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From: Jac K. <j.k...@th...> - 2003-10-26 11:36:00
|
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Ted Kosan wrote: > This is good news. Now what about the matching male plugs that the > older power supplies had that were used to plug a monitor into? Here is > something similar to what I mean: We're using those as well. > Except that instead of having a Power Supply/Monitor female end on it, > it has an 'extension cord' female end on it that standard appliances can > plug in to. Haven't seen any of these around. We could make them as the parts are available. > > sure to have a gap of at least 5 millimeters between the 240V traces > > and everything else (other traces, components not connected to 240V, > > case etc) to comply with safety regulations... > > Thanks for this information, it should come in handy in the future. After rereading the safety instructions another time I found this should be 6 mm. > But this information is useful right now! I had went with slow blow > fuses in the prototypes. What is the reason for requiring fast blow > fuses? The safety instructions allow both fast and slow fuses. However, more and more homes (and office buildings as well) have electronic fuses installed and a lot of them are the fast kind. It would be nice if the appliance fuse triggers before the fuse one level up does. I've been looking for an english translation of the 1 sheet safety tips extract I found. No luck so far. Anyone got the time to translate dutch->english? (Or do you read dutch Ted?) Regards, Jac -- Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.k...@th... http://www.the-box.com |
|
From: Kelly S. <be...@ea...> - 2003-10-26 07:06:14
|
Dear Ted - I have two of Bruce Boyes' TStiks here with the JXTA socket. I would like to get started, but see that there is no source code at JackNet: http://jacknet.jxta.org/source/browse/jacknet/ Are "previews" available? I'll take a zip file at be...@ea..., anytime! Best regards, Kelly Smith -----Original Message----- From: emb...@li... [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted Kosan Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 11:02 PM To: emb...@li... Subject: [Embedlets-dev] JackNet and Embedlets at next JXTA Town Hall meeting Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] _______________________________________________ Well, the Embedlets project is almost a year old now and I can not believe how much headway we have made in this short time. One of the primary goals of the Embedlets project was to give Embedded Java visibility in the overall Java community and this aspect of Embedlets looks like it is going to exceed expectations. The Global Light Blinker project has be renamed to the JackNet project (http://jacknet.jxta.org) and JackNet/Embedlets are going to be discussed at the next JXTA town hall meeting on November 6th. Even at this early stage, though, I have a strong 'gut feel' that JackNet is going to be huge but we will have a better feel for this after the JXTA team demonstrates the initial Beta JackNet appliance controllers in a couple of weeks (if I can get them there in time that is...). So, this is the list's official 'heads up' that JackNet/Embedlets are beginning to move forward and it may prove to be an interesting ride. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: The SF.net Donation Program. Do you like what SourceForge.net is doing for the Open Source Community? Make a contribution, and help us add new features and functionality. Click here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ _______________________________________________ Embedlets-developer mailing list Emb...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-26 06:05:13
|
Well, the Embedlets project is almost a year old now and I can not believe how much headway we have made in this short time. One of the primary goals of the Embedlets project was to give Embedded Java visibility in the overall Java community and this aspect of Embedlets looks like it is going to exceed expectations. The Global Light Blinker project has be renamed to the JackNet project (http://jacknet.jxta.org) and JackNet/Embedlets are going to be discussed at the next JXTA town hall meeting on November 6th. Even at this early stage, though, I have a strong 'gut feel' that JackNet is going to be huge but we will have a better feel for this after the JXTA team demonstrates the initial Beta JackNet appliance controllers in a couple of weeks (if I can get them there in time that is...). So, this is the list's official 'heads up' that JackNet/Embedlets are beginning to move forward and it may prove to be an interesting ride. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-18 15:49:29
|
Jac wrote: > European power supplies use the same connector on the power supply. This is good news. Now what about the matching male plugs that the older power supplies had that were used to plug a monitor into? Here is something similar to what I mean: http://us.st7.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/directron_1760_488748032 Except that instead of having a Power Supply/Monitor female end on it, it has an 'extension cord' female end on it that standard appliances can plug in to. Are these 'extension cord' type cables available over in Europe? > If you're designing boards that will be connected to 240V, please make > sure to have a gap of at least 5 millimeters between the 240V traces and > everything else (other traces, components not connected to 240V, case etc) > to comply with safety regulations... Thanks for this information, it should come in handy in the future. >And you'll need to add a fast fuse in > the power input of the design as well. But this information is useful right now! I had went with slow blow fuses in the prototypes. What is the reason for requiring fast blow fuses? Thanks, Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Jac K. <j.k...@th...> - 2003-10-18 11:56:19
|
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Ted Kosan wrote: > Anyway, the JackNet controller boxes are designed to work with all world > power systems and you can help out a bit here by telling me if the PC > power supplies over there use a standard power supply cord that plugs > into power supplies like this one: > > http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/B452-3108.jpg European power supplies use the same connector on the power supply. If you're designing boards that will be connected to 240V, please make sure to have a gap of at least 5 millimeters between the 240V traces and everything else (other traces, components not connected to 240V, case etc) to comply with safety regulations... And you'll need to add a fast fuse in the power input of the design as well. Regards, Jac -- Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.k...@th... http://www.the-box.com |
|
From: Nicola K. B. <nic...@ap...> - 2003-10-17 07:00:45
|
Christopher Smith wrote:
...
> Would the Apache foundation give us more exposure? If so then it is a good
> thing.
Well, yes it would, but beware that there are other things attached.
- you will be giving the rights of the software to Apache (although
each individual committer is still free to do what he wants with
the parts he exclusively wrote)
- the project will be run using the Apache rules, that is with
meritrocracy and voting; this means that the core developers
will loose formal control of the project decisions, that will
be taken collectively by all developers
There is good in this, as these things will hopefully make the project
outlive the original creators, which is in the intent of Apache.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nic...@ap...
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-16 23:51:33
|
Chris wrote: > Do you have more info on the JackNet technology? Yeah, in essence it is Bill Joy's 6th web which is the web for embedded devices and it consists of a network of Embedlet container-based nodes utilizing an internet overlay technology provided by JXTA (see http://www.jxta.org/project/www/busmktg.html) and also perhaps JINI. JXTA provides the complete secure jackability infrastructure and Embedlets provide the embedded logic and also the extremely critical inter-Embedlet-container protocol. The Embedlet containers can then be wired together (graphically or otherwise) just like the Embedlets themselves are, thereby allowing distributed applications to be snapped together with relative ease. The beauty of this is that this protocol consists of simply having the JXTA layer route a certain class of Embedlet container messages between containers. JXTA allows these containers to exist anywhere on the Internet, regardless of whether or not they are behind NAT boxes or firewalls, using a secure and reliable transport. I think that the hard work that you and Gregg and Andrzej did on the container and protocol design is going to start to pay off in a big way in the near future. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-16 23:31:39
|
Jac wrote: > I still need some eye cathing demo, the last two years we had one of the > Jstamp driven Fantazeins on display, a great way to attract attention (and > I'm still surprised it survived two years of being poked at by people from > 8 to 80...) > > Now if I could create something nice based on your demo... (ideas are very > welcome) As soon as one is able to dynamically control home appliances through a network the possibilities for demonstrations opens up significantly. For example, imagine a table with a number of JackNet devices like a fan, a thermostat, a motion detector, a switch, an alarm, a number of lamp controllers, a cell phone, etc. People can just walk up to the table and start jacking together whatever kind of system they would like and then configuring it using a graphic wiring tool. Of course, the Embedlet wiring tool is still a ways off but in the mean time they could use JackNetBASIC in order to configure their systems (because it is so simple to use). Anyway, the JackNet controller boxes are designed to work with all world power systems and you can help out a bit here by telling me if the PC power supplies over there use a standard power supply cord that plugs into power supplies like this one: http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/B452-3108.jpg The JackNet devices can control up to 240 volt appliances and I am hoping to leverage the PC power supply connertor standards (both male and female) for them. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Christopher S. <cs...@oo...> - 2003-10-16 22:32:17
|
Ted, Do you have more info on the JackNet technology? Would the Apache foundation give us more exposure? If so then it is a good thing. Chris > > Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] > _______________________________________________ > > I gave the Embedlets talk last night to the Columbus Ohio ACM > group and it was > very well received. > > As I was putting together the presentation, I struggled with trying to > determine the correct level of conceptual abstraction to relay > the information > at and what I came up with is what I call the JackNet concept. > > I brought a GlobalLightBlinker controller box to the talk and > effectively said > "JackNet is an internet overlay technology which is designed to > allow any kind > of JacketNet compliant devices anywhere in the world to be jacked > into the net > as needed for any desired purpose. This is regardless of whether > or not the > devices are sitting behind NAT boxes or firewalls. > > I then proceeded to jack the controller box into the network, > jack a lamp into > it, jack my PC into the network and then just start remotely > controlling the > lamp. > > And they just simply and instantly 'got it' and I knew this because they > started clapping (with emotion) as soon as the light turned on. > > I personally think that the JackNet concept is the 'royal road' > to marketing > Embedlet technology to the masses and I personally plan to > promote it with a > will. > > > > In a related issue, I would like the group's permission for me to > work with > Nicola to approach Appache with the idea of bringing the > Embedlets project into > the Apache foundation. We are not at this time deciding to > actually do this > but rather we are just opening up a dialog and seeing where it goes. > > > Does anyone have a problem with this? > > Ted > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. > SourceForge.net hosts over 70,000 Open Source Projects. > See the people who have HELPED US provide better services: > Click here: http://sourceforge.net/supporters.php > _______________________________________________ > Embedlets-developer mailing list > Emb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer > |
|
From: Jac K. <j.k...@th...> - 2003-10-16 20:52:22
|
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Ted Kosan wrote: > I then proceeded to jack the controller box into the network, jack a > lamp into it, jack my PC into the network and then just start remotely > controlling the lamp. Looks like the hands on demo one needs. Hmmm, in just over one month we'll have a large computer show over here. Last year over 100,000 people visited the 3 day event being organised by over 1000 volunteers. Like the last few years I'll be in the Unix User Group booth which is traditionaly next to the C & Java User Group booth... (sometime we even share the same [large] booth) I still need some eye cathing demo, the last two years we had one of the Jstamp driven Fantazeins on display, a great way to attract attention (and I'm still surprised it survived two years of being poked at by people from 8 to 80...) Now if I could create something nice based on your demo... (ideas are very welcome) > In a related issue, I would like the group's permission for me to work > with Nicola to approach Appache with the idea of bringing the Embedlets > project into the Apache foundation. We are not at this time deciding to > actually do this but rather we are just opening up a dialog and seeing > where it goes. +1 Regards, Jac -- Jac Kersing Technical Consultant The-Box Development j.k...@th... http://www.the-box.com |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-16 15:59:08
|
I gave the Embedlets talk last night to the Columbus Ohio ACM group and it was very well received. As I was putting together the presentation, I struggled with trying to determine the correct level of conceptual abstraction to relay the information at and what I came up with is what I call the JackNet concept. I brought a GlobalLightBlinker controller box to the talk and effectively said "JackNet is an internet overlay technology which is designed to allow any kind of JacketNet compliant devices anywhere in the world to be jacked into the net as needed for any desired purpose. This is regardless of whether or not the devices are sitting behind NAT boxes or firewalls. I then proceeded to jack the controller box into the network, jack a lamp into it, jack my PC into the network and then just start remotely controlling the lamp. And they just simply and instantly 'got it' and I knew this because they started clapping (with emotion) as soon as the light turned on. I personally think that the JackNet concept is the 'royal road' to marketing Embedlet technology to the masses and I personally plan to promote it with a will. In a related issue, I would like the group's permission for me to work with Nicola to approach Appache with the idea of bringing the Embedlets project into the Apache foundation. We are not at this time deciding to actually do this but rather we are just opening up a dialog and seeing where it goes. Does anyone have a problem with this? Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Gregg G. W. <gr...@sk...> - 2003-10-14 03:28:02
|
>On the grounds of pure logic I would have to agree with you but then again by >pure logic, BasicStamp, BasicX and PICBasic should have been scrapped as >hopelessly obsolete years ago and yet these Embedded systems technologies >outsell Embedded Java by many orders of magnitude and their markets continue to >increase in size. This is basically because people believe that programming a computer ought to be simple. While languages, such as basic, make it easier, they don't necessarily provide simplicity. >JBASIC simply acknowledges this fact, provides a way for this huge group of >developers to get up and running on Embedded Java based systems as painlessly >as possible and then does them a further service by providing the easiest path >possible for them to transition to Object Oriented technologies if they are >interested. >JBASIC will be able to use the 'reference' data type and so it will be able to >invoke methods on Java objects. Parts of it should look similar to Java >Script. I think the logical thing to provide is the translation of the JBasic source into a single class and method of Java Language that would allow them to start using Java immediately if they hit a brick wall. Then, you will also see people doing speed/performance comparisons and doing other things to bait the basic users to switch to java. But they can still make the decision to do that when they need to... This really gives me a creapy feeling, but I can't hardly argue with Ted's reasoning. I just don't have to like it :-) ----- gr...@cy... (Cyte Technologies Inc) |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-14 02:51:03
|
Chris wrote: > I appreciate the difficulty in teaching an advanced language such as Java > with its numerous OOP assumptions, but I also have reservations regarding > the presentation of a Basic interpreter on top of a byte code interpreter as > a viable contender in the embedded market. On the grounds of pure logic I would have to agree with you but then again by pure logic, BasicStamp, BasicX and PICBasic should have been scrapped as hopelessly obsolete years ago and yet these Embedded systems technologies outsell Embedded Java by many orders of magnitude and their markets continue to increase in size. JBASIC simply acknowledges this fact, provides a way for this huge group of developers to get up and running on Embedded Java based systems as painlessly as possible and then does them a further service by providing the easiest path possible for them to transition to Object Oriented technologies if they are interested. > I can see the value in some > scripting capability as a form of glue logic if there is a tight integration > with the Embedlet container and a fundamental OO syntax such as exists in > Java Script [snip] JBASIC will be able to use the 'reference' data type and so it will be able to invoke methods on Java objects. Parts of it should look similar to Java Script. > Did you look at Rhino or Jython? and Holger adds to this >BTW: what about the good old IBM bsf BeanScriptingFrameWork? Yeah, I looked closely at all three but 90%+ of average Embedded developers have not even heard of these languages and they don't have the background needed to learn them efficiently. I am forced to keep coming back to the overall goal which is to find a lucrative market for Embedded Java ASAP. Making an interpreted language available that makes using Embedded Java-based devices significantly easier to use for the greatest number of people is just another aspect of this effort and, for better or for worse, no language is in a better position to do this than BASIC. Anyway, if JBASIC falls flat on its face, switching to another interpreted language will only take around 2 months of extra work and so this is the fallback position... Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Holger B. - b. <ho...@bi...> - 2003-10-13 19:46:18
|
IMVHO, the if-else construct is a good way to see the diff: it should
be a object state whitch is able to be on or off.
The usage of a string which contains the _word_ "on" or "off" is a good
example for basic.
BTW: what about the good old IBM bsf BeanScriptingFrameWork ?
bax
Am Montag, 13.10.03 um 21:32 Uhr schrieb Christopher Smith:
> Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE]
> _______________________________________________
>
> Ted,
>
> Hmmm, reality is always interfering with the pure pursuit of
> happiness. I
> can see that we will be unable to rescue you from the dark side.
>
> I appreciate the difficulty in teaching an advanced language such as
> Java
> with its numerous OOP assumptions, but I also have reservations
> regarding
> the presentation of a Basic interpreter on top of a byte code
> interpreter as
> a viable contender in the embedded market. I can see the value in some
> scripting capability as a form of glue logic if there is a tight
> integration
> with the Embedlet container and a fundamental OO syntax such as exists
> in
> Java Script eg:
>
> function void startMachine() {
>
> container = context.getContainer();
> startSwitch = container.getComponent("StartSwitch");
> if (startSwitch.getBoolean()) {
> state = "on";
> } else {
> state = "off";
> }
> println("Start switch is " + state);
> }
>
> Did you look at Rhino or Jython?
>
> Chris
>
> Christopher Smith
> OopScope, LLC.
> www.oopscope.com
> cs...@oo...
> 805-276-0598
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: emb...@li...
>> [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of
>> Ted
>> Kosan
>> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:10 AM
>> To: emb...@li...
>> Subject: RE: [Embedlets-dev] JBASIC
>>
>>
>> Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE]
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Chris wrote:
>>
>>> The idea is repugnant! A step back from the Renaissance to the
>> dark ages!
>>> You are painting over a Picasso with Elvis felt art! Condemning your
>>> students to a life long struggle with a language impediment.
>>
>> Chris, for the most part I agree with you!
>>
>> But... here is how I eventually made the decision to go with
>> JBasic. Earlier
>> this summer I finally figured out that neither BeanShell nor
>> Jython was going
>> to fit on a TStik and that, if an easy-to-use interpreter was
>> going to be made
>> available for EmbeddedJava devices, I was going to have to
>> develop it myself.
>>
>> After I made the decision to build an interpreter, I drove myself
>> absolutely
>> nuts trying to decide which language to go with. During this
>> process I was
>> forced to keep coming back to the fact that most of the programmers
>> in the
>> world today started off on some form of BASIC (like Apple BASIC,
>> Commodore 64
>> and VIC 20 BASIC, TRS-80 BASIC, Microsoft BASIC, GW-BASIC, Timex
>> Sinclair
>> BASIC, QBASIC and most recently VisualBasic).
>>
>> Also, it is hard to escape from the fact that even today, the most
>> popular
>> Embedded systems for beginners are products like BASIC Stamp, BASICX,
>> etc.
>>
>> Beyond this, during all of the "Intro to programming" classes I
>> have taught
>> during the past 13 years, BASIC (QBASIC specifically) was absolutely
>> the
>> hands-down easiest language to teach to beginners. The 2 years
>> that I tried to
>> teach Java to non-programming beginners were very rough and it felt
>> like a
>> forced march the whole way through.
>>
>> So, I finally was forced to simply go with my instincts and
>> experience and
>> (after the required 'unbelievable amount of hard work'), JBasic
>> was the result.
>> As the screen shot shows, I have also made an IDE for it (which
>> is based on
>> jEdit) and I must say that teaching programming to beginners is
>> *fun* again!
>>
>> After experiencing how easy it is to teach BASIC to beginning
>> programmers
>> again, I am extremely confident that I made the right choice.
>>
>> And, for the first time since 1999, I feel deep down that we
>> finally have a way
>> to market EmbeddedJava to the Embedded systems masses. It was such a
>> good
>> feeling to be able to put a program on a TStik last week without
>> having to use
>> javac and TiniConverter and now I can see a clear path for how we
>> can approach
>> the huge BASICStamp, BASICX and PICBasic communities with
>> embedded systems that
>> they can jack right into the net and program in an easy manner.
>>
>>
>>
>>> At least you could have done it in JavaScript, a (small) step
>> in the right
>>> direction.
>>
>> Actually, I think that a 'huge step right to the destination' is
>> to follow up
>> JBasic with a pure Java interpreter. My thought is that a
>> significant number
>> of developers are going to quickly exhaust JBasic's capabilities
>> and then the
>> most logical step for them will be to learn Java.
>>
>> JBasic will already have some Java syntax in it and so a move to
>> a Java based
>> version of the interpreter should represent a natural
>> progression. They will
>> still be shielded from tools like TiniConverter, JemBuilder and
>> Charade which
>> will allow them to focus on learning what Object Oriented
>> programming is all
>> about.
>>
>> Finally, the hard-core developers will certainly want to go on to
>> learn
>> full-blown Java and by that time they should be ready for it.
>>
>> The gentle on-ramp that I envisioned for easing Embedded developers
>> into
>> Embedded Java will finally materialize and the IT support
>> personel that I was
>> personally wanting to target the OutPost/Graphic Wiring Tool
>> combination at
>> will be able to get started right now with OutPost/JBasic.
>>
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
>> http://shopping.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program.
>> SourceForge.net hosts over 70,000 Open Source Projects.
>> See the people who have HELPED US provide better services:
>> Click here: http://sourceforge.net/supporters.php
>> _______________________________________________
>> Embedlets-developer mailing list
>> Emb...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer
>>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program.
> SourceForge.net hosts over 70,000 Open Source Projects.
> See the people who have HELPED US provide better services:
> Click here: http://sourceforge.net/supporters.php
> _______________________________________________
> Embedlets-developer mailing list
> Emb...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer
>
|
|
From: Christopher S. <cs...@oo...> - 2003-10-13 19:31:40
|
Ted,
Hmmm, reality is always interfering with the pure pursuit of happiness. I
can see that we will be unable to rescue you from the dark side.
I appreciate the difficulty in teaching an advanced language such as Java
with its numerous OOP assumptions, but I also have reservations regarding
the presentation of a Basic interpreter on top of a byte code interpreter as
a viable contender in the embedded market. I can see the value in some
scripting capability as a form of glue logic if there is a tight integration
with the Embedlet container and a fundamental OO syntax such as exists in
Java Script eg:
function void startMachine() {
container = context.getContainer();
startSwitch = container.getComponent("StartSwitch");
if (startSwitch.getBoolean()) {
state = "on";
} else {
state = "off";
}
println("Start switch is " + state);
}
Did you look at Rhino or Jython?
Chris
Christopher Smith
OopScope, LLC.
www.oopscope.com
cs...@oo...
805-276-0598
> -----Original Message-----
> From: emb...@li...
> [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted
> Kosan
> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:10 AM
> To: emb...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Embedlets-dev] JBASIC
>
>
> Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE]
> _______________________________________________
>
> Chris wrote:
>
> > The idea is repugnant! A step back from the Renaissance to the
> dark ages!
> > You are painting over a Picasso with Elvis felt art! Condemning your
> > students to a life long struggle with a language impediment.
>
> Chris, for the most part I agree with you!
>
> But... here is how I eventually made the decision to go with
> JBasic. Earlier
> this summer I finally figured out that neither BeanShell nor
> Jython was going
> to fit on a TStik and that, if an easy-to-use interpreter was
> going to be made
> available for EmbeddedJava devices, I was going to have to
> develop it myself.
>
> After I made the decision to build an interpreter, I drove myself
> absolutely
> nuts trying to decide which language to go with. During this
> process I was
> forced to keep coming back to the fact that most of the programmers in the
> world today started off on some form of BASIC (like Apple BASIC,
> Commodore 64
> and VIC 20 BASIC, TRS-80 BASIC, Microsoft BASIC, GW-BASIC, Timex Sinclair
> BASIC, QBASIC and most recently VisualBasic).
>
> Also, it is hard to escape from the fact that even today, the most popular
> Embedded systems for beginners are products like BASIC Stamp, BASICX, etc.
>
> Beyond this, during all of the "Intro to programming" classes I
> have taught
> during the past 13 years, BASIC (QBASIC specifically) was absolutely the
> hands-down easiest language to teach to beginners. The 2 years
> that I tried to
> teach Java to non-programming beginners were very rough and it felt like a
> forced march the whole way through.
>
> So, I finally was forced to simply go with my instincts and experience and
> (after the required 'unbelievable amount of hard work'), JBasic
> was the result.
> As the screen shot shows, I have also made an IDE for it (which
> is based on
> jEdit) and I must say that teaching programming to beginners is
> *fun* again!
>
> After experiencing how easy it is to teach BASIC to beginning programmers
> again, I am extremely confident that I made the right choice.
>
> And, for the first time since 1999, I feel deep down that we
> finally have a way
> to market EmbeddedJava to the Embedded systems masses. It was such a good
> feeling to be able to put a program on a TStik last week without
> having to use
> javac and TiniConverter and now I can see a clear path for how we
> can approach
> the huge BASICStamp, BASICX and PICBasic communities with
> embedded systems that
> they can jack right into the net and program in an easy manner.
>
>
>
> > At least you could have done it in JavaScript, a (small) step
> in the right
> > direction.
>
> Actually, I think that a 'huge step right to the destination' is
> to follow up
> JBasic with a pure Java interpreter. My thought is that a
> significant number
> of developers are going to quickly exhaust JBasic's capabilities
> and then the
> most logical step for them will be to learn Java.
>
> JBasic will already have some Java syntax in it and so a move to
> a Java based
> version of the interpreter should represent a natural
> progression. They will
> still be shielded from tools like TiniConverter, JemBuilder and
> Charade which
> will allow them to focus on learning what Object Oriented
> programming is all
> about.
>
> Finally, the hard-core developers will certainly want to go on to learn
> full-blown Java and by that time they should be ready for it.
>
> The gentle on-ramp that I envisioned for easing Embedded developers into
> Embedded Java will finally materialize and the IT support
> personel that I was
> personally wanting to target the OutPost/Graphic Wiring Tool
> combination at
> will be able to get started right now with OutPost/JBasic.
>
>
> Ted
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program.
> SourceForge.net hosts over 70,000 Open Source Projects.
> See the people who have HELPED US provide better services:
> Click here: http://sourceforge.net/supporters.php
> _______________________________________________
> Embedlets-developer mailing list
> Emb...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer
>
|
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-11 08:25:24
|
Nicola wrote: > In any case, I'm now going to be the head of the Apache Incubator > (incubator.apache.org) which is now really ramping up, with new helpers > and rules [snip] Well, congratulations! I did noticed that the Incubator site seemed to be slowly filling up with projects over the past 6 months or so. > I was wondering about the idea of moving to Apache for development and > if it was still something that you guys were thinking about. In case, > I'd be happy to help and see what can be done. When this idea first came up it seemed like an interesting possibility but the timing did not 'feel right' yet. We did not have a functional code base, TStik and uVM were months away from being released and, at least from my perspective, the IT support personnel that I envisioned as being the main people responsible for deploying and maintaining Outposts did not have an easy way to configure them. Since that time, however, a functional code base has been released, TStik and uVM are in production and JBasic is close to being available which will allow IT support personnel to configure and maintain Outposts. As I look at the current state of Embedlets, the main thing that I think we are missing now are clients to drive its further development. Embedlets have worked since Spring but without clients to use them they have mostly been gathering dust (aside from the Persistence API that Chris has been integrating into the code base). At one point in time the JBoss community was mentioned as a possible home for Embedlets and, since Outpost is primarily designed to communicate with J2EE backend systems, this was one point that JBoss had over Apache. But now that Apache has begun development on the Geronimo J2EE container, this issue has been resolved. In light of the above, I personally think that Embedlets are ready to move on to start serving a client base and, after reflecting on this issue for a while, I can not think of a more appropriate or symbiotic community for Embedlets to belong to and serve than the Apache community. And the Apache Incubator seems like it provides all of the support needed to accommodate a reasonably easy transition should we choose to pursue this. I would be open to having Nicola go ahead and officially approach the Apache community and ask them what they think about the idea of bringing the Embedlets project into the Apache Foundation. What do other people think? Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-11 07:10:11
|
Chris wrote: > The idea is repugnant! A step back from the Renaissance to the dark ages! > You are painting over a Picasso with Elvis felt art! Condemning your > students to a life long struggle with a language impediment. Chris, for the most part I agree with you! But... here is how I eventually made the decision to go with JBasic. Earlier this summer I finally figured out that neither BeanShell nor Jython was going to fit on a TStik and that, if an easy-to-use interpreter was going to be made available for EmbeddedJava devices, I was going to have to develop it myself. After I made the decision to build an interpreter, I drove myself absolutely nuts trying to decide which language to go with. During this process I was forced to keep coming back to the fact that most of the programmers in the world today started off on some form of BASIC (like Apple BASIC, Commodore 64 and VIC 20 BASIC, TRS-80 BASIC, Microsoft BASIC, GW-BASIC, Timex Sinclair BASIC, QBASIC and most recently VisualBasic). Also, it is hard to escape from the fact that even today, the most popular Embedded systems for beginners are products like BASIC Stamp, BASICX, etc. Beyond this, during all of the "Intro to programming" classes I have taught during the past 13 years, BASIC (QBASIC specifically) was absolutely the hands-down easiest language to teach to beginners. The 2 years that I tried to teach Java to non-programming beginners were very rough and it felt like a forced march the whole way through. So, I finally was forced to simply go with my instincts and experience and (after the required 'unbelievable amount of hard work'), JBasic was the result. As the screen shot shows, I have also made an IDE for it (which is based on jEdit) and I must say that teaching programming to beginners is *fun* again! After experiencing how easy it is to teach BASIC to beginning programmers again, I am extremely confident that I made the right choice. And, for the first time since 1999, I feel deep down that we finally have a way to market EmbeddedJava to the Embedded systems masses. It was such a good feeling to be able to put a program on a TStik last week without having to use javac and TiniConverter and now I can see a clear path for how we can approach the huge BASICStamp, BASICX and PICBasic communities with embedded systems that they can jack right into the net and program in an easy manner. > At least you could have done it in JavaScript, a (small) step in the right > direction. Actually, I think that a 'huge step right to the destination' is to follow up JBasic with a pure Java interpreter. My thought is that a significant number of developers are going to quickly exhaust JBasic's capabilities and then the most logical step for them will be to learn Java. JBasic will already have some Java syntax in it and so a move to a Java based version of the interpreter should represent a natural progression. They will still be shielded from tools like TiniConverter, JemBuilder and Charade which will allow them to focus on learning what Object Oriented programming is all about. Finally, the hard-core developers will certainly want to go on to learn full-blown Java and by that time they should be ready for it. The gentle on-ramp that I envisioned for easing Embedded developers into Embedded Java will finally materialize and the IT support personel that I was personally wanting to target the OutPost/Graphic Wiring Tool combination at will be able to get started right now with OutPost/JBasic. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-11 06:05:25
|
Kelly wrote: > Dear Ted - It will be interesting to see how you work this out in BNF for > jbasic.jj: > > GotoStatement ::= <GOTO> ( Name | <INTEGER_LITERAL> ) > > Thats funny (considering its Java)! Well, the BNF document that was linked to still has the full BNF Grammer for VisualBasic. I will not be supporting the more 'crufty' BASIC constructs like GOTO, line numbers, While/Wend, etc. but until it is decided exactly what to leave in and what to take out I am just leaving all of it in because it does not hurt anything. The Grammer also does not show any of the Java language additions yet but I am sure that things like Object references, the ++ and -- operators and the // and /* */ comments will be brought over. The data types will also be the standard Java data types which should make this part of the language fairly clean. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Christopher S. <cs...@oo...> - 2003-10-10 16:01:48
|
Ted, The idea is repugnant! A step back from the Renaissance to the dark ages! You are painting over a Picasso with Elvis felt art! Condemning your students to a life long struggle with a language impediment. At least you could have done it in JavaScript, a (small) step in the right direction. Chris :) > > Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] > _______________________________________________ > > Dear Ted - It will be interesting to see how you work this out in BNF for > jbasic.jj: > > GotoStatement ::= <GOTO> ( Name | <INTEGER_LITERAL> ) > > Thats funny (considering it Java)! > > Best regards, Kelly Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: emb...@li... > [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted > Kosan > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 2:13 PM > To: emb...@li... > Subject: [Embedlets-dev] Quiet time is over > > > Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] > _______________________________________________ > > Things have been quiet in the Embedlets project for a number of months but > this > is because a number of us have been working extremely hard during > this time > turning some of the ideas that have been discussed on this list into code > and > products. > > Bruce has gotten TStik out the door, Chris has been integrating a > persistence > mechanism into the Embedlets code base, James has been having some great > discussions with MicroChip about uVM (along with moving Heaven > and Earth to > get > the uVM 1.0.7 release finished) and I have been working on the following: > > > 1) More than half of the free online Embedded Java Beginner's course > materials > have been completed and the complete course including a uVM track > should be > done by sometime in December. Here is a link to what is up right now: > > http://tkosan.javadevices.org/ssu/classes/etec201/index.html > > The site is branded as an 'Intro to OOP 1' course right now because I am > beta > testing the materials in a University course that I am teaching > but it will > be > re-branded as soon as the beta test period is completed. > > > > 2) The Global Light Blinker project continues to move forward > (http://globallightblinker.jxta.org/), the first generation > controller boxes > are currently being assembled, the second generation controller boxes are > scheduled to be powered by uVMs and the third generation controller boxes > are > scheduled to be controlled by TStiks. > > > > 3) The uVM powered CNC plasma machine that I talked about this summer is > coming > along slow but sure and I plan on using a TStik and the new > uVM-452 devices > for > it (http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/plasma_frame.jpg). > > > > 4) And here is an announcement that I have been keeping quiet about until > now. > Since about mid summer I have been working very hard to bring a version of > BASIC to the world of Embedded Java (called JBasic) and as of now the > environment is mostly functional and is going through alpha > testing (JavaCC > and > JJTree rock!). > > The goal of JBasic is to provide an easy way for beginners get up and > running > on any Embedded Java device (like TINI, TSTIK, JStamp, JStik, etc. and > hopefully uVM) *without needing to use tools like TiniConverter, Charade, > JemBuilder or uvmp*. > > It is also designed to be a scripting language for Embedlets and > it provides > a > viable solution to the 'Embedlet configuration by non-Java > programmers' goal > that I am still shooting for with the Graphical Wiring tool. The > nice thing > about JBasic is that it works now and will be ready to beta test > sometime in > December. > > > Here is a screen shot of the JBasicBulder IDE: > > http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/JBasicBuilder.jpg > > > and here is JBasic's BNF specification (which uses Paul Cager's > VB BNF spec > as > a starting point): > > http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/jbasicbnf.html > > > JBasic was tested on a TStik last week and it ran well. Testing on > JStamp/JStik should occur within a few weeks and as soon as I > receive a 452 > based uVM device I am going to try to shoe-horn the interpreter into one. > > > > > Anyway, Chris and I have been discussing the integration of the Embedlet > Configuration and Persistance mechanisms a bit off list and > within a day or > two > I will copy this information to the list so that everyone can > participate in > the discussion. > > > It was a quiet summer but it looks like things are going to begin > heating up > again very soon. > > I predict that the Winter of 2003-2004 will finally see the arrival of the > Embedded Java inflection point that we have all been working so hard to > achieve. > > > Ted > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. > SourceForge.net hosts over 70,000 Open Source Projects. > See the people who have HELPED US provide better services: > Click here: http://sourceforge.net/supporters.php > _______________________________________________ > Embedlets-developer mailing list > Emb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. > SourceForge.net hosts over 70,000 Open Source Projects. > See the people who have HELPED US provide better services: > Click here: http://sourceforge.net/supporters.php > _______________________________________________ > Embedlets-developer mailing list > Emb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer > |
.){kind=link}
|
From: Kelly S. <be...@ea...> - 2003-10-10 13:24:35
|
Dear Ted - It will be interesting to see how you work this out in BNF for jbasic.jj: GotoStatement ::= <GOTO> ( Name | <INTEGER_LITERAL> ) Thats funny (considering it Java)! Best regards, Kelly Smith -----Original Message----- From: emb...@li... [mailto:emb...@li...]On Behalf Of Ted Kosan Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 2:13 PM To: emb...@li... Subject: [Embedlets-dev] Quiet time is over Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] _______________________________________________ Things have been quiet in the Embedlets project for a number of months but this is because a number of us have been working extremely hard during this time turning some of the ideas that have been discussed on this list into code and products. Bruce has gotten TStik out the door, Chris has been integrating a persistence mechanism into the Embedlets code base, James has been having some great discussions with MicroChip about uVM (along with moving Heaven and Earth to get the uVM 1.0.7 release finished) and I have been working on the following: 1) More than half of the free online Embedded Java Beginner's course materials have been completed and the complete course including a uVM track should be done by sometime in December. Here is a link to what is up right now: http://tkosan.javadevices.org/ssu/classes/etec201/index.html The site is branded as an 'Intro to OOP 1' course right now because I am beta testing the materials in a University course that I am teaching but it will be re-branded as soon as the beta test period is completed. 2) The Global Light Blinker project continues to move forward (http://globallightblinker.jxta.org/), the first generation controller boxes are currently being assembled, the second generation controller boxes are scheduled to be powered by uVMs and the third generation controller boxes are scheduled to be controlled by TStiks. 3) The uVM powered CNC plasma machine that I talked about this summer is coming along slow but sure and I plan on using a TStik and the new uVM-452 devices for it (http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/plasma_frame.jpg). 4) And here is an announcement that I have been keeping quiet about until now. Since about mid summer I have been working very hard to bring a version of BASIC to the world of Embedded Java (called JBasic) and as of now the environment is mostly functional and is going through alpha testing (JavaCC and JJTree rock!). The goal of JBasic is to provide an easy way for beginners get up and running on any Embedded Java device (like TINI, TSTIK, JStamp, JStik, etc. and hopefully uVM) *without needing to use tools like TiniConverter, Charade, JemBuilder or uvmp*. It is also designed to be a scripting language for Embedlets and it provides a viable solution to the 'Embedlet configuration by non-Java programmers' goal that I am still shooting for with the Graphical Wiring tool. The nice thing about JBasic is that it works now and will be ready to beta test sometime in December. Here is a screen shot of the JBasicBulder IDE: http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/JBasicBuilder.jpg and here is JBasic's BNF specification (which uses Paul Cager's VB BNF spec as a starting point): http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/jbasicbnf.html JBasic was tested on a TStik last week and it ran well. Testing on JStamp/JStik should occur within a few weeks and as soon as I receive a 452 based uVM device I am going to try to shoe-horn the interpreter into one. Anyway, Chris and I have been discussing the integration of the Embedlet Configuration and Persistance mechanisms a bit off list and within a day or two I will copy this information to the list so that everyone can participate in the discussion. It was a quiet summer but it looks like things are going to begin heating up again very soon. I predict that the Winter of 2003-2004 will finally see the arrival of the Embedded Java inflection point that we have all been working so hard to achieve. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. SourceForge.net hosts over 70,000 Open Source Projects. See the people who have HELPED US provide better services: Click here: http://sourceforge.net/supporters.php _______________________________________________ Embedlets-developer mailing list Emb...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-09 21:22:29
|
I almost forgot, Chris Vaniglia (whom I met at JavaOne this past summer) is a member of the Columbus, Ohio (USA) Association of Computing Machinery chapter and they have invited me to speak about Embedlets at their monthly meeting next week. Here is a link to the advertisement: http://www.acm.org/chapters/cocacm/October03.htm This will be my first opportunity to talk about Embedlets publicly and hopefully the talk can be expanded and accepted for presentation at JavaOne next year. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-10-09 21:13:10
|
Things have been quiet in the Embedlets project for a number of months but this is because a number of us have been working extremely hard during this time turning some of the ideas that have been discussed on this list into code and products. Bruce has gotten TStik out the door, Chris has been integrating a persistence mechanism into the Embedlets code base, James has been having some great discussions with MicroChip about uVM (along with moving Heaven and Earth to get the uVM 1.0.7 release finished) and I have been working on the following: 1) More than half of the free online Embedded Java Beginner's course materials have been completed and the complete course including a uVM track should be done by sometime in December. Here is a link to what is up right now: http://tkosan.javadevices.org/ssu/classes/etec201/index.html The site is branded as an 'Intro to OOP 1' course right now because I am beta testing the materials in a University course that I am teaching but it will be re-branded as soon as the beta test period is completed. 2) The Global Light Blinker project continues to move forward (http://globallightblinker.jxta.org/), the first generation controller boxes are currently being assembled, the second generation controller boxes are scheduled to be powered by uVMs and the third generation controller boxes are scheduled to be controlled by TStiks. 3) The uVM powered CNC plasma machine that I talked about this summer is coming along slow but sure and I plan on using a TStik and the new uVM-452 devices for it (http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/plasma_frame.jpg). 4) And here is an announcement that I have been keeping quiet about until now. Since about mid summer I have been working very hard to bring a version of BASIC to the world of Embedded Java (called JBasic) and as of now the environment is mostly functional and is going through alpha testing (JavaCC and JJTree rock!). The goal of JBasic is to provide an easy way for beginners get up and running on any Embedded Java device (like TINI, TSTIK, JStamp, JStik, etc. and hopefully uVM) *without needing to use tools like TiniConverter, Charade, JemBuilder or uvmp*. It is also designed to be a scripting language for Embedlets and it provides a viable solution to the 'Embedlet configuration by non-Java programmers' goal that I am still shooting for with the Graphical Wiring tool. The nice thing about JBasic is that it works now and will be ready to beta test sometime in December. Here is a screen shot of the JBasicBulder IDE: http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/JBasicBuilder.jpg and here is JBasic's BNF specification (which uses Paul Cager's VB BNF spec as a starting point): http://tkosan.javadevices.org/misc/embeddedjava/jbasicbnf.html JBasic was tested on a TStik last week and it ran well. Testing on JStamp/JStik should occur within a few weeks and as soon as I receive a 452 based uVM device I am going to try to shoe-horn the interpreter into one. Anyway, Chris and I have been discussing the integration of the Embedlet Configuration and Persistance mechanisms a bit off list and within a day or two I will copy this information to the list so that everyone can participate in the discussion. It was a quiet summer but it looks like things are going to begin heating up again very soon. I predict that the Winter of 2003-2004 will finally see the arrival of the Embedded Java inflection point that we have all been working so hard to achieve. Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com |
|
From: Andrzej J. T. <an...@ch...> - 2003-09-16 22:28:33
|
I had promised to comment on the PicoContainer idea for Ted. Not much time to get into detail on it, but there is an excellent blog thread on the topic here: http://tinyurl.com/nluc There are many good points raised that would make Pico insufficient for Embedlet purposes. Andrzej Jan Taramina Chaeron Corporation: Enterprise System Solutions http://www.chaeron.com |
|
From: Christopher S. <cs...@oo...> - 2003-08-27 05:21:48
|
Ok, I will give it a shot. Chris > > Topic tags:[ARCH][JAPL][WIRING][DOCS][MGMT][STRATEGY][NEWBIE] > _______________________________________________ > > Chris wrote: > > > I ran through the build from embedlets to outpost, using a > fresh checkout > > and corrected all build errors. The build sequence is: [snip] > > Everything built fine! :-) > > > Now what would be nice to have is a short document which explains > what the new > additions are intended to do and how to use them. I am hoping to use the > remoting with the GlobalLightBlinker control boxes and I think that a > high-level theory of operation document would help for getting my > head around > it. > > What do you think? > > Ted > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Embedlets-developer mailing list > Emb...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/embedlets-developer > |
|
From: Ted K. <tk...@ya...> - 2003-08-27 04:52:22
|
Chris wrote: > I ran through the build from embedlets to outpost, using a fresh checkout > and corrected all build errors. The build sequence is: [snip] Everything built fine! :-) Now what would be nice to have is a short document which explains what the new additions are intended to do and how to use them. I am hoping to use the remoting with the GlobalLightBlinker control boxes and I think that a high-level theory of operation document would help for getting my head around it. What do you think? Ted __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com |
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