The Intel Small Matrix Library (I believe it is freely available) has a = very good C++ implementation of matrix and vector math. You might want to = look into it. =20 Since you are targeting AMD specifically, you should also test against = the Metrowerks compiler. Assuming your code compiles cleanly already, it shouldn't be too hard to switch compilers. If it doesn't compile = cleanly, you could be in for a hard time when changing compilers. In either event, = you should go out and test them specifically on your own program. It = shouldn't take more than two days, assuming your code compiles cleanly to begin = with. If it doesn't, the flood of error messages will be helpful, since it = will help you estimate how much time to add to the schedule in code cleanup. To save you five minutes, here are the URLs: Intel 30-day trial: http://www.intel.com/software/products/compilers/cwin/eval.htm=20 Metrowerks 15-day trial: http://www.metrowerks.com/MW/download/request.asp?action=3Ddl <http://www.metrowerks.com/MW/download/request.asp?action=3Ddl&product=3D= CWWin9> &product=3DCWWin9 bryanw. |
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From: Stefan B. <Ste...@di...> - 2004-07-25 17:34:36
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FWIW, I haven't found the Intel compilers to be any better than the = Microsoft compiler. The compilers are more than "good enough" for = writing all your code in. If you need to access low-level functionality = you can almost always do this using compiler intrinsics, so there's = rarely necessary to resort to inline or out-of-line assembly. =20 /Stefan ________________________________ From: gam...@li... on behalf of = CAVEY GERARD Sent: Thu 7/22/2004 4:18 PM To: 'gam...@li...' Subject: [GD-General] Faster and faster Hi I would like hear someone s experience about INTEL compilers=20 performance when targetting AMD cpus, without using SSE/SSE2. Is it good enough ? While some key functions (dot ,cross products ,matrices maths...) can be = written by hand , i would like to relay on a good compiler for the other things. Thanks for reading GC. *************************************************************************= Ce message et toutes les pieces jointes (ci-apres le "message") sont confidentiels et etablis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite.=20 Tout message electronique est susceptible d'alteration.=20 SG Asset Management et ses filiales declinent toute responsabilite au = titre de ce message s'il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. D=E9couvrez l'offre et les services de SG Asset Management sur le site = www.sgam.fr=20 ******** This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited.=20 E-mails are susceptible to alteration.=20 Neither SG Asset Management nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates = shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified.=20 *************************************************************************= |
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From: CAVEY G. <GER...@sg...> - 2004-07-22 14:17:35
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Hi I would like hear someone s experience about INTEL compilers=20 performance when targetting AMD cpus, without using SSE/SSE2. Is it good enough ? While some key functions (dot ,cross products ,matrices maths...) can = be written by hand , i would like to relay on a good compiler for the other things. Thanks for reading GC. ************************************************************************= * Ce message et toutes les pieces jointes (ci-apres le "message") sont confidentiels et etablis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite.=20 Tout message electronique est susceptible d'alteration.=20 SG Asset Management et ses filiales declinent toute responsabilite au = titre de ce message s'il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. D=E9couvrez l'offre et les services de SG Asset Management sur le site www.sgam.fr=20 ******** This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited.=20 E-mails are susceptible to alteration. =20 Neither SG Asset Management nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates = shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified.=20 ************************************************************************= * |
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From: Weeks, P. <pw...@ea...> - 2004-07-21 17:55:17
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I have to disagree. We hired a physics programmer for the last company I = worked at, and maybe we got lucky and found a great programmer, but he = was an excellent addition to our team and was easily "trained" as a = games programmer. Having someone that approachable and knowledgeable and = on site makes for a huge asset to a company. Not only do you have the = originator of the source, you have a valuable teaching/training aide if = you choose to use him/her as such. Having a specialized programmer also = means, as you put it, you get what you pay for. General license engines, = be it rendering or physics, a lot of times, do more than what you need. = So if you're doing a sports game, you don't need the same collision code = as a driving game, and it can be more easily specialized.=20 My two cents, but with the conversion rate, that's um 3.5 cents. Phil =20 _____ =20 From: Stefan Boberg = [mailto:gam...@li...] On Behalf Of = Stefan Boberg Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 9:31 AM To: gam...@li... Subject: RE: [GD-General] what you look for in a physics engine = coder...engine transaction =20 I wouldn't hire a physics programmer to write a next-generation = physics engine. I would hire a physics programmer to make use of a = middleware physics engine such as Meqon or Havok, since it would be near = impossible to compete with them by starting from scratch. Also it's not = clear what advantage you get from building your own. =20 As for prices of turnkey engines... It varies greatly, and it's = usually negotiable assuming the deal is interesting to the licensor. = Also, the price depends on how many SKUs you intend to produce. Nowadays = more and more middleware providers work exclusively with publishers, so = it may be difficult to even evaluate an engine without having a = publisher in the first place. =20 Physics engines range from $0 up to $200k, but again it's negotiable = and highly dependent on who you are, what you intend to do and who your = publisher is. The more capable products also cost more - you get what = you pay for not just in terms of functionality but also support (which = is crucial). =20 /Stefan =20 _____ =20 From: gam...@li... on behalf of = CAVEY GERARD Sent: Mon 7/19/2004 4:53 PM To: 'gam...@li...' Subject: [GD-General] what you look for in a physics engine = coder...engine transaction Hi My question is a bit OT but anyway ... when you give someone the job to write the next generation physics engine, what profiles do you look for?I m not sure a basic = engineer can fit the task. Any experience with it ? IMO nowadays we can no longer fake physics (for actions titles). Second OT question what could be the price of a "good enough" 3D engine = plus the surrouding tools + plugins for 3d apps? I heard the Quake3 engine cost was 500 000$ ,but this is (was ,domm3 is going to bury it ) a ground breaking technology i know ... And the price of a "good enough" physics engine? When you sell such a technology how does it work? Do you have to sell = some support, patchs,consulting ....? Thanks in advance GC. *************************************************************************= Ce message et toutes les pieces jointes (ci-apres le "message") sont confidentiels et etablis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute utilisation ou diffusion non autorisee est interdite. Tout message electronique est susceptible d'alteration. SG Asset Management et ses filiales declinent toute responsabilite au = titre de ce message s'il a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. D=E9couvrez l'offre et les services de SG Asset Management sur le site www.sgam.fr ******** This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited. E-mails are susceptible to alteration. =20 Neither SG Asset Management nor any of its subsidiaries or affiliates = shall be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. *************************************************************************= ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by BEA Weblogic Workshop FREE Java Enterprise J2EE developer tools! Get your free copy of BEA WebLogic Workshop 8.1 today. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idG21&alloc_id040&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ Gamedevlists-general mailing list Gam...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_idU7 |
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