## flightgear-flightmodel — Flight model discussions

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 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] What happens during rotation at takeoff? From: Ivan Soleimanipour - 2017-11-10 18:11:12 ```Thanks for the detailed response Alan. On 11/10/17 06:24, Alan Teeder wrote: > > > If the resultant moment is non zero And let's say all other forces (lift thrust drag and gravity) add up to 0. A simplified scenario would be a parked plane with full thrust counterbalanced by surface friction of hand brakes. No lift or aerodynamic drag and the propwash over the elevator causing a positive pitching moment. > the aircraft will pitch up or down. If the pivot point is fixed because the undercarriage is on the ground, then the aircraft reference point will also be forced to go up and down - just as with our seesaw. You say the aircraft RP will "forced". Where is this force coming from then? What I observe is the rear gear springs compressing (+ reaction force) and front gear springs expanding (- reaction force). (The following is supposition) That shouldn't move the CG because the + and - reaction forces cancel. The CG can only move if there is excess force and that can happen only if the front gear leaves the ground and cannot provide the counterforce to the rear gear: aircraft weight: 6. rear reaction front reaction (due to LG [de]compresion) ------------------------------ +3 +3 +4 +2 +5 +1 +6 0 --------------------------------- +7 0 => force on CG I just haven't been able to observe this "experimentally" so to speak. Maybe my gear spring constants need to be way lower than I think (or some other components quantity is of the wrong scale). I intend to compare numerical values for similar planes btw jsbsim and my code. ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] What happens during rotation at takeoff? From: Alan Teeder - 2017-11-10 14:24:30 ```Perhaps we should go back to our mechanics lessons at school. When considering the rotation of a body you can take moments about any point on the body to produce the sum of moments. If the object is not accelerating then the sum of moments will be zero. If accelerating then the sum of moments will be equal to the angular rate of change (rotation acceleration) multiplied by the inertia. Consider a simple beam with a mass at each end and a pivot at the centre. ( e.g. a seesaw) On one end is a a mass A, on the other end a mass B and in the middle is a pivot P. The distance between A and P is ap and the distance between B and P is bp. A P B Take moments about the pivot and if the seesaw is balanced Then the sum of moments is A * ap - bp * B = 0. Instead take moments about A. This time P supports all of the mass a+B Then the sum of moments is ap * (A+B) - (ap+bp) * B = 0, which is exactly the same as in the previous equation. In other words it does not matter which point you choose to make the sum of moments about. With the seesaw the pivot P is fixed, so if the sum of moments is non-zero, the resultant rotation will be about that point. For an aircraft you sum the total of all of the aerodynamic pitch moments about any chosen reference point - due to wing lift, tail lift etc, all of the moments due to the product of all of the masses of the aircraft, fuel and payload and their distances from the same reference reference point and the moment due to the product all of the external forces such as undercarriage and their distances from the same reference point. The chosen reference point is usually near the cg datum, but could be anywhere. If the resultant moment is non zero the aircraft will pitch up or down. If the pivot point is fixed because the undercarriage is on the ground, then the aircraft reference point will also be forced to go up and down - just as with our seesaw. If you are using JSBSim then all of this is done for you. All that is necessary is that you choose the same reference point for all of your aerodynamics and the aircraft cg, fuel , payload location, and undercarriage location. The moments of inertia that you use should also be about the same reference point. Alan ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] What happens during rotation at takeoff? From: Erik Hofman - 2017-11-09 14:39:23 ```On 11/09/2017 01:38 PM, Bill Galbraith wrote: > Negative. The aircraft rotates about the center of gravity when in the air. > On the ground, such as during a takeoff or landing, it rotates about the > contact point. But this is due the combination of aerodynamic forces and gear induced forces I would think. If not it's not it's not rotating. So the force that pushes it up is lift, the force that prevent it from rotating too far is the gear contact point. Erik -- http://www.adalin.com - High performance virtual reality audio software. ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] What happens during rotation at takeoff? From: Bill Galbraith - 2017-11-09 12:58:32 ``` -----Original Message----- From: Erik Hofman [mailto:erik@...] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 3:30 AM To: flightgear-flightmodel@... Subject: Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] What happens during rotation at takeoff? On 11/09/2017 04:45 AM, Ivan Soleimanipour wrote: > Hi, > > I'm developing my own simulator so this is a generic simulation > question I'm hoping the collective experience here can shed some light > on. > > It seems so simple. You pull on the stick, rotate and you take off. > > If you analyze the situation in the craft frame with origin for > moments at the rear wheels it's straighforward. The elevator pushes > down and that rotates the craft around the wheels and the CG rises. >>I think you will need to analyze it as if the aircraft is already flying. The aircraft rotates around it's aerodynamic reference point (around 25% wingspan) when >>you pull the yoke (or stick). The only difference is that the movement is restricted by the landing gear which will generate a counter rotational force. >>Erik Negative. The aircraft rotates about the center of gravity when in the air. On the ground, such as during a takeoff or landing, it rotates about the contact point. Bill ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] What happens during rotation at takeoff? From: Erik Hofman - 2017-11-09 08:29:44 ```On 11/09/2017 04:45 AM, Ivan Soleimanipour wrote: > Hi, > > I'm developing my own simulator so this is a generic simulation question > I'm hoping > the collective experience here can shed some light on. > > It seems so simple. You pull on the stick, rotate and you take off. > > If you analyze the situation in the craft frame with origin for moments > at the rear wheels it's straighforward. The elevator pushes down and that > rotates the craft around the wheels and the CG rises. I think you will need to analyze it as if the aircraft is already flying. The aircraft rotates around it's aerodynamic reference point (around 25% wingspan) when you pull the yoke (or stick). The only difference is that the movement is restricted by the landing gear which will generate a counter rotational force. Erik -- http://www.adalin.com - High performance virtual reality audio software. ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] What happens during rotation at takeoff? From: Ivan Soleimanipour - 2017-11-09 03:45:30 ```Hi, I'm developing my own simulator so this is a generic simulation question I'm hoping the collective experience here can shed some light on. It seems so simple. You pull on the stick, rotate and you take off. If you analyze the situation in the craft frame with origin for moments at the rear wheels it's straighforward. The elevator pushes down and that rotates the craft around the wheels and the CG rises. But in general we put some other point as the moment origin (say the CG for simplicity) and there things get tricky. The elevator pushes down and induces a positive moment around the CG. Intuitively this torque should push down on the rear gears and lift the CG (do a "wheelie") For the CG to lift there needs to be a force applied to it (as opposed to a kinematic displacement due to rotation around the rear wheel). Where does this force come from? You could posit a reaction force corresponding to the torque induced by the elvator but the problem of computing a force from a torque is mathematically ill-defined (there's no unique inverse of a cross product). There's also no way to decide on force distributions between three wheels reacting to the torque. And neither larcsim nor jsbsim pull any shenanigans like this. So, presumably, the force raising the CG must implicitly come from ground interaction reactions. Let's look at this in detail. Initially the steady state is such that ground interaction produces reaction forces that balance the crafts weight. Fleft + Fright + Fnose = M * g; As you accelerate and pull back on the stick a positive pitch moment increases the pitch angle, pushing the rear gear down and pulling the nose gear up. This causes a redistribution of the reaction forces where the rear gear reacts more and the nose gear reacts less but given that torque is equivalent to a couple these reactions tend to cancel each other out. As a result here is no net upward force to lift the CG. Ground reaction forces produce reaction moments and these moments also equally balance the moment induced by elevator torque. Once the nosegear leaves the ground (i.e. its spring compression reaches 0) then it can no longer compensate for increased reaction of the rear gears and you should get a net upward force due to the rear gears reaction. My problem is no matter how I play with gear positions and spring K's I never get to the point where the nosegear departs. All pulling back on the stick does is redistribute gear spring compressions w/o any rotation. The harder you pull the harder the rear gear springs react and pitch angle changes even less keeping the front gear from departing. If anything, is the above way of analyzing this situation correct? ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] Spitfire Vb From: Pui Lau - 2017-07-19 12:10:03 Attachments: Message as HTML ```Dear Mr Hofman This is what I have set in my spifireVb.xml file: aircraft help>Crtl-F , this command is for toggle wing fold, but it does not work. Also, the engine was not started when I simulate the aircraft (even the start button doesn't give any response). Regards, Pui Lau ________________________________ From: Erik Hofman Sent: 18 July 2017 16:18:37 To: flightgear-flightmodel@... Subject: Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] Spitfire Vb Hi Pui Lau, On 07/17/2017 03:41 PM, Pui Lau wrote: > Dear Sir or Madam > > > I am Pui Lau and currently modeling SpitfireVb over Simulink model. > However, when I launched FlightGear, the wing of the spitfire was bent > up. I tried different commands that on the common command session. What > should I do so that the wing is able to expand. Looking at the configuration you should set controls/flight/wing-fold to 0 for example by specifying --prop:bool:/controls/flight/wing-fold=false Erik -- http://www.adalin.com - High performance virtual reality audio software. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Flightgear-flightmodel mailing list Flightgear-flightmodel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-flightmodel ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] Spitfire Vb From: Erik Hofman - 2017-07-18 16:18:51 ```Hi Pui Lau, On 07/17/2017 03:41 PM, Pui Lau wrote: > Dear Sir or Madam > > > I am Pui Lau and currently modeling SpitfireVb over Simulink model. > However, when I launched FlightGear, the wing of the spitfire was bent > up. I tried different commands that on the common command session. What > should I do so that the wing is able to expand. Looking at the configuration you should set controls/flight/wing-fold to 0 for example by specifying --prop:bool:/controls/flight/wing-fold=false Erik -- http://www.adalin.com - High performance virtual reality audio software. ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] Spitfire Vb From: Pui Lau - 2017-07-17 13:41:25 Attachments: spitfireVb.JPG Message as HTML ```Dear Sir or Madam I am Pui Lau and currently modeling SpitfireVb over Simulink model. However, when I launched FlightGear, the wing of the spitfire was bent up. I tried different commands that on the common command session. What should I do so that the wing is able to expand. The following attachment is the photo of the spitfireVb. Regards, Pui Lau ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] integrating jsbsim - help request From: issam boughanmi - 2017-06-10 10:52:39 Attachments: Message as HTML ```thanks eric . ________________________________ De : Erik Hofman Envoyé : samedi 10 juin 2017 07:56:49 À : flightgear-flightmodel@... Objet : Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] integrating jsbsim - help request Hi Issam, On 06/10/2017 02:55 AM, issam boughanmi wrote: > > > hi, > i am developping a flight simulator with unreal engine and i want to > integrate jsbsim for realistic behaviour : > and i would really appreciate if you can help me on this because at the > moment i cannot figure out how to :p > > > i have some specific questions : > > - how the main program communicate with jsbsim ? > - how to send user input to jsbsim for calculations? during main progam > loop ? etc > - how to get the data back from jsbsim to update the plane > location/orientation etc > - how to handle ground action callback, for example when the airplane > touch the ground during landing ? JSBSim is a stand alone utility which is used by FlightGear. For most JSBSim relates questions you would probably be better off at it's own development list: Project homepage: http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/ Mailinglist: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel Now for your question, you could take a look at how FlightGear is doing it by examining the example files supplied by JSBSim: https://sourceforge.net/p/jsbsim/code/ci/master/tree/examples/ Especially the copy_to_JSBsim() and copy_from_JSBsim() functions. Erik -- http://www.adalin.com - High performance virtual reality audio software. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Flightgear-flightmodel mailing list Flightgear-flightmodel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-flightmodel ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] integrating jsbsim - help request From: Erik Hofman - 2017-06-10 07:57:02 ```Hi Issam, On 06/10/2017 02:55 AM, issam boughanmi wrote: > > > hi, > i am developping a flight simulator with unreal engine and i want to > integrate jsbsim for realistic behaviour : > and i would really appreciate if you can help me on this because at the > moment i cannot figure out how to :p > > > i have some specific questions : > > - how the main program communicate with jsbsim ? > - how to send user input to jsbsim for calculations? during main progam > loop ? etc > - how to get the data back from jsbsim to update the plane > location/orientation etc > - how to handle ground action callback, for example when the airplane > touch the ground during landing ? JSBSim is a stand alone utility which is used by FlightGear. For most JSBSim relates questions you would probably be better off at it's own development list: Project homepage: http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/ Mailinglist: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel Now for your question, you could take a look at how FlightGear is doing it by examining the example files supplied by JSBSim: https://sourceforge.net/p/jsbsim/code/ci/master/tree/examples/ Especially the copy_to_JSBsim() and copy_from_JSBsim() functions. Erik -- http://www.adalin.com - High performance virtual reality audio software. ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] integrating jsbsim - help request From: issam boughanmi - 2017-06-10 00:56:04 Attachments: Message as HTML ``` hi, i am developping a flight simulator with unreal engine and i want to integrate jsbsim for realistic behaviour : and i would really appreciate if you can help me on this because at the moment i cannot figure out how to :p i have some specific questions : - how the main program communicate with jsbsim ? - how to send user input to jsbsim for calculations? during main progam loop ? etc - how to get the data back from jsbsim to update the plane location/orientation etc - how to handle ground action callback, for example when the airplane touch the ground during landing ? any help is welcome thanks ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] Wind calculation From: - 2016-01-13 11:29:25 ```Dear flightmodel community, i have to use flightgear for my master thesis. Currently I am trying to understand how flightgear calculates the wind. I think in the line vTotalWindNED = vWindNED + vGustNED + vCosineGust + vTurbulenceNED; in FGWinds.cpp of the FDM JSBSim the total wind is determined, isn't it? I've interpreted vWindNED (Calculation with the method SetWindspeed) as the mean wind and I think vCosineGust (Calculation with the method CosineGust) describes the 1-cosine gust shape and vTurbulenceNED (Calculation with the method Turbulence) the atmospheric turbulence?! But I don't understand the meaning of vGustNED and where it is calculated? Further information about the background: I am using JSBSim only in combination with flightgear. According to my knowledge the situation is as follows: The decision which flight dynamic model (FDM) flightgear will use is determined by the aircraft which you are flying (You find in the internet the follwing sentence: ''Every aircraft simulated by FlightGear must use one of these models.'' And after this sentence you get a list of possible FDM used by flight gear, amongst other things JSBSim). In the file aicraftname-set.xml (e.g. c172p-set.xml for the cessna) you find an specific entry for the using FDM: David Megginson early production 3 4 5 4 jsb c172p . . . In the future I will only use aircrafts which can be connected to the FDM JSBSim because it is better documented in the internet than for example the YASim model. The aim of my master thesis is to implement a 3D turbulent wind velocity field simulated by the LES model PALM for a specific region so that the airplane fly through a ''real'' wind field. After I will implement the 3D windfield I will determine the differences referring to the flight attitude. Therefore I am very interested in how flighgear calculates the atmospheric parameters especially the wind(mean wind, turbulence, gusts?). I've found out that flightgear provides its own atmophere model by default but can also uses the atmosphere model from JSBSim (look at: http://wiki.flightgear.org/JSBSim_Atmosphere) . I dont know which one is better or which one can handle better with the detailed weather settings you can set at the beginning and during flight, but let us assume that the we use the default variant (FlightGear provides the atmosphere model). Now I'm not really sure where the total wind is calculated and where the wind influences the forces on the airplane and therefore the flight attitude. I think this must happen all in the FDM JSBSim. As a consequence, I found the file FGWinds.cpp in the code and the informations in the internet confirm me that, at least, the turbulence is calculated in JSBSim and not in the atmosphere model of flightgear (http://wiki.flightgear.org/JSBSim_Atmosphere). So maybe Flightgear uses only the turbulence calculation of JSBSim (vTurbulenceNED) and not vTotalWindNED but how? If so, only the lines in FGWind.cpp where the turbulence is calculated where relevant. I hope you can undestand my English and my problem of understanding :-(. I hope some of you can help. That would be great! Best regards, Sebastian PS.: vGustNED is set in the FGWinds.h file, isnt't it (vGustNED(eNorth)=gn; ...? Where are the values gN, gE, gD come from? ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] Flight model for AW 139 From: Siju - 2014-12-17 11:39:18 Attachments: Message as HTML ```Hello, Please help me out in buying 'AW-139' flight model for flight gear. Please do advise where to check out for this if it is not available in the current repository. Thanks & Regards, SIJU JOSEPH Assistant Project Manager, FDMA SHEOREY DIGITAL SYSTEMS LTD. Software Lab & Tech Support Center Bengaluru 560017 India Tel: (+9180) 67188383 Cel: (+91) 7795004767 Website: ; http://www.sds.co.in ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] PBY Catalina, F8-E Crusader, Alouette III GPL FG 3.2 Compliant From: grtuxhangar team - 2014-07-18 12:39:05 Attachments: Message as HTML ```Hello, all FG end users, Since the outdated versions which are longer staying within fgdata won't fly with FG 3.2 You may want the last version. Here the download link at our gitorious.org/eekpo project ; PBY Catalina ; F8-E Crusader ; Alouette-III ; Enjoy Regards Josh https://gitorious.org/eekpo https://sites.google.com/site/grtuxhangar/ ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] Alouette-III UPDATE From: grtuxhangar team - 2014-06-30 17:00:48 Attachments: Message as HTML ```Hello, Right now Alouette-III last version is compliant with the coming FG 3.2. the last GIT (gpl) version is available there Alouette-III ; This is the last UPDATE of the existing outdated (*which won't fly with FG 3.2*) one. Up to any user to download. Up to any devel to upload/commit to fgdata. Regards Josh https://gitorious.org/eekpo https://sites.google.com/site/grtuxhangar/ ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] Alouette-III F-8E-Crusader Pby-Catalina SR71-BlackBird against FG 3.00 From: grtuxhangar team - 2014-06-30 16:58:56 Attachments: Message as HTML ```Hello, Right now Alouette-III last version is compliant with the coming FG 3.2. the last GIT (gpl) version is available there Alouette-III ; This is the last UPDATE of the existing outdated (*which won't fly with FG 3.2*) one. Up to any user to download. Up to any devel to upload/commit to fgdata. Regards Josh https://gitorious.org/eekpo https://sites.google.com/site/grtuxhangar/ On 21 February 2014 16:15, grtuxhangar team wrote: > Hello, All > Since FG 3.00 is right now released, you may want to update your fgdata > with these models accordingly > The eekpo git project can be your friend git web page > ; > > It should propose the Gerard aka GRTUX 's models update > Right now only those models have been updated, the others should come > later on. > > the direct download links are > > Alouette-III > ; > > F-8E-Crusader > ; > Pby-Catalina > ; > > SR71-BlackBird > ; > > > > ; > > I hope that could help > > > > All the best > > Ahmad > ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] Need help! From: John Clary - 2014-03-25 06:34:54 ```You have a model with a corrupted graphic file. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 1:26 AM, haseeb ahmed wrote: > I'd like to take assistance in cracking the error i get when i run the > Flightgear simulation via. Matlab. > > The program is written in such way that the airplane for example, the > running time should be 500 seconds, airplane must be at 30000 ft height, 120 > deg heading, Mach 0.50, KSFO airport (12L runway), etc,. That is the > simulation must start with the airplane being mid-air at mentioned speed. > > After running the MATLAB program successfully and the opening of FlightGear > tool in MATLAB, the FlightGear opens up and the airplane remains static and > is not moving at any direction. I also get the error which i cannot able to > recognize and rectify. Kindly visit the url. (I've taken a snapshot of the > error box) > > http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img560/5394/3lt2.jpg > > Looking forward for someone to solve the issue! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Flightgear-flightmodel mailing list > Flightgear-flightmodel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-flightmodel > -- Opus Always. Expect. Ninjas. ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] Need help! From: haseeb ahmed - 2014-03-25 06:26:08 Attachments: Message as HTML ```I'd like to take assistance in cracking the error i get when i run the Flightgear simulation via. Matlab. The program is written in such way that the airplane for example, the running time should be 500 seconds, airplane must be at 30000 ft height, 120 deg heading, Mach 0.50, KSFO airport (12L runway), etc,. That is the simulation must start with the airplane being mid-air at mentioned speed. After running the MATLAB program successfully and the opening of FlightGear tool in MATLAB, the FlightGear opens up and the airplane remains static and is not moving at any direction. I also get the error which i cannot able to recognize and rectify. Kindly visit the url. (I've taken a snapshot of the error box) http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img560/5394/3lt2.jpg Looking forward for someone to solve the issue! ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] Alouette-III F-8E-Crusader Pby-Catalina SR71-BlackBird against FG 3.00 From: grtuxhangar team - 2014-02-21 15:15:16 Attachments: Message as HTML ```Hello, All Since FG 3.00 is right now released, you may want to update your fgdata with these models accordingly The eekpo git project can be your friend git web page; It should propose the Gerard aka GRTUX 's models update Right now only those models have been updated, the others should come later on. the direct download links are Alouette-III; F-8E-Crusader; Pby-Catalina; SR71-BlackBird; ; I hope that could help All the best Ahmad ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] About Terrain Database(Didn't got answere in forum) From: Mathias Fröhlich - 2013-07-13 13:37:05 ```Hi, On Friday, July 12, 2013 00:12:47 pankaj thapliyal wrote: > Hello > I have actual aircraft data ( latitude,longitude,altitude,pitch > angle ,roll angle and yaw angle ) .These six parameters i am giving input > to FlightGear and i am trying to fly the aircraft but it is hitting hills > and going inside ground level. > thats why i want to ask about terrain database. > and what reference you are using to create terrain(eg. SRTM, NED etc ). Flightgear uses WGS84 elliptical coordinates or the cartesian coordinates with this WGS84 ellipse together with srtm elevation. Where the landcover stems from is more complex, but should not harm for your question. Where do you feed your data? May be there is something in between? Mathias ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] About Terrain Database(Didn't got answere in forum) From: pankaj thapliyal - 2013-07-11 18:42:56 Attachments: Message as HTML ```Hello I have actual aircraft data ( latitude,longitude,altitude,pitch angle ,roll angle and yaw angle ) .These six parameters i am giving input to FlightGear and i am trying to fly the aircraft but it is hitting hills and going inside ground level. thats why i want to ask about terrain database. and what reference you are using to create terrain(eg. SRTM, NED etc ). -- With Regards Pankaj ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] [Flightgear-devel] Atmospheric Light Scattering From: geneb - 2013-04-30 19:46:46 ```On Tue, 30 Apr 2013, Heiko Schulz wrote: >> If I can't remember what ALS stands for, can I call it Lou Gehrig's >> Renderer? > > Is the name "Charcot's Renderer" to complicated for you? ;-) That whooshing sound you just heard was your joke screaming over my head at some significant fraction of c. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! ```
 Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] [Flightgear-devel] Atmospheric Light Scattering From: Heiko Schulz - 2013-04-30 19:31:51 ```> If I can't remember what ALS stands for, can I call it Lou Gehrig's > Renderer? Is the name "Charcot's Renderer" to complicated for you? ;-) ```
 [Flightgear-flightmodel] Aerosonde uav From: Simin Jahangard - 2013-01-27 13:15:12 Attachments: Message as HTML ```Hello, I need airplanes model of Aerosonde uav to Flight Gear and I didn't find to download. Anybody help me? Thanks ```

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