firebird-docs — chat stuff about documentation

Re: [Firebird-docs] A how-to on writing Firebird docs?

[Frederic G. M. <fg...@os...>]

Yes, thanks,

I knew context already: I wrote an ObjectPAL highlighter for it. Really nice
editor.

"Helen Borrie" <he...@tp...> a écrit dans le message de
news:5.2...@ma......
> At 02:27 AM 4/06/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>
> >You can generate DocBook with OO 1.1.1 but I personally find it rather
> >awkward. Carlos seems to be doing OK with it though :-)
> >
> >If you want to take the DocBook-with-OO route, read
> >
> >   http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/docbook/UserGuide.html
> >
> >...and also get that template they link to.
>
> You also need to get the three XSLT files.  Actually, this link is better
> to cover fully what you need to do to activate XML filtering (as I
> discovered yesterday after several frustrating hours trying to make OO.o
> 1.1.1 behave as described in the UserGuide.html page).  It's incredible
> that they don't have these two pieces together in one document!!
>
> Start here and use method 1:
> http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/docbook/
>
> Once you do this bit, the UserGuide instructions work fine and it's really
> easy to write an <article> or <chapter> document.
>
>
> >If you think you're going to write more technical docs in the future
> >(not necessarily for Firebird), learning DocBook may be very
> >benificial for you. You can find all you need in the Firebird
> >Docwriting Howto (but this will cost you at least an hour to read
> >and understand):
> >
> >
http://www.firebirdsql.org/devel/doc/manual/defaulthtml/docwritehowto.html
>
> Confirmed, Paul's Howto is a good coverage of the absolute basics of
DocBook.
>
> Paul, I'm working on the converter for the Framemaker xml and I really
> don't think it will be rocket science to write another one for
reprocessing
> the OO docbook output, if it's needed.
>
> NB also the usefulness of ConText (www.fixedsys.com/context) for
converting
> your files to UTF-8...unicode...You can, of course, do this with the NT
> version of Notepad, but Context has a proper highlighter for XML.
>
> Helen
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Firebird-docs] A how-to on writing Firebird docs?

[A6-CMO P. M. <mak...@a6...>]

Le 04/06/2004 02:59, Helen Borrie a écrit :
> NB also the usefulness of ConText (www.fixedsys.com/context) for
> converting your files to UTF-8...unicode...You can, of course, do this
> with the NT version of Notepad, but Context has a proper highlighter for
> XML.
Notice that under Linux, Kate is a good tool for working with xml docbook
I also discover that under Windows you can generate html help (.chm file) from
docbook.

Re: [Firebird-docs] A how-to on writing Firebird docs?

[Philippe M. <mak...@fi...>]

Le 04/06/2004 02:59, Helen Borrie a écrit :
> NB also the usefulness of ConText (www.fixedsys.com/context) for
> converting your files to UTF-8...unicode...You can, of course, do this
> with the NT version of Notepad, but Context has a proper highlighter for
> XML.
Notice that under Linux, Kate is a good tool for working with xml docbook
I also discover that under Windows you can do html help (.chm file).

Re: [Firebird-docs] A how-to on writing Firebird docs?

[Helen B. <he...@tp...>]

At 02:27 AM 4/06/2004 +0200, you wrote:

>You can generate DocBook with OO 1.1.1 but I personally find it rather
>awkward. Carlos seems to be doing OK with it though :-)
>
>If you want to take the DocBook-with-OO route, read
>
>   http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/docbook/UserGuide.html
>
>...and also get that template they link to.

You also need to get the three XSLT files.  Actually, this link is better 
to cover fully what you need to do to activate XML filtering (as I 
discovered yesterday after several frustrating hours trying to make OO.o 
1.1.1 behave as described in the UserGuide.html page).  It's incredible 
that they don't have these two pieces together in one document!!

Start here and use method 1:
http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/docbook/

Once you do this bit, the UserGuide instructions work fine and it's really 
easy to write an <article> or <chapter> document.


>If you think you're going to write more technical docs in the future
>(not necessarily for Firebird), learning DocBook may be very
>benificial for you. You can find all you need in the Firebird
>Docwriting Howto (but this will cost you at least an hour to read
>and understand):
>
>   http://www.firebirdsql.org/devel/doc/manual/defaulthtml/docwritehowto.html

Confirmed, Paul's Howto is a good coverage of the absolute basics of DocBook.

Paul, I'm working on the converter for the Framemaker xml and I really 
don't think it will be rocket science to write another one for reprocessing 
the OO docbook output, if it's needed.

NB also the usefulness of ConText (www.fixedsys.com/context) for converting 
your files to UTF-8...unicode...You can, of course, do this with the NT 
version of Notepad, but Context has a proper highlighter for XML.

Helen

Re: [Firebird-docs] A how-to on writing Firebird docs?

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hi Fr=E9d=E9ric,

> As I've been working on the Gbak format and Helen and Ann suggested
> so, I'll probably put up a small document on this subject.
>
> How should I do it ? I normally work in OO or Word with custom
> stylesheets for my usual artifacts, which seem similar to what you
> describe for Docbook.  Can I use these and just paste the elements
> in a docbook skeleton somewhere ? (where ?).

Will you write one small doc and nothing more? Then you shouldn't
probably bother with DocBook at all. Just write it in plain OO or Word
without any fancy formatting stuff, and I'll convert it to DocBook.

You can generate DocBook with OO 1.1.1 but I personally find it rather
awkward. Carlos seems to be doing OK with it though :-)

If you want to take the DocBook-with-OO route, read

  http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/docbook/UserGuide.html

=2E..and also get that template they link to.

If you think you're going to write more technical docs in the future
(not necessarily for Firebird), learning DocBook may be very
benificial for you. You can find all you need in the Firebird
Docwriting Howto (but this will cost you at least an hour to read
and understand):

  http://www.firebirdsql.org/devel/doc/manual/defaulthtml/docwritehowto.htm=
l


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

Re: [Firebird-docs] Where to start?

[Armando H. <arm...@ac...>]

Hi Paul,

Paul Vinkenoog wrote:
> Hi Armando,
> 
> 
  > We made a rather informal to-do list last summer. If you point your
> newsreader to news.atkin.com you may still find it. If it's expired I
> can repost it.

I think the to-do list is what follows, but I'm not sure:

 > Why not take a look at PostgreSQL:
 > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/static/index.html
 > - A tutorial, great for newbies with databases in general and Firebird in
 > particular
 > - From the users point of view, DML, DDL
 > - From the admin point of view, setup, optimize, deploy
 > - Programmer Guide, API
 > - SQL Reference
 > - Developer Guide, also with infos for people willing to contribute to Fb
 >
 >
 >>For now, the free Borland IB6 beta docs are still very usable with
 >>Firebird, provided you also have the Release Notes etc. that come with
 >>the consecutive Firebird versions. But InterBase and Firebird _will_
 >>diverge more and more, so in a couple of years' time this is really
 >>going to be a problem.

Please confirm if I got the right one.

> 
> We could make an updated version of this list. When it comes to
> picking tasks, let's not forget:
> 
> - The Quickstart Guide will be coming our way soon (if Helen survives
>   the conversion but I guess she will ;-)), so we don't have to write
>   a beginners's guide - we only have to update it.

Strangely enough, one of my main concerns about Firebird Docs is beginner docs 
as I find hard to persuade people to try it without good documentation for 
beginners.

> 
> - After that, we'll also inherit Using Firebird, This is a big one, my
>   initial thought is that we should split it up in several docs.
>   Anyway, this too is a lot of material we don't have to write anymore.

I've got it and the reference from the IBPhoenix CD and found them quite useful. 
If there is already some sort of agreement with IBPhoenix on this subject, I 
could eventually start revising or updating it.

> 
> - IBPhoenix will produce an API Guide/Reference and an SQL Reference.
>   That doesn't mean that we can't do the same, but it seems more
>   logical to concentrate on other tasks. After all, both require a lot
>   of work and the IBPhoenix docs may not be free, but at least they will
>   be there.
> 
> - One existing project that could use input is the Glossary.

Sorry about this Paul, but I'll try to give some help outside the glossary 
project. That is not really the kind of area I would work on (I hate glossaries 
and glossaries hate me in return).

regards

Armando

Re: [Firebird-docs] A how-to on writing Firebird docs?

[Frederic G. M. <fg...@os...>]

As I've been working on the Gbak format and Helen and Ann suggested so, I'll
probably put up a small document on this subject.

How should I do it ? I normally work in OO or Word with custom stylesheets
for my usual artifacts, which seem similar to what you describe for Docbook.
Can I use these and just paste the elements in a docbook skeleton somewhere
? (where ?).


"Paul Vinkenoog" <pa...@vi...> a écrit dans le message de
news:Pin...@s4......
> Hi Mauricio,
[...]
> Because with DocBook XML, you mark up the _structure_ of a text and
> the _meaning_ of its elements: you tag things as chapters, sections,
> subsections, titles, warnings, code snippets, filenames, tips, user
> commands, etc.  etc...  There is no "pollution" by presentational
> markup like in HTML, RTF, Word and other formats.
>
> This results in a very clean and structured source text which is easy
> to maintain, totally platform-independent *and* presentation-
> independent,
>
> From this DocBook XML source, we can then (automatically) build HTML,
> PDF and other output for the readers. Stylesheets (which we can change
> if we want to) control how the structural markup is translated to a
> certain presentation.
>
> > Please, I don't have any specific objections, but all the steps
> > involved in the discussion list seem to make for a lot of trouble
> > for anyone participating in the effort.
>
> I'm afraid you are right :-(
>
> It takes time to get familiar with DocBook XML. Ten months ago I'd
> never heard of it - I learned using it because I wanted to help
> produce Firebird documentation. But now that I know it, I find it even
> easier to write then HTML or Word or whatever, precisely because I
> never have to worry about the layout while I'm writing!
>
> If I write a text in Word, I have to think about if I want section
> titles bold or not - or perhaps in a nice color? - and then I have to
> remember my decision so I don't do it another way ten pages further
> down. And how do I make up a code snippet? And a command line? And a
> warning? And... and... aaaargh!
>
> But even if I *do* make some great rules for all these elements, and I
> *do* apply them consequently throughout the text, the resulting
> document will still suffer from these drawbacks:
>
> - The information itself as to whether something is a code snippet, a
>   warning, or a filename, is not included in the document - because
>   I've already translated that info to makeup: font types, colors etc.
>
> - I only have a Word text now. How to convert to PDF and HTML? Yes, I
>   know: the latest Word versions do that, but you can't really control
>   _how_ they do it.
>
> If I write DocBook XML on the other hand, I rarely have to think about
> which tags to use, because In DocBook you tag a command as <command>,
> a filename as <filename>, a code snippet as <programlisting>, etc...
> Easy!
>
> Also, if everybody produces DocBook XML, we can have one common output
> style (defined by the stylesheets). If we'd all produce HTML it would
> be very difficult (and very frustrating for the docwriters) to have a
> common style.
>
>
> But - having said all that - if someone wants to help and he REALLY
> has a big problem with DocBook XML, he can write in another format
> too. But I hope everybody will at least give DocBook a good try before
> they decide not to use it.
>
>
> I hope I can finish the first - draft - Howto this week; it's about
> how to download the manual module and build the docs. A second Howto
> (hopefully within three weeks) will be on how to write docs in DocBook
> XML format.
>
>
> Greetings!
> Paul Vinkenoog
>
>  - no docs today, my mind has gone away -
>
>
>
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Re: [Firebird-docs] Where to start?

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hi Armando,

> I don't know how you have felt when you joined this list, but I feel
> a little confused about where should I start, maybe because I
> usually prefer to organise and plan things before starting do do
> them.
>
> It occurs to me a possibility which I'm no sure if you agree with
> it: maybe I could start with a TOC for the basic documentation so
> that we could discuss and refine it. From my point of view, when you
> have a TOC signaling what's to be done it's easier to choose what
> piece of documentation I would like to write next...

We made a rather informal to-do list last summer. If you point your
newsreader to news.atkin.com you may still find it. If it's expired I
can repost it.

We could make an updated version of this list. When it comes to
picking tasks, let's not forget:

- The Quickstart Guide will be coming our way soon (if Helen survives
  the conversion but I guess she will ;-)), so we don't have to write
  a beginners's guide - we only have to update it.

- After that, we'll also inherit Using Firebird, This is a big one, my
  initial thought is that we should split it up in several docs.
  Anyway, this too is a lot of material we don't have to write anymore.

- IBPhoenix will produce an API Guide/Reference and an SQL Reference.
  That doesn't mean that we can't do the same, but it seems more
  logical to concentrate on other tasks. After all, both require a lot
  of work and the IBPhoenix docs may not be free, but at least they will
  be there.

- One existing project that could use input is the Glossary.


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

[Firebird-docs] Where to start?

[Armando H. <arm...@ac...>]

Hi all,

I don't know how you have felt when you joined this list, but I feel a little
confused about where should I start, maybe because I usually prefer to organise
and plan things before starting do do them.

It occurs to me a possibility which I'm no sure if you agree with it: maybe I
could start with a TOC for the basic documentation so that we could discuss and
refine it. From my point of view, when you have a TOC signaling what's to be
done it's easier to choose what piece of documentation I would like to write next...

Regards

Armando Halpern

Re: [Firebird-docs] Re: Your protocol doc

[<car...@te...>]

Hello:

>Feel free to send it - but you can also wait a while, if you expect
>more revisions to come.
>
I will do, i'm adding some new sections to the Statements protocol.




--
Best regards

Carlos Guzmán Álvarez
Vigo-Spain

Re: [Firebird-docs] Re: Your protocol doc

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hi Carlos,

> P.S: I'm sedning this email to the docs list too, hope we can
> continue the dicussion in the list :)

Good idea, since we're discussing doc techniques here.

>>  <simplelist columns="2" type="horiz">
>>  (...)
>>  </simplelist>

> What about a <segmentedlist> ??

That's also possible. In fact I had an example prepared to send to
you along with the <simplelist>, but I removed it because it didn't
build well. I used <segmentedlist presentation='table'> but it built
like a list. Just now I saw in the examples at docbook.org that they
do it with a <?dbhtml...> instruction. So here it is:

  <segmentedlist>
    <?dbhtml list-presentation="table"?>
    <seglistitem>
      <seg><type>Int32</type></seg>
      <seg>Operation code (<constant>op_create</constant>)</seg>
    </seglistitem>
    <seglistitem>
      <seg><type>Int32</type></seg>
      <seg>Attachment handle ??? (0)</seg>
    </seglistitem>
    <seglistitem>
      <seg><type>String</type></seg>
      <seg>Database path</seg>
    </seglistitem>
    <seglistitem>
      <seg><type>Buffer</type></seg>
      <seg>Database parameter buffer</seg>
    </seglistitem>
  </segmentedlist>

This builds exactly the same as the simplelist (well, not exactly, but
it looks the same in a browser). Note: Officially, you may not omit
the <segtitle> elements, but in practice it works.

The only problem is that in the PDF rendering, the segmentedlist looks
idiotic - worse than the simplelist:

  : Int32
  : Operation code (op_create)
  : Int32
  : Attachment handle ??? (0)
  : String
  : Database path
  : Buffer
  : Database parameter buffer


> P.S.2: I have a new draft of the document with some new sections :)

Feel free to send it - but you can also wait a while, if you expect
more revisions to come.


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

[Firebird-docs] Re: Your protocol doc

[<car...@te...>]

Hello:

>  A better alternative would be:
>
>  <simplelist columns="2" type="horiz">
>    <member><type>Int32</type></member>
>    <member>Operation code (<constant>op_create</constant>)</member>
>    <member><type>Int32</type></member>
>    <member>Attachment handle ??? (0)</member>
>    <member><type>String</type></member>
>    <member>Database path</member>
>    <member><type>Buffer</type></member>
>    <member>Database parameter buffer</member>
>  </simplelist>
>
What about a <segmentedlist> ??



--
Best regards

Carlos Guzmán Álvarez
Vigo-Spain

P.S: I'm sedning this email to the docs list too, hope we can continue 
the dicussion in the list :)
P.S.2: I have a new draft of the document with some new sections :)

Re: [Firebird-docs] Re: user feedback

[Lester C. <le...@ls...>]

Paul Vinkenoog wrote:

> - Borland docs completely replaced by our own: 2-3 years.
> - Bring down the Evil Empire: a little longer ;-)

Don't forget - take over the world - some time soon :)

-- 
Lester Caine
-----------------------------
L.S.Caine Electronic Services

Re: [Firebird-docs] Re: documentation wiki

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hi Daniel,

> For some weeks ago I've got an idea that we could run a wiki page
> for firebird documentation and invite everyone on FB newsgroups to
> help us write the content for firebird documentation.  I think that
> it could be a good way to produce documentation and involve much
> more people e.g. developers.

> Maybe we could use http://jaybirdwiki.firebirdsql.org/JayBirdHome
> for start or I could run phpwiki (powered by FireBird) on
> my company server.

To add to this: there's also a Firebird wiki by Lester Caine at
http://81.138.11.136:8080/TikiPro/wiki/index.php?page=Firebird+Words+Reference

And Nigel Weeks ran something at http://oc.aims.net.au/fp/ or
thereabouts, but that site seems unreachable right now...

Anybody seen anymore? It would be preferable if the wikiers could
agree on using one site to hang all the Firebird wikis down from.


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

Re: [Firebird-docs] Re: user feedback

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hi Daniel,

> http://forums.devshed.com/showthread.php?p=638584#post638584
> It's from firebird-website but it's also about fb documentation.

Yes, I read it. There have been some good replies (especially wrt
docwriting) in the meantime.

We keep doing our best! Planning:

- Borland docs completely replaced by our own: 2-3 years.
- Bring down the Evil Empire: a little longer ;-)


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

Re: [Firebird-docs] Using Context

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hello Philippe,

> have you an highligther and a set of template for docbook ?

Afaik, no DocBook highlighter exists for ConText. It's not built in
and also not among the custom highlighter files on the download page
(http://www.fixedsys.com/context/download.html)

ConText will use the XML highlighter if the file extension is .xml, or
if you select that highlighter from the drop-down list. This works
fine, but of course ConText cannot check if your text is valid DocBook.
For that, you need a DocBook-aware XML editor like XXE Standard Edition
(free at http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/download.shtml)

As for a template... you mean, to start a fresh DocBook document? I
don't have a template document but here's a description of how you
should set it up, with some examples:

http://www.firebirdsql.org/devel/doc/manual/defaulthtml/docwritehowto-writing-docbook.html


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

[Firebird-docs] Using Context

[A6-CMO P. M. <mak...@a6...>]

Hello,
have you an highligther and a set of template for docbook ?

-- 
Philippe Makowski

Re: [Firebird-docs] It seems I made it

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hi Armando,

> I had some problems getting to subscribe this list, but it seems I
> made it

Yep, looks like you did :-)


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

[Firebird-docs] It seems I made it

[Armando H. <arm...@ac...>]

Hi all,

I had some problems getting to subscribe this list, but it seems I made it (I'm 
sending this message only as a test to see if I get it back).

Armando Halpern

[Firebird-docs] Re: documentation wiki

[Daniel U. <da...@se...>]

For some weeks ago I've got an idea that we could run
a wiki page for firebird documentation
and invite everyone on FB newsgroups to help us
write the content for firebird documentation.
I think that it could be a good way to produce
documentation and involve much more people
e.g. developers.
Maybe we could use http://jaybirdwiki.firebirdsql.org/JayBirdHome
for start or I could run phpwiki (powered by FireBird) on
my company server.

Best regards
Daniel Urban

[Firebird-docs] Re: user feedback

[Daniel U. <da...@se...>]

http://forums.devshed.com/showthread.php?p=638584#post638584
It's from firebird-website but it's also about fb documentation.

Best regards
Daniel Urban

Re: [Firebird-docs] Reserved Words + Glossary - any progress?

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hi Lester,

>> Any progress yet with the Reserved Words + Glossary? I had the idea
>> to commit it to CVS, no matter how many holes there still are.

> You have the current one in the CVS. The SQL2003 one I am working on
> will take a bit more time, and then need a shift to XML.

Oops - *blush*

Totally forgot I already committed it two months ago :-)

What if I change firebirddocs.xml (the master document) so that from
now on it includes the Reserved Words list + Glossary? Not yet for web
publication of course, but doccers homebuilding the module would
then notice the glossary and can help to fill holes. I don't mind
contributing a few descriptions myself. It's not too difficult, after
all it's a glossary, not an SQL reference.

> Anybody know there the SQL reference in IBOConsole came from,

Sorry, no idea. Is it also in IBConsole? If so it's GPL and we can use
it.


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

Re: [Firebird-docs] Reserved Words + Glossary - any progress?

[Lester C. <le...@ls...>]

Paul Vinkenoog wrote:

> Any progress yet with the Reserved Words + Glossary? I had the idea to
> commit it to CVS, no matter how many holes there still are. This way
> everybody can see which definitions/descriptions fail, and contribute.
> As long as Lester is the only one who has the source, nobody else can
> work on it.

You have the current one in the CVS. The SQL2003 one I am working on
will take a bit more time, and then need a shift to XML.

Anybody know there the SQL reference in IBOConsole came from, I'm
tempted to drop that, and any bits people have that we can use are more
than welcome.

I'm currently trying to get the DataDict stuff working in ADOdb for
Firebird 1.5, and part of that is a link to the XML stuff, so I should
be able to export directly from the Firebird database :)

-- 
Lester Caine
-----------------------------
L.S.Caine Electronic Services

[Firebird-docs] Reserved Words + Glossary - any progress?

[Paul V. <pa...@vi...>]

Hi Lester, and all,

Any progress yet with the Reserved Words + Glossary? I had the idea to
commit it to CVS, no matter how many holes there still are. This way
everybody can see which definitions/descriptions fail, and contribute.
As long as Lester is the only one who has the source, nobody else can
work on it.


Greetings,
Paul Vinkenoog

Re: [Firebird-docs] Format documentation

[FGM <fg...@os...>]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the suggestions.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Vinkenoog" <pa...@vi...>
Newsgroups: sourceforge.firebird-doc
To: <fir...@li...>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Firebird-docs] Format documentation


> Hi Frederic,
> 
> [ transportable backup format ]
> 
> > Yes, that's what I mean. Didn't find anything either in the sources,
> > the docs, FirebirdSQL.org, IBPhoenix.com or various other sites in
> > the ring, but maybe I didn't know how to look.
> 
> I can't find it either. Of course there must exist documents, but
> they're probably at Borland. You might try their knowledgebase(s) but
> maybe they didn't publish them.
> 
> If you don't find it there, or via a Google search, I think you should
> ask in firebird-support and hope Ann Harrison has an answer. After
> that, you may try *very politely* to ask your question in
> firbird-devel or firebird-architect. These lists are not for support
> questions but if you tried every other avenue and the information is
> nowhere to be found, someone may help you there.
> 
> Failing that, all you can do is work through the source code to see
> how it generates the backups.
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> Paul Vinkenoog
> 
> 
> 
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