exprla-devel — This is the Developers' list for the for XPL

[exprla-devel] RE: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
Michael,

This is going to take a long time.  We won't submit anything until 
it's
ready.  I am confused here; I thought of all the things we were going 
to do,
submitting a Note (once ready) to the W3C was a sure thing.  When you 
say
bigger players, they are also the ones who can fund real solid 
research, and
I do think it's all opensource.  What makes you think it's not?

Please tell me why you don't want to go to the W3C.  I am not saying 
let's
go now, at all.  But you seem to be saying, we may not go ever.

Richard A. Hein

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Michael Lauzon [mailto:ce940@f...]
  Sent: July 8, 2000 9:52 AM
  To: xpl@e...
  Subject: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft


  Richard,

  I know you like the idea of submitting XPL to the W3C, but this
  should
  wait a good while, remember XPL is open source; though I really
  wouldn't call anything the W3C does as open source (though I am
  probably wrong here).  So, let's get the framework down, and a
  working
  copy of XPL first, before we decide to contact the bigger players, 
if
  at all.  (Though if we did contact the W3C, XPL would have more
  recognization).


  --- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
  > Hi everyone.  It's great that everyone seems keen again on getting
  down to
  > some business.  I was starting to lose hope.  I hope now that soon
  we will
  > have substantial gains made once we are able to answer the vital
  questions
  > necessary to get to the next level:  establishing the actual
  programming
  > model of XPL.  However, first we need to have a framework in place
  in which
  > to operate.  Once this has become a reality, things will be much
  more
  > organized, and we will all know where to put our ideas in order to
  ensure
  > they are not lost in confusion, and will be addressed quickly.
  >
  > In addition, this will encourage others to contribute where they
  can, by
  > making it easier for them to focus on their strengths, access
  information
  > related to their ideas and contributions more effectively, and 
have
  an all
  > around better idea of the current and ongoing state of XPL.
  >
  > Since this is a cooperative effort, I am asking you all to look at
  this
  > table of contents, and add your points to the list of items where
  > appropriate (please refrain from writing up issues - just points 
at
  issue
  > will be included).  Feel free to discuss, disseminate, and add
  anything you
  > feel is necessary towards the development of XPL.  Once we have
  established
  > a framework of issues from which we can easily draw information
  from
  and put
  > information into, we will be on the way to some serious 
development.
  >
  > You may note that this TOC is somewhat similar to the Working
  Drafts
  that
  > the W3C issues.  This is not an accident.  The goal of this entire
  document
  > is to eventually have a completed draft.  As a working draft, this
  document
  > will be made available online, at our website, with links to
  messages which
  > relate to the specific points.  It is the hope that this will
  facilitate
  > easy access to ongoing discussions, while providing everyone with
  the
  > overall picture of the project as a whole.  The final version of
  the
  draft,
  > which will be submitted as a Note to the W3C, will have only the
  accepted
  > points.
  >
  > =B7      Abstract
  >
  > =B7      Mission Statement
  >
  > =B7      Vision(s)
  >
  > =B7      Scope
  >
  > =B7      Design Goals (Accepted)
  >
  > =B7      Design Goals (Under Review)
  >
  > =B7      Requirements (Accepted)
  >
  > =B7      Requirements (Under Review)
  >
  > =B7      Terminology (Accepted)
  >
  > =B7      Terminology (Under Review)
  >
  > =B7      Semantics (Accepted)
  > o      Data Model
  > o      Production Rules
  >
  > =B7      Semantics (Under Review)
  > o      Data Model
  > o      Production Rules
  >
  > =B7      Syntax (Accepted)
  > o      XPL Elements and Attributes
  > o      Data Types
  > o      I/O
  > o      Patterns
  > o      Component Interaction
  > o      Object Model
  >
  > =B7      Syntax (Under Review)
  > o      XPL Elements and Attributes
  > o      Data Types
  > o      I/O
  > o      Patterns
  > o      Component Interaction
  > o      Object Model
  >
  > =B7      Appendices
  > References
  > Resources
  >
  > Group Members and Acknowledgements
  >
  >
  >
  > =3D=3D Richard Anthony Hein =3D=3D


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[exprla-devel] server is on the way!

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Mark Wilson <mark_tracey@y...> wrote:

the server is on the way and will be up in just over a
week.  At that point I need to get stuck into it and
create serveral IP addresses and set up webs with each
IP address.

Then I can create a login and password for each of us.
 You all need to think about the best way to do this.

It is important that you understand that I think
synergy with other projects is paramount to our
success.  We must provide tools to support a community
and we must have a profile which attracts raw talent
to the group.

The server will be shared by up to 10 other webs with
whom I am involved.  Through the use of the header
file, all of these webs will drive the required talent
to and from each of our webs.

Sounds good?

FWIW the server is Windows 2000, SQL Server 7 (or SQL
2000 later this year), 256 megs RAM, 12 gigs RAID-1. 
(I have licences for all of this.)  I will had admin
access and anyone approved will be able to use the SQL
Enterprise manager to edit the database associated to
this project.  Hmmm... what else?  We will have a
stats server which we can use as well.

Is there anything else we need?

Cheers,
Mark.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail =96 Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] RE: XPL Working Draft

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Mark Wilson <mark_tracey@y...> wrote:

This email has 4 parts to it

1.  Working model
2.  Using XPL on the website
3.  XPlatipus as a product, XPL as a website
4.  Gestalt community vision


1.  Working model

Just before we get going on that TOC (table of
contents) could I suggest we model ourselves on the
successful opensource movement which created the
next-gen Netscape browser?

Specifically, I suggest everyone keen on helping
design the environment in which we will work and
communicate studies the design of these two websites:
http://www.mozilla.org/ (for the public)
http://www.mozillazine.org/ (for the public workers to
interact)

Let's talk about it, why reinvent the wheel?

2.  Using XPL on the website

And yes, I think WE MUST set the expectation that the
website will gradually move over the whole website to
XPL, from it's initial HTML/XML/XSL basis

3.  XPlatipus as a product, XPL as a website

Give me a bit of time and I will buy the URL for us. 
I don't think we need the 

4.  Gestalt community vision

The XPL websites and my enthusiasm for supporting this
(and other websites like VBXML.COM) with my own money
is this:  I am keen on building a community of
communities... to achieve a gestalt affect.  I want to
provide support services for communities on the web.

But the only gotcha is that I need all the websites in
the group to committ to using a common header file on
all pages... in this way no website is a dead-end.  So
people can move from VBXML to XSLTalk to
Dataframeworks to XPL and Xpipes and WorldOS etc...

I think this is a good time to discuss this with all
of you and to ensure that you understand that this
would be good for you as well as for other websites.

Even on VBXML.COM where I have sunk well over a year
and loads of money into VBXML and many people have
subwebs which promote them and their names and their
ideas to thousands of visitors each month... I still
have to remind people to use the header and footer.

Are you cool to use the header (and the footer is
primarily a disclaimer).

Cheers,
Mark.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail =96 Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] \W3C issues

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Simon St.Laurent" <simonstl@s...> wrote:
>In the final analysis, it will end up becoming the XPL complete 
reference.
>Then, and only then, will it be submitted as a Note to the W3C for 
their
>review.  I am not saying this is something that will be submitted to 
the W3C
>before it's finalized.  By then we should know whether or not we are 
going
>to the W3C.  If we do, we will have the Note, requirements, and 
reference
>completed as a side-effect to our work.  Basically, this framework 
will be
>documenting XPL, as we go.

This sounds like the usual way to go.  In a lot of cases, submission 
as a
Note is the end of the line for a spec.  While the Note can get you a 
few
dollops of publicity (provided you can find a W3C member to submit it 
and
the W3C is willing to accept it), I'd suggest developing it without 
too
much concern for the submission process and focusing on the project 
rather
than the W3C.

(Keep track of referenced material, though!  I suspect this project 
will
have a lot of that.)

I've got a FAQ that's an "Outsider's Guide to the W3C", if anyone's
interested:
http://www.simonstl.com/articles/civilw3c.htm

Hopefully I'll have something more substantive to contribute over 
time, but
since I'm not a programming language designer (or even that much of a
programmer), I'm not entirely sure how substantive it will prove to 
be.

Simon St.Laurent
XML Elements of Style / XML: A Primer, 2nd Ed.
http://www.simonstl.com - XML essays and books
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] RE: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
Michael, Kurt,

I don't see how your comments differ from what I wrote.  I guess I 
didn't
make it very clear about the intention of the document.

It's meant to be our working draft (meaning it's not finalized), our
framework.  As time goes by, comments from people will go into the
categories defined in the TOC.  We will then have links to related 
comments
and cross-referenced links added in.  When something in discussion is
finalized and accepted by the group, it will be put into the accepted
categories, and taken out of discussion (of course, if necessary it 
will be
brought back into discussion), and edited appropriately to be a
formalization, with links to cross-references intact.  As more time 
goes by,
those cross-references will also become accepted and formalized.

In the final analysis, it will end up becoming the XPL complete 
reference.
Then, and only then, will it be submitted as a Note to the W3C for 
their
review.  I am not saying this is something that will be submitted to 
the W3C
before it's finalized.  By then we should know whether or not we are 
going
to the W3C.  If we do, we will have the Note, requirements, and 
reference
completed as a side-effect to our work.  Basically, this framework 
will be
documenting XPL, as we go.

Does that clarify the issue?  Because I am in agreement about not 
going to
the W3C now, and I also agree that this is for us to work with.  That 
is the
intended purpose:  to supply us with a framework in which to operate.

Richard A. Hein
  -----Original Message-----
  From: cagle@o... [mailto:cagle@o...]
  Sent: July 8, 2000 11:28 AM
  To: xpl@e...
  Subject: Re: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft


  Richard,

  I'm actually in agreement with Michael on this -- we're talking 
about
putting together an honest to god programming language here -- think 
Perl or
Java or C++ and you get a pretty good idea about what that entails.

  The best way to do this, IMHO, is to build the framework and 
language, get
other people on board to critique and build, and get momentum behind 
it.
I've written any number of proto-languages, and found that before you 
write
a requirements spec together it helps to have a little clearer idea 
about
what you want to have in there in the first place. I'd suggest that 
we put
together the requirements document for our own use first, flesh out 
some
first pass XPL working samples, then when we've got something solid 
enough
submit the requirements doc to the W3C. This will take a while (take 
a look
at Schemas, which are still not ratified after three years of intense
negotiation), so there's no real need to hurry it.

  -- Kurt
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Richard Anthony Hein
    To: xpl@e...
    Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 7:32 AM
    Subject: RE: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft


    Michael,

    This is going to take a long time.  We won't submit anything 
until it's
ready.  I am confused here; I thought of all the things we were going 
to do,
submitting a Note (once ready) to the W3C was a sure thing.  When you 
say
bigger players, they are also the ones who can fund real solid 
research, and
I do think it's all opensource.  What makes you think it's not?

    Please tell me why you don't want to go to the W3C.  I am not 
saying
let's go now, at all.  But you seem to be saying, we may not go ever.

    Richard A. Hein

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Michael Lauzon [mailto:ce940@f...]
      Sent: July 8, 2000 9:52 AM
      To: xpl@e...
      Subject: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft


      Richard,

      I know you like the idea of submitting XPL to the W3C, but this
      should
      wait a good while, remember XPL is open source; though I really
      wouldn't call anything the W3C does as open source (though I am
      probably wrong here).  So, let's get the framework down, and a
      working
      copy of XPL first, before we decide to contact the bigger 
players, if
      at all.  (Though if we did contact the W3C, XPL would have more
      recognization).


      --- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
      > Hi everyone.  It's great that everyone seems keen again on 
getting
      down to
      > some business.  I was starting to lose hope.  I hope now that 
soon
      we will
      > have substantial gains made once we are able to answer the 
vital
      questions
      > necessary to get to the next level:  establishing the actual
      programming
      > model of XPL.  However, first we need to have a framework in 
place
      in which
      > to operate.  Once this has become a reality, things will be 
much
      more
      > organized, and we will all know where to put our ideas in 
order to
      ensure
      > they are not lost in confusion, and will be addressed quickly.
      >
      > In addition, this will encourage others to contribute where 
they
      can, by
      > making it easier for them to focus on their strengths, access
      information
      > related to their ideas and contributions more effectively, 
and have
      an all
      > around better idea of the current and ongoing state of XPL.
      >
      > Since this is a cooperative effort, I am asking you all to 
look at
      this
      > table of contents, and add your points to the list of items 
where
      > appropriate (please refrain from writing up issues - just 
points at
      issue
      > will be included).  Feel free to discuss, disseminate, and add
      anything you
      > feel is necessary towards the development of XPL.  Once we 
have
      established
      > a framework of issues from which we can easily draw 
information
      from
      and put
      > information into, we will be on the way to some serious 
development.
      >
      > You may note that this TOC is somewhat similar to the Working
      Drafts
      that
      > the W3C issues.  This is not an accident.  The goal of this 
entire
      document
      > is to eventually have a completed draft.  As a working draft, 
this
      document
      > will be made available online, at our website, with links to
      messages which
      > relate to the specific points.  It is the hope that this will
      facilitate
      > easy access to ongoing discussions, while providing everyone 
with
      the
      > overall picture of the project as a whole.  The final version 
of
      the
      draft,
      > which will be submitted as a Note to the W3C, will have only 
the
      accepted
      > points.
      >
      > =B7      Abstract
      >
      > =B7      Mission Statement
      >
      > =B7      Vision(s)
      >
      > =B7      Scope
      >
      > =B7      Design Goals (Accepted)
      >
      > =B7      Design Goals (Under Review)
      >
      > =B7      Requirements (Accepted)
      >
      > =B7      Requirements (Under Review)
      >
      > =B7      Terminology (Accepted)
      >
      > =B7      Terminology (Under Review)
      >
      > =B7      Semantics (Accepted)
      > o      Data Model
      > o      Production Rules
      >
      > =B7      Semantics (Under Review)
      > o      Data Model
      > o      Production Rules
      >
      > =B7      Syntax (Accepted)
      > o      XPL Elements and Attributes
      > o      Data Types
      > o      I/O
      > o      Patterns
      > o      Component Interaction
      > o      Object Model
      >
      > =B7      Syntax (Under Review)
      > o      XPL Elements and Attributes
      > o      Data Types
      > o      I/O
      > o      Patterns
      > o      Component Interaction
      > o      Object Model
      >
      > =B7      Appendices
      > References
      > Resources
      >
      > Group Members and Acknowledgements
      >
      >
      >
      > =3D=3D Richard Anthony Hein =3D=3D

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[exprla-devel] WorldOS 0.2 and XPL musing

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Lucas Gonze <lucas@g...> wrote:

WorldOS 0.2 is now out.  see www.worldos.org.  The main changes have 
to do
with usability - it should be much easier to create and plug in
applications.

The usability improvements are partly a result of having a primitive
scripting language which we use for the config files.  In practice 
this
language is just a series of standard wOS messages.  Messages look 
like:

<msg>
<protocol><function>name of some func</function></protocol>
<funcdata>func args go here</funcdata>
</msg>

See http://www.worldos.org/worldos/rel02.php3#config_files for more
details, or download the distribution and look at conf/*.xml.

This brings me to XPL and my reasons for following the progress of the
group.

First, I want a real scripting language for wOS, where you can set
variables and do scoped operations.  

Second, I want programs to float from node to node as easily as data 
does.
(like mp3 files in Gnutella) If the XPL interpreter is java, then we 
can
easily embed it into wOS. This would allow XPL progs to become the
standard macro language.

If this all seems kind of blue-sky, I hope it will provide at least
one clear usecase for XPL.
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: [XPL] XPL Working Draft

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Jonathan Burns <saski@w...> wrote:
Richard Anthony Hein wrote:

> Hi everyone.  It's great that everyone seems keen again on getting
> down to
> some business.  I was starting to lose hope.  I hope now that soon 
we
> will
> have substantial gains made once we are able to answer the vital
> questions
> necessary to get to the next level:  establishing the actual
> programming
> model of XPL.  However, first we need to have a framework in place 
in
> which
> to operate.  Once this has become a reality, things will be much 
more
> organized, and we will all know where to put our ideas in order to
> ensure
> they are not lost in confusion, and will be addressed quickly.

We do need the framework, and the one below looks pretty good.

I know I've rather lost track of where my own contributions fit into 
the
big picture.
Basic data and machine architectures, fogs, patterns, interfaces,
hierarchies ...
makes my head spin. But most of it seems to fit into the 
classification
below.

Plaudits for taking the initiative.

>
> In addition, this will encourage others to contribute where they 
can,
> by
> making it easier for them to focus on their strengths, access
> information
> related to their ideas and contributions more effectively, and have 
an
> all
> around better idea of the current and ongoing state of XPL.

ABSOLUTELY.

>
> Since this is a cooperative effort, I am asking you all to look at
> this
> table of contents, and add your points to the list of items where
> appropriate (please refrain from writing up issues - just points at
> issue
> will be included).  Feel free to discuss, disseminate, and add
> anything you
> feel is necessary towards the development of XPL.  Once we have
> established
> a framework of issues from which we can easily draw information from
> and put
> information into, we will be on the way to some serious development.

We'll need to think up a way of accumulating discussions under each
heading separately.
I suppose we could elaborate our mail headers. For the time being, 
this
is probably your
job by default, Richard.

>
> You may note that this TOC is somewhat similar to the Working Drafts
> that
> the W3C issues.  This is not an accident.  The goal of this entire
> document
> is to eventually have a completed draft.  As a working draft, this
> document
> will be made available online, at our website, with links to 
messages
> which
> relate to the specific points.  It is the hope that this will
> facilitate
> easy access to ongoing discussions, while providing everyone with 
the
> overall picture of the project as a whole.  The final version of the
> draft,
> which will be submitted as a Note to the W3C, will have only the
> accepted
> points.
>

I accept the W3C submission as a goal - but my attitude is that the
framework is to
help us organize ourselves, primarily.  I won't be inhibited about
suggesting something
because it might be at odds with existing W3C specifications, or 
because
it might
cohere with a non-standard or proprietary system. We can postpone such
worries
to the endgame, I think.

So, let me see if I can fill in the blanks.

>
> =B7      Abstract

As XML is a meta-language for data, so XPL is proposed as a
meta-language for
programming languages, which operates on data described in XML, and is
itself
expressible in XML.

The principal purpose of XPL is to provide convenient programmability 
of
Web
content.

>
> =B7      Mission Statement

To define a range (ideally the range) of operations which can be 
applied
to data
which is defined in XML.

To define a semantics for combining those operations into programming
languages.

To define a syntax (ideally all-XML) which completely and 
unambiguously
represents that syntax.

>
> =B7      Vision(s)

There will be programs which operate on XML documents at the semantic
level.

XPL document types will define programming languages in which such
programs
can be written.

Programs in XPL-defined programming languages will be expressed in 
XML.
They will be transmissible in XML form to any XML-capable client,
including
XML-capable browsers.

XPL-defined programs can run either client- or server-side, where 
such a

distinction is made.

XPL-defined programs can run on any peer in a (serverless) peer-to-
peer
XML-capable protocol.

There will be a standard XPL, and standard XPL-defined programming
languages,
which are defined independently of any proprietary enabling 
technology.

>
> =B7      Scope

XPL will provide the ability to define operations in terms of any API
which can be
expressed in XML. [The Universal Glue Principle.]

> =B7      Design Goals (Accepted)
>
> =B7      Design Goals (Under Review)

It will be possible to duplicate the functionality of existing
programming extensions
to XML (e.g. Miva, Cold Fusion) , as XPL-defined languages.

Any user of an XPL-defined programming system will be able to ensure 
the
security
of the local system against errors or incursions permitted within the
XPL system.

> =B7      Requirements (Accepted)
>
> =B7      Requirements (Under Review)

Several requirement sets have been posted to the list - all these will
be taken under
review.

> =B7      Terminology (Accepted)
>
> =B7      Terminology (Under Review)

[ Big issue. Don't start on it, Burns. ]

>
>
> =B7      Semantics (Accepted)
> o      Data Model

> o      Production Rules

> =B7      Semantics (Under Review)
> o      Data Model

Trees.

> o      Production Rules

Definable in some grammar, as tree operations.

> o      Interfaces

Definable in terms of tree patterns

> o      Primitive operations

Include at least, string, regexp, boolean, artihmetic.
Relational?

> o      Resource Identifiers

Local, remote? Protected? Encrypted?

>
> =B7      Syntax (Accepted)
> o      XPL Elements and Attributes
> o      Data Types
> o      I/O
> o      Patterns
> o      Component Interaction
> o      Object Model
>
> =B7      Syntax (Under Review)
> o      XPL Elements and Attributes

> o      Data Types
> o      I/O
> o      Patterns

[ Hmmm. I'll leave this alone too, for now.]

>

>
> o      Component Interaction
> o      Object Model

Should these be under Semantics?

>
>
> =B7      Appendices
> References
> Resources
>
> Group Members and Acknowledgements
>

That's about it for now.

More stuff tomorrow.

Jonathan
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., cagle@o... wrote:
Richard,

I'm actually in agreement with Michael on this -- we're talking about 
putting together an honest to god programming language here -- think 
Perl or Java or C++ and you get a pretty good idea about what that 
entails.

The best way to do this, IMHO, is to build the framework and 
language, get other people on board to critique and build, and get 
momentum behind it. I've written any number of proto-languages, and 
found that before you write a requirements spec together it helps to 
have a little clearer idea about what you want to have in there in 
the first place. I'd suggest that we put together the requirements 
document for our own use first, flesh out some first pass XPL working 
samples, then when we've got something solid enough submit the 
requirements doc to the W3C. This will take a while (take a look at 
Schemas, which are still not ratified after three years of intense 
negotiation), so there's no real need to hurry it.

-- Kurt
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Anthony Hein 
  To: xpl@e... 
  Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 7:32 AM
  Subject: RE: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft


  Michael,
   
  This is going to take a long time.  We won't submit anything until 
it's ready.  I am confused here; I thought of all the things we were 
going to do, submitting a Note (once ready) to the W3C was a sure 
thing.  When you say bigger players, they are also the ones who can 
fund real solid research, and I do think it's all opensource.  What 
makes you think it's not?
   
  Please tell me why you don't want to go to the W3C.  I am not 
saying let's go now, at all.  But you seem to be saying, we may not 
go ever.
   
  Richard A. Hein
   
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Michael Lauzon [mailto:ce940@f...]
    Sent: July 8, 2000 9:52 AM
    To: xpl@e...
    Subject: [XPL] Re: XPL Working Draft


    Richard, 

    I know you like the idea of submitting XPL to the W3C, but this
    should 
    wait a good while, remember XPL is open source; though I really 
    wouldn't call anything the W3C does as open source (though I am 
    probably wrong here).  So, let's get the framework down, and a
    working 
    copy of XPL first, before we decide to contact the bigger 
players, if 
    at all.  (Though if we did contact the W3C, XPL would have more 
    recognization).


    --- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
    > Hi everyone.  It's great that everyone seems keen again on 
getting 
    down to
    > some business.  I was starting to lose hope.  I hope now that 
soon 
    we will
    > have substantial gains made once we are able to answer the 
vital 
    questions
    > necessary to get to the next level:  establishing the actual 
    programming
    > model of XPL.  However, first we need to have a framework in 
place 
    in which
    > to operate.  Once this has become a reality, things will be 
much 
    more
    > organized, and we will all know where to put our ideas in order 
to 
    ensure
    > they are not lost in confusion, and will be addressed quickly.
    > 
    > In addition, this will encourage others to contribute where 
they 
    can, by
    > making it easier for them to focus on their strengths, access 
    information
    > related to their ideas and contributions more effectively, and 
have 
    an all
    > around better idea of the current and ongoing state of XPL.
    > 
    > Since this is a cooperative effort, I am asking you all to look 
at 
    this
    > table of contents, and add your points to the list of items 
where
    > appropriate (please refrain from writing up issues - just 
points at 
    issue
    > will be included).  Feel free to discuss, disseminate, and add 
    anything you
    > feel is necessary towards the development of XPL.  Once we have 
    established
    > a framework of issues from which we can easily draw information
    from 
    and put
    > information into, we will be on the way to some serious 
development.
    > 
    > You may note that this TOC is somewhat similar to the Working
    Drafts 
    that
    > the W3C issues.  This is not an accident.  The goal of this 
entire 
    document
    > is to eventually have a completed draft.  As a working draft, 
this 
    document
    > will be made available online, at our website, with links to 
    messages which
    > relate to the specific points.  It is the hope that this will 
    facilitate
    > easy access to ongoing discussions, while providing everyone 
with 
    the
    > overall picture of the project as a whole.  The final version of
    the 
    draft,
    > which will be submitted as a Note to the W3C, will have only 
the 
    accepted
    > points.
    > 
    > =B7      Abstract
    > 
    > =B7      Mission Statement
    > 
    > =B7      Vision(s)
    > 
    > =B7      Scope
    > 
    > =B7      Design Goals (Accepted)
    > 
    > =B7      Design Goals (Under Review)
    > 
    > =B7      Requirements (Accepted)
    > 
    > =B7      Requirements (Under Review)
    > 
    > =B7      Terminology (Accepted)
    > 
    > =B7      Terminology (Under Review)
    > 
    > =B7      Semantics (Accepted)
    > o      Data Model
    > o      Production Rules
    > 
    > =B7      Semantics (Under Review)
    > o      Data Model
    > o      Production Rules
    > 
    > =B7      Syntax (Accepted)
    > o      XPL Elements and Attributes
    > o      Data Types
    > o      I/O
    > o      Patterns
    > o      Component Interaction
    > o      Object Model
    > 
    > =B7      Syntax (Under Review)
    > o      XPL Elements and Attributes
    > o      Data Types
    > o      I/O
    > o      Patterns
    > o      Component Interaction
    > o      Object Model
    > 
    > =B7      Appendices
    > References
    > Resources
    > 
    > Group Members and Acknowledgements
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > =3D=3D Richard Anthony Hein =3D=3D

    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    xpl-unsubscribe@o...




----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  xpl-unsubscribe@o...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: XPL Working Draft

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Michael Lauzon" <ce940@f...> wrote:
Richard,

I know you like the idea of submitting XPL to the W3C, but this
should
wait a good while, remember XPL is open source; though I really
wouldn't call anything the W3C does as open source (though I am
probably wrong here).  So, let's get the framework down, and a
working
copy of XPL first, before we decide to contact the bigger players, if
at all.  (Though if we did contact the W3C, XPL would have more
recognization).


--- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
> Hi everyone.  It's great that everyone seems keen again on getting
down to
> some business.  I was starting to lose hope.  I hope now that soon
we will
> have substantial gains made once we are able to answer the vital
questions
> necessary to get to the next level:  establishing the actual
programming
> model of XPL.  However, first we need to have a framework in place
in which
> to operate.  Once this has become a reality, things will be much
more
> organized, and we will all know where to put our ideas in order to
ensure
> they are not lost in confusion, and will be addressed quickly.
>
> In addition, this will encourage others to contribute where they
can, by
> making it easier for them to focus on their strengths, access
information
> related to their ideas and contributions more effectively, and have
an all
> around better idea of the current and ongoing state of XPL.
>
> Since this is a cooperative effort, I am asking you all to look at
this
> table of contents, and add your points to the list of items where
> appropriate (please refrain from writing up issues - just points at
issue
> will be included).  Feel free to discuss, disseminate, and add
anything you
> feel is necessary towards the development of XPL.  Once we have
established
> a framework of issues from which we can easily draw information
from
and put
> information into, we will be on the way to some serious development.
>
> You may note that this TOC is somewhat similar to the Working
Drafts
that
> the W3C issues.  This is not an accident.  The goal of this entire
document
> is to eventually have a completed draft.  As a working draft, this
document
> will be made available online, at our website, with links to
messages which
> relate to the specific points.  It is the hope that this will
facilitate
> easy access to ongoing discussions, while providing everyone with
the
> overall picture of the project as a whole.  The final version of
the
draft,
> which will be submitted as a Note to the W3C, will have only the
accepted
> points.
>
> =B7	Abstract
>
> =B7	Mission Statement
>
> =B7	Vision(s)
>
> =B7	Scope
>
> =B7	Design Goals (Accepted)
>
> =B7	Design Goals (Under Review)
>
> =B7	Requirements (Accepted)
>
> =B7	Requirements (Under Review)
>
> =B7	Terminology (Accepted)
>
> =B7	Terminology (Under Review)
>
> =B7	Semantics (Accepted)
> o	Data Model
> o	Production Rules
>
> =B7	Semantics (Under Review)
> o	Data Model
> o	Production Rules
>
> =B7	Syntax (Accepted)
> o	XPL Elements and Attributes
> o	Data Types
> o	I/O
> o	Patterns
> o	Component Interaction
> o	Object Model
>
> =B7	Syntax (Under Review)
> o	XPL Elements and Attributes
> o	Data Types
> o	I/O
> o	Patterns
> o	Component Interaction
> o	Object Model
>
> =B7	Appendices
> References
> Resources
>
> Group Members and Acknowledgements
>
>
>
> =3D=3D Richard Anthony Hein =3D=3D
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: Output mechanisms: SOAP intro

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Michael Lauzon" <ce940@f...> wrote:
Like Kurt, I don't like SOAP...but that may be just me not fully 
liking anything Macrohard comes out with anymore.  :)  We could build 
our own (which is probably not the best idea at this point) or like 
RAH said, modify them.  I for one, haven't fully read up on SOAP, 
WorldOS, or BXXP (though the last one is still being built and 
documented).  

Michael



--- In xpl@e..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
> I agree with your views on transparency of SOAP within the XPL 
framework
> 100%, Kurt.
> 
> How much of this will be handled by XPL processes, and how much by 
the
> transport protocol?  WorldOS, or BXXP - (if it becomes opensource)?
 
Or we
> can take the best of both and modify WorldOS - Lucas, what's your 
opinion on
> this?
> 
> Richard A. Hein
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cagle@o... [mailto:cagle@o...]
> Sent: July 7, 2000 12:51 PM
> To: xpl@e...
> Subject: Re: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro
> 
> 
>   My primary misgivings with SOAP have more to do with their use as 
an
> interface into COM components and less as a messaging protocol
(it's 
pretty
> good in that respect), and then, as mentioned, primarily because of
> 1)security, 2) pushing of a procedural model into the declarative 
space of
> distributed applications, but the latter is just a personal bias.
> 
>   I would also point out that as far as interoperability goes, the 
SOAP
> message should be largely transparent to XPL users -- it should be 
generated
> and consumed by the XPL framework, not explicitly written by the
XPL 
users
> themselves. This is analogous to something like Visual Basic, where 
the
> complexity of COM is largely hidden behind the language framework
of 
Visual
> Basic. Thus an XPL object class would handle the eventing through 
SOAP
> mechanisms, but you as an XPL developer would never see these 
messages --
> you'd just write event handlers for intercepting them and rely on 
the
> framework to send the event messages to you.
> 
>   -- Kurt
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Richard Anthony Hein
>     To: xpl@e...
>     Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:11 AM
>     Subject: RE: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro
> 
> 
>     Jonathan,
> 
>     Certainly SOAP is powerful.  Plus it's getting worked on by
many 
groups,
> including the Apache XML project.  I have no problems with SOAP,
and 
it
> would be my first choice at this point.  However, let's not confuse 
the
> issue with XSL.  XSL isn't for components to communicate.  SOAP and 
XML-RPC
> are.  Whatever the standard accepted by the community will be, and
I 
am
> betting on SOAP at this point, we should use of course.  SOAP will 
allow XPL
> to talk to CORBA, COM and Java Beans.  It also will facilitate 
communication
> between XPL objects if necessary, but I am not sure it will be.  
Then again,
> if we want COM, Beans, and CORBA to talk to XPL objects, then yes, 
it will
> have to be wrapped in standard "envelopes" such as SOAP.
> 
>     So, in the XPL programming context, making a SOAP envelope 
should be
> simple as possible.  Some people however, have expressed concern 
over the
> fact that SOAP requires that you make the document root of your 
document the
> SOAP envelope.  Some people think that this degrades the document, 
by
> requiring actual changes to the document.  Mind you, when the raw 
document
> is packaged in the SOAP env. it's only then that it has to have 
changes,
> then when it's opened on the receiving end you should be able to 
strip off
> the envelope and have the normal document.  So I am not sure why 
there is so
> much concern about this.
> 
>     Kurt's misgivings are understandable.  How can we facilitate a 
security
> model to protect against improper usage of the local objects?  I am 
hoping
> that this issue is resolved soon before SOAP is widely accepted.  
But I am
> certain it can be overcome.  In the meantime, what should we do?  
Wait,
> build a security model for XPL usage of SOAP, dump SOAP, or just 
trust it
> will all be OK?
> 
>     This question needs to be addressed before we start talking 
about how we
> are going to facilitate communication between heterogeneous objects.
> 
>     Richard A. Hein
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: me@m... [mailto:me@m...]On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Burns
>       Sent: July 7, 2000 10:28 AM
>       To: xpl@e...
>       Subject: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro
> 
> 
> 
>       Back a couple of threads ago, Richard and I were debating XPL
> Requirements for output
>       mechanisms or formats. XSL? Remote Procedure Calls?
>       I mentioned SOAP partly because Kurt had expressed misgivings 
that it
> was TOO
>       powerful, providing access to local objects.
> 
>       Anyway, I've just found this nicely-written  introduction ,
on 
the
> Microsoft developers'
>       network site.
> 
>       The bottom line seems to be, that whatever will receive an 
http POST
> message can
>       be addressed via SOAP, and quite simply.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Jonathan Burns; saski@w...
>         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       xpl-unsubscribe@o...
> 
> 
> 
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     xpl-unsubscribe@o...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> --
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   xpl-unsubscribe@o...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] XPL Working Draft

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
Hi everyone.  It's great that everyone seems keen again on getting 
down to
some business.  I was starting to lose hope.  I hope now that soon we 
will
have substantial gains made once we are able to answer the vital 
questions
necessary to get to the next level:  establishing the actual 
programming
model of XPL.  However, first we need to have a framework in place in 
which
to operate.  Once this has become a reality, things will be much more
organized, and we will all know where to put our ideas in order to 
ensure
they are not lost in confusion, and will be addressed quickly.

In addition, this will encourage others to contribute where they can, 
by
making it easier for them to focus on their strengths, access 
information
related to their ideas and contributions more effectively, and have 
an all
around better idea of the current and ongoing state of XPL.

Since this is a cooperative effort, I am asking you all to look at 
this
table of contents, and add your points to the list of items where
appropriate (please refrain from writing up issues - just points at 
issue
will be included).  Feel free to discuss, disseminate, and add 
anything you
feel is necessary towards the development of XPL.  Once we have 
established
a framework of issues from which we can easily draw information from 
and put
information into, we will be on the way to some serious development.

You may note that this TOC is somewhat similar to the Working Drafts 
that
the W3C issues.  This is not an accident.  The goal of this entire 
document
is to eventually have a completed draft.  As a working draft, this 
document
will be made available online, at our website, with links to messages 
which
relate to the specific points.  It is the hope that this will 
facilitate
easy access to ongoing discussions, while providing everyone with the
overall picture of the project as a whole.  The final version of the 
draft,
which will be submitted as a Note to the W3C, will have only the 
accepted
points.

=B7	Abstract

=B7	Mission Statement

=B7	Vision(s)

=B7	Scope

=B7	Design Goals (Accepted)

=B7	Design Goals (Under Review)

=B7	Requirements (Accepted)

=B7	Requirements (Under Review)

=B7	Terminology (Accepted)

=B7	Terminology (Under Review)

=B7	Semantics (Accepted)
o	Data Model
o	Production Rules

=B7	Semantics (Under Review)
o	Data Model
o	Production Rules

=B7	Syntax (Accepted)
o	XPL Elements and Attributes
o	Data Types
o	I/O
o	Patterns
o	Component Interaction
o	Object Model

=B7	Syntax (Under Review)
o	XPL Elements and Attributes
o	Data Types
o	I/O
o	Patterns
o	Component Interaction
o	Object Model

=B7	Appendices
References
Resources

Group Members and Acknowledgements



=3D=3D Richard Anthony Hein =3D=3D
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] RE: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
I agree with your views on transparency of SOAP within the XPL 
framework
100%, Kurt.

How much of this will be handled by XPL processes, and how much by the
transport protocol?  WorldOS, or BXXP - (if it becomes opensource)?  
Or we
can take the best of both and modify WorldOS - Lucas, what's your 
opinion on
this?

Richard A. Hein

-----Original Message-----
From: cagle@o... [mailto:cagle@o...]
Sent: July 7, 2000 12:51 PM
To: xpl@e...
Subject: Re: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro


  My primary misgivings with SOAP have more to do with their use as an
interface into COM components and less as a messaging protocol (it's 
pretty
good in that respect), and then, as mentioned, primarily because of
1)security, 2) pushing of a procedural model into the declarative 
space of
distributed applications, but the latter is just a personal bias.

  I would also point out that as far as interoperability goes, the 
SOAP
message should be largely transparent to XPL users -- it should be 
generated
and consumed by the XPL framework, not explicitly written by the XPL 
users
themselves. This is analogous to something like Visual Basic, where 
the
complexity of COM is largely hidden behind the language framework of 
Visual
Basic. Thus an XPL object class would handle the eventing through SOAP
mechanisms, but you as an XPL developer would never see these 
messages --
you'd just write event handlers for intercepting them and rely on the
framework to send the event messages to you.

  -- Kurt
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Richard Anthony Hein
    To: xpl@e...
    Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:11 AM
    Subject: RE: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro


    Jonathan,

    Certainly SOAP is powerful.  Plus it's getting worked on by many 
groups,
including the Apache XML project.  I have no problems with SOAP, and 
it
would be my first choice at this point.  However, let's not confuse 
the
issue with XSL.  XSL isn't for components to communicate.  SOAP and 
XML-RPC
are.  Whatever the standard accepted by the community will be, and I 
am
betting on SOAP at this point, we should use of course.  SOAP will 
allow XPL
to talk to CORBA, COM and Java Beans.  It also will facilitate 
communication
between XPL objects if necessary, but I am not sure it will be.  Then 
again,
if we want COM, Beans, and CORBA to talk to XPL objects, then yes, it 
will
have to be wrapped in standard "envelopes" such as SOAP.

    So, in the XPL programming context, making a SOAP envelope should 
be
simple as possible.  Some people however, have expressed concern over 
the
fact that SOAP requires that you make the document root of your 
document the
SOAP envelope.  Some people think that this degrades the document, by
requiring actual changes to the document.  Mind you, when the raw 
document
is packaged in the SOAP env. it's only then that it has to have 
changes,
then when it's opened on the receiving end you should be able to 
strip off
the envelope and have the normal document.  So I am not sure why 
there is so
much concern about this.

    Kurt's misgivings are understandable.  How can we facilitate a 
security
model to protect against improper usage of the local objects?  I am 
hoping
that this issue is resolved soon before SOAP is widely accepted.  But 
I am
certain it can be overcome.  In the meantime, what should we do?  
Wait,
build a security model for XPL usage of SOAP, dump SOAP, or just 
trust it
will all be OK?

    This question needs to be addressed before we start talking about 
how we
are going to facilitate communication between heterogeneous objects.

    Richard A. Hein
      -----Original Message-----
      From: me@m... [mailto:me@m...]On
Behalf Of Jonathan Burns
      Sent: July 7, 2000 10:28 AM
      To: xpl@e...
      Subject: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro



      Back a couple of threads ago, Richard and I were debating XPL
Requirements for output
      mechanisms or formats. XSL? Remote Procedure Calls?
      I mentioned SOAP partly because Kurt had expressed misgivings 
that it
was TOO
      powerful, providing access to local objects.

      Anyway, I've just found this nicely-written  introduction , on 
the
Microsoft developers'
      network site.

      The bottom line seems to be, that whatever will receive an http 
POST
message can
      be addressed via SOAP, and quite simply.



--

Jonathan Burns; saski@w...
        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      xpl-unsubscribe@o...



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    xpl-unsubscribe@o...




----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
--



----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
--
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  xpl-unsubscribe@o...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., cagle@o... wrote:
My primary misgivings with SOAP have more to do with their use as an 
interface into COM components and less as a messaging protocol (it's 
pretty good in that respect), and then, as mentioned, primarily 
because of 1)security, 2) pushing of a procedural model into the 
declarative space of distributed applications, but the latter is just 
a personal bias.  

I would also point out that as far as interoperability goes, the SOAP 
message should be largely transparent to XPL users -- it should be 
generated and consumed by the XPL framework, not explicitly written 
by the XPL users themselves. This is analogous to something like 
Visual Basic, where the complexity of COM is largely hidden behind 
the language framework of Visual Basic. Thus an XPL object class 
would handle the eventing through SOAP mechanisms, but you as an XPL 
developer would never see these messages -- you'd just write event 
handlers for intercepting them and rely on the framework to send the 
event messages to you.

-- Kurt 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Anthony Hein 
  To: xpl@e... 
  Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:11 AM
  Subject: RE: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro


  Jonathan,
   
  Certainly SOAP is powerful.  Plus it's getting worked on by many 
groups, including the Apache XML project.  I have no problems with 
SOAP, and it would be my first choice at this point.  However, let's 
not confuse the issue with XSL.  XSL isn't for components to 
communicate.  SOAP and XML-RPC are.  Whatever the standard accepted 
by the community will be, and I am betting on SOAP at this point, we 
should use of course.  SOAP will allow XPL to talk to CORBA, COM and 
Java Beans.  It also will facilitate communication between XPL 
objects if necessary, but I am not sure it will be.  Then again, if 
we want COM, Beans, and CORBA to talk to XPL objects, then yes, it 
will have to be wrapped in standard "envelopes" such as SOAP.
   
  So, in the XPL programming context, making a SOAP envelope should 
be simple as possible.  Some people however, have expressed concern 
over the fact that SOAP requires that you make the document root of 
your document the SOAP envelope.  Some people think that this 
degrades the document, by requiring actual changes to the document.  
Mind you, when the raw document is packaged in the SOAP env. it's 
only then that it has to have changes, then when it's opened on the 
receiving end you should be able to strip off the envelope and have 
the normal document.  So I am not sure why there is so much concern 
about this.
   
  Kurt's misgivings are understandable.  How can we facilitate a 
security model to protect against improper usage of the local 
objects?  I am hoping that this issue is resolved soon before SOAP is 
widely accepted.  But I am certain it can be overcome.  In the 
meantime, what should we do?  Wait, build a security model for XPL 
usage of SOAP, dump SOAP, or just trust it will all be OK?  
   
  This question needs to be addressed before we start talking about 
how we are going to facilitate communication between heterogeneous 
objects.
   
  Richard A. Hein
    -----Original Message-----
    From: me@m... [mailto:me@m...]On Behalf Of Jonathan Burns
    Sent: July 7, 2000 10:28 AM
    To: xpl@e...
    Subject: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro


      
    Back a couple of threads ago, Richard and I were debating XPL 
Requirements for output 
    mechanisms or formats. XSL? Remote Procedure Calls? 
    I mentioned SOAP partly because Kurt had expressed misgivings 
that it was TOO 
    powerful, providing access to local objects. 

    Anyway, I've just found this nicely-written  introduction , on 
the Microsoft developers' 
    network site. 

    The bottom line seems to be, that whatever will receive an http 
POST message can 
    be addressed via SOAP, and quite simply. 
      
      

-- 

Jonathan Burns; saski@w...
      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    xpl-unsubscribe@o...




----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  xpl-unsubscribe@o...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] RE: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
Jonathan,

Certainly SOAP is powerful.  Plus it's getting worked on by many 
groups,
including the Apache XML project.  I have no problems with SOAP, and 
it
would be my first choice at this point.  However, let's not confuse 
the
issue with XSL.  XSL isn't for components to communicate.  SOAP and 
XML-RPC
are.  Whatever the standard accepted by the community will be, and I 
am
betting on SOAP at this point, we should use of course.  SOAP will 
allow XPL
to talk to CORBA, COM and Java Beans.  It also will facilitate 
communication
between XPL objects if necessary, but I am not sure it will be.  Then 
again,
if we want COM, Beans, and CORBA to talk to XPL objects, then yes, it 
will
have to be wrapped in standard "envelopes" such as SOAP.

So, in the XPL programming context, making a SOAP envelope should be 
simple
as possible.  Some people however, have expressed concern over the 
fact that
SOAP requires that you make the document root of your document the 
SOAP
envelope.  Some people think that this degrades the document, by 
requiring
actual changes to the document.  Mind you, when the raw document is 
packaged
in the SOAP env. it's only then that it has to have changes, then 
when it's
opened on the receiving end you should be able to strip off the 
envelope and
have the normal document.  So I am not sure why there is so much 
concern
about this.

Kurt's misgivings are understandable.  How can we facilitate a 
security
model to protect against improper usage of the local objects?  I am 
hoping
that this issue is resolved soon before SOAP is widely accepted.  But 
I am
certain it can be overcome.  In the meantime, what should we do?  
Wait,
build a security model for XPL usage of SOAP, dump SOAP, or just 
trust it
will all be OK?

This question needs to be addressed before we start talking about how 
we are
going to facilitate communication between heterogeneous objects.

Richard A. Hein
  -----Original Message-----
  From: me@m... [mailto:me@m...]On
Behalf Of Jonathan Burns
  Sent: July 7, 2000 10:28 AM
  To: xpl@e...
  Subject: [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro



  Back a couple of threads ago, Richard and I were debating XPL 
Requirements
for output
  mechanisms or formats. XSL? Remote Procedure Calls?
  I mentioned SOAP partly because Kurt had expressed misgivings that 
it was
TOO
  powerful, providing access to local objects.

  Anyway, I've just found this nicely-written  introduction , on the
Microsoft developers'
  network site.

  The bottom line seems to be, that whatever will receive an http POST
message can
  be addressed via SOAP, and quite simply.



--

Jonathan Burns; saski@w...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
--



----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
--
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  xpl-unsubscribe@o...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] RE: [XPL] XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
Certainly!

Richard A. Hein
  -----Original Message-----
  From: me@m... [mailto:me@m...]On
Behalf Of Jonathan Burns
  Sent: July 7, 2000 10:43 AM
  To: xpl@e...
  Subject: Re: [XPL] XPL Mascot....


  Michael Lauzon wrote:
   :-)  I suppose so!  So, I guess people like the xplatypus idea.  
All you
need is a dictionary eh?  I made up a whole l> ist of xpl* combos.  
Mike's
got a copy.  If VBXML has hosting that allows virtual hosting, then 
we can
use that site, and a domain name.  Mark?  We have to register this 
quick, or
I am afraid it'll be gone in a few hours.


  Just one thing. As a patriotic Aussie, can I ask that we hold off
  naming the little monotreme, until I've checked out the indigenous
  name(s) for it? I suspect there's one that runs trippingly on the
  tongue...

  Jonathan




----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
--



----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
--
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  xpl-unsubscribe@o...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Michael Lauzon" <ce940@f...> wrote:
-- In xpl@e..., Jonathan Burns <saski@w...> wrote:
> Michael Lauzon wrote:

Jonathan, 

I didn't write the below, Richard did.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>  :-)  I suppose so!  So, I guess people like the xplatypus idea.  
All
> you need is a dictionary eh?  I made up a whole l> ist of xpl* 
combos.
> Mike's got a copy.  If VBXML has hosting that allows virtual 
hosting,
> then we can use that site, and a domain name.  Mark?  We have to
> register this quick, or I am afraid it'll be gone in a few hours.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Just one thing. As a patriotic Aussie, can I ask that we hold off
> naming the little monotreme, until I've checked out the indigenous
> name(s) for it? I suspect there's one that runs trippingly on the
> tongue...
> 
> Jonathan
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: [XPL] XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Jonathan Burns <saski@w...> wrote:
Michael Lauzon wrote:

 :-)  I suppose so!  So, I guess people like the xplatypus idea.  All
you need is a dictionary eh?  I made up a whole l> ist of xpl* combos.
Mike's got a copy.  If VBXML has hosting that allows virtual hosting,
then we can use that site, and a domain name.  Mark?  We have to
register this quick, or I am afraid it'll be gone in a few hours.


Just one thing. As a patriotic Aussie, can I ask that we hold off
naming the little monotreme, until I've checked out the indigenous
name(s) for it? I suspect there's one that runs trippingly on the
tongue...

Jonathan
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] [xpl] Output mechanisms: SOAP intro

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Jonathan Burns <saski@w...> wrote:

Back a couple of threads ago, Richard and I were debating XPL
Requirements for output
mechanisms or formats. XSL? Remote Procedure Calls?

I mentioned SOAP partly because Kurt had expressed misgivings that it
was TOO
powerful, providing access to local objects.

Anyway, I've just found this nicely-written  introduction , on the
Microsoft developers'
network site.

The bottom line seems to be, that whatever will receive an http POST
message can
be addressed via SOAP, and quite simply.



--

Jonathan Burns; saski@w...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] RE: [XPL] XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Michael Lauzon <ce940@f...> wrote:



Richard, 

I like Xplatypus as a mascot name, but not a domain name.  Also, I 
may 
have deleted the list by mistake.  Can you send me another copy to my 
other email address please.  We should register xpl-source and/or 
xplsource.


On Thu, 6 Jul 2000, Richard Anthony Hein wrote:

> :-)  I suppose so!  So, I guess people like the xplatypus idea.  
All you
> need is a dictionary eh?  I made up a whole list of xpl* combos.  
Mike's got
> a copy.  If VBXML has hosting that allows virtual hosting, then we 
can use
> that site, and a domain name.  Mark?  We have to register this 
quick, or I
> am afraid it'll be gone in a few hours.
> 
> Richard
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: cagle@o... [mailto:cagle@o...]
>   Sent: July 6, 2000 12:46 PM
>   To: xpl@e...
>   Subject: Re: [XPL] XPL Mascot....
> 
> 
>   Of course, you could always call it Anna (from Ornithorynchous 
Anatinas,
> the
>   Greek name for the platypus).
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Michael Lauzon" <ce940@f...>
>   To: <xpl@e...>
>   Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 9:02 AM
>   Subject: [XPL] XPL Mascot....
> 
> 
>   > Richard sent me an email with ideas for a domain name, when we
>   > eventually grow to big for the VBXML site.  He also mentioned a
>   > mascot.  And to this, I think is a good idea.  Because...Linux, 
has a
>   > penguin; Windows has a window; Apple, has an apple; so we 
should have
>   > a platypus (and here is what RAH wrote):
>   >
>   > xplatypus - it makes a great site mascot - the platypus - plus 
it
>   > denotes XPL's quality of using heterogenous data and supporting
>   > various technologies! :-)
>   >
>   > The Linux world named their mascot Tux (I think), so we will 
name our
>   > mascot: Xplatypus.
>   >
>   > Michael
>   >
>   >
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>   > Add the interactive dimension to your web pages.
>   > Use the MozquitoTM Factory with your editor and form the web 
today!
>   > Form the Web today - visit:
>   > http://click.egroups.com/1/5771/2/_/809694/_/962899390/
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>   >
>   > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   > xpl-unsubscribe@o...
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> --
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> --
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   xpl-unsubscribe@o...
> 
> 
> 
> 

Michael
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/9180/

'Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you may work.'
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: [XPL] XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Michael Lauzon <ce940@f...> wrote:
Kurt,

No, don't think so...Xplatypus is quite alright.




On Thu, 6 Jul 2000 cagle@o... wrote:

> Of course, you could always call it Anna (from Ornithorynchous 
Anatinas, the
> Greek name for the platypus).
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Lauzon" <ce940@f...>
> To: <xpl@e...>
> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 9:02 AM
> Subject: [XPL] XPL Mascot....
> 
> 
> > Richard sent me an email with ideas for a domain name, when we
> > eventually grow to big for the VBXML site.  He also mentioned a
> > mascot.  And to this, I think is a good idea.  Because...Linux, 
has a
> > penguin; Windows has a window; Apple, has an apple; so we should 
have
> > a platypus (and here is what RAH wrote):
> >
> > xplatypus - it makes a great site mascot - the platypus - plus it
> > denotes XPL's quality of using heterogenous data and supporting
> > various technologies! :-)
> >
> > The Linux world named their mascot Tux (I think), so we will name 
our
> > mascot: Xplatypus.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> > Add the interactive dimension to your web pages.
> > Use the MozquitoTM Factory with your editor and form the web 
today!
> > Form the Web today - visit:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5771/2/_/809694/_/962899390/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > xpl-unsubscribe@o...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Replace complicated scripts using 14 new HTML tags that work in
> current browsers.
> Form the Web today - visit:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5769/2/_/809694/_/962902460/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> xpl-unsubscribe@o...
> 
> 
> 
> 

Michael
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/9180/

'Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you may work.'
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] RE: [XPL] RE: XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:
(All right, this is my third try ... seems I found an interesting 
little bug
in Outlook 2000 - it totally locks up when I try to use the reverse-
indent
button in a particular way.)


  -----Original Message-----
  From: me@m... [mailto:me@m...]On
Behalf Of Jonathan Burns
  Sent: July 7, 2000 4:45 AM
  To: xpl@e...
  Subject: Re: [XPL] RE: XPL Mascot....


  Mark Wilson wrote:

    Richard and XPL... we are all now the proud owners of
    XPLatypus.com

  Fantastic!
  [RAH]

  Yes, thanks Mark!  It was good to wake up to your announcement!  
Excellent
work!  :-D




    I am getting my own dedicated box for all the projects
    and ideas I have or am involved in (Kurt's XPipes and
    so on), this is slated to arrive mid next week.


    [RAH] Cool!  What are you getting??  What are you going to run on 
it?
Have you decided yet?  Just curious!

    The SP is Bitshop.com and they have been "reliable"
    until now.  So, I would say give it at least 2 weeks
    before I can set that website up for you.  Until then
    get set up on VBXML.COM please.


  Righto. I'll schedule time this weekend, to assemble URLs for
  what I want there. I'll pass the info through to Michael, and
  we'll collaborate. Mike has a Geocities page that's crammed
  with stuff, he's solid on Web design.

  [RAH]   OK, and I'll get that compilation done;  the main idea 
being an
overview of issues discussed and where we are at; what's needed 
etc....  I
think we should have a poll on our mission statement too.

    It will have online discussion stuff (for visitors)
    and a links database thingy and so on.  I can even
    archive this discussion onto the website if you like.

  I endorse ALL this. Subject to checking from the other active 
members,
  I think we'd  be crazy to pass up any of it.

  [RAH] I concur on this.  There isn't any reason not too, that I can 
think
of.

    On the other hand, you may not want me to prebuild
    anything... after all, perhapd XPLatypus should be
    built from the ground up by using XPL?


  That's for later.

  [RAH] On one hand that makes sense.  On the other hand, that means 
it'll
be a long time coming.  If anyone has a very good reason for wanting 
to keep
XPLatypus "pure" XPL from the start, then speak up.  I think we can 
just
take down whatever is in place and put up the XPL as we go.  But like 
I
said, if anyone has a reason....

    In the meantime, move into VBXML.COM and I will move
    you over later and provide the new login and password
    etc...  NOTE:  All pages on VBXML.COM have a header
    and a footer, so when you upload your .asp files
    (which is IDENTICAL to an .htm file) make sure the
    share central header and footer are in it!  Then when
    you give the signal (the secret whistle from the movie
    will do) I will add XPL!

    [RAH] Gotcha!
    P.S. I thought xplalidocious (as in
    super-cala-fraja-listic-xplalidocious) was a good
    name... but it was taken.  Alas!


    [RAH] Hey!  That would have been good too ... but no mascot! :-)

    This is excellent momentum!  I hope every one has a
    great time.  I am building some other websites and
    ideas and I hope in the long run to create an
    environment in which XPL and other projects can find a
    synergystic home.

    Cheers,
    Mark.


  Three hearty ones!

  [RAH] Couldn't agree more, thanks Mark!


  Richard A. Hein

----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
--



----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
--
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  xpl-unsubscribe@o...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] Re: [XPL] RE: XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Jonathan Burns <saski@w...> wrote:
Mark Wilson wrote:

>
> Richard and XPL... we are all now the proud owners of
> XPLatypus.com

Fantastic!

>
>
> I am getting my own dedicated box for all the projects
> and ideas I have or am involved in (Kurt's XPipes and
> so on), this is slated to arrive mid next week.
>
> The SP is Bitshop.com and they have been "reliable"
> until now.  So, I would say give it at least 2 weeks
> before I can set that website up for you.  Until then
> get set up on VBXML.COM please.
>

Righto. I'll schedule time this weekend, to assemble URLs for
what I want there. I'll pass the info through to Michael, and
we'll collaborate. Mike has a Geocities page that's crammed
with stuff, he's solid on Web design.

>
> It will have online discussion stuff (for visitors)
> and a links database thingy and so on.  I can even
> archive this discussion onto the website if you like.
>

I endorse ALL this. Subject to checking from the other active members,
I think we'd  be crazy to pass up any of it.

>
> On the other hand, you may not want me to prebuild
> anything... after all, perhapd XPLatypus should be
> built from the ground up by using XPL?
>

That's for later.

>
> In the meantime, move into VBXML.COM and I will move
> you over later and provide the new login and password
> etc...  NOTE:  All pages on VBXML.COM have a header
> and a footer, so when you upload your .asp files
> (which is IDENTICAL to an .htm file) make sure the
> share central header and footer are in it!  Then when
> you give the signal (the secret whistle from the movie
> will do) I will add XPL!
>
> P.S. I thought xplalidocious (as in
> super-cala-fraja-listic-xplalidocious) was a good
> name... but it was taken.  Alas!
>
> This is excellent momentum!  I hope every one has a
> great time.  I am building some other websites and
> ideas and I hope in the long run to create an
> environment in which XPL and other projects can find a
> synergystic home.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark.
>

Three hearty ones!

--

Jonathan Burns; saski@w...
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] RE: XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., Mark Wilson <mark_tracey@y...> wrote:

Richard and XPL... we are all now the proud owners of
XPLatypus.com

I am getting my own dedicated box for all the projects
and ideas I have or am involved in (Kurt's XPipes and
so on), this is slated to arrive mid next week.

The SP is Bitshop.com and they have been "reliable"
until now.  So, I would say give it at least 2 weeks
before I can set that website up for you.  Until then
get set up on VBXML.COM please.

It will have online discussion stuff (for visitors)
and a links database thingy and so on.  I can even
archive this discussion onto the website if you like.

On the other hand, you may not want me to prebuild
anything... after all, perhapd XPLatypus should be
built from the ground up by using XPL?

In the meantime, move into VBXML.COM and I will move
you over later and provide the new login and password
etc...  NOTE:  All pages on VBXML.COM have a header
and a footer, so when you upload your .asp files
(which is IDENTICAL to an .htm file) make sure the
share central header and footer are in it!  Then when
you give the signal (the secret whistle from the movie
will do) I will add XPL!

P.S. I thought xplalidocious (as in
super-cala-fraja-listic-xplalidocious) was a good
name... but it was taken.  Alas!

This is excellent momentum!  I hope every one has a
great time.  I am building some other websites and
ideas and I hope in the long run to create an
environment in which XPL and other projects can find a
synergystic home.

Cheers,
Mark.




   Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:31:23 -0400
   From: "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...>
Subject: RE: XPL Mascot....

:-)  I suppose so!  So, I guess people like the
xplatypus idea.  All 
you
need is a dictionary eh?  I made up a whole list of
xpl* combos.  
Mike's got
a copy.  If VBXML has hosting that allows virtual
hosting, then we can 
use
that site, and a domain name.  Mark?  We have to
register this quick, 
or I
am afraid it'll be gone in a few hours.

Richard
  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] XPL Mascot....

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Michael Lauzon" <ce940@f...> wrote:
Richard sent me an email with ideas for a domain name, when we 
eventually grow to big for the VBXML site.  He also mentioned a 
mascot.  And to this, I think is a good idea.  Because...Linux, has a 
penguin; Windows has a window; Apple, has an apple; so we should have 
a platypus (and here is what RAH wrote):

xplatypus - it makes a great site mascot - the platypus - plus it
denotes XPL's quality of using heterogenous data and supporting
various technologies! :-)

The Linux world named their mascot Tux (I think), so we will name our 
mascot: Xplatypus.

Michael
--- End forwarded message ---

[exprla-devel] FW: RE: FW: XPL Domain name suggestions

[reid_spencer <ras...@re...>]

--- In xpl-dev@y..., "Richard Anthony Hein" <935551@i...> wrote:


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Lauzon [mailto:xpl@f...]
Sent: July 6, 2000 11:51 AM
To: 935551@i...
Subject: Re: RE: FW: XPL Domain name suggestions


It would be suggestable to send this to the list, though I LOVE your 
mascot idea.  Linux, has a penguin; Windows, has a picture of a 
window; so XPL, will have a platypus.  :)

> Michael,
>
> I'll throw around some of these, as I go through the pl* section
> of the dictionary:
>
> xplasma - (plasma is from the Greek meaning something molded - I
> like this) xplasia - (plasia is from the Gr. meaning development,
> formation) xplasm - (same as plasma)
> xplasmid - (ring of extrachromasomal DNA which replicates
> autonomously in bacteria)
> xplast - (molded or an organized particle or ganule: cell)
> xpliable - (capable of of adapting to various conditions -
> something easily bent, folded, twisted or manipulated)
> xpliant - (stresses flexibility and sometimes connotes
> springiness, unlike pliable which does not "spring back")
> xplastic - (plastic means formative, creative, capable of being
> molded or modeled, capable of adapting and more)
> xplastid - (any of various cytoplasmic organelles of
> photosynthetic cells that serve in many cases as centers of
> special metabolic activities) xplateau
> xplatform
> xplatinum
> xplatina - of the color platinum
> xplatoon - (he he he!  I like this one :-)
> xplatypus - (I guarantee that once XPL takes off, someone will use
> these last two - it makes a great site mascot - the platypus -
> plus it denotes XPL's quality of using heterogenous data and
> supporting various technologies! :-)
> xplaza
> xpleb -ian - (doesn't sound like a nice term for users ...)
> xplus
> xplenary (complete in every respect: absolute)
> xplenitude - (fullness, completeness, abundance)
> xplenum (full of matter or a general assembly of all members)
> xplexus (an interwoven combination of parts or elements in a
> structure or system - like this one.  Also means a network of
> anastomosing or interlacing blood vessels or nerves)
> xply (to twist together, braid, interweave)
> xplinth (the lowest base: subbase, a block serving as a base, a
> continuous foundation or base course formed by a course of stones)
> xplozhen (just using the phonetic sound there)
> xpluto
>
> I hope there is one in there that everyone likes.
>
> I didn't check if any are taken.
>
> Richard Anthony Hein
>
>
>
>
--- End forwarded message ---