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From: Ralf Q. <fre...@gm...> - 2024-09-18 18:35:34
|
On 9/18/2024 10:11 AM, barry m via Freedos-user wrote: > I have downloaded the FD13cd zip and the 13FDfloppy zip > I tried to unpack the 1.44 mb file but got error message - not enough > space - need another 22.9 mb. > I tried to unpack the 720k file to the same 1.45 mb floppy - got same > message! > Help. You are a bit thin on the details, but it seems as if you are trying to unzip from the ZIP file directly onto a floppy disk. That logically can not work! Not sure how you got that "need another 22.9MB" message (what exactly you tried to exactly unpack exactly where), but the contents of the FD13floppy.zip contains "image" files of the various floppy drive sizes. "image" means that this file contains EVERYTHING, including boot sector and root directory, which of course is larger than the 1.44MB/720KB "user accessible" space on a formatted floppy disk. You need extract those .img files on the PC you downloaded them on, then use a "image writing" program like WinZIP (or dd on Linux) to transfer the complete image (including boot sector and root directory) onto a floppy disk. Ralf |
From: barry m <bar...@cl...> - 2024-09-18 18:13:57
|
I have downloaded the FD13cd zip and the 13FDfloppy zip I tried to unpack the 1.44 mb file but got error message - not enough space - need another 22.9 mb. I tried to unpack the 720k file to the same 1.45 mb floppy - got same message! Help. --- New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here: https://www.oeclassic.com/ |
From: Eric A. <e....@jp...> - 2024-09-16 23:05:19
|
Hi! I stumbled upon a long page on PCI soundcards in DOS, Win and Linux: https://flaterco.com/kb/audio/PCI/index.html Compatibility is mediocre at best. Reminds me of the time 15 years ago when I collected sort-of DOS compatible PCI soundcards myself. The website also has a long page about how classic graphics cards no longer are supported in Linux. Sad for those classics, but at least most of those cards probably still work quite OK in DOS :-) https://flaterco.com/kb/video/X-regressions.html Those were the times... I hope the pages are useful for some of you! Regards, Eric |
From: Frantisek R. <Fra...@po...> - 2024-09-15 10:53:47
|
> Intel GL40 graphics chip isn't quite 100% VGA, VBE 1.0, 1.1 or 2.0 > compatible in some of the graphics modes. SciTech Display Doctor > doesn't help here either. :/ Yes the Intel VESA BIOS omits a lot of the 16-color high-res graphics modes = 4 bits per pixel, I'd say 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 . I used to like a particular piece of software that was rather comfy in those modes. Which in the meantime has become irrelevant. Most legacy discrete VGA chips do support those modes just fine. In the old days I used to have a tool called VTEST.EXE... I wonder where it came from... UNIVBE maybe? Frank |
From: Louis S. <lps...@gm...> - 2024-09-14 06:00:00
|
I think this Dell Driver might have been part of the b57.zip I keep. https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-vc/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=03wcp It doesn't include lsl.com or odipkt.com. I have a batch file, START.BAT, that does lsl.com b57.com odipkt.com 0 96 to load the network driver before using mTCP DHCP to get an IP. On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 9:28 PM Louis Santillan <lps...@gm...> wrote: > Just realized I emailed Dan off list. > > You can see FreeDOS running on an hp t5745 here > > https://sites.google.com/view/lpsantil/home/dos-subsystem-for-linux-on-a-hp-t5745 > > FreeDOS runs beautifully on an HP t5745 variant Thin Client ( > https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hp/t5740/). I have 4 and I also have > 4 bay expanders that allow you to insert a PCIe riser or a PCI riser > adapter. However, Intel GL40 graphics chip isn't quite 100% VGA, VBE 1.0, > 1.1 or 2.0 compatible in some of the graphics modes. SciTech Display > Doctor doesn't help here either. :/ More testing needed. With SBEMU ( > https://github.com/crazii/SBEMU), you should be able to get the Intel > ICH9 sound chip working. And I also found DOS networking drivers for the > Broadcom BC57780 chip. The 1.6GHz Intel Atom N280 sucks for Windows 7 > (it’s only a single core with HyperThreading), is ok for a lightweight > Linux (like Tiny Core Linux) or Windows XP and absolutely blazes for DOS > gaming. Best part is that it sips power at 12W (running at full tilt) and > is fanless. The BIOS is super compatible with modern hardware. You can > boot DOS off SATA, 44-pin IDE or off any of the 8 USB ports (two of which > are hidden so you can treat it like a hard drive). You can also boot off > USB Floppy or USB CD-ROM drives. USB keyboards work well. I don't > remember if I've tried CuteMouse with a USB mouse but I want to say the > BIOS translates PS/2 protocol to the USB ports. > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 11:38 AM Dan Schmidt <hel...@gm...> > wrote: > >> Hmm....(Scratching chin) Am I the only one on this thread thinking about >> getting a dirt cheap t5740 to try to run a FreeDos thin client? Does >> FreeDos run on Atom? >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 5:09 PM Louis Santillan via Freedos-user < >> fre...@li...> wrote: >> >>> I agree with Eric. Something like an HP t5740, Dell Optiplex 9010 or >>> 9020 or 790, is about $25 on eBay, runs DOS well, will run DOS well off a >>> cheap 4-16GB USB drive, and will also come with 9-pin serial. The Dells >>> might even be free on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist. >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 1:48 PM Eric Auer via Freedos-user < >>> fre...@li...> wrote: >>> >>>> Depending on your planned expenses, you could also get a new or used >>>> DOS-compatible computer with a physical RS232 port, which avoids all >>>> USB issues. Most computers which still have a BIOS should work, while >>>> computers which only support UEFI and no longer have a legacy BIOS >>>> boot options are not suitable for running DOS directly on hardware. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Freedos-user mailing list >>> Fre...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >>> >> |
From: Louis S. <lps...@gm...> - 2024-09-14 04:28:28
|
Just realized I emailed Dan off list. You can see FreeDOS running on an hp t5745 here https://sites.google.com/view/lpsantil/home/dos-subsystem-for-linux-on-a-hp-t5745 FreeDOS runs beautifully on an HP t5745 variant Thin Client ( https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hp/t5740/). I have 4 and I also have 4 bay expanders that allow you to insert a PCIe riser or a PCI riser adapter. However, Intel GL40 graphics chip isn't quite 100% VGA, VBE 1.0, 1.1 or 2.0 compatible in some of the graphics modes. SciTech Display Doctor doesn't help here either. :/ More testing needed. With SBEMU ( https://github.com/crazii/SBEMU), you should be able to get the Intel ICH9 sound chip working. And I also found DOS networking drivers for the Broadcom BC57780 chip. The 1.6GHz Intel Atom N280 sucks for Windows 7 (it’s only a single core with HyperThreading), is ok for a lightweight Linux (like Tiny Core Linux) or Windows XP and absolutely blazes for DOS gaming. Best part is that it sips power at 12W (running at full tilt) and is fanless. The BIOS is super compatible with modern hardware. You can boot DOS off SATA, 44-pin IDE or off any of the 8 USB ports (two of which are hidden so you can treat it like a hard drive). You can also boot off USB Floppy or USB CD-ROM drives. USB keyboards work well. I don't remember if I've tried CuteMouse with a USB mouse but I want to say the BIOS translates PS/2 protocol to the USB ports. On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 11:38 AM Dan Schmidt <hel...@gm...> wrote: > Hmm....(Scratching chin) Am I the only one on this thread thinking about > getting a dirt cheap t5740 to try to run a FreeDos thin client? Does > FreeDos run on Atom? > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 5:09 PM Louis Santillan via Freedos-user < > fre...@li...> wrote: > >> I agree with Eric. Something like an HP t5740, Dell Optiplex 9010 or 9020 >> or 790, is about $25 on eBay, runs DOS well, will run DOS well off a cheap >> 4-16GB USB drive, and will also come with 9-pin serial. The Dells might >> even be free on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist. >> >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 1:48 PM Eric Auer via Freedos-user < >> fre...@li...> wrote: >> >>> Depending on your planned expenses, you could also get a new or used >>> DOS-compatible computer with a physical RS232 port, which avoids all >>> USB issues. Most computers which still have a BIOS should work, while >>> computers which only support UEFI and no longer have a legacy BIOS >>> boot options are not suitable for running DOS directly on hardware. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Freedos-user mailing list >> Fre...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >> > |
From: Dilan R. <dil...@ya...> - 2024-09-13 20:12:36
|
you could also consider 86Box, if you havent heard of it before On Friday, 13 September 2024 at 20:40:21 GMT+2, Dan Schmidt via Freedos-user <fre...@li...> wrote: Hmm....(Scratching chin) Am I the only one on this thread thinking about getting a dirt cheap t5740 to try to run a FreeDos thin client? Does FreeDos run on Atom? On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 5:09 PM Louis Santillan via Freedos-user <fre...@li...> wrote: I agree with Eric. Something like an HP t5740, Dell Optiplex 9010 or 9020 or 790, is about $25 on eBay, runs DOS well, will run DOS well off a cheap 4-16GB USB drive, and will also come with 9-pin serial. The Dells might even be free on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist. On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 1:48 PM Eric Auer via Freedos-user <fre...@li...> wrote: Depending on your planned expenses, you could also get a new or used DOS-compatible computer with a physical RS232 port, which avoids all USB issues. Most computers which still have a BIOS should work, while computers which only support UEFI and no longer have a legacy BIOS boot options are not suitable for running DOS directly on hardware. _______________________________________________ Freedos-user mailing list Fre...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user _______________________________________________ Freedos-user mailing list Fre...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user |
From: Dan S. <hel...@gm...> - 2024-09-13 18:38:37
|
Hmm....(Scratching chin) Am I the only one on this thread thinking about getting a dirt cheap t5740 to try to run a FreeDos thin client? Does FreeDos run on Atom? On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 5:09 PM Louis Santillan via Freedos-user < fre...@li...> wrote: > I agree with Eric. Something like an HP t5740, Dell Optiplex 9010 or 9020 > or 790, is about $25 on eBay, runs DOS well, will run DOS well off a cheap > 4-16GB USB drive, and will also come with 9-pin serial. The Dells might > even be free on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist. > > On Sat, Sep 7, 2024 at 1:48 PM Eric Auer via Freedos-user < > fre...@li...> wrote: > >> Depending on your planned expenses, you could also get a new or used >> DOS-compatible computer with a physical RS232 port, which avoids all >> USB issues. Most computers which still have a BIOS should work, while >> computers which only support UEFI and no longer have a legacy BIOS >> boot options are not suitable for running DOS directly on hardware. >> > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-user mailing list > Fre...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > |
From: Nico V. <nic...@zi...> - 2024-09-13 13:11:41
|
I have succesfullyconnect to a synology ds216j NAS through ftp. Now to map it as a drive Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone > Op 12 sep 2024 om 20:17 heeft Frantisek Rysanek <Fra...@po...> het volgende geschreven: > > >> >> Now let's see if I can connect to my NAS . > > I assume that the NAS principally serves CIFS/SMB = runs Samba. > Or that's probably what you're after. > > There's a chance to connect to that using Microsoft networking. > That's the *third* flavour of DOS networking, not discussed yet: > NDIS. You should have no problem to find an NDIS-flavoured driver for > your NIC HW. > On the Microsoft networking side, you need one of: > Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for MS-DOS > Microsoft Lan Manager 2.2a or 2.2c > > A snippet of further reading (I'm repeating myself and advertising my > own scribble): > http://support.fccps.cz/download/adv/frr/cups_howto/cups_howto.htm#dos > > If you want, you can have a CRYNWR interface available from the same > driver stack - you need to also load ndispkt. > > On the Samba side, you will need to "drop some defences" = permit > older authentication features and older SMB protocol versions. > Compile-time defaults in modern versions of Samba have deprecated the > old standards, but AFAICT, the old stuff can still be enabled by way > of runtime configuration (smb.conf). You should have a clue if your > NAS OS/FW allows you to tamper such details of its config. > > If the NAS has a web interface, you can try some browser from DOS. > Perhaps don't expect much, if the interface relies heavily on CSS or > JavaScript (a decade ago, I'd say Java or ActiveX :-) > > If the NAS can serve FTP, you can use M.Brutman's client - or any > other you can put your hands on. > > Good luck and have fun. > > Frank > |
From: Frantisek R. <Fra...@po...> - 2024-09-12 18:17:36
|
> Now let's see if I can connect to my NAS . I assume that the NAS principally serves CIFS/SMB = runs Samba. Or that's probably what you're after. There's a chance to connect to that using Microsoft networking. That's the *third* flavour of DOS networking, not discussed yet: NDIS. You should have no problem to find an NDIS-flavoured driver for your NIC HW. On the Microsoft networking side, you need one of: Microsoft Network Client 3.0 for MS-DOS Microsoft Lan Manager 2.2a or 2.2c A snippet of further reading (I'm repeating myself and advertising my own scribble): http://support.fccps.cz/download/adv/frr/cups_howto/cups_howto.htm#dos If you want, you can have a CRYNWR interface available from the same driver stack - you need to also load ndispkt. On the Samba side, you will need to "drop some defences" = permit older authentication features and older SMB protocol versions. Compile-time defaults in modern versions of Samba have deprecated the old standards, but AFAICT, the old stuff can still be enabled by way of runtime configuration (smb.conf). You should have a clue if your NAS OS/FW allows you to tamper such details of its config. If the NAS has a web interface, you can try some browser from DOS. Perhaps don't expect much, if the interface relies heavily on CSS or JavaScript (a decade ago, I'd say Java or ActiveX :-) If the NAS can serve FTP, you can use M.Brutman's client - or any other you can put your hands on. Good luck and have fun. Frank |
From: <nic...@zi...> - 2024-09-12 13:04:32
|
I had an old RTL8139 lying around so I switched of the internal LAN controller. Put this in the slot. Did the steps here: https://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/network/ndis_ins.htm works like a charm. And maybe... once upon a time in the future I might look into getting the other controller toe work. Now let's see if I can connect to my NAS 😊. Thank you all for the ideas. Nico Netherlands -----Original Message----- From: Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user <fre...@li...> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2024 12:07 PM To: fre...@li... Cc: Frantisek Rysanek <Fra...@po...> Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Networking on a Pentium 4 > Load the “lsl.com ”driver by running the command Load the > “e1000odi.com” driver by running the command ... > Many folks use DHCP and mTCP on FreeDOS. I believe that for M.Brutman's software, you need the CRYNWR "packet driver" interface. You have loaded two low-level elements of the driver stack needed for Novell networking. If you don't really mean to follow up with more Novell stuff, but instead want to try CRYNWR-based apps, there's the option to add odipkt.com on top, and *then* set up M.Brutman's TCP/IP stuff. Another way would be, to get a native packet driver for the Intel e1000 series. I'd say E1000PKT.COM. https://packetdriversdos.net/ https://github.com/ulrich-hansen/E1000PKT Appears to be a 3rd-party open-source driver, not Intel's in-house software. Chances are, that if Intel's own ODI driver breaks the SATA controller's interrupt service (due to a shared IRQ), the open-source E1000 packet driver still has a chance of working fine. (Being a whole different codebase, may be more sensitive about hooking the ISR vector, may have a different memory footprint and whatnot). Also, if the OP is using the disk controller via the stock BIOS routines (which may use UDMA on their own, which is generally allright), and he suspects that loading an Ethernet driver breaks disk access, he should try loading a dedicated driver for the IDE Controller - which will take over the disk service from the BIOS, and may be more tolerant to shared PCI IRQ handling quirks than the stock BIOS routines. Perhaps the most up-to-date "alternative IDE driver for DOS" is Japheth's XDMA32.DLL, companion/addon to his JEMM386. https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/Jemm To download the current binaries in a ZIP archive, click the link to the current release on the right (v5.84 at the moment). Use the JLOAD tool to load the XDMA32.DLL. When trying to solve an IRQ conflict where disk access gets jammed, you probably want to load the disk controller driver before you load a driver for your NIC. Wouldn't work the other way around :-) Or maybe, set up a RAM disk, load everything you need into the RAM disk, then you can shrug your shoulders about the HDD, and load your NIC driver... Frank _______________________________________________ Freedos-user mailing list Fre...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user |
From: Frantisek R. <Fra...@po...> - 2024-09-12 10:09:36
|
> Load the “lsl.com ”driver by running the command > Load the “e1000odi.com” driver by running the command ... > Many folks use DHCP and mTCP on FreeDOS. I believe that for M.Brutman's software, you need the CRYNWR "packet driver" interface. You have loaded two low-level elements of the driver stack needed for Novell networking. If you don't really mean to follow up with more Novell stuff, but instead want to try CRYNWR-based apps, there's the option to add odipkt.com on top, and *then* set up M.Brutman's TCP/IP stuff. Another way would be, to get a native packet driver for the Intel e1000 series. I'd say E1000PKT.COM. https://packetdriversdos.net/ https://github.com/ulrich-hansen/E1000PKT Appears to be a 3rd-party open-source driver, not Intel's in-house software. Chances are, that if Intel's own ODI driver breaks the SATA controller's interrupt service (due to a shared IRQ), the open-source E1000 packet driver still has a chance of working fine. (Being a whole different codebase, may be more sensitive about hooking the ISR vector, may have a different memory footprint and whatnot). Also, if the OP is using the disk controller via the stock BIOS routines (which may use UDMA on their own, which is generally allright), and he suspects that loading an Ethernet driver breaks disk access, he should try loading a dedicated driver for the IDE Controller - which will take over the disk service from the BIOS, and may be more tolerant to shared PCI IRQ handling quirks than the stock BIOS routines. Perhaps the most up-to-date "alternative IDE driver for DOS" is Japheth's XDMA32.DLL, companion/addon to his JEMM386. https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/Jemm To download the current binaries in a ZIP archive, click the link to the current release on the right (v5.84 at the moment). Use the JLOAD tool to load the XDMA32.DLL. When trying to solve an IRQ conflict where disk access gets jammed, you probably want to load the disk controller driver before you load a driver for your NIC. Wouldn't work the other way around :-) Or maybe, set up a RAM disk, load everything you need into the RAM disk, then you can shrug your shoulders about the HDD, and load your NIC driver... Frank |
From: Louis S. <lps...@gm...> - 2024-09-12 02:18:04
|
And see this thread if you have issues ( https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=47428&start=20) On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:13 PM Louis Santillan <lps...@gm...> wrote: > Download the ASUS mobo drivers ( > > https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/lan/intelan/CSA/DOS_OS2.zip?model=P4C800-E%20Deluxe > ). > > Extract & place onto your DOS machine the files from the PRO1000 folder > (PRO100 may also work/work better it would follow the same process). > > Load the “lsl.com” driver by running the command > > Load the “e1000odi.com” driver by running the command > > Eventually, you may want to load these high (LOADHIGH or LH) in > “fdauto.bat”/“autoexec.bat” but validate that they work first. > > Assign an IP in your network to the NIC with your TCP/IP stack using DHCP > or static assignment. Many folks use DHCP and mTCP on FreeDOS. Using that > it’s “SET MTCPCFG=C:\MTCP.CFG > DHCP” > Follow the docs if you need to do something else to make your NIC work. ( > http://www.brutman.com/mTCP/download/mTCP_2023-03-31.pdf) > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:01 AM nico.verduin--- via Freedos-user < > fre...@li...> wrote: > >> This more or less driving me crazy: >> >> >> >> I have a ASUS P4C800E Deluxe motherboard with a builtin Intel 82547EI >> Gigabit LAN controller. >> >> >> >> Does anybody have a clear instruction how to get this working with >> freedos 1.3? >> >> >> >> It is very unclear to me and I trie an ODI driver. That worked but then a >> cannot access the CDROM? >> >> >> >> I am a bit lost…. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Nico >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Freedos-user mailing list >> Fre...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >> > |
From: Louis S. <lps...@gm...> - 2024-09-12 02:17:27
|
I don’t think anything this complex happened. I imagine that OP ran out of UMB or HMA memory space and the CDROM driver or SHSUCDX failed to load properly. On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 11:22 AM Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user < fre...@li...> wrote: > DOS on "modern" PC hardware struggles with too many IRQ sources > sharing just the few legacy IRQ lines/inputs = up to IRQ 15 included. > |
From: Louis S. <lps...@gm...> - 2024-09-12 02:14:08
|
Download the ASUS mobo drivers ( https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/lan/intelan/CSA/DOS_OS2.zip?model=P4C800-E%20Deluxe ). Extract & place onto your DOS machine the files from the PRO1000 folder (PRO100 may also work/work better it would follow the same process). Load the “lsl.com” driver by running the command Load the “e1000odi.com” driver by running the command Eventually, you may want to load these high (LOADHIGH or LH) in “fdauto.bat”/“autoexec.bat” but validate that they work first. Assign an IP in your network to the NIC with your TCP/IP stack using DHCP or static assignment. Many folks use DHCP and mTCP on FreeDOS. Using that it’s “SET MTCPCFG=C:\MTCP.CFG DHCP” Follow the docs if you need to do something else to make your NIC work. ( http://www.brutman.com/mTCP/download/mTCP_2023-03-31.pdf) On Wed, Sep 11, 2024 at 7:01 AM nico.verduin--- via Freedos-user < fre...@li...> wrote: > This more or less driving me crazy: > > > > I have a ASUS P4C800E Deluxe motherboard with a builtin Intel 82547EI > Gigabit LAN controller. > > > > Does anybody have a clear instruction how to get this working with freedos > 1.3? > > > > It is very unclear to me and I trie an ODI driver. That worked but then a > cannot access the CDROM? > > > > I am a bit lost…. > > > > Regards > > Nico > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-user mailing list > Fre...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > |
From: Frantisek R. <Fra...@po...> - 2024-09-11 18:21:46
|
DOS on "modern" PC hardware struggles with too many IRQ sources sharing just the few legacy IRQ lines/inputs = up to IRQ 15 included. I'd hazard a guess that your PCI LAN controller ends up sharing an IRQ with the IDE/SATA controller. As the PCI NIC is onboard, I suspect that you have no way of changing that. If it was a board in a PCI slot, I'd suggest moving it to a different PCI slot. There are 4 IRQ signals in a PCI bus, that get "rotated", like a braid, between consecutive PCI slots. Onboard devices just get routed to an available GSI (input) on the chipset's IO APIC, and it's very unlikely that a generic ATX motherboard would allow you to affect the routing/mapping of that IRQ unfortunately :-( And, unfortunately the BIOS has its own idea, where that IRQ got routed, and to correct it on your own, you'd have to not only reprogram the IO/APIC, and the IRQ register in the PCI config space for the NIC device, you'd also have to hook the PCI BIOS service routine to return the correct IRQ to the NIC driver probing while getting started... this is unlikely. Try with any NIC in a PCI slot :-( Or boot Linux, let it use its drivers and IRQ handling, and run DOS in a VM. Frank To: <fre...@li...> Date sent: Wed, 11 Sep 2024 16:00:51 +0200 Subject: [Freedos-user] Networking on a Pentium 4 From: "nico.verduin--- via Freedos-user" <fre...@li...> Send reply to: "Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS." <fre...@li...> Copies to: nic...@zi... > This more or less driving me crazy: > > I have a ASUS P4C800E Deluxe motherboard with a builtin Intel > 82547EI Gigabit LAN controller. > > Does anybody have a clear instruction how to get this working with > freedos 1.3? > > It is very unclear to me and I trie an ODI driver. That worked but > then a cannot access the CDROM? > > I am a bit lost…. > > Regards > Nico > > |
From: <nic...@zi...> - 2024-09-11 14:01:12
|
This more or less driving me crazy: I have a ASUS P4C800E Deluxe motherboard with a builtin Intel 82547EI Gigabit LAN controller. Does anybody have a clear instruction how to get this working with freedos 1.3? It is very unclear to me and I trie an ODI driver. That worked but then a cannot access the CDROM? I am a bit lost.. Regards Nico |
From: Karen L. <kle...@sh...> - 2024-09-10 18:16:56
|
Hi frank, No need to apologize, its a understandable mistake. Text to speech may be one of the most abusing phrases for how adaptive technology actually works that I can personally think of, speaking for myself of course. Indeed there are ways to, as you outline, send characters to a synthesizer. but screen reader software programs are more like talking monitors at their most basic. cheers, Karen On Tue, 10 Sep 2024, Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user wrote: > Dear Karen, > >> From my DOS desktop I am using a DOS ssh program into a Linux >> shell where I run Linux programs. My screen reader program >> processes all items on the he screen and so forth. > > Oh I see now :-) > The DOS screen just displays what it gets from the SSH client > program, effectively a terminal emulator. In this particular > scenario, the speech synthesizer attached to DOS, does have a good > chance of working just right, while the DOS user is reading e-mail > via SSH on some Linux instance. > > Sounds like a neat workaround :-) > Somehow I didn't get the plot from your earlier messages - apologies. > > Frank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-user mailing list > Fre...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > |
From: Frantisek R. <Fra...@po...> - 2024-09-10 18:06:22
|
Dear Karen, > From my DOS desktop I am using a DOS ssh program into a Linux > shell where I run Linux programs. My screen reader program > processes all items on the he screen and so forth. Oh I see now :-) The DOS screen just displays what it gets from the SSH client program, effectively a terminal emulator. In this particular scenario, the speech synthesizer attached to DOS, does have a good chance of working just right, while the DOS user is reading e-mail via SSH on some Linux instance. Sounds like a neat workaround :-) Somehow I didn't get the plot from your earlier messages - apologies. Frank |
From: Karen L. <kle...@sh...> - 2024-09-09 18:18:25
|
Hi there, Will pass on the simulation suggestion. where I wish to ask a question is about your sense that a screen reader, which is not only a a passing of character strings from the computer to a hardware synthesizer will not be able to read the Linux Console? In theory, I am doing something comparative to write this message. >From my DOS desktop I am using a DOS ssh program into a Linux shell where I run Linux programs. My screen reader program processes all items on the he screen and so forth. granted I am not using USB for this, and my hardware is not using serial..but it could, if I used a different synthesizer source. every post I have ever made to the freedos list using the same process. Is it that the simulated serial port will not actually function as a physical serial port? Thanks for your wisdom, Karen On Mon, 9 Sep 2024, Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user wrote: > ...regarding running DOS in a VM guest (emulation) and having > plausible RS232 UART emulation: > > I'd hazard a guess that qemu-kvm does strive to deliver this: > > https://serverfault.com/questions/872238/qemu-and-serial-ports-on-the- > guest-os > > root@hv:~$ qemu-system-x86_64 -device isa-serial,help > isa-serial options: > baudbase=<uint32> - (default: 115200) > chardev=<str> - ID of a chardev to use as a backend > index=<uint32> - (default: 4294967295) > iobase=<uint32> - (default: 4294967295) > irq=<uint32> - (default: 4294967295) > serial=<child<serial>> > wakeup=<bool> - (default: false) > > https://github.com/qemu/qemu/blob/master/hw/char/serial-isa.c > > Obviously the question remains, how faithful this emulation is to a > hardware device,and what the requirements are, of the "application" = > the software app, the firmware in the motorola radioes etc. > > Regarding speech synthesis... if this serial port (in the guest VM) > is used to send strings to an external physical speech synth box, and > the vision is, that the synth's "screen spider software" will run in > the emulated DOS, note that this means that it will only ever read > the screens produced by the guest VM and its DOS - the user won't be > able to use the DOS reader, running in a VM, to read the Linux > console belonging to the host... > > Frank > > > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-user mailing list > Fre...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > |
From: Frantisek R. <Fra...@po...> - 2024-09-08 22:17:21
|
...regarding running DOS in a VM guest (emulation) and having plausible RS232 UART emulation: I'd hazard a guess that qemu-kvm does strive to deliver this: https://serverfault.com/questions/872238/qemu-and-serial-ports-on-the- guest-os root@hv:~$ qemu-system-x86_64 -device isa-serial,help isa-serial options: baudbase=<uint32> - (default: 115200) chardev=<str> - ID of a chardev to use as a backend index=<uint32> - (default: 4294967295) iobase=<uint32> - (default: 4294967295) irq=<uint32> - (default: 4294967295) serial=<child<serial>> wakeup=<bool> - (default: false) https://github.com/qemu/qemu/blob/master/hw/char/serial-isa.c Obviously the question remains, how faithful this emulation is to a hardware device,and what the requirements are, of the "application" = the software app, the firmware in the motorola radioes etc. Regarding speech synthesis... if this serial port (in the guest VM) is used to send strings to an external physical speech synth box, and the vision is, that the synth's "screen spider software" will run in the emulated DOS, note that this means that it will only ever read the screens produced by the guest VM and its DOS - the user won't be able to use the DOS reader, running in a VM, to read the Linux console belonging to the host... Frank |
From: Frantisek R. <Fra...@po...> - 2024-09-08 21:37:12
|
Regarding maintenance of Motorola radios: I used to have a colleague in that business. He always kept an old PC with a legacy serial port (16C550A UART) running Windows 95 I believe. In those "pre-NT" Windows editions, DOS apps still had direct access to hardware, DOS style. I understand that some of the old maintenance apps for radio stations (in DOS) did require a standard physical UART (8250 or 16550 compatible). I'd like to mention that DMP and ICOP still make x86 SoC's and motherboards that have legacy UART's (integrated on chip) as well as USB. I recall an obscure problem in some historical revision of the Vortex86 SoC silicon, in the UART, where the two baud divisor bytes had to be written in a particular order (not in reverse order) otherwise the baud didn't come out allright. I cannot quantify this more precisely (I don't have records). Someone has mentioned second-hand DELL PC's... I remember once meeting a Dell PC (during late naughties?) where the modem signals (DTR I guess) behaved pretty weird. The voltage was allright, but the sequencing was wrong. ICOP hardware might work for the speech synthesizer application too. Frank |
From: Karen L. <kle...@sh...> - 2024-09-08 18:40:23
|
Hi g. W. Writing with a question, and an answer to your USB keyboard situation. For the record, I am typing with one, right now, in DOS which is the only operating system on my computer. However, which leads to the question. My BIOS has USB support, and at first that was enough to run the keyboard, no other drivers required. Does the computer you intend for this keyboard support USB at the bios level? if so, it can work on its own. Still, I added the at first to my sentence above because I use a fine USB dos driver. Once I got that installed on my currently new for me computer the keyboard works much better. its a small thing I type very fast, with my keystrokes spoken, so noticed the wrong thongs announced even with the right things typed. In short though, if the computer you have in mind supports USB at the BIOS level, it should work without issue. I do have a copy of the DOS browser, but I only send it privately. May I personally applaud your dedication to solid DOS based business practices! Cheers, Karen On Sun, 8 Sep 2024, G.W. Haywood via Freedos-user wrote: > Hi there, > > If you're not interested in the background, please skip to THE QUESTION. :) > > On Saturday, June 1st, 2024 at 2:51 AM, Roger via Freedos-user wrote: > >> Would be really interesting to hear, how people continue actively using >> DOS today, including their hardware/software environment. ... > > See below. I hope it's interesting. > > On Mon, 3 June, 2024 at nine seconds before midnight Jim Hall wrote: > >> ... I met with someone last year who uses FreeDOS to drive a >> CNC router to make actual products. (CNC = "Computer Numerical >> Control" .. that is the fancy term for "a machine controlled by a >> computer.) I recall that the CNC was running from a Dell PC, and they >> had a serial selector that let the PC control two (or three?) >> different CNC routers .. but one at a time. > > Maybe I can help the guy. :) More on that later. > > But this is more of a quest for information than an offer of help. > > About 40 years ago I started writing software to help run my business. > We still use it, as do several customers. I'm still working on it as > the government keeps moving the goal posts - but that's another story. > > It's all on bare metal except for the build system (it's compiled in a > DOS emulator) and for some development, both just for convenience. > > Initially it only ran on DOS, and for serious use (e.g. sending bills > to customers) it's still only used on DOS although since the early 2ks > it has also run on Linux, mostly for maintenance and training. On DOS > there were several ways of using more than the base 640k of memory but > over the years most of them fell by the wayside; my make files still > theoretically can build several different 'models', but for many years > I've built only DPMI executables using the venerable X32 DOS extender. > The C/C++ compiler and a few libraries are the original Zortech tools > which I actually paid for back in the day. They've been upgraded over > the years and are now provided free by Digital Mars, but I'm terrified > of unexpected issues so I've never upgraded them. There were quite a > few gremlins in the early days, some of them not immediately obvious. > The tools I'm using now are those which have stood the test of time. > > As far as the business uses are concerned there's no particular reason > to move from DOS, and there are good reasons not to move (particularly > the need for caution with business data) but I'm considering FreeDOS > for a number of reasons, listed here I guess in ascending priority: > > 1. Debugging - for example I have some machines which will apparently > run DOS, but not my business software. It isn't easy to debug MS-DOS. > > 2. Development - it might make some things easier for me. It could be > useful to have a DOS network connection for development but I'll avoid > it like the plague for systems with real business data. > > 3. Probably the most pressing right now, USB support. Few machines > thesedays are equipped with PS/2 keyboard connectors. Thus far I've > simply relied on older gear. Eventually that won't be an option, so > I'd like now to set up a FreeDOS system which uses a USB keyboard. > > THE QUESTION > 8<---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I've looked at quite a bit of the documentation (and as you see in the > mailing list archives) but I haven't seen it written in so many words. > So here's the main question: Will FreeDOS, out of the box, work on a > machine with a USB keyboard? Several of the threads I've seen here > seem to be telling me that the answer is 'no'. I've seen a couple of > stand-alone USB drivers for DOS mentioned here and there with caveats, > but I haven't seriously looked at them yet. > > If there's experience Out There which may smooth my path I'll be very > grateful to hear it. I'm sort of expecting that I'll have to load a > third-party driver early in the boot process. That's OK I suppose. > 8<---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Getting back to the CNC machines and serial ports... > > Some time in the early 1990s my mother suggested that it would save a > lot of time if she could have a workstation instead of having to wait > for my sister's workstation to be free. This was her idea, not mine, > and I feel the need to be clear about that. So I set about making my > single-user business software package into a multi-user package. DOS > was still the operating system, but it now supports multiple users on > serial terminals, up to the limit of the hardware support. It took a > while to get right, and it's a bit weird (for example some things can > only be done safely when other things aren't being done) but with some > cooperative working by the users it's supported several businesses for > several decades. In my own business a 33MHz 386 with ISA multi-serial > cards has supported a dozen concurrent users. I think several hundred > users would probably be no trouble on a machine with a similar sort of > specification if you could just get the hardware. This is based on my > knowledge of the performance of the software and the system components > and I haven't ever even simulated it. Some work in assembly language > would be needed to use PCI serial cards other than in legacy mode, but > I plan to do that whenever I get a minute. I haven't really thought > about USB/serial converters although I so use them on several Linux > boxes. Amongst other things the DOS business software can use a Linux > box as a sort of go-between to transmit data to the government (which > is now required here by law) and to send business documents (invoices, > credit notes, statements) by email instead of printing paper forms. > > Maybe these techniques could find application with the CNC machines, > it might be worth mentioning it to the guy if you bump into him again. > > -- > > 73, > Ged. > > > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-user mailing list > Fre...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > |
From: Karen L. <kle...@sh...> - 2024-09-08 18:24:18
|
Eric, You are welcome...given your focus has nothing to do with the question though I will skip the rest. The question, for as a reminder, is if freedos has the ability to simulate a serial port, if the person intends to use a USB device, i. e. their computer has no serial port.The answer was no. drivers, perhaps Bret's of Georg's may provide the needed USB serial bridges. I will pass that information on to Larry so his Linux expert in California can research that door..since his goal is a virtual DOS from which he can use his chosen screen reader tools in Linux. Otherwise the thread as Joseph I am concerned is closed. Still hope Joseph Norton is well however. Karen On Sun, 8 Sep 2024, Eric Auer wrote: > > Thank you for the license warning, Karen. The github page links e.g.: > > https://bluegrasspals.com/pipermail/dectalk/2020-June/005253.html > > https://bluegrasspals.com/pipermail/dectalk/2015-October/004517.html > > So it is probably not a good idea to use Dectalk as Linux synth. > > Which brings us back to the Dectalk USB. Luckily, it also has RS232. > > For DOS, I would recommend to use the RS232 connector and RS232 mode. > > If that PC has no RS232, the next choice are USB to serial cables. > Which you may use with generic DOS USB serial drivers, or emulators. > > If RS232 mode of the Dectalk USB is not satisfactory, USB mode exists. > > I wonder if you can use DOS software for RS232 based Dectalk Express > with Dectalk USB in USB mode once you install a generic driver for USB > serial bridges. Or by using an emulator in which the entire DOS runs. > > Given that I do not know the answer for that, I would say the other two ways > to use the device with DOS are more fool-proof than pure USB mode. > >> There is no existing screen reader in Linux that is fully >> comparative to DOS programs. > > When I checked years ago, BRLTTY helped with braille screen access: > > https://brltty.app/ > > https://github.com/brltty/brltty > > It also supports some speech synths: Alva Delphi, Blazie BrailleLite, Elan > Televox, IBM ViaVoice, Tieman CombiBraille and University of Edinburgh > Festival. > > So while not being a pure screen reader, it may still be useful. > > The default screen reader for the Linux Gnome GUI apparently still is Orca. I > do not know whether it is considered a comfortable option: > > https://orca.gnome.org/ > > There also is Voxin, but I have never heard of that before: > > https://voxin.oralux.net/ > > it seems to be related to Emacspeak, Fenrir, Orca, etc. > > Regards, Eric > > > > |
From: Daniel E. <es...@ie...> - 2024-09-08 17:46:17
|
This is more of an fyi than an answer to anything. During the Vietnam War, Richard Piick developed a system for the Marine Corp to manage the helicopter spare parts inventory. It combine an os, a database, query language and report writer. In the early 80's t was released for the 8086 pc (ibm AT). It required only 640 k memory an 20 mb hd and supported up to 16 users on serial terminals. It was multi-user but single-tasking. It was used for many business applications and became the goto system for early healthcare systems in the UK and Australia. I used it to build a medical charting system for doctors and added a billing module. I demoed on a compaq portable III with a 5-1/4 " floppy, 20 meg hd and 4 accessory serial ports. It was anything but "open source". It was later ported to various linux platforms It is still on the market and many users. I don't thing they offer any version for bare-metal intel boxes. If it wasn't for the drm the old pc versions would undoubtedly still run. It could probably be reverse engineered ( a lot of work). I mention this to illustrate the power of old hardware if used thoughtfully. I encourage you to chase your issues until they are resolved. On 9/8/2024 10:04 AM, G.W. Haywood via Freedos-user wrote: > Hi there, > > If you're not interested in the background, please skip to THE > QUESTION. :) > > On Saturday, June 1st, 2024 at 2:51 AM, Roger via Freedos-user wrote: > >> Would be really interesting to hear, how people continue actively using >> DOS today, including their hardware/software environment. ... > > See below. I hope it's interesting. > > On Mon, 3 June, 2024 at nine seconds before midnight Jim Hall wrote: > >> ... I met with someone last year who uses FreeDOS to drive a >> CNC router to make actual products. (CNC = "Computer Numerical >> Control" .. that is the fancy term for "a machine controlled by a >> computer.) I recall that the CNC was running from a Dell PC, and they >> had a serial selector that let the PC control two (or three?) >> different CNC routers .. but one at a time. > > Maybe I can help the guy. :) More on that later. > > But this is more of a quest for information than an offer of help. > > About 40 years ago I started writing software to help run my business. > We still use it, as do several customers. I'm still working on it as > the government keeps moving the goal posts - but that's another story. > > It's all on bare metal except for the build system (it's compiled in a > DOS emulator) and for some development, both just for convenience. > > Initially it only ran on DOS, and for serious use (e.g. sending bills > to customers) it's still only used on DOS although since the early 2ks > it has also run on Linux, mostly for maintenance and training. On DOS > there were several ways of using more than the base 640k of memory but > over the years most of them fell by the wayside; my make files still > theoretically can build several different 'models', but for many years > I've built only DPMI executables using the venerable X32 DOS extender. > The C/C++ compiler and a few libraries are the original Zortech tools > which I actually paid for back in the day. They've been upgraded over > the years and are now provided free by Digital Mars, but I'm terrified > of unexpected issues so I've never upgraded them. There were quite a > few gremlins in the early days, some of them not immediately obvious. > The tools I'm using now are those which have stood the test of time. > > As far as the business uses are concerned there's no particular reason > to move from DOS, and there are good reasons not to move (particularly > the need for caution with business data) but I'm considering FreeDOS > for a number of reasons, listed here I guess in ascending priority: > > 1. Debugging - for example I have some machines which will apparently > run DOS, but not my business software. It isn't easy to debug MS-DOS. > > 2. Development - it might make some things easier for me. It could be > useful to have a DOS network connection for development but I'll avoid > it like the plague for systems with real business data. > > 3. Probably the most pressing right now, USB support. Few machines > thesedays are equipped with PS/2 keyboard connectors. Thus far I've > simply relied on older gear. Eventually that won't be an option, so > I'd like now to set up a FreeDOS system which uses a USB keyboard. > > THE QUESTION > 8<---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I've looked at quite a bit of the documentation (and as you see in the > mailing list archives) but I haven't seen it written in so many words. > So here's the main question: Will FreeDOS, out of the box, work on a > machine with a USB keyboard? Several of the threads I've seen here > seem to be telling me that the answer is 'no'. I've seen a couple of > stand-alone USB drivers for DOS mentioned here and there with caveats, > but I haven't seriously looked at them yet. > > If there's experience Out There which may smooth my path I'll be very > grateful to hear it. I'm sort of expecting that I'll have to load a > third-party driver early in the boot process. That's OK I suppose. > 8<---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Getting back to the CNC machines and serial ports... > > Some time in the early 1990s my mother suggested that it would save a > lot of time if she could have a workstation instead of having to wait > for my sister's workstation to be free. This was her idea, not mine, > and I feel the need to be clear about that. So I set about making my > single-user business software package into a multi-user package. DOS > was still the operating system, but it now supports multiple users on > serial terminals, up to the limit of the hardware support. It took a > while to get right, and it's a bit weird (for example some things can > only be done safely when other things aren't being done) but with some > cooperative working by the users it's supported several businesses for > several decades. In my own business a 33MHz 386 with ISA multi-serial > cards has supported a dozen concurrent users. I think several hundred > users would probably be no trouble on a machine with a similar sort of > specification if you could just get the hardware. This is based on my > knowledge of the performance of the software and the system components > and I haven't ever even simulated it. Some work in assembly language > would be needed to use PCI serial cards other than in legacy mode, but > I plan to do that whenever I get a minute. I haven't really thought > about USB/serial converters although I so use them on several Linux > boxes. Amongst other things the DOS business software can use a Linux > box as a sort of go-between to transmit data to the government (which > is now required here by law) and to send business documents (invoices, > credit notes, statements) by email instead of printing paper forms. > > Maybe these techniques could find application with the CNC machines, > it might be worth mentioning it to the guy if you bump into him again. > |