devil-linux-develop — developer discussions

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] [0.6Beta1] New release, 4 new problems!

[Heiko Z. <he...@zu...>]

Diego Torres wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 07:52:30PM -0400, Heiko Zuerker wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Setting up ROL/F
>>
>>@Thomas this is the newly added ROL/F Patch, can you please investigate 
>>on it?
>>Otherwise I'll have to remove it.
> 
> 
> what is the rol/f patch xactly for? any url?

http://www.peppercon.com/products/rolf.html

Heiko

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] 2.4.22 - soon!

[Heiko Z. <he...@zu...>]

Bruce Smith wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://lwn.net/Articles/46306/
> "Marcelo released a fourth 2.4.22 release candidate to fix "a few 
> annoying bugs;" then put out the real 2.4.22 kernel shortly thereafter.
> The biggest changes to be found in 2.4.22 for most people will be the
> big ACPI, ia64, and AIC7xxx updates and the inclusion of the crypto API,
> but there is a great deal of other work in there as well."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Will the inclusion of crypto API affect us any?  Is that the support 
> for FreeS/WAN so kernel patches are no longer needed for IPSEC?

Yes, but FreeS/WAN needs to support this first.

cya
   Heiko

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] back again :)

[Heiko Z. <he...@zu...>]

Diego Torres wrote:
> 
> At last, the sf stuff have configured a whitelist, to i'm now able to post to all the sf mailing lists.
> 
> So i'm here again, wishing to help in the development of dl :)

WOOHOOO

Welcome back !

cya
   Heiko

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] Memory requirements.

[Heiko Z. <he...@zu...>]

Bruce Smith wrote:
> I had a weird thing this morning while running save-config, where it
> aborted in a very strange way (in VMware).  To make a long story short,
> after a lot of traces, manual "tar" commands, and head beating, I
> figured out it was because my VMware was set to 16MB of memory.
> 
> This is a fresh boot with a blank floppy.  It seems like there is enough
> memory in 16MB to run tar, but when the "j" option kicks in, bzip2 loads
> and aborts tar.
> 
> I increased my memory in VMware to 32MB and save-config runs fine there
> (except for the "diff" part which I don't care about).
> 
> We might want NOT want to advertise DL will run in 16MB of memory, if
> people cannot save their configuration on that size machine.  The other
> option would be to use some busybox commands in save-config instead of
> the standard ones ... (or not :)

Damned. Of course that was a function I didn't test.
It's worth a try to use just for this function the busybox tar.
Can you take care of it? I have too many other things. I documented it 
on SF.

cya
   Heiko

[Devil-linux-develop] [ devil-linux-Bugs-795704 ] save-config doesn't work with 16 MB

[SourceForge.net <no...@so...>]

Bugs item #795704, was opened at 2003-08-26 19:13
Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=410643&aid=795704&group_id=34096

Category: Base System
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Heiko Zuerker (smiley73)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: save-config doesn't work with 16 MB

Initial Comment:
Bruce Smith wrote:

> I had a weird thing this morning while running

save-config, where it

> aborted in a very strange way (in VMware).  To make a

long story short,

> after a lot of traces, manual "tar" commands, and

head beating, I

> figured out it was because my VMware was set to 16MB

of memory.

> 

> This is a fresh boot with a blank floppy.  It seems

like there is enough

> memory in 16MB to run tar, but when the "j" option

kicks in, bzip2 loads

> and aborts tar.

> 

> I increased my memory in VMware to 32MB and

save-config runs fine there

> (except for the "diff" part which I don't care about).

> 

> We might want NOT want to advertise DL will run in

16MB of memory, if

> people cannot save their configuration on that size

machine.  The other

> option would be to use some busybox commands in

save-config instead of

> the standard ones ... (or not :)



Damned. Of course that was a function I didn't test.

It's worth a try to use just for this function the

busybox tar.

Can you take care of it? I have too many other things.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=410643&aid=795704&group_id=34096

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] [0.6Beta1] New release, 4 new problems!

[Diego T. <dt...@co...>]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 07:52:30PM -0400, Heiko Zuerker wrote:

> >Setting up ROL/F
> @Thomas this is the newly added ROL/F Patch, can you please investigate 
> on it?
> Otherwise I'll have to remove it.

what is the rol/f patch xactly for? any url?

-- rapid2k1
-- gnupg keyfingerprint -- 48AF 5BF9 8F54 2966 64CC  2327 7CD0 DD91 B09D 5799
-- Use of a keyboard or mouse may be linked to serious injuries or disorders.  
Diego Torres - dt...@co... - Madrid / España

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] [0.6Beta1] And a few more minor issues...

[Heiko Z. <he...@zu...>]

Thanks for the bug report !

Dean Nedelman wrote:
> A couple of things:
> 
> o lscpi should use /usr/share/pci.ids by default (according to the man
> page).  Therefore, these two commands should be identical (according to the
> man page): "lscpi" and "lscpi -f /usr/share/pci.ids".  However, they are
> not - the first command fails to use the /usr/share/pci.ids file and
> translate the numeric information.

Documented as bug

> o Shutdown is still not powering off the computer.  I'll take a look at this
> later today to see if RedHat has anything special in their shutdown
> procedures to actually power off the machine.  I am pretty sure that this
> machine used to power off when I used RedHat.

Documented as bug

cya
   Heiko

[Devil-linux-develop] [ devil-linux-Bugs-795700 ] poweroff not working

[SourceForge.net <no...@so...>]

Bugs item #795700, was opened at 2003-08-26 18:59
Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=410643&aid=795700&group_id=34096

Category: Base System
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Heiko Zuerker (smiley73)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: poweroff not working

Initial Comment:
reported by Dean Nedelman



o Shutdown is still not powering off the computer. 

I'll take a look at this

later today to see if RedHat has anything special in

their shutdown

procedures to actually power off the machine.  I am

pretty sure that this

machine used to power off when I used RedHat.





----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can respond by visiting: 
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[Devil-linux-develop] [ devil-linux-Bugs-795699 ] lspci problems with /usr/share/pci.ids

[SourceForge.net <no...@so...>]

Bugs item #795699, was opened at 2003-08-26 18:58
Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=410643&aid=795699&group_id=34096

Category: Package
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Heiko Zuerker (smiley73)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: lspci problems with /usr/share/pci.ids

Initial Comment:
o lscpi should use /usr/share/pci.ids by default

(according to the man

page).  Therefore, these two commands should be

identical (according to the

man page): "lscpi" and "lscpi -f /usr/share/pci.ids". 

However, they are

not - the first command fails to use the

/usr/share/pci.ids file and

translate the numeric information.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=410643&aid=795699&group_id=34096

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] [0.6Beta1] New release, 4 new problems!

[Heiko Z. <he...@zu...>]

Dean Nedelman wrote:
> [Using the 08-23-i586-SMP release...]
> 
> NOTE:  My ISP's mail system is -way- behind schedule (and in fact has been
> down all day).  So, if these problems have been reported before, except my
> apologies.
> 
> --- Problem 1 ----
> Unpacking Configuration
> FAT: bogus logical sector size 0
> VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev 02:00.
> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/fd0,
>     or too many mounted file systems
> Journalled Block Device driver loaded
> ext3: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/fd0,
>     or too many mounted file systems
> Unpacking /var
> 
> NOTE: I am using ext2 on my floppy, and had no errors previously for the
> betas. In fact, I had switched to ext from FAT so as to no longer get the
> error about being unable to find an ext2 file system on the floppy! (It used
> to look for ext2 first).

That bug is still open: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=759801&group_id=34096&atid=410643
I agree that it is pretty anoying, I don't have a solution yet.

> --- Problem 2 ----
> still getting a grsec error:
> grsec: attempted resource overstep by requesting 92786688 for RLIMIT_STACK
> against limit 8388608 by (pidof:385) UID(0) EUID(0), parent (S05network:373)
> UID(0) EUID(0)
> 
> I -believe- this is related to my dhcpcd.exe script - which uses pidof.

That is really strange.
Can you try it with a "clean" setup? I mean empty floppy and configuring 
the stuff via the setup program.
How much RAM do you have in this machine?

> --- Problem 3 ---
> get the following: (Note: The ethx: Setting... message is standard,
> everything else is NEW!)
> 
> eth0: Setting 100mbps full-duplex based on auto-negotiated partner ability
> 41e1.
> Setting up ROL/F
> Setting up ROL/F
> Setting up ROL/F
> i8253 count too high! resetting..
> Setting up ROL/F
> i8253 count too high! resetting...
> 
> and also:
> 
> eth1: Setting 100mbps full duplex based on auto-negotiated partner ability
> 45e1.
> Setting up ROLF/F
> Setting up ROLF/F
> Setting up ROLF/F
> Setting up ROLF/F
> 
> i8253 count too high! resetting...

SHIT !
@Thomas this is the newly added ROL/F Patch, can you please investigate 
on it?
Otherwise I'll have to remove it.

> --- Comment ---
> o Why are we still running ldconfig and updating module dependencies? I
> thought it was agreed that we would drop those.
> 
> o I See that we have (again) moved a key binary - echo (from /bin/echo to
> /usr/bin/echo).  And before we get into another discussion about why I have
> hardcoded addresses for key executables in my firewall scripts: I suppose it
> is for the same reason that Bruce uses them in -his- firewall scripts!

That's the new coreutils package,
I modified the package so that everything is installed in /bin. It's the 
"core" anyway.
I will look more into problems which could come up with the new package.

cya
   Heiko

[Devil-linux-develop] [ devil-linux-Bugs-795695 ] rol/f kernel patch causing problems

[SourceForge.net <no...@so...>]

Bugs item #795695, was opened at 2003-08-26 18:46
Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=410643&aid=795695&group_id=34096

Category: Base System
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 7
Submitted By: Heiko Zuerker (smiley73)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: rol/f kernel patch causing problems

Initial Comment:
reported by Dean Nedelman



> --- Problem 3 ---

> get the following: (Note: The ethx: Setting...

message is standard,

> everything else is NEW!)

> 

> eth0: Setting 100mbps full-duplex based on

auto-negotiated partner ability

> 41e1.

> Setting up ROL/F

> Setting up ROL/F

> Setting up ROL/F

> i8253 count too high! resetting..

> Setting up ROL/F

> i8253 count too high! resetting...

> 

> and also:

> 

> eth1: Setting 100mbps full duplex based on

auto-negotiated partner ability

> 45e1.

> Setting up ROLF/F

> Setting up ROLF/F

> Setting up ROLF/F

> Setting up ROLF/F

> 

> i8253 count too high! resetting...



SHIT !

@Thomas this is the newly added ROL/F Patch, can you

please investigate on it?

Otherwise I'll have to remove it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=410643&aid=795695&group_id=34096

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] DL completely contained on CD?

[Heiko Z. <he...@zu...>]

Hey,

Bruce Smith wrote:
> I came up with the brilliant idea the other day, and would like some
> input.  (go ahead and tell me if it's a dumb idea, I don't care! :)
> 
> I might have an application to put a DL router/firewall internally in
> our company to firewall off a department we don't trust.  The problem is
> this PC cannot be in a secure location (untrusted employees have access)
> 
> I don't really want anyone taking the floppy or USB stick out of the PC,
> mucking with it, and replacing it.  So what if the etc.tar.bz2 file was
> also on the CDROM?  People cannot eject the CD from a running DL PC, and
> if they shutdown the DL PC to remove the CD, I would know about it from
> my opennms monitoring software.
> 
> It would be easy to hack the linuxrc startup script, and say if
> /cdrom/config/etc-static.tar.gz2 exists, then completely ignore the
> floppy and USB devices, and ONLY untar the static etc file from CD.

I like this idea, too.
It will work only with IDE CD-ROMs .
I would do it this way: check if conventional config media is available, 
if not, check if we find a IDE CD-ROM with the config on it, if not, 
*BEEP* BEEP* BEEP* Please insert blablabla

> How hard would it be to write a script that would read a DL CD (or ISO),
> replace one file on it, and write a new ISO image?  This script would
> need to run in a normal Linux distribution (Redhat/SuSE/...), not from
> the chroot development environment.  

I don't think that will be too hard, we (actually you) just need to play 
around with the mkisofs/cdrecord tools. You also need to define a 
minimum version of the tool.

cya
   Heiko

[Devil-linux-develop] back again :)

[Diego T. <dt...@co...>]

At last, the sf stuff have configured a whitelist, to i'm now able to post to all the sf mailing lists.

So i'm here again, wishing to help in the development of dl :)

-- rapid2k1
-- gnupg keyfingerprint -- 48AF 5BF9 8F54 2966 64CC  2327 7CD0 DD91 B09D 5799
-- Use of a keyboard or mouse may be linked to serious injuries or disorders.  
Diego Torres - dt...@co... - Madrid / España

[Devil-linux-develop] [fmII] man-pages 1.60 released (Default branch)

[<no...@fr...>]

This email is to inform you about the release of version '1.60' of
'man-pages' through freshmeat.net. All URLs and other useful information
can be found at

    http://freshmeat.net/projects/man-pages/

The changes in this release are as follows:
Several updates on POSIX defines were made, and posixoptions(7) was
added. statvfs(2), clock_getres(3) and friends, and operator(7) were
added. statfs(2), fdatasync(2), getlogin(3), posix_memalign(3),
sysconf(3), and host.conf(5) were updated.  

Project description:
The manpages package contains a large collection of man pages for
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[Devil-linux-develop] Memory requirements.

[Bruce S. <br...@ar...>]

I had a weird thing this morning while running save-config, where it
aborted in a very strange way (in VMware).  To make a long story short,
after a lot of traces, manual "tar" commands, and head beating, I
figured out it was because my VMware was set to 16MB of memory.

This is a fresh boot with a blank floppy.  It seems like there is enough
memory in 16MB to run tar, but when the "j" option kicks in, bzip2 loads
and aborts tar.

I increased my memory in VMware to 32MB and save-config runs fine there
(except for the "diff" part which I don't care about).

We might want NOT want to advertise DL will run in 16MB of memory, if
people cannot save their configuration on that size machine.  The other
option would be to use some busybox commands in save-config instead of
the standard ones ... (or not :)

--------------------------------------------
Bruce Smith                br...@ar...
System Administrator / Network Administrator
Armstrong International, Inc.
Three Rivers, Michigan  49093  USA
http://www.armstrong-intl.com/
--------------------------------------------

[Devil-linux-develop] [0.6Beta1] And a few more minor issues...

[Dean N. <di...@ti...>]

A couple of things:

o lscpi should use /usr/share/pci.ids by default (according to the man
page).  Therefore, these two commands should be identical (according to the
man page): "lscpi" and "lscpi -f /usr/share/pci.ids".  However, they are
not - the first command fails to use the /usr/share/pci.ids file and
translate the numeric information.

o Shutdown is still not powering off the computer.  I'll take a look at this
later today to see if RedHat has anything special in their shutdown
procedures to actually power off the machine.  I am pretty sure that this
machine used to power off when I used RedHat.

Oh, a quick check of the i8253 errors that I am seeing proved to be very
interesting.  It is a bug - but people are not sure where (buggy chip, buggy
driver, etc.)  However, what amuses me is that the i8253 is a PCMCIA chip -
and I don't have PCMCIA on my machine!

Dean Nedelman
TimeLord Consulting

[Devil-linux-develop] var.tar.bz2 - revisited.

[Bruce S. <bw...@ar...>]

Back when I saw Heiko created another file:  /cdrom/config/var.tar.bz2 
I "ass-umed" that we were going to tar up /var along with /etc, save it
to media, and restore them both upon boot.

But I was wrong.  Why would we ever need to save /var?  All it has is
log files, run files, and stuff we don't need to save between reboots.

That's until I decided to create a crontab to modify my iptables 
rules at different times of the day.  :-)   Guess what?  Yup!
The crontabs are kept in:  /var/spool/cron/tabs/
All crontabs are lost after a reboot.

Do I need to create a custom boot script that recreates the crontab from
scratch on every boot?  Or should we save some of the /var files in
etc.tar.bz2 or var.tar.bz2?  Or should we sym-link /var/spool/cron to
/etc so they get saved?  (or none of the above? :)

And, are there other files in /var worth saving? ...

 - BS

[Devil-linux-develop] 2.4.22 - soon!

[Bruce S. <bw...@ar...>]

------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://lwn.net/Articles/46306/
"Marcelo released a fourth 2.4.22 release candidate to fix "a few 
annoying bugs;" then put out the real 2.4.22 kernel shortly thereafter.
The biggest changes to be found in 2.4.22 for most people will be the
big ACPI, ia64, and AIC7xxx updates and the inclusion of the crypto API,
but there is a great deal of other work in there as well."
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Will the inclusion of crypto API affect us any?  Is that the support 
for FreeS/WAN so kernel patches are no longer needed for IPSEC?

 - BS

Re: [Devil-linux-develop] The race is on ...

[Friedrich L. <fl...@fl...>]

Bruce Smith wrote:
> I'm cross posting this message to both the discuss and develop lists as
> a test to see if one list is really working better than the other.
> 
> Which list will this message appear on first?  Place your bets now!  :-)

Sent:
Date: 25 Aug 2003 20:43:48 -0400
==> 26 Aug 2003 00:43:48 UTC

On "Devil-Linux-develop":
Received: from sc8-sf-list2.sourceforge.net (lists.sourceforge.net [66.35.250.206])
	by mail.fl.priv.at (sendmail) with ESMTP id h7Q7oJJb021322
	for <fl...@fl...>; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:50:20 +0200
==> 26 Aug 2003 07:50:20 UTC

On "Devil-Linux-discuss"
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==> 26 Aug 2003 07:54:10 UTC

Greetings
Friedl

[Devil-linux-develop] [fmII] bind 9.2.3rc1 released (Bind9-Beta branch)

[<no...@fr...>]

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The changes in this release are as follows:
This is release candidate for a maintenance release that  contains no
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Project description:
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Re: [Devil-linux-develop] DL completely contained on CD?

[Thomas E. <tho...@bu...>]

Great idea!

-- 
cu thomas

Bruce Smith wrote:
> I came up with the brilliant idea the other day, and would like some
> input.  (go ahead and tell me if it's a dumb idea, I don't care! :)
> 
> I might have an application to put a DL router/firewall internally in
> our company to firewall off a department we don't trust.  The problem is
> this PC cannot be in a secure location (untrusted employees have access)
> 
> I don't really want anyone taking the floppy or USB stick out of the PC,
> mucking with it, and replacing it.  So what if the etc.tar.bz2 file was
> also on the CDROM?  People cannot eject the CD from a running DL PC, and
> if they shutdown the DL PC to remove the CD, I would know about it from
> my opennms monitoring software.
> 
> It would be easy to hack the linuxrc startup script, and say if
> /cdrom/config/etc-static.tar.gz2 exists, then completely ignore the
> floppy and USB devices, and ONLY untar the static etc file from CD.
> 
> How hard would it be to write a script that would read a DL CD (or ISO),
> replace one file on it, and write a new ISO image?  This script would
> need to run in a normal Linux distribution (Redhat/SuSE/...), not from
> the chroot development environment.  
> 
>  - BS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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[Devil-linux-develop] The race is on ...

[Bruce S. <bw...@ar...>]

I'm cross posting this message to both the discuss and develop lists as
a test to see if one list is really working better than the other.

Which list will this message appear on first?  Place your bets now!  :-)

 - BS

[Devil-linux-develop] DL completely contained on CD?

[Bruce S. <bw...@ar...>]

I came up with the brilliant idea the other day, and would like some
input.  (go ahead and tell me if it's a dumb idea, I don't care! :)

I might have an application to put a DL router/firewall internally in
our company to firewall off a department we don't trust.  The problem is
this PC cannot be in a secure location (untrusted employees have access)

I don't really want anyone taking the floppy or USB stick out of the PC,
mucking with it, and replacing it.  So what if the etc.tar.bz2 file was
also on the CDROM?  People cannot eject the CD from a running DL PC, and
if they shutdown the DL PC to remove the CD, I would know about it from
my opennms monitoring software.

It would be easy to hack the linuxrc startup script, and say if
/cdrom/config/etc-static.tar.gz2 exists, then completely ignore the
floppy and USB devices, and ONLY untar the static etc file from CD.

How hard would it be to write a script that would read a DL CD (or ISO),
replace one file on it, and write a new ISO image?  This script would
need to run in a normal Linux distribution (Redhat/SuSE/...), not from
the chroot development environment.  

 - BS

[Devil-linux-develop] [fmII] Squid 2.5 STABLE3 released (Default branch)

[<no...@fr...>]

This email is to inform you about the release of version '2.5 STABLE3' of
'Squid' through freshmeat.net. All URLs and other useful information can
be found at

    http://freshmeat.net/projects/squid/

The changes in this release are as follows:
  

Project description:
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[Devil-linux-develop] [0.6Beta1] New release, 4 new problems!

[Dean N. <di...@ti...>]

[Using the 08-23-i586-SMP release...]

NOTE:  My ISP's mail system is -way- behind schedule (and in fact has been
down all day).  So, if these problems have been reported before, except my
apologies.

--- Problem 1 ----
Unpacking Configuration
FAT: bogus logical sector size 0
VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev 02:00.
mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/fd0,
    or too many mounted file systems
Journalled Block Device driver loaded
ext3: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/fd0,
    or too many mounted file systems
Unpacking /var

NOTE: I am using ext2 on my floppy, and had no errors previously for the
betas. In fact, I had switched to ext from FAT so as to no longer get the
error about being unable to find an ext2 file system on the floppy! (It used
to look for ext2 first).

--- Problem 2 ----
still getting a grsec error:
grsec: attempted resource overstep by requesting 92786688 for RLIMIT_STACK
against limit 8388608 by (pidof:385) UID(0) EUID(0), parent (S05network:373)
UID(0) EUID(0)

I -believe- this is related to my dhcpcd.exe script - which uses pidof.

--- Problem 3 ---
get the following: (Note: The ethx: Setting... message is standard,
everything else is NEW!)

eth0: Setting 100mbps full-duplex based on auto-negotiated partner ability
41e1.
Setting up ROL/F
Setting up ROL/F
Setting up ROL/F
i8253 count too high! resetting..
Setting up ROL/F
i8253 count too high! resetting...

and also:

eth1: Setting 100mbps full duplex based on auto-negotiated partner ability
45e1.
Setting up ROLF/F
Setting up ROLF/F
Setting up ROLF/F
Setting up ROLF/F

i8253 count too high! resetting...

--- Comment ---
o Why are we still running ldconfig and updating module dependencies? I
thought it was agreed that we would drop those.

o I See that we have (again) moved a key binary - echo (from /bin/echo to
/usr/bin/echo).  And before we get into another discussion about why I have
hardcoded addresses for key executables in my firewall scripts: I suppose it
is for the same reason that Bruce uses them in -his- firewall scripts!

Dean Nedelman
TimeLord Consulting