Re: [Flightgear-devel] Preaching to the Bishop

[LeeE <le...@sp...>]

This was a pretty mystifying post.  Like you, and I suspect most of 
us, I went back through my local postings archive and couldn't find 
anything to justify it.  Incidentally, Shad Young first popped up 
on the FG lists back in 2003 re a query concerning graphics cards.

The oddest thing I found was a reply from Shad Young to Tim Moore 
where he said "My sincere apologies. It was not my intent to 
offend".

The reason I find this odd is because Tim Moore was just pointing 
out that the conditions of use for a web-site/repository, to which 
Shad Young had referred as being an example of MSFS open-source 
work, actually had restrictions that were not compatible with 
open-source.

I could see no indication of any offence whatsoever being taken by 
Tim Moore and I remember that when I first read it I thought it was 
a bit of a strange and inappropriate reply.  Nothing I lost any 
sleep over though.

Heh:) - I don't care too much about top or bottom posting, as long 
as it's consistent within a thread...

LeeE

On Saturday 29 December 2007 03:28, Curtis Olson wrote:
> Hi Shad,
>
> I run google mail so I went back and searched all the email
> threads with your name in it, and what I saw initially was some
> good and fair questions from you (the new user.)  Then I saw the
> correct people who knew the answers jump in with helpful
> information that pointed you in the right direction in a timely
> manner.
>
> We aren't perfect here, but I think  you should go back and read
> through those early threads and remind yourself what a friendly,
> helpful, and technically solid group of good people we have here.
>
> I see there was a short discussion on the typical license terms
> of "free" MSFS aircraft and scenery and that all seemed
> reasonable.  Then Arnt posted something which started out loosely
> based on the original thread and headed off onto his own personal
> soap box and that's just what Arnt does.
>
> Other than that, I saw a bit of discussion about some technical
> aspects of water landings and suggestions for the default
> FlightGear behavior.
>
> So unless all this happened in private email, I honestly don't
> know where you are getting any of this from?  All the discussion
> on the public mailing list that derived from any of your
> questions or comments was professional, courteous, timely, and
> helpful.
>
> No one is begging you to use FlightGear (and I'm not saying it's
> always perfect around here) so please do whatever works best for
> your situation. But when I go through the archives to look at all
> the responses to all your specific questions, I see a great group
> of helpful people, and that is worth pointing out once in a
> while.
>
> If you want to see an actual example of the sort of behavior you
> have described, try reporting an emacs bug to RMS. :-)
>
> (And yes, I am deliberately top posting my reply to see if any of
> the nice folks here will flame me.) ;-)
>
> Curt.
>
> On Dec 28, 2007 6:43 PM, Shad Young <> wrote:
> > I have backed out of the commercial project involving FG.
> > Thanks to the attitudes displayed by a few of you here I have
> > no interest in contributing to this sim on any level, nor do I
> > really wish to be involved in this community.
> >
> > Maybe one of you will pick it up. I hope one of you does, as
> > you are not all bad. Just a few of you, but those few killed it
> > for me.
> >
> > Who am I to complain? I have been involved in Free and Open
> > Source software development for some 13 years now. I have
> > participated in FOSS (FSF/OSS) advocacy in depth, including
> > taking on the fight directly by forming a nationwide coalition
> > of Linux users. I have been named one of the Top 25 News makers
> > by IT World for my efforts. I suspect I am actually a bit more
> > passionate and informed about FOSS  than most, if not all, of
> > you here.
> >
> > Having been around for this long, I am rather disturbed by the
> > words and behavior of some of you here. In less than a couple
> > of weeks on this list, I have seen all the worst behavior of
> > FOSS.
> >
> > 1. I have seen mindless disdain of MS users, even though this
> > application is cross-platform.
> >
> > 2. I have seen the always distasteful "be grateful we are
> > helping you because it is free" BS.
> >
> > 3. I have seen the always disgusting "I do not understand you
> > therefor I will call your words 'irrelevant nonsense' simply
> > because I do not agree with you" garbage.
> >
> > 4. I have seen the "commercial application of this project"
> > bitterness (which is what the GPL expressly encourages and
> > permits, you idiots - And by the way, when I create a model for
> > MSFS, the model source, textures and even the XML and FDM can
> > indeed be GPLed because they are not based on anybody else
> > work, they are based on unique and original work which is mine
> > to copyright in anyway I see fit).
> >
> > 5. I have seen the "you are not allowed to speak because you
> > are new" crap that is so common on open source devel lists,
> >
> > 6. along with the age old "troll" accusations if somebody
> > expresses a contrary opinion.
> >
> > 7. and I have seen the "I/he/we have contributed code, therefor
> > I/he/we know more than you" or the "what have you done?" crap.
> >
> > Frankly, it turns my stomach.
> >
> > Sharing and openness is not about you. It is about the user.
> > Why should this project be taken seriously by the flight
> > simulator community if you people can not figure that out.
> >
> > If you only get satisfaction from contributing because it makes
> > you feel powerful and strokes your ego, and not because you
> > think it is right; if you feel that your contributions are only
> > for you, and not for the betterment of all mankind, then you
> > have no place in my world.
> >
> > So do not preach to me. Doing so is about as ridiculous as a
> > choirboy preaching to the Bishop.
> >
> > Good riddance.
> > Shad
> >
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