freedos-user — FreeDOS general questions and other non-technical discussion

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.4 - why 2 discs, and not one?

[Jerome S. <je...@sh...>]

Hi Eric,

> On Apr 9, 2025, at 7:52 AM, Eric Auer via Freedos-user <fre...@li...> wrote:
> 
> Hello :-)
> 
>> I've counted that the two images of FreeDOS 1.4, live and bonus, amount to 355567 sectors. This is still within the realm of possibility to fit it all on one CD, as 80 minute CDs can hold 360k sectors. What influenced this decision to make 2 CDs and not one when one?
> 
> Looking at the docs (PS: why call 1200k and 1440k "120m" and "144m")...
> 
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.4/
> 
> LegacyCD 262M download, 267 MB ISO (uses "legacy" ElTorito boot)
> LiveCD 280M download, 302 MB ISO (uses new thing, bootable ramdisk?)
> BonusCD 383M download, 393 MB ISO
> 
> LiteUSB 17M download, 19 MB used
> FullUSB 638M download, 657 MB used
> 
> However, space for installation is 20/30 MB plain without/with sources
> and 275/450 MB full without/with sources, according to the readme. That
> number only is plausible if it does not include the Bonus CD packages?

The space requirements are fairly accurate. 

The size of the LiveCD is not a representation of the installed size requirements. First, the packages are compressed. Second, the LiveCD also includes some uncompressed versions. Those are used as a “fallback” version for systems that have minimal amounts of RAM and cannot expand the packages into a RAM drive. Third, it includes a copy of the Floppy Edition Install under a subdirectory. Fourth, it has several boot images (LiveCD boot, Install Boot, Thank you boot, plus a HD image of the Floppy Edition).

Among many things, those values are calculated by the RBE when building a release. It also takes into consideration how much it will use on a filesystem with 512k sectors. Those values are written into to release documents by the RBE.

But, yes. The packages on Bonus CD are not included in those calculations. 

However, it might be nice to add the requirements to install everything on the BonusCD as well.

> 
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.4/report.html
> 
> I see ctmouse still is "286+", but there should be an assembly-time
> option for 8086. I vaguely remember some forgotten 186 code years ago?

You are more than welcome to work on getting a 186 or 8086 version up and running for us to include in future releases. :-)

> 
> I had not expected keyb to be 286+ with mkeyb being all CPU: KEYB is
> supposed to have an XT compatible mode, while MKEYB needs int 15.4f:
> AT model 3x9, XT2, XT286, convertible, PS/2 or any non-ancient BIOS.
> 
> Also, SHSUCDX comes in two versions: 8086 and 386+, the latter being
> 0.1 kB smaller, so I would not say it ALWAYS requires 386 CPU...
> 
> As we include 286+ ZIP and 386+ UNZIP, how do 8086 installs work?

It does not use zip. Nor does it the Floppy version have “packages” on the install media.

It uses SLICER a tag based archiver.

The installer figures out a couple system related things (like CPU, Virtual Machine, etc) and creates some related tags. It then tells SLICER to extract the sets of packages based on the tags. 

The SLICER archive is split up into optimally sized chunks for spreading across various sized diskettes. 

> 
> What does OTHER CPU for FDNET mean?

Do you mean on the Report?

When installing using the Floppy Edition, FDNET is only installed on known compatible Virtual Machines. Unlike CTMouse which is based on the CPU.

> 
> The Bonus CD is required for the categories boot tools, development,
> disk untilities, editors, gui and utilities. Large Bonus packages:
> 
> utility dosview 19 MB
> gui opengem 19 MB
> editor vim 12 MB
> 
> ...and multiple development Bonus packages:
> 
> Watcom Forth 23 MB
> Watcom C/C++ 30 MB
> SQLite 25 MB
> Perl 26 MB
> i16 new libraries 30 MB binutils 10 MB etc. > 55 MB total
> FreePascal 34 MB
> FreeBASIC 19 MB (plus 4 MB help)
> DoJS 42 MB
> 
> Note that DJGPP is absent from the distro at the moment. You can
> collect 100s of MB of DJGPP packages, which would be a problem,
> but you may also include a small subset to compile e.g. DOSFSCK.
> 
> So... the current distro misses a few 8086 compatibility chances
> and happens to be small enough to barely fit a plus size CD-R/RW.
> 
> Interestingly, the INSTALLED packages would easily fit a CD, too.
> 
> Of course you would need a different method of installing from
> "installed on a live CD" to fixed disk IF you want users to have
> more choice than just a fixed "FDISK FORMAT XCOPY SYS" script.

I think simply having everything extracted on a LiveCD is a terrible idea for a couple reasons…

Real CDs make bad hard drives. Their very noisy and the seek times take forever. They are much better at continuous reads of larger files.

Not extracting to a RAM disk also means, you must not remove the disc from the drive. There would be not boot then pop in your 30 year old shareware disc. It would be the FreeDOS Live only.

At present, on a system with sufficient RAM (about 48Mb) the LiveCD will completely switch over to running FreeDOS from the RAM drive. There is no problem removing boot disc. 

> 
> On the other hand, you would not longer have to install some
> (which? I do not see a list in the report?) packages from ZIP
> to RAMDISK when using the Live CD. How much RAM do you need to
> use EVERYTHING excluding Bonus with the Live CD, by the way?
> 
> I personally think we could EITHER make the live CD fully live
> and pre-installed (few packages will need writeable directories).
> 
> OR we could offer a combined live-and-bonus CD as download.
> 
> Given that the FullUSB download already offers exactly that,
> the main packages and the bonus packages in a single download,

The USB images do not offer a Live Environment. 

However, there is a neat little trick using the Floppy Edition Installer (included in a sub directory on the FullUSB) that will turn the USB image from an “install only” to a “portable dos” stick. 

> 
> I would say there is little need for a combined CD. People
> can easily burn TWO CD if they prefer CD instead of USB and
> the required download sizes will be very similar either way.

Yup.

> 
> Also, it saves a bit of bandwidth if people have to decide
> if they want to burn both CD and burning is more reliable
> if you do not use the full capacity of the largest CD type.
> Jerome also mentions that point.

Yep. 

> 
> So *I would suggest to keep the ISO downloads two-part* :-)
> 
> It also allows us to add packages without removing others,
> as Jerome just pointed out, too.
> 
> But *I also suggest to make the Live CD fully pre-installed*

Strongly disagree with completely pre-installed. Never be able to remove the disc. Also, some programs will likely have issues with a read-only drive.

Oh, if there is sufficient RAM, FDIMPLES can be used on the current LiveCD to install other packages.

If there is enough space left on the RAM drive, you can even remove the LiveCD, put in the BonusCD, run FDIMPLES, install NASM (to the RAM drive), then start programming in Assembly. All without ever installing FreeDOS to the hard drive.

:-)

> and/or document RAM and write requirements of Live CD use.

As for RAM requirements… 

It is more of a “more RAM” equals “more features” as opposed to a hard requirement.

It goes from completely running from disc, Up to fully running from RAM. It just depends on how much RAM is available.

Not all RAM is allocated to a RAM drive. I forget the exact numbers but a portion is left unallocated for programs to use as XMS. 

> 
> In addition, I would suggest some 8086 compatibility updates
> and an update to the README to list Bonus space requirements.
> 
> Best regards, Eric
> 
> PS: I think Rugxulo has some experience with required space
> for useful subsets of Watcom C or DJGPP. Suggestions please.
> 

Jerome

> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.4 - why 2 discs, and not one?

[Eric A. <e....@jp...>]

Hello :-)

> I've counted that the two images of FreeDOS 1.4, live and bonus, amount 
> to 355567 sectors. This is still within the realm of possibility to fit 
> it all on one CD, as 80 minute CDs can hold 360k sectors. What 
> influenced this decision to make 2 CDs and not one when one?

Looking at the docs (PS: why call 1200k and 1440k "120m" and "144m")...

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.4/

LegacyCD 262M download, 267 MB ISO (uses "legacy" ElTorito boot)
LiveCD 280M download, 302 MB ISO (uses new thing, bootable ramdisk?)
BonusCD 383M download, 393 MB ISO

LiteUSB 17M download, 19 MB used
FullUSB 638M download, 657 MB used

However, space for installation is 20/30 MB plain without/with sources
and 275/450 MB full without/with sources, according to the readme. That
number only is plausible if it does not include the Bonus CD packages?

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.4/report.html

I see ctmouse still is "286+", but there should be an assembly-time
option for 8086. I vaguely remember some forgotten 186 code years ago?

I had not expected keyb to be 286+ with mkeyb being all CPU: KEYB is
supposed to have an XT compatible mode, while MKEYB needs int 15.4f:
AT model 3x9, XT2, XT286, convertible, PS/2 or any non-ancient BIOS.

Also, SHSUCDX comes in two versions: 8086 and 386+, the latter being
0.1 kB smaller, so I would not say it ALWAYS requires 386 CPU...

As we include 286+ ZIP and 386+ UNZIP, how do 8086 installs work?

What does OTHER CPU for FDNET mean?

The Bonus CD is required for the categories boot tools, development,
disk untilities, editors, gui and utilities. Large Bonus packages:

utility dosview 19 MB
gui opengem 19 MB
editor vim 12 MB

...and multiple development Bonus packages:

Watcom Forth 23 MB
Watcom C/C++ 30 MB
SQLite 25 MB
Perl 26 MB
i16 new libraries 30 MB binutils 10 MB etc. > 55 MB total
FreePascal 34 MB
FreeBASIC 19 MB (plus 4 MB help)
DoJS 42 MB

Note that DJGPP is absent from the distro at the moment. You can
collect 100s of MB of DJGPP packages, which would be a problem,
but you may also include a small subset to compile e.g. DOSFSCK.

So... the current distro misses a few 8086 compatibility chances
and happens to be small enough to barely fit a plus size CD-R/RW.

Interestingly, the INSTALLED packages would easily fit a CD, too.

Of course you would need a different method of installing from
"installed on a live CD" to fixed disk IF you want users to have
more choice than just a fixed "FDISK FORMAT XCOPY SYS" script.

On the other hand, you would not longer have to install some
(which? I do not see a list in the report?) packages from ZIP
to RAMDISK when using the Live CD. How much RAM do you need to
use EVERYTHING excluding Bonus with the Live CD, by the way?

I personally think we could EITHER make the live CD fully live
and pre-installed (few packages will need writeable directories).

OR we could offer a combined live-and-bonus CD as download.

Given that the FullUSB download already offers exactly that,
the main packages and the bonus packages in a single download,

I would say there is little need for a combined CD. People
can easily burn TWO CD if they prefer CD instead of USB and
the required download sizes will be very similar either way.

Also, it saves a bit of bandwidth if people have to decide
if they want to burn both CD and burning is more reliable
if you do not use the full capacity of the largest CD type.
Jerome also mentions that point.

So *I would suggest to keep the ISO downloads two-part* :-)

It also allows us to add packages without removing others,
as Jerome just pointed out, too.

But *I also suggest to make the Live CD fully pre-installed*
and/or document RAM and write requirements of Live CD use.

In addition, I would suggest some 8086 compatibility updates
and an update to the README to list Bonus space requirements.

Best regards, Eric

PS: I think Rugxulo has some experience with required space
for useful subsets of Watcom C or DJGPP. Suggestions please.

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.4 - why 2 discs, and not one?

[Michał D. <mo...@gm...>]

Hello Jerome,

Thank you very much. That sheds a lot of light on valid points and 
considerations that go beyond my personal use cases.

Best regards,

Michał

W dniu 9.04.2025 o 13:23, Jerome Shidel via Freedos-user pisze:
>
>> On Apr 9, 2025, at 6:14 AM, Michał Dec via Freedos-user <fre...@li...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I've counted that the two images of FreeDOS 1.4, live and bonus, amount to 355567 sectors. This is still within the realm of possibility to fit it all on one CD, as 80 minute CDs can hold 360k sectors. What influenced this decision to make 2 CDs and not one when one?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Michał
>>
> The original CD data capacity was 650Mb. Even though later on many manufacturers created disc that could store 700Mb of data, going beyond 650Mb really should be avoided for a couple reasons.
>
> The main  reason is that early CD drives often had problems beyond reading 650Mb. The further beyond that amount of data, the more likely it is to encounter a problem.
>
> A good general rule for DOS era hardware is to stick to 650Mb or less per disc.
>
> There are other reasons as well. For instance:
>
> FreeDOS 1.3 would was a had two CDs. We stuck with that for now. It allows for a smaller main CD and permits a faster download if nothing on the BonusCD is desired.
>
> It also leaves room on the discs for the possible addition of other packages without needing us to change from a single disc back to multiple discs.
>
> However, there is a possibility we may be dropping many packages from future OS releases. The dropped packages would remain online in our download repository. They just would no longer be included with the release.
>
> If that was to occur, it could drastically reduce the size requirements. We would then likely put everything on a single disc.
>
> Jerome
>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Freedos-user mailing list
>> Fre...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.4 - why 2 discs, and not one?

[Jerome S. <je...@sh...>]

> On Apr 9, 2025, at 6:14 AM, Michał Dec via Freedos-user <fre...@li...> wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I've counted that the two images of FreeDOS 1.4, live and bonus, amount to 355567 sectors. This is still within the realm of possibility to fit it all on one CD, as 80 minute CDs can hold 360k sectors. What influenced this decision to make 2 CDs and not one when one?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Michał
> 

The original CD data capacity was 650Mb. Even though later on many manufacturers created disc that could store 700Mb of data, going beyond 650Mb really should be avoided for a couple reasons. 

The main  reason is that early CD drives often had problems beyond reading 650Mb. The further beyond that amount of data, the more likely it is to encounter a problem. 

A good general rule for DOS era hardware is to stick to 650Mb or less per disc.

There are other reasons as well. For instance:

FreeDOS 1.3 would was a had two CDs. We stuck with that for now. It allows for a smaller main CD and permits a faster download if nothing on the BonusCD is desired.

It also leaves room on the discs for the possible addition of other packages without needing us to change from a single disc back to multiple discs.

However, there is a possibility we may be dropping many packages from future OS releases. The dropped packages would remain online in our download repository. They just would no longer be included with the release. 

If that was to occur, it could drastically reduce the size requirements. We would then likely put everything on a single disc.

Jerome

> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

[Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.4 - why 2 discs, and not one?

[Michał D. <mo...@gm...>]

Hello everyone,

I've counted that the two images of FreeDOS 1.4, live and bonus, amount 
to 355567 sectors. This is still within the realm of possibility to fit 
it all on one CD, as 80 minute CDs can hold 360k sectors. What 
influenced this decision to make 2 CDs and not one when one?

Best regards,

Michał

Re: [Freedos-user] News travels fast.

[Lukas K. <lu...@kr...>]

I'm really glad FreeDOS is making the news.

Good job everyone! This is still one of my favorite operating systems :)

On 4/8/25 03:49, Jerome Shidel via Freedos-user wrote:
> News of the FreeDOS 1.4 release is already making its way around the 
> world.
>
> For example, Ars Technica: 
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/04/fire-up-your-compaq-deskpro-freedos-1-4-is-the-first-stable-update-since-2022/ 
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] News travels fast.

[Bill A. <wal...@gm...>]

Congratulations, and thanks for all the work making this possible!


Best Regards,
Bill Allen


On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 8:50 PM Jerome Shidel via Freedos-user <
fre...@li...> wrote:

> News of the FreeDOS 1.4 release is already making its way around the
> world.
>
> For example, Ars Technica:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/04/fire-up-your-compaq-deskpro-freedos-1-4-is-the-first-stable-update-since-2022/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

[Freedos-user] News travels fast.

[<je...@sh...>]

News of the FreeDOS 1.4 release is already making its way around the world. 

For example, Ars Technica: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/04/fire-up-your-compaq-deskpro-freedos-1-4-is-the-first-stable-update-since-2022/ <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/04/fire-up-your-compaq-deskpro-freedos-1-4-is-the-first-stable-update-since-2022/>

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[Eric A. <e....@jp...>]

Hi Armin,

> Yes, i have a virtual syntesicer, wich runs on dos and a bridge, wich 
> connects to my nvda.
> 
> Second: I want to install free dos and the screenreader. I want to use 
> it on VMware workstation pro 17.

You may want to run DOS in something tuned for DOS instead,
which VMware probably is not? You could even use dosbox or
dosemu2. Note that our distro now also includes the SBEMU

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/1.4/pkg-html/sbemu.html

and VSBHDA

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/1.4/pkg-html/vsbhda.html

drivers which make it possible to simulate a classic SoundBlaster
soundcard on systems (or VM) which actually only have HDA or AC97
compatible soundcards.

Also, if you run DOS in a VM, DOS window or similar, you could
probably use screen readers of the host OS instead of a DOS one?

Advantage: More modern, some free open source options should exist
which need no dedicated speech hardware. Disadvantage: Less direct
coupling to your DOS applications.

Regards, Eric

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[Karen L. <kle...@sh...>]

Hi armin,
Well, you may be in a position to teach others.
let me confirm specifics though and ask a question if that is okay?
Currently you have a virtual synthesizer, what are you using?
That synthesizer can both work  in Dos, which edition?
And serve as your voice in windows.
You want to add freedos, and  jaws for DOS  in another virtual 
environment.
Do you need a copy of Jaws for Dos?
One other concern might be if your virtual synthesizer is among those that 
jaws for Dos actually supported.
The freedos aspect, reasonably, should be  workable.
So long as your virtual setup already can find, and use, the synthesizer. 
If  memory serves, that tends to be the challenge for others.
Still, I can send Jaws for dos to you, if desired.
i have it somewhere, although I have never personally been a Jaws fan.

Best,
Karen



On Sun, 6 Apr 2025, Armin Moradi via Freedos-user wrote:

> Helloo Karen,
>
>
> thank you for your E-Mail.
>
> Yes, i have a virtual syntesicer, wich runs on dos and a bridge, wich 
> connects to my nvda.
>
>
> Second: I want to install free dos and the screenreader. I want to use it on 
> VMware workstation pro 17.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Armin Moradi
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Karen Lewellen <kle...@sh...>
>
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 5. April 2025 um 11:48 PM MESZ
>
> *An:* Armin Moradi via Freedos-user <fre...@li...>
>
> *Kopie:* Armin Moradi <arm...@mo...>
>
> *Betreff:* RE: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos
>
>
>>  greetings Armin,
>>  Welcome to the group.
>>  The answer to your question depends on a few things.
>>  First, do you have both a copy of Jaws for Dos, and a synthesizer source
>>  for  the program?
>>  Second, do you wish to run freedos on its own  or as a part of another
>>  system?
>>  Cheers,
>>  Karen
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  On Sat, 5 Apr 2025, Armin Moradi via Freedos-user wrote:
>> 
>> >  Hello,
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  my name is armin moradi, I am 28 years old and i am blind.
>> > 
>> >  I want to try free dos and i want to ask, is it posible to install for 
>> >  example the jaws for dos screen reader?
>> > 
>> >  Or, is a screenreader avaylable for free dos?
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  Regards
>> > 
>> >  Armin Moradi
>> > 
>> >  -- 
>> >  JAWS Certified, 2025 <www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
>> > 
> -- 
> JAWS Certified, 2025 <www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
>

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[Armin M. <arm...@mo...>]

Helloo Karen,


thank you for your E-Mail.

Yes, i have a virtual syntesicer, wich runs on dos and a bridge, wich 
connects to my nvda.


Second: I want to install free dos and the screenreader. I want to use 
it on VMware workstation pro 17.


Regards

Armin Moradi




*Von:* Karen Lewellen <kle...@sh...>

*Gesendet:* Samstag, 5. April 2025 um 11:48 PM MESZ

*An:* Armin Moradi via Freedos-user <fre...@li...>

*Kopie:* Armin Moradi <arm...@mo...>

*Betreff:* RE: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos


> greetings Armin,
> Welcome to the group.
> The answer to your question depends on a few things.
> First, do you have both a copy of Jaws for Dos, and a synthesizer 
> source for  the program?
> Second, do you wish to run freedos on its own  or as a part of another 
> system?
> Cheers,
> Karen
>
>
>
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2025, Armin Moradi via Freedos-user wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> my name is armin moradi, I am 28 years old and i am blind.
>>
>> I want to try free dos and i want to ask, is it posible to install 
>> for example the jaws for dos screen reader?
>>
>> Or, is a screenreader avaylable for free dos?
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Armin Moradi
>>
>> -- 
>> JAWS Certified, 2025 <www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
>>
-- 
JAWS Certified, 2025 <www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[G.W. H. <fr...@ju...>]

Hi there,

On Sat, 5 Apr 2025, tsiegel--- via Freedos-user wrote:

> ...
> ... This would entail converting the A86 
> assembly code to masm or tasm, since I believe both of those assemblers are 
> available for dos distribution, though I could be wrong there. Tasm 
> definitely is, though come to think of it, I've not seen archive copies of 
> masm anywhere for dos distribution ...

Does this help?

http://www.codingcrew.de/masm32/index.php
http://www.codingcrew.de/masm32/old_version.php

(Sorry, it's all in German but you'll get the idea).

I have no information about the reliability of the site, nor the downloads.

The only assembler I use thesedays (indeed for the past 35 years or more) is

MASM.EXE 5.10, 1 Feb 1988, 110703 bytes, md5 6828fe2509ebad3ca10d2f51c71a2d94.

At a quick glance that version of the assembler doesn't appear to be on the
codingcrew site, so I can't take a copy to compare with my working version.

-- 

73,
Ged.

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[Karen L. <kle...@sh...>]

Travis,
Your sharing reminded me of another possibility.
Since Jaws for dos was specifically referenced, I did not share that, 
assuming someone kept the build, there is a compile of freedos using the 
asap  DOS  screen reader.
Joseph Norton, who has been silent for some time, anyone connect with him 
recently?  Got permission from  the author of asap to include the program.
Anyway, do you have a copy of smooth talk?  I have the others, although I 
was never a fan of Jaws.  Still,  might be interesting to see how the 
soundblaster card process works.
Karen



On Sat, 5 Apr 2025, tsiegel--- via Freedos-user wrote:

> The answer to both of your questions is yes.
>
> Jaws for dos is free for dos use, and can be installed, though I don't know 
> where to obtain it, no idea if FS still has it on their site or not, but a 
> search of google should turn it up somewhere.
>
> There is an opensource screen reader, but it requires a hardware synthesizer, 
> (as does jaws for dos I believe).  It's called provox, and it's available in 
> multiple places, you can search for the filename provox7.zip and it should 
> turn up with very little searching.
>
> That one does come with source, and I've asked in the past to see if it could 
> be included in freedos, but the answer was given that since it's written in 
> A86 assembler, the distributors of freedos would much prefer for it to be 
> converted to something that is freely available for dos distribution, rather 
> than a shareware package assembler.  This would entail converting the A86 
> assembly code to masm or tasm, since I believe both of those assemblers are 
> available for dos distribution, though I could be wrong there. Tasm 
> definitely is, though come to think of it, I've not seen archive copies of 
> masm anywhere for dos distribution, so that might mean tasm should be the 
> target assembler for provox conversion.
>
> It was decided that although A86 allows licensed users (of which I am one) to 
> distribute software with A86 assembly code, since I don't represent freedos 
> in any way, that restriction wouldn't cover the freedos project, which is why 
> it was decided that converting to another version of assembly would be 
> necessary.
>
> I'm not a good enough assembly programmer to do the conversion, though these 
> days it may be possible to get AI to do the conversion, then test it 
> thoroughly to verify full functionality.
>
> On the other hand, if you run freedos in an emulator, it's possible your 
> windows/linux screen reader would take up the slack for you, allowing you to 
> use the freedos install without having a dos screen reader at all, since it 
> could use your windows one for the task.  I've not tested this though, so 
> can't say how well it will work.  I know it used to work using dosemu under 
> linux, but that was many many years ago, and I don't know the current state 
> of affairs regarding that kind of a setup these days.  I do use linux, but 
> as much as I'd like to, I lost my dos machine in the last move we made about 
> 3 years ago, so I no longer have access to bare metal dos, which is honestly 
> the best way I liked to run dos.  One of these days, I'll get into emulators 
> and mess with it to figure out what works best now, and possibly release an 
> image that does the trick, though admittedly, there are one or two images 
> that already have dos images that come up talking, though I don't currently 
> know where those are stored, since it's been quite some time since I messed 
> with dos as mentioned above.
>
> There is also a dos screen reader that used the soundblaster for output, 
> which would mean you don't need a physical synthesizer.  I don't know what 
> the name of that screen reader was, but it might have been smooth talker 
> (stalker.exe) or text talker, or something similar, never got that one to 
> work myself.
>
> In any case, hope this helps.  Feel free to post here with more questions, 
> I'm sure someone can answer them, even if that someone isn't me.
>
>
> On 4/5/2025 8:19 PM, Armin Moradi via Freedos-user wrote:
>>
>>  Hello,
>> 
>>
>>  my name is armin moradi, I am 28 years old and i am blind.
>>
>>  I want to try free dos and i want to ask, is it posible to install for
>>  example the jaws for dos screen reader?
>>
>>  Or, is a screenreader avaylable for free dos?
>> 
>>
>>  Regards
>>
>>  Armin Moradi
>>
>>  --
>>  JAWS Certified, 2025
>> 
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Freedos-user mailing list
>>  Fre...@li...
>>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[<ts...@so...>]

The answer to both of your questions is yes.

Jaws for dos is free for dos use, and can be installed, though I don't 
know where to obtain it, no idea if fs still has it on their site or 
not, but a search of google should turn it up somewhere.

There is an opensource screen reader, but it requires a hardware 
synthesizer, (as does jaws for dos I believe).  It's called provox, and 
it's available in multiple places, you can search for the filename 
provox7.zip and it should turn up with very little searching.

That one does come with source, and I've asked in the past to see if it 
could be included in freedos, but the answer was given that since it's 
written in A86 assembler, the distributors of freedos would much prefer 
for it to be converted to something that is freely available for dos 
distribution, rather than a shareware package assembler.  This would 
entail converting the A86 assembly code to masm or tasm, since I believe 
both of those assemblers are available for dos distribution, though I 
could be wrong there. Tasm definitely is, though come to think of it, 
I've not seen archive copies of masm anywhere for dos distribution, so 
that might mean tasm should be the target assembler for provox conversion.

It was decided that although A86 allows licensed users (of which I am 
one) to distribute software with A86 assembly code, since I don't 
represent freedos in any way, that restriction wouldn't cover the 
freedos project, which is why it was decided that converting to another 
version of assembly would be necessary.

I'm not a good enough assembly programmer to do the conversion, though 
these days it may be possible to get AI to do the conversion, then test 
it thoroughly to verify full functionality.

On the other hand, if you run freedos in an emulator, it's possible your 
windows/linux screen reader would take up the slack for you, allowing 
you to use the freedos install without having a dos screen reader at 
all, since it could use your windows one for the task.  I've not tested 
this though, so can't say how well it will work.  I know it used to work 
using dosemu under linux, but that was many many years ago, and I don't 
know the current state of affairs regarding that kind of a setup these 
days.  I do use linux, but as much as I'd like to, I lost my dos machine 
in the last move we made about 3 years ago, so I no longer have access 
to bare metal dos, which is honestly the best way I liked to run dos.  
One of these days, I'll get into emulators and mess with it to figure 
out what works best now, and possibly release an image that does the 
trick, though admittedly, there are one or two images that already have 
dos images that come up talking, though I don't currently know where 
those are stored, since it's been quite some time since I messed with 
dos as mentioned above.

In any case, hope this helps.  Feel free to post here with more 
questions, I'm sure someone can answer them, even if that someone isn't me.


On 4/5/2025 8:19 PM, Armin Moradi via Freedos-user wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
> my name is armin moradi, I am 28 years old and i am blind.
>
> I want to try free dos and i want to ask, is it posible to install for 
> example the jaws for dos screen reader?
>
> Or, is a screenreader avaylable for free dos?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Armin Moradi
>
> -- 
> JAWS Certified, 2025
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[<ts...@so...>]

The answer to both of your questions is yes.

Jaws for dos is free for dos use, and can be installed, though I don't 
know where to obtain it, no idea if FS still has it on their site or 
not, but a search of google should turn it up somewhere.

There is an opensource screen reader, but it requires a hardware 
synthesizer, (as does jaws for dos I believe).  It's called provox, and 
it's available in multiple places, you can search for the filename 
provox7.zip and it should turn up with very little searching.

That one does come with source, and I've asked in the past to see if it 
could be included in freedos, but the answer was given that since it's 
written in A86 assembler, the distributors of freedos would much prefer 
for it to be converted to something that is freely available for dos 
distribution, rather than a shareware package assembler.  This would 
entail converting the A86 assembly code to masm or tasm, since I believe 
both of those assemblers are available for dos distribution, though I 
could be wrong there. Tasm definitely is, though come to think of it, 
I've not seen archive copies of masm anywhere for dos distribution, so 
that might mean tasm should be the target assembler for provox conversion.

It was decided that although A86 allows licensed users (of which I am 
one) to distribute software with A86 assembly code, since I don't 
represent freedos in any way, that restriction wouldn't cover the 
freedos project, which is why it was decided that converting to another 
version of assembly would be necessary.

I'm not a good enough assembly programmer to do the conversion, though 
these days it may be possible to get AI to do the conversion, then test 
it thoroughly to verify full functionality.

On the other hand, if you run freedos in an emulator, it's possible your 
windows/linux screen reader would take up the slack for you, allowing 
you to use the freedos install without having a dos screen reader at 
all, since it could use your windows one for the task.  I've not tested 
this though, so can't say how well it will work.  I know it used to work 
using dosemu under linux, but that was many many years ago, and I don't 
know the current state of affairs regarding that kind of a setup these 
days.  I do use linux, but as much as I'd like to, I lost my dos machine 
in the last move we made about 3 years ago, so I no longer have access 
to bare metal dos, which is honestly the best way I liked to run dos.  
One of these days, I'll get into emulators and mess with it to figure 
out what works best now, and possibly release an image that does the 
trick, though admittedly, there are one or two images that already have 
dos images that come up talking, though I don't currently know where 
those are stored, since it's been quite some time since I messed with 
dos as mentioned above.

There is also a dos screen reader that used the soundblaster for output, 
which would mean you don't need a physical synthesizer.  I don't know 
what the name of that screen reader was, but it might have been smooth 
talker (stalker.exe) or text talker, or something similar, never got 
that one to work myself.

In any case, hope this helps.  Feel free to post here with more 
questions, I'm sure someone can answer them, even if that someone isn't me.


On 4/5/2025 8:19 PM, Armin Moradi via Freedos-user wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
> my name is armin moradi, I am 28 years old and i am blind.
>
> I want to try free dos and i want to ask, is it posible to install for 
> example the jaws for dos screen reader?
>
> Or, is a screenreader avaylable for free dos?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Armin Moradi
>
> -- 
> JAWS Certified, 2025
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[<ts...@so...>]

The answer to both of your questions is yes.

Jaws for dos is free for dos use, and can be installed, though I don't 
know where to obtain it, no idea if FS still has it on their site or 
not, but a search of google should turn it up somewhere.

There is an opensource screen reader, but it requires a hardware 
synthesizer, (as does jaws for dos I believe).  It's called provox, and 
it's available in multiple places, you can search for the filename 
provox7.zip and it should turn up with very little searching.

That one does come with source, and I've asked in the past to see if it 
could be included in freedos, but the answer was given that since it's 
written in A86 assembler, the distributors of freedos would much prefer 
for it to be converted to something that is freely available for dos 
distribution, rather than a shareware package assembler.  This would 
entail converting the A86 assembly code to masm or tasm, since I believe 
both of those assemblers are available for dos distribution, though I 
could be wrong there. Tasm definitely is, though come to think of it, 
I've not seen archive copies of masm anywhere for dos distribution, so 
that might mean tasm should be the target assembler for provox conversion.

It was decided that although A86 allows licensed users (of which I am 
one) to distribute software with A86 assembly code, since I don't 
represent freedos in any way, that restriction wouldn't cover the 
freedos project, which is why it was decided that converting to another 
version of assembly would be necessary.

I'm not a good enough assembly programmer to do the conversion, though 
these days it may be possible to get AI to do the conversion, then test 
it thoroughly to verify full functionality.

On the other hand, if you run freedos in an emulator, it's possible your 
windows/linux screen reader would take up the slack for you, allowing 
you to use the freedos install without having a dos screen reader at 
all, since it could use your windows one for the task.  I've not tested 
this though, so can't say how well it will work.  I know it used to work 
using dosemu under linux, but that was many many years ago, and I don't 
know the current state of affairs regarding that kind of a setup these 
days.  I do use linux, but as much as I'd like to, I lost my dos machine 
in the last move we made about 3 years ago, so I no longer have access 
to bare metal dos, which is honestly the best way I liked to run dos.  
One of these days, I'll get into emulators and mess with it to figure 
out what works best now, and possibly release an image that does the 
trick, though admittedly, there are one or two images that already have 
dos images that come up talking, though I don't currently know where 
those are stored, since it's been quite some time since I messed with 
dos as mentioned above.

There is also a dos screen reader that used the soundblaster for output, 
which would mean you don't need a physical synthesizer.  I don't know 
what the name of that screen reader was, but it might have been smooth 
talker (stalker.exe) or something similar, never got that one to work 
myself.

In any case, hope this helps.  Feel free to post here with more 
questions, I'm sure someone can answer them, even if that someone isn't me.


On 4/5/2025 8:19 PM, Armin Moradi via Freedos-user wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
> my name is armin moradi, I am 28 years old and i am blind.
>
> I want to try free dos and i want to ask, is it posible to install for 
> example the jaws for dos screen reader?
>
> Or, is a screenreader avaylable for free dos?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Armin Moradi
>
> -- 
> JAWS Certified, 2025
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[Karen L. <kle...@sh...>]

greetings Armin,
Welcome to the group.
The answer to your question depends on a few things.
First, do you have both a copy of Jaws for Dos, and a synthesizer  source 
for  the program?
Second, do you wish to run freedos on its own  or as a part of another 
system?
Cheers,
Karen



On Sat, 5 Apr 2025, Armin Moradi via Freedos-user wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> my name is armin moradi, I am 28 years old and i am blind.
>
> I want to try free dos and i want to ask, is it posible to install for 
> example the jaws for dos screen reader?
>
> Or, is a screenreader avaylable for free dos?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Armin Moradi
>
> -- 
> JAWS Certified, 2025 <www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>
>

[Freedos-user] screen reader for free dos

[Armin M. <arm...@mo...>]

Hello,


my name is armin moradi, I am 28 years old and i am blind.

I want to try free dos and i want to ask, is it posible to install for 
example the jaws for dos screen reader?

Or, is a screenreader avaylable for free dos?


Regards

Armin Moradi

-- 
JAWS Certified, 2025 <www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification>

Re: [Freedos-user] Forth for DOS?

[Jim H. <jh...@fr...>]

On Sat, Apr 5, 2025, 2:50 AM Carsten Strotmann <ca...@st...> wrote:

>
> >> Is there a recommended Forth for FreeDOS?
> >>
>

> There's are several Forth implementations at:
> > https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/forth/
> >
>

as a (co)-maintainer of VolksForth, how can I update or trigger an update
> on the VolksForth package in that directory?
>


Hi Carsten!

There are so many programs out there that I can't track them all. And we
mirror things as a courtesy for folks looking for certain open source
packages.

When I see new releases get announced on the email list ("announce: new
VolksForth version x.y" with a message body that says *what it is, what's
new, what open source license it's under, & where to get it*) then I
usually try to:

1. Post an announcement on the website

2. Mirror a copy to the FreeDOS files archive at Ibiblio


If you've announced something and I don't do that after a few days (and
we've mirrored it before) then I probably just missed seeing the new
announcement. You can email me off-list to remind me.

(*Note that posting a news item or mirroring it does not suggest it will
become part of the FreeDOS distribution.*)

>

Re: [Freedos-user] Forth for DOS?

[Carsten S. <ca...@st...>]

Hello Jim,

On 5 Apr 2025, at 6:26, Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 4, 2025, 11:16 PM Bill Allen via Freedos-user <
> fre...@li...> wrote:
>
>> Is there a recommended Forth for FreeDOS?
>>
>
>
> There's are several Forth implementations at:
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/forth/
>
> However, I don't program in Forth so I can't recommend one for you.
>
>

as a (co)-maintainer of VolksForth, how can I update or trigger an update on the VolksForth package in that directory?

Greetings

Carsten

Re: [Freedos-user] Forth for DOS?

[Carsten S. <ca...@st...>]

Hi Bill,

On 5 Apr 2025, at 6:15, Bill Allen via Freedos-user wrote:

> Is there a recommended Forth for FreeDOS?
>

there is VolksForth ( https://github.com/forth-ev/VolksForth ), which is still maintained and (slowly) updated to the latest standards.

You can ask me here or over Github issues if you have questions.



Also relatively recent new Forth for PC/DOS is T3XForth from Nils M Holm:

https://t3x.org/t3xforth/index.html



And there is DX-Forth that is fairly complete, with lots of examples

https://www.dxforth.mirrors.minimaltype.com/#dxforth

Greetings

Carsten

Re: [Freedos-user] Forth for DOS?

[Bill A. <wal...@gm...>]

Thanks, Jim! I don't know how I missed those.


Best Regards,
Bill Allen


On Fri, Apr 4, 2025, 23:26 Jim Hall via Freedos-user <
fre...@li...> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2025, 11:16 PM Bill Allen via Freedos-user <
> fre...@li...> wrote:
>
>> Is there a recommended Forth for FreeDOS?
>>
>
>
> There's are several Forth implementations at:
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/forth/
>
> However, I don't program in Forth so I can't recommend one for you.
>
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

Re: [Freedos-user] Forth for DOS?

[Jim H. <jh...@fr...>]

On Fri, Apr 4, 2025, 11:16 PM Bill Allen via Freedos-user <
fre...@li...> wrote:

> Is there a recommended Forth for FreeDOS?
>


There's are several Forth implementations at:
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/forth/

However, I don't program in Forth so I can't recommend one for you.




>

[Freedos-user] Forth for DOS?

[Bill A. <wal...@gm...>]

Is there a recommended Forth for FreeDOS?


Best Regards,
Bill Allen

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.4-GM

[Bill A. <wal...@gm...>]

Excellent!  Thanks, Jerome!



Best Regards,
Bill Allen


On Tue, Apr 1, 2025, 06:56 Jerome Shidel via Freedos-user <
fre...@li...> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> The FreeDOS 1.4 “Gold Master” is now available for download at:
>
>
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/test/
>
> If all is as expected, the plan is this build will become the official
> FreeDOS 1.4 release.
>
> Both the “1.4" and “Latest" software download and update repositories have
> been brought current.
>
> All projects on the FreeDOS GitLab Archive that are included on the
> release have been tagged with “FreeDOS-v1.4” to mark their state at release
> time.
>
> :-)
>
> Jerome
> _______________________________________________
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Fre...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>