fvwm-themes-devel — Developing FVWM Themes

Re: FVWM: FvwmButtons Icon change on button click

[Alex W. <aw...@pr...>]

Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't see how using $[FT_DATADIR] may a problem even if $FT_DATADIR
> is different within multiple installations.
> 
> I don't see why absolute path is needed, just use "Icon module/icon.png"
> as usual and it should work from any file in modules/ directory, I hope.
> 
> Regards,
> Mikhael.
> 

Okay you're correct. It does work on both accounts. I must have been
doing something wrong.

Sorry to have bothered you with this.

Alex
-- 
`When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, *for
free*".'
(By Linus Torvalds)

Re: FVWM: FvwmButtons Icon change on button click

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

On 22 Jan 2003 02:29:49 +1030, Alex Wallis wrote:
> 
> Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> > 
> > If you use 2.5.4+, you may do this, see the man page of FvwmButtons.
> > In short you should use:
> > 
> >   SendToModule FvwmButtons ChangeButton my_button Icon new_icon.png, ...
> > 
> > whenever you want to change an icon.
> 
> This works nice and smooth but (I think Mikhael once stated this in an
> earlier post) this relies on an absolute path. After some
> experimentation I found this to be true so I have been unable to
> concieve of a way to use this in fvwm-themes where the $FT_DATADIR will
> be different on different installations.
> 
> Is there any way around this yet?

I don't see how using $[FT_DATADIR] may a problem even if $FT_DATADIR
is different within multiple installations.

I don't see why absolute path is needed, just use "Icon module/icon.png"
as usual and it should work from any file in modules/ directory, I hope.

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: FVWM: FvwmButtons Icon change on button click

[Alex W. <aw...@pr...>]

I moved this thread to this list as my problem applies to fvwm-themes.

Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> 
> If you use 2.5.4+, you may do this, see the man page of FvwmButtons.
> In short you should use:
> 
>   SendToModule FvwmButtons ChangeButton my_button Icon new_icon.png, ...
> 
> whenever you want to change an icon.
> 

This works nice and smooth but (I think Mikhael once stated this in an
earlier post) this relies on an absolute path. After some
experimentation I found this to be true so I have been unable to
concieve of a way to use this in fvwm-themes where the $FT_DATADIR will
be different on different installations.

Is there any way around this yet?

Alex
-- 
`When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, *for
free*".'
(By Linus Torvalds)

Re: Desk names

[Alex W. <aw...@pr...>]

Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> 
> We need to let users to change the names of desks.
> Currently we have this in modules/main:
> 
>   DesktopName 0 Main
>   DesktopName 1 Internet
>   DesktopName 2 Work
>   DesktopName 3 Games
> 
> We may move this to a new component desknames or desktopnames.
> Or leave as is, but still have this new component. This does not matter
> for now. What matters is we need a form to create this component.
> 
> Alex, can you think about a way to do it conveniently. It may use some
> unix commands like "touch $FVWM_USERDIR/themes/personal/desknames" and
> "perl -pi -e 's{DesktopName 3 Games}{DesktopName 3 Media}'
> $FVWM_USERDIR/themes/personal/desknames". You may choose whether to
> use FvwmForm or FvwmGtk or whatever else. Whether to name only 4 desktops
> or any numbers with possible gaps. Use $[desk.name2] after I fix it.
> 

In order for the above approach to work it is necessary to have
$FVWM_USERDIR set as an exported variable AND to have an existing
$FVWM_USERDIR/themes/personal/ directory, neither of which existed on my
newly installed redhat 8.0 system. If these are now to become a
requirement for running fvwm-themes I think it may be more appropriate
for the install process to create and set these up rather than a gui
which may not even be run by a new user.

Alternatively, what about adding an extra section for Desk Names to the
Settings? Perhaps the menu could be made to display the list of current
$[desk.name<n>]'s and a mouse click activates the gui to change each one
specifically? I'm not sure how it may contrived to work with various
themes with different numbers of configured desktops. We may have to
impose a predefined set limit of the maximum number of desktop but I
would not favour this.

This will require further thought and discussion.

Alex
-- 
`When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, *for
free*".'
(By Linus Torvalds)

Re: Desk names

[Alex W. <aw...@pr...>]

Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> 
> We need to let users to change the names of desks.
> Currently we have this in modules/main:
> 
>   DesktopName 0 Main
>   DesktopName 1 Internet
>   DesktopName 2 Work
>   DesktopName 3 Games
> 
> We may move this to a new component desknames or desktopnames.
> Or leave as is, but still have this new component. This does not matter
> for now. What matters is we need a form to create this component.
> 
> Alex, can you think about a way to do it conveniently. It may use some
> unix commands like "touch $FVWM_USERDIR/themes/personal/desknames" and
> "perl -pi -e 's{DesktopName 3 Games}{DesktopName 3 Media}'
> $FVWM_USERDIR/themes/personal/desknames". You may choose whether to
> use FvwmForm or FvwmGtk or whatever else. Whether to name only 4 desktops
> or any numbers with possible gaps. Use $[desk.name2] after I fix it.

I'm not convinced we need another component for this as already many
users have expressed concern about confusion with the many and varied
components we have now. I do agree however that more gui's for things
like desktop names would be an advantage and have some ideas that I will
present soon. Creating a gui is not difficult, but I will think on this
some more.

Alex
-- 
It is easier to resist at the biginning than at the end.
	-- Leonardo da Vinci

Desk names

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

We need to let users to change the names of desks.
Currently we have this in modules/main:

  DesktopName 0 Main
  DesktopName 1 Internet
  DesktopName 2 Work
  DesktopName 3 Games

We may move this to a new component desknames or desktopnames.
Or leave as is, but still have this new component. This does not matter
for now. What matters is we need a form to create this component.

Alex, can you think about a way to do it conveniently. It may use some
unix commands like "touch $FVWM_USERDIR/themes/personal/desknames" and
"perl -pi -e 's{DesktopName 3 Games}{DesktopName 3 Media}'
$FVWM_USERDIR/themes/personal/desknames". You may choose whether to
use FvwmForm or FvwmGtk or whatever else. Whether to name only 4 desktops
or any numbers with possible gaps. Use $[desk.name2] after I fix it.

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: Underground theme backgrounds image viewer

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

On 13 Jan 2003 06:02:04 +1030, Alex Wallis wrote:
> 
> I just got around to having a look at this new component.
> 
> I'm currently using the new redhat 8.0 distribution of linux which
> doesn't ship with xv. I would suggest that many people will fail to have
> the xv image viewer installed these days as it seems to have fallen out
> of fashion.

You may still install xv rpm from RH 6.x or whatever.
Yes, this is what always happens with shareware, it is forgotten.

> To get this component to work I chose to use ImageMagick's tool called
> "display" and changed the fuction to set the background image to the
> following...
> 
> DestroyFunc FuncFvwmBackgroundImage
> AddToFunc   FuncFvwmBackgroundImage
> + I DestroyFunc FuncFvwmStartThemeBackground
> + I AddToFunc   FuncFvwmStartThemeBackground
> + I + I Exec exec display -window root $./images/"$0"
> 
> This works fine for me, and although I think the backgrounds are a
> little too dark for my taste they are a wonderful collection of images
> indeed.
> 
> Might I suggest some additional logic to check for the preferred image
> viewer or some way to set it, or at least some mention in the theme's
> README about this matter? Otherwise this component just appears to fail
> silently!  :(

Don't worry, it will be soon "fvwm-themes-images --setroot --in-file $0".
I just didn't have a time to do it properly, moving some common functions
like searchProgramInPATH to fvwm perllib.

Regards,
Mikhael.

Underground theme backgrounds image viewer

[Alex W. <aw...@pr...>]

I just got around to having a look at this new component.

I'm currently using the new redhat 8.0 distribution of linux which
doesn't ship with xv. I would suggest that many people will fail to have
the xv image viewer installed these days as it seems to have fallen out
of fashion.
To get this component to work I chose to use ImageMagick's tool called
"display" and changed the fuction to set the background image to the
following...

DestroyFunc FuncFvwmBackgroundImage
AddToFunc   FuncFvwmBackgroundImage
+ I DestroyFunc FuncFvwmStartThemeBackground
+ I AddToFunc   FuncFvwmStartThemeBackground
+ I + I Exec exec display -window root $./images/"$0"

This works fine for me, and although I think the backgrounds are a
little too dark for my taste they are a wonderful collection of images
indeed.

Might I suggest some additional logic to check for the preferred image
viewer or some way to set it, or at least some mention in the theme's
README about this matter? Otherwise this component just appears to fail
silently!  :(

Alex
-- 
`When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, *for
free*".'
(By Linus Torvalds)

Re: Kathryn themes

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

Kathryn, I didn't meant you work slowly (you created a theme in one day,
this can't be slow), only tried to help.

About installing more than one fvwm-themes version, you should use
--with-fvwm-bindir=/needed/fvwm/bin and unfortunately this requires
using autoconf-2.13 for developers, I still didn't fully port it
to autoconf-2.53+. Another way is to change $PATH on ./configure run.

It seems that it is already a new year in Australia, so I wish you
Happy New Year, and to all others too. :)

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: Kathryn themes

[Kathryn A. <kat...@ka...>]

On Mon, Dec 30, 2002 at 11:08:46PM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> On 31 Dec 2002 09:06:49 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, Dec 30, 2002 at 09:31:51AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> > > 
> > > I may initially add the themes if this helps.
> > 
> > More a question of time than of difficulty; I know how to drive CVS.
> 
> I am not sure what this means exactly, but I will add the themes 10 hours
> from now unless you do this.

Fine.  Whatever.  I just spent my entire morning fixing the background
problem (new version up on my page) so that it (a) uses an image which
is copyright to *me* so no copyright problem, and (b) does not require
creation of a new image; instead it calls convert --modulate with
suitable parameters.  I'm tired and grumpy, and I'm *supposed* to be on
holidays enjoying myself, and while hacking is fun, I had not intended
to spend my entire Christmas break doing so.  I've already been working
on fixing bugs nonstop for the past few days -- if I'm not working fast
enough for you, well, tough, you can jolly well do it yourself then.
I wanted a clean version to go into CVS, not a stupid one full of bugs
and files that were going to be deleted anyway.

Kathryn Andersen
(tired, grumpy and feeling put-upon)
-- 
 _--_|\	    | Kathryn Andersen	<ka...@ka...> <http://www.katspace.com>
/      \    | 
\_.--.*/    | GenFicCrit mailing list <http://www.katspace.com/gen_fic_crit/>
      v	    | 
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |	-> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Re: Things to do for 0.7.0

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

On 26 Dec 2002 19:08:11 -0700, S. Anderson wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 01:37:09AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> > Shawn, I expect you to add colors and possibly modules components to your
> > theme. I hope you know how to do "cvs add" and "cvs commit". You may
> > complete colors in steps, first initial 15 colorsets, then after
> > experiments - correct/add other colorsets. Modules are the most complex
> > component if to do it very configurable. It is possible to minimize the
> > number of files and to do it like in Minimal theme. Anyway, without
> > accustomed modules you will not feel at home.
> 
> Im working on these things. hopefully they will be comitted soon.

Good work. I will comment later on it.
Just quick notes. Please document all file changes in ChangeLog,
you may use masks to group files in the same directories.
Please add themes/sa/images/decor/ directory and its files to cvs.

There are some small issues. I would use a function, not a global
environment variable, but a variable (if there are no many) is ok.
We usually configure both FvwmPager-Single and FvwmPager-Desker
configurations (and sometimes even 2 choices for one or another pager).
So if one prefers desker, he may always press Ctrl-(Shift)-Mouse2.

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: Kathryn themes

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

On 31 Dec 2002 09:06:49 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2002 at 09:31:51AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> > 
> > I may initially add the themes if this helps.
> 
> More a question of time than of difficulty; I know how to drive CVS.

I am not sure what this means exactly, but I will add the themes 10 hours
from now unless you do this.

> > > > 4) Color schemes may be done as component options like in
> > > > colors@cde and colors@luthien, but this is not urgent at all.
> > > 
> > > I'll have to look at that later.  I'm not really sure how it works; the
> > > documentation on the web page is a bit confusing, and I *do* understand
> > > Perl.
> > 
> > You don't need to understand any perl code unless you really want.
> > Try to understand first how ~/.fvwm/themes-rc* are autogenerated from
> > themes/components and their .cfg (the have some static headers).
> 
> And where do I find this out?  The docs on the web-page just have a
> section saying "this is magic"...

There is "Syntax of theme.cfg" section in this file.
But my advice is just to use your intuition and guessing.
Compare .cfg with what you see in menus of different Current components.

Understanding how internally fvwm-themes works would be nice, but this is
not a requirements for creating simple themes or copy/paste themes.

> > Then try to understand how options in background@default work,
> > then in colors@cde.
> 
> Now, here's another question related to this: I assume the reason you
> want me to do this is to integrate my "multiple colour schemes" stuff
> to actually offering a menu of multiple colour schemes, yes?
> One logical way of doing this would be to generate a different "colors"
> file for every possible ColSchemes scheme.  Unfortunately, since
> ColSchemes can generate (hues * scheme_types * default_shades *
> active_shades) schemes, if we take number of hues = 36 (because I
> usually increment the hue by ten degrees each day in my setup)
> we have
> hues = 36
> scheme_types = 9
> default_shades = 3 (Light, Mid, Dark)
> active_shades = 3
> 
> we get a possible number of schemes = 2916!
> Now, granted, some of the schemes do get eliminated in my these-are-not
> -harmonious filter, but you can see it wouldn't be practical to generate
> files for every single one of them.
> 
> So what is it that you suggest?

I suggest to do it exactly like in background@default, create one
function that gets 4 parameters and then call it 2916 times from
colors.cfg. Or less, I hope, because it is 60 menu "More..." pages...
And patch fvwm-themes-images if needed. Though, it is in no way urgent.

> Another question: if I have a 2.5 version of the theme, what should
> happen to the 2.4 version?

Do you mean you want to maintain a 2.4 version? Then you should checkout
branch-0_6 and add this version to this branch. You may also keep this
branch to run with fvwm-2.4.x. Remember to reinstall fvwm-themes with
different configure prefix for every fvwm installation if you have
several. And then run /full/path/to/correct/fvwm-themes-start .

> > I forgot to say, you should run fvwm from cvs, since it happens that in
> > fvwm-themes cvs we switch to some feature that just appeared in fvwm cvs.
> 
> Oh.  And here I spent yesterday installing 2.5.5 from the tarball on the
> fvwm site! I ended up having to remove the old fvwm completely, even
> though it said one could run two of them -- yes you can, but fvwm-themes
> refused to work when I had fvwm 2.5 installed in /opt/fvwm25 -- it
> couldn't find one of the FvwmScript scripts (*yes* I did do a second
> install of fvwm-themes for the second install of fvwm), so I just ended
> up removing everything and making it all from scratch and installing
> them in the traditional places.  That seems to have worked.
> 
> But you want me to do it all *again*? (sigh)

Yes, I want you to reinstall fvwm every day, several times per day. :-)
Actually this is not a joke and it is just "cvs update; make install",
so I see no much work. You may setup it like this to minimize the work.

I have /data/cvs/fvwm directory with scripts and directories:

  conf                # shell script for the current fvwm configure
  conf-2.4.x          # shell script for the stable fvwm configure
  fvwm/               # unstable branch cvs
  fvwm-2.4.x/         # stable branch-2_4 cvs
  fvwm-web/           # web site cvs
  cvsf                # shell script with cvs -d :pserver:... "$@"

conf-2.4.x contains the command: ./configure --prefix=/opt/fvwm-2.4 "$@"
conf contains the command: ./configure --prefix=/opt/fvwm "$@"

BTW, I have conf-2.2.x too.
And then there is /data/cvs/ft directory with:

  conf                # shell script for the current fvwm-themes configure
  conf-0.6.x          # shell script for the stable fvwm-themes configure
  fvwm-themes/        # unstable branch cvs
  fvwm-themes-0.6.x/  # stable branch-0_6 cvs
  fvwm-themes-web/    # web site cvs
  cvst                # shell script with cvs -d :pserver:... "$@"

conf-0.6.x contains the command: ./configure --prefix=/opt/fvwm-2.4
conf contains the command: ./configure --prefix=/opt/fvwm

To install fvwm I do:

  cd /data/cvs/fvwm
  ./cvsf checkout fvwm   # needed once
  cd fvwm
  ../conf                # needed once
  cvs update
  make install

To install fvwm-themes I do the same steps in another tree.

-..-

If you really setup something like this, you may switch from one
fvwm-themes installation to another on the fly by:

  Restart /opt/fvwm/bin/fvwm-themes-start   # this is in $PATH normally
  Restart /opt/fvwm-2.4/bin/fvwm-themes-start

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: Kathryn themes

[Kathryn A. <kat...@ka...>]

On Mon, Dec 30, 2002 at 09:31:51AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> On 29 Dec 2002 18:06:52 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> > 
> > On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 02:07:38AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> > 
> > Okay, there is now a new version of PlainBow and CelticBow up on my
> > web-page <http://www.katspace.com/tools/col_scheme/>.  I haven't looked
> > at the CVS-putting-in yet.
> 
> I may initially add the themes if this helps.

More a question of time than of difficulty; I know how to drive CVS.

> I am not sure it is a good idea to include the copyrighted background
> image unless the author permits a redistribution (under GPL).

Good point -- that just occurred to me yesterday.  I shall look at
replacing it.
 
> > > 4) Color schemes may be done as component options like in colors@cde and
> > > colors@luthien, but this is not urgent at all.
> > 
> > I'll have to look at that later.  I'm not really sure how it works; the
> > documentation on the web page is a bit confusing, and I *do* understand
> > Perl.
> 
> You don't need to understand any perl code unless you really want.
> Try to understand first how ~/.fvwm/themes-rc* are autogenerated from
> themes/components and their .cfg (the have some static headers).

And where do I find this out?  The docs on the web-page just have a
section saying "this is magic"...
 
> Then try to understand how options in background@default work,
> then in colors@cde.

Now, here's another question related to this: I assume the reason you
want me to do this is to integrate my "multiple colour schemes" stuff
to actually offering a menu of multiple colour schemes, yes?
One logical way of doing this would be to generate a different "colors"
file for every possible ColSchemes scheme.  Unfortunately, since
ColSchemes can generate (hues * scheme_types * default_shades *
active_shades) schemes, if we take number of hues = 36 (because I
usually increment the hue by ten degrees each day in my setup)
we have
hues = 36
scheme_types = 9
default_shades = 3 (Light, Mid, Dark)
active_shades = 3

we get a possible number of schemes = 2916!
Now, granted, some of the schemes do get eliminated in my these-are-not
-harmonious filter, but you can see it wouldn't be practical to generate
files for every single one of them.

So what is it that you suggest?

Another question: if I have a 2.5 version of the theme, what should
happen to the 2.4 version?
 
> > > 5) You should run 2.5.x, at least at some point, because the version
> > > in cvs will not work well with 2.4.x.
> > 
> > Do you know if there's a .deb for 2.5.x?  (Yeah, yeah, harping on a
> > theme...)
> 
> I forgot to say, you should run fvwm from cvs, since it happens that in
> fvwm-themes cvs we switch to some feature that just appeared in fvwm cvs.

Oh.  And here I spent yesterday installing 2.5.5 from the tarball on the
fvwm site! I ended up having to remove the old fvwm completely, even
though it said one could run two of them -- yes you can, but fvwm-themes
refused to work when I had fvwm 2.5 installed in /opt/fvwm25 -- it
couldn't find one of the FvwmScript scripts (*yes* I did do a second
install of fvwm-themes for the second install of fvwm), so I just ended
up removing everything and making it all from scratch and installing
them in the traditional places.  That seems to have worked.

But you want me to do it all *again*? (sigh)
 
> As for debian packages, unless someone who uses Debian creates a procedure
> for automatical building of deb packages from snapshot tarballs (similarly
> to how rpms may be created using "make rpm-dist" in fvwm and fvwm-themes),
> there is nothing to do except for installing from sources.

There is a crude way of making debs with checkinstall, but such debs
don't have any proper dependency info, so far as I can see.

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jim: Give me the gun.
Wilson: Detective, I can make you a very rich man.
Jim: No, thanks.
Wilson: I'm getting really tired of this.
Jim: So am I. (knocks out Wilson and takes gun)
		 (Sentinel: Night Train)
-- 
 _--_|\	    | Kathryn Andersen	<ka...@ka...> <http://www.katspace.com>
/      \    | 
\_.--.*/    | GenFicCrit mailing list <http://www.katspace.com/gen_fic_crit/>
      v	    | 
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |	-> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Re: Kathryn themes

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

On 29 Dec 2002 18:06:52 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 02:07:38AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> 
> Okay, there is now a new version of PlainBow and CelticBow up on my
> web-page <http://www.katspace.com/tools/col_scheme/>.  I haven't looked
> at the CVS-putting-in yet.

I may initially add the themes if this helps.
I am not sure it is a good idea to include the copyrighted background
image unless the author permits a redistribution (under GPL).

> > 4) Color schemes may be done as component options like in colors@cde and
> > colors@luthien, but this is not urgent at all.
> 
> I'll have to look at that later.  I'm not really sure how it works; the
> documentation on the web page is a bit confusing, and I *do* understand
> Perl.

You don't need to understand any perl code unless you really want.
Try to understand first how ~/.fvwm/themes-rc* are autogenerated from
themes/components and their .cfg (the have some static headers).

Then try to understand how options in background@default work,
then in colors@cde.

> > 5) You should run 2.5.x, at least at some point, because the version
> > in cvs will not work well with 2.4.x.
> 
> Do you know if there's a .deb for 2.5.x?  (Yeah, yeah, harping on a
> theme...)

I forgot to say, you should run fvwm from cvs, since it happens that in
fvwm-themes cvs we switch to some feature that just appeared in fvwm cvs.

As for debian packages, unless someone who uses Debian creates a procedure
for automatical building of deb packages from snapshot tarballs (similarly
to how rpms may be created using "make rpm-dist" in fvwm and fvwm-themes),
there is nothing to do except for installing from sources.

Regards,
Mikhael.

convert -modulate (was Re: Color schemes)

[Kathryn A. <kat...@ka...>]

On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 04:18:44PM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> On 27 Dec 2002 21:52:29 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> > 
> > > I actually meant to use hue, not tinting, but I was not familar with
> > > the exact term. I always used xv to rotate colors. But now I see that
> > > "convert -modulate 100,100,55" does it just fine.
> > 
> > Actually, that does look rather interesting.  I can't remember now why I
> > chose colorize instead of modulate, unless I just hadn't noticed it,
> > or that I found colorize more useful for background images than modulate.
> > (shrug)
> 
> For pure gray images colorizing is good, hue rotation does nothing.
> For motley images colorizing is harmful, hue rotation is good.
 
I have been experimenting with convert -modulate 100,100,N where N has
been a varying number, and I have been getting rather mixed results,
varying more depending on the input image rather than the values given.
Some images have been fine, others have produced an ugly "mosaic" effect
where some blocks of the image have their colours changed, and others
don't.  Anyone got a clue as to what might be causing this?

Kathryn Andersen
(who should have been doing the washing-up, and instead got entranced by
pretty pictures...)
-- 
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Re: Kathryn themes

[Kathryn A. <kat...@ka...>]

On Sun, Dec 29, 2002 at 02:07:38AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> I have added Kathryn to developers.

Yeah, hi everybody! (waves)
 
> Please consider these suggestions.
> 
> 1) We didn't use "_" in theme names until now, you may use theme-name.cfg
> to change the capitalization as appeared in menus.

Aha.  Yep.  Can do.
 
> 2) You don't need to duplicate identical components in themes unless this
> is really needed, keep only one to reduce the maintenance work.

Yes.  Makes sense.  I have now pared CelticBow to the bone; it only has
four components now: buttons, colors, windowlook and I've added a
background.  (Yes, though the colours and windowlook are similar to
plainbow, they are not the same)
 
> 3) Don't use ImagePath in colors@, use decor/image.xpm file name, it will
> automatically work.

Yep.  Done.

Okay, there is now a new version of PlainBow and CelticBow up on my
web-page <http://www.katspace.com/tools/col_scheme/>.  I haven't looked
at the CVS-putting-in yet.
 
> 4) Color schemes may be done as component options like in colors@cde and
> colors@luthien, but this is not urgent at all.

I'll have to look at that later.  I'm not really sure how it works; the
documentation on the web page is a bit confusing, and I *do* understand
Perl.
 
> 5) You should run 2.5.x, at least at some point, because the version
> in cvs will not work well with 2.4.x.

Do you know if there's a .deb for 2.5.x?  (Yeah, yeah, harping on a
theme...)
 
> 6) Please read the message in the archive about things to do for 0.7.0.
> Any help would be appreciated, including the nice accurate web pages.

Ah, yes, the documentation... (grin)
 
Oh my, that sure is a big archive... (gulp!)

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Your sense of humour will be the death of you, Doctor -
			probably very soon."
	-- Sharaz Jek, to the Doctor	(Doctor Who: The Caves of Androzani)
-- 
 _--_|\	    | Kathryn Andersen	<ka...@ka...> <http://www.katspace.com>
/      \    | 
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      v	    | 
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Maranatha!  |	-> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Re: Kathryn themes

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

I have added Kathryn to developers.

Please consider these suggestions.

1) We didn't use "_" in theme names until now, you may use theme-name.cfg
to change the capitalization as appeared in menus.

2) You don't need to duplicate identical components in themes unless this
is really needed, keep only one to reduce the maintenance work.

3) Don't use ImagePath in colors@, use decor/image.xpm file name, it will
automatically work.

4) Color schemes may be done as component options like in colors@cde and
colors@luthien, but this is not urgent at all.

5) You should run 2.5.x, at least at some point, because the version
in cvs will not work well with 2.4.x.

6) Please read the message in the archive about things to do for 0.7.0.
Any help would be appreciated, including the nice accurate web pages.

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: Kathryn themes

[Kathryn A. <kat...@ka...>]

On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 10:33:03PM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> On 28 Dec 2002 22:54:19 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> > 
> > But all this has inspired me to make another theme, a sort of Celtic
> > one.  It's basically my PlainBow theme with different buttons (based on,
> > but not the same as, Dorothy Robinson's celtic buttons at 
> > <http://www.twobarleycorns.net/fvwm-decors.html>) and a different title
> > decoration.  I hope it looks prettier.
> > <http://www.katspace.com/tools/col_scheme/>
> 
> This time I actually looked at your colors@ and got I it!
> In 2.5.x you don't need to run FvwmTheme and fvwm-themes does not do it
> (but it does it if 2.4.x is detected). Now when I run FvwmTheme manually
> both your themes look complitelly different! :)

Aha!
 
> To solve this problem, please convert your colors@ not to have any
> "*FvwmTheme: " lines, take a look at colors@default in 0.6.2.
> This way both 2.4.x and 2.5.x will work. Your lines should be simply:
> 
>   Colorset 5 fg rgb:cf5/cf5/e66, bg rgb:0f5/0f5/999, Plain, NoShape

I see.  Doing so now...
 
> Now themes look much nicer, both CeltBow (CelticBow?) and PlainBow. :)

Oh good!

I have been puzzled as to why I would have done this, and the answer
is... that I was modelling after the 0.6.1 themes, because that is the
version I have installed.  And they seem to consistently have the
*FvwmTheme lines in them.  I didn't realize that 0.6.2 was not the
version I had... I shall have to do something about that too!
 
> I managed to find the problem with menus. If I execute "MenuStyle *
> MenuColorset 5" there are no internal error anymore. The problem is
> in your line "MenuStyle * FVWM", please remove this line, it is redundant
> and triggers this bug.

Okey-dokey.  Done.  Expect a new version of both themes up soon.
 
> Ok, seems like you are pretty good with fvwm-themes, if you want to
> maintain your themes in cvs, you may just create a SourceForge user and
> I will add you.

Thank you!
I already have a SourceForge user; "rubykat", but it's not surprising
you didn't find it if you looked -- searching for "Kathryn Andersen" on
sourceforge gets pages and pages and pages of results, since they return
all the Andersens and all the Kathryns, in alphabetical order of
user-id...
 
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tarrant:  Ready?
   Vila:  Does it make any difference?
		 (Blake's 7: City at the Edge of the World [C6])
-- 
 _--_|\	    | Kathryn Andersen	<ka...@ka...> <http://www.katspace.com>
/      \    | 
\_.--.*/    | GenFicCrit mailing list <http://www.katspace.com/gen_fic_crit/>
      v	    | 
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Maranatha!  |	-> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Kathryn themes

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

On 28 Dec 2002 22:54:19 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> 
> But all this has inspired me to make another theme, a sort of Celtic
> one.  It's basically my PlainBow theme with different buttons (based on,
> but not the same as, Dorothy Robinson's celtic buttons at 
> <http://www.twobarleycorns.net/fvwm-decors.html>) and a different title
> decoration.  I hope it looks prettier.
> <http://www.katspace.com/tools/col_scheme/>

This time I actually looked at your colors@ and got I it!
In 2.5.x you don't need to run FvwmTheme and fvwm-themes does not do it
(but it does it if 2.4.x is detected). Now when I run FvwmTheme manually
both your themes look complitelly different! :)

To solve this problem, please convert your colors@ not to have any
"*FvwmTheme: " lines, take a look at colors@default in 0.6.2.
This way both 2.4.x and 2.5.x will work. Your lines should be simply:

  Colorset 5 fg rgb:cf5/cf5/e66, bg rgb:0f5/0f5/999, Plain, NoShape

Now themes look much nicer, both CeltBow (CelticBow?) and PlainBow. :)

I think they may use a new 2.5.x MultiPixmap option of TitleStyle
(that I am going to alias to MultiImage and/or MultiColorset).

I managed to find the problem with menus. If I execute "MenuStyle *
MenuColorset 5" there are no internal error anymore. The problem is
in your line "MenuStyle * FVWM", please remove this line, it is redundant
and triggers this bug.

Ok, seems like you are pretty good with fvwm-themes, if you want to
maintain your themes in cvs, you may just create a SourceForge user and
I will add you.

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: Color schemes (was: Re: Two fvwm-themes related pages)

[Kathryn A. <kat...@ka...>]

On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 04:18:44PM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> On 27 Dec 2002 21:52:29 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> > 

> > Interestingly enough, though, rotating colours doesn't always work,
> > because, to the human eye, things that went together in one combination
> > of colours, don't always work when it's rotated, particularly when the
> > colours in question were say, 90 or more degrees apart.  That's why,
> > with my ColScheme module, I actually went through and explicitly
> > eliminated colour combinations of, say, violet and tomato red, or
> > yellow and rose-pink, that I didn't think went well together.
> > And that was just with two colours!
> 
> Random color rotation does not always look natural, but there are usually
> several angles that produce really nice results. And if the original image
> has colors in the same 45 degrees segment then any hue offset will work.

Well, true, if all the colours are close together, then they will be
fine.  It's when the colours are further apart on the "colour wheel"
that it gets trickier about what goes with what.
 
> > > I actually meant to use hue, not tinting, but I was not familar with
> > > the exact term. I always used xv to rotate colors. But now I see that
> > > "convert -modulate 100,100,55" does it just fine.
> > 
> > Actually, that does look rather interesting.  I can't remember now why I
> > chose colorize instead of modulate, unless I just hadn't noticed it,
> > or that I found colorize more useful for background images than modulate.
> > (shrug)
> 
> For pure gray images colorizing is good, hue rotation does nothing.
> For motley images colorizing is harmful, hue rotation is good.

Yep. that makes sense.
 
> > Another thing I've just thought about is, wouldn't it be cool if
> > one could have semi-transparent images, to sort of overlay things, with
> > the background colour showing through and tinting things.  Of course,
> > you can't do that with XPM images, they've just got full transparency,
> > but don't PNG files have partial transparency?  But of course that
> > wouldn't be able to be done except in fvwm 2.5, which is too bleeding
> > edge for me to be using.
> 
> I thought you are familar with 2.5.x, the Tint I speak about (the same as
> convert -fill -colorize) and colorsets in TitleStyle are new things, not
> to speak about semi-transparency. 0.7.0 will be based on 2.5.x.

No, I wasn't actually.

But all this has inspired me to make another theme, a sort of Celtic
one.  It's basically my PlainBow theme with different buttons (based on,
but not the same as, Dorothy Robinson's celtic buttons at 
<http://www.twobarleycorns.net/fvwm-decors.html>) and a different title
decoration.  I hope it looks prettier.
<http://www.katspace.com/tools/col_scheme/>

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"And I thought I was a pessimist."
        -- Ivanova, "Points of Departure" (Babylon 5)
-- 
 _--_|\	    | Kathryn Andersen	<ka...@ka...> <http://www.katspace.com>
/      \    | 
\_.--.*/    | GenFicCrit mailing list <http://www.katspace.com/gen_fic_crit/>
      v	    | 
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Re: Debian packages

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

I just got a message from Alexis Rimbaud, he writes he has no time to
maintain debian packages of fvwm-themes.

So, if someone has a willing to take it over, feel free to do this.
If it helps, here is a work of Alexis:

  http://rimbaud.net1.nerim.net/fvwm-themes/

There is also discussion about technical issues of creating these
packages in July 2002 archives.

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: Color schemes (was: Re: Two fvwm-themes related pages)

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

On 27 Dec 2002 21:52:29 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 07:06:23AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> > 
> > Yes, tinting is a bad solution for color schemes, because it basically
> > reduces image contrast, instead of just rotating colors.
> 
> Interestingly enough, though, rotating colours doesn't always work,
> because, to the human eye, things that went together in one combination
> of colours, don't always work when it's rotated, particularly when the
> colours in question were say, 90 or more degrees apart.  That's why,
> with my ColScheme module, I actually went through and explicitly
> eliminated colour combinations of, say, violet and tomato red, or
> yellow and rose-pink, that I didn't think went well together.
> And that was just with two colours!

Random color rotation does not always look natural, but there are usually
several angles that produce really nice results. And if the original image
has colors in the same 45 degrees segment then any hue offset will work.

> > I actually meant to use hue, not tinting, but I was not familar with
> > the exact term. I always used xv to rotate colors. But now I see that
> > "convert -modulate 100,100,55" does it just fine.
> 
> Actually, that does look rather interesting.  I can't remember now why I
> chose colorize instead of modulate, unless I just hadn't noticed it,
> or that I found colorize more useful for background images than modulate.
> (shrug)

For pure gray images colorizing is good, hue rotation does nothing.
For motley images colorizing is harmful, hue rotation is good.

> > I think, we may support color rotation (hue) in fvwm-themes-images,
> > the current --colorize only works for grayed images loosing any
> > saturation.
> 
> In other words, one colour at a time.

Well, our colorize accepts any number of colors that are interpolated
(terminology?) using one or another algorithm from the gray colors. It is
just that the interpolation starts from grayed colors. And it is hard to
find a good color list and interpolation algorithm for a given image.

> > And I would _really_ like to have HueOffset (or HueRotation) in colorsets,
> > not just Tint. A value of 0 (or 360) would mean no color rotation.
> > This would add a lot of fully qualitative color schemes to any decor.
> 
> You mean, defining colours by their offset from a given "master hue"?
> That could be really useful.

I mean that to define another hue offset someone should issue one command:

  Colorset N HueOffset 180  # convert all red to cyan and vice versa
  Colorset N HueOffset 0    # return to the original image/gradient

> Another thing I've just thought about is, wouldn't it be cool if
> one could have semi-transparent images, to sort of overlay things, with
> the background colour showing through and tinting things.  Of course,
> you can't do that with XPM images, they've just got full transparency,
> but don't PNG files have partial transparency?  But of course that
> wouldn't be able to be done except in fvwm 2.5, which is too bleeding
> edge for me to be using.

I thought you are familar with 2.5.x, the Tint I speak about (the same as
convert -fill -colorize) and colorsets in TitleStyle are new things, not
to speak about semi-transparency. 0.7.0 will be based on 2.5.x.

Regards,
Mikhael.

Debian packages

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

From time to time Debian users ask me whether someone packages
fvwm-themes. Two guys even suggested to package it during the Autumn.
I point them to Alexis Rimbaud and the Debian mail archives.

So, Alexis, please clarify this. Do you package fvwm-themes?
What should I answer to Debian users and put on the web page?

Regards,
Mikhael.

Re: Color schemes (was: Re: Two fvwm-themes related pages)

[Kathryn A. <ka...@ka...>]

On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 07:06:23AM +0000, Mikhael Goikhman wrote:
> On 27 Dec 2002 10:47:18 +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> > 
> > But I actually prefer using vector buttons to using button images,
> > that's one of the things I like about fvwm.
> 
> I like vector buttons myself, but vector drawing is not perfect and may
> look crooked for some button sizes. Button images may be very nice and
> they are not limited to 2-3 colors. Of course then they are harder to
> follow the color scheme.

Exactly.
 
> > > It even has a way to use color schemes, but it is external to fvwm-themes.
> > 
> > Yeah, I wanted something that wasn't window-manager specific, really,
> > so that I could use it across different WMs, once I figured out how they
> > were configured.
> 
> This is fine with me. I may link to your page, so you get more visitors.

Thanks!

> > > There is a classical problem, a grayed image (say xpm with only 3-4 colors
> > > that are shadow/hilight/bg/transparent) that should be applied under
> > > some colorset, i.e. xpm image should have 3 colors from this colorset.
> > > I think CDE solved this by using symbolic names like topShadowColor.
> > > It may be solved with vector drawing (that is applied under colorset)
> > > instead of xpm image, but this requires absolute positions including
> > > negative ones. So probably this is not very usable here yet.
> > 
> > I'm not sure I follow this.
> 
> I said that currently you regenerate all colors and 2 title bar images.
> I tried to think how not to regenerate these 2 images.

I think there's really only two choices; to have a pseudo-image format
which has symbolic names, as mentioned above, which could possibly mean
the images could be "generated" on the fly, or by regenerating the
images explicitly, but I think either way, if one is using actual
images, one has to regenerate the images one way or another.
 
> > Actually, in an earlier incarnation of my colour-scheme stuff, I *was*
> > using XPM files with symbolic names for the colours in them, and then
> > using m4 macros to substitute the symbolic names for real names, but it
> > was such a pain creating the initial pseudo-xpm files, that it was with
> > great relief that I started using ImageMagick's colourize facility on
> > any ol' image file instead.
> > 
> > Of course the limitation of colourize is that you can only tint the
> > image one particular colour.
> 
> Yes, "convert -colorize" is pretty unusable for me. "fvwm-themes-images
> --colorize" is much more usable, but works for xpms only.

I must admit, I hadn't even looked at fvwm-themes-images before, I don't
think I even knew it existed.  It does look interesting.
 
> I suppose this refers to the sentence quoted below, not the one above.
> Yes, tinting is a bad solution for color schemes, because it basically
> reduces image contrast, instead of just rotating colors.

Interestingly enough, though, rotating colours doesn't always work,
because, to the human eye, things that went together in one combination
of colours, don't always work when it's rotated, particularly when the
colours in question were say, 90 or more degrees apart.  That's why,
with my ColScheme module, I actually went through and explicitly
eliminated colour combinations of, say, violet and tomato red, or
yellow and rose-pink, that I didn't think went well together.
And that was just with two colours!
 
> > > There are FvwmErrorHandler internal errors (56, 13, 12) and (128, 4, 12)
> > > every time a menu is used with this theme, but I can't check this now.
> > 
> > Oh.  I hadn't noticed.  I don't know what I would be doing wrong...
> 
> I didn't mean you should solve this. Such errors is a bug in fvwm.

Oh, good, that's a relief.
 
> > Talking of formats, that reminds me... do you know if anyone at all is
> > interested in packaging fvwm-themes for Debian?
> 
> Several people were interested. I will start a new thread about this.

Cool.
One of the things that I miss with the from-the-source installation
of fvwm-themes, is that one has to add the fvwm-themes option explicitly
by hand to the window-manager options in the KDM login-manager, and once
one does it by hand, all of the automatic add-in-a-window-manager-when
-it-is-installed stuff stops working, because one has disabled the
automatic stuff when one does it by hand.
 
> I meant, now when we have multi-colorset in titlebar, we may use colorsets
> then Tint them, but unfortunately tinting is a bad idea for color schemes.
> From your page it seems that hue is a good idea.

Thanks.

> I actually meant to use
> hue, not tinting, but I was not familar with the exact term. I always used
> xv to rotate colors. But now I see that "convert -modulate 100,100,55"
> does it just fine.

Actually, that does look rather interesting.  I can't remember now why I
chose colorize instead of modulate, unless I just hadn't noticed it,
or that I found colorize more useful for background images than modulate.
(shrug)

> And any graphical color selector shows a color hue too.

They do indeed.

> I think, we may support color rotation (hue) in fvwm-themes-images,
> the current --colorize only works for grayed images loosing any saturation.

In other words, one colour at a time.
 
> And I would _really_ like to have HueOffset (or HueRotation) in colorsets,
> not just Tint. A value of 0 (or 360) would mean no color rotation.
> This would add a lot of fully qualitative color schemes to any decor.

You mean, defining colours by their offset from a given "master hue"?
That could be really useful.
 
Another thing I've just thought about is, wouldn't it be cool if
one could have semi-transparent images, to sort of overlay things, with
the background colour showing through and tinting things.  Of course,
you can't do that with XPM images, they've just got full transparency,
but don't PNG files have partial transparency?  But of course that
wouldn't be able to be done except in fvwm 2.5, which is too bleeding
edge for me to be using.

Kathryn Andersen

(pass this on if you think it worth it)

 _--_|\	   | Kathryn Andersen	<ka...@ka...> <http://www.katspace.com>
/      \   |
\_.--.*/   | GenFicCrit mailing list <http://www.katspace.com/gen_fic_crit/>
      v	   | 
-----------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! |	-> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Re: DefaultFont in themes

[Mikhael G. <mi...@ho...>]

On 26 Dec 2002 20:30:07 -0700, S. Anderson wrote:
> 
> I would like to define a font for the resize/move feedback window in my
> theme.
> 
> What file should I put DefaultFont settings? I tried to grep through the
> other themes, but I didnt get any results.
> 
> any suggestions?

The font issue is not clear.

I think DefaultFont may be handled just like FvwmIdent Font. So it may be
in globallook@default and a user may override it in globallook-extra (but
it is not such simple with all minimal loading functions).

If we choose this direction, fonts@ may contain a filter for DefaultFont.
And themes should not usually define DefaultFont unless they provide
fonts@. If we speak about this, fonts@ was designed to provide i18n
support (see fonts@multichoice), then I thought it is a good idea to use
these filters to add text shadow (fonts@redmondxp). I think it is ok to
have fonts@ for these purposes, but this does not always works well
together. Maybe someone has better suggestions for the font design.

Regards,
Mikhael.