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From: Daniel G. <sp...@ho...> - 2004-01-09 16:02:05
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Perhaps we should just make an eXtensible HTML browser as popular as IE and force web designers to use a standard, syntax-enforcing way of doing websites. A big part of the problem I believe was that different browsers could/could not do things the other one could/could not do. I'm not taling about the transitional effects the IE can use I am thinknig more along the lines of tables, stylesheets etc. that did not always appear correct in both browsers. Daniel >From: Michal Molhanec <mol...@se...> >To: dev...@li... >Subject: [Dev-C++] OT: MS IE >Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:39:54 +0100 > >Maya wrote: >>To work in the IT industry generally means that you have a good >>understanding of OSs and/or Applications. Any smart programmer would avoid >>MSW products; not because they are bad, but because they are not good!! > >but IE 6 wasn't bad browser when was released. it's only not developed for >something like 3 years (except of security bug fixes) so its engine become >obsolete >simply: the problem with MS is not IE 6, the problem is that there is no >IE 7 (or 6.5 at least) > >>The solution to this tremendous problem is based on one word, NETSCAPE. >>;-) > >Netscape is dead. Mozilla Foundation is now the organization behind >Mozilla. > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. >Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering >advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. >Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html >_______________________________________________ >Dev-cpp-users mailing list >Dev...@li... >TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger |
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From: Daniel G. <sp...@ho...> - 2004-01-09 20:07:19
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Can I just say that wasn't me who said that ">> simply: the problem with MS is not IE 6, the problem is that >>there is >> no IE 7 (or 6.5 at least)" >From: Michal Molhanec <mol...@se...> >To: dev...@li... >Subject: Re: [Dev-C++] OT: MS IE >Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:52:30 +0100 > >Arnout Standaert wrote: >>Daniel Glenfield wrote: >> >> simply: the problem with MS is not IE 6, the problem is that there is >> >> no IE 7 (or 6.5 at least) >> >>No, the problem _is_ with IE 6.0 too. It's implementation of web standards >>shows major holes, and require IE-specific workarounds by website >>developers. It can be bloody hard to design a website with HTML and CSS, >>and make it look exactly the same in Mozilla and IE. > >you misunderstand me. Of course that IE 6 has holes in its implementation >of standards in comparsion with today's browsers like Mozilla 1.5 or Opera >7. But on the end of August 2001 (that's 9 months before Mozilla 1.0) when >it was released it was probably the most standard compliant browser (except >of some Mozilla's betas (including NN6) which started to be usable but >still full of glitches). And IE 6 was really significant step towards >standards as it introduced so called "standard mode" to which you can >switch the rendering engine using DOCTYPE. That's really big difference >against IE 5.0/5.5. > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. >Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering >advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. >Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html >_______________________________________________ >Dev-cpp-users mailing list >Dev...@li... >TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband |
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From: Michael C U. <mu...@cb...> - 2004-01-09 21:11:21
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Hi all, This might be a little off topic, but I was hoping maybe someone who uses wxWindows could answer it. Do all of the events within my program have to have a unique numeric ID in the event table? Or is it OK if they have the same numeric ID as long as they are not in the same class? I know that normally class encapsulation would allow me to use the same values and such because those values can only be seen inside objects of that class. However, where i am not sure is that is that the event table itself does not appear to be a class member, although it does take a class as one of its parameters. Thanks for any help anyone can give me. Mike |
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From: Per W. <pw...@ia...> - 2004-01-09 21:35:38
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The event table doesn't add any offset relative to the class, so you should make your event id's unique. /Per W On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Michael C Urban wrote: > Hi all, > > This might be a little off topic, but I was hoping maybe someone who uses > wxWindows could answer it. > > Do all of the events within my program have to have a unique numeric ID in > the event table? Or is it OK if they have the same numeric ID as long as > they are not in the same class? I know that normally class encapsulation > would allow me to use the same values and such because those values can > only be seen inside objects of that class. However, where i am not sure is > that is that the event table itself does not appear to be a class member, > although it does take a class as one of its parameters. > > Thanks for any help anyone can give me. > > Mike > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software. > Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering > advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms. > Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html > _______________________________________________ > Dev-cpp-users mailing list > Dev...@li... > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users > |
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From: Arnout S. <arn...@ci...> - 2004-01-09 17:04:01
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Daniel Glenfield wrote: > Perhaps we should just make an eXtensible HTML browser as popular as > IE and force web designers to use a standard, syntax-enforcing way of > doing websites. It's already been made: Mozilla. It aims to follow web standards as published by the W3C and nothing but the standards. The impossible part is getting as popular as IE, since most users don't bother to replace the browser that came preinstalled on their computer with something better. >> simply: the problem with MS is not IE 6, the problem is that there is >> no IE 7 (or 6.5 at least) No, the problem _is_ with IE 6.0 too. It's implementation of web standards shows major holes, and require IE-specific workarounds by website developers. It can be bloody hard to design a website with HTML and CSS, and make it look exactly the same in Mozilla and IE. Just my 2 cents, Arnout |
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From: <or...@vp...> - 2004-01-09 17:52:14
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Arnout Standaert wrote:
> >> simply: the problem with MS is not IE 6, the problem is that there
> is >> no IE 7 (or 6.5 at least)
>
> No, the problem _is_ with IE 6.0 too. It's implementation of web
> standards shows major holes, and require IE-specific workarounds by
> website developers. It can be bloody hard to design a website with HTML
> and CSS, and make it look exactly the same in Mozilla and IE.
I have to second that, as I HAVE made a webpage to be compatible with
both browser, AND even with Konqueror 2 (KDE 2's browser), and I must
tell you: it WAS hard. The most problems probably were with default
values (CSS), as some used this as default, so it looked good on them,
but the other needed explicit specification, otherwise it screwed up, so...
The MAIN problem is, however, I think is javascript. Just look at ANY
javascript code on the net: they most likely have
if (IE) {...}
if (NS) {...}
...
so that's also a headache.
I think it won't change for some time. Not as long as MS decides to be
as standards-incompatible as possible. Just look at Kerberos. Those very
useful MS "extensions" as they call it, do nothing more than forcing
developers to use and buy the MS version - as consumers use MS mostly.
Oh, and one last thing: there is no such thing: "MS innovation". MS only
bought things, even DOS was bought. Whoever counts as a "threat" to MS
is usually bought by MS (assimilation). OpenSource luckily prevents
this: that's why I like it the most.
--
Greetings,
Balázs
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From: Per W. <pw...@ia...> - 2004-01-09 18:08:00
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"Viruses are irrelevant. 'Hackers' are irrelevant. We are secure. All that
we create is secure... Error detected: we have assimilated Microsoft"
- The Borg.
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, OROSZI Bal=E1zs wrote:
> Arnout Standaert wrote:
> > >> simply: the problem with MS is not IE 6, the problem is that there
> > is >> no IE 7 (or 6.5 at least)
> >
> > No, the problem _is_ with IE 6.0 too. It's implementation of web
> > standards shows major holes, and require IE-specific workarounds by
> > website developers. It can be bloody hard to design a website with HTML
> > and CSS, and make it look exactly the same in Mozilla and IE.
>
> I have to second that, as I HAVE made a webpage to be compatible with
> both browser, AND even with Konqueror 2 (KDE 2's browser), and I must
> tell you: it WAS hard. The most problems probably were with default
> values (CSS), as some used this as default, so it looked good on them,
> but the other needed explicit specification, otherwise it screwed up, so.=
=2E.
>
> The MAIN problem is, however, I think is javascript. Just look at ANY
> javascript code on the net: they most likely have
> if (IE) {...}
> if (NS) {...}
> ...
> so that's also a headache.
>
> I think it won't change for some time. Not as long as MS decides to be
> as standards-incompatible as possible. Just look at Kerberos. Those very
> useful MS "extensions" as they call it, do nothing more than forcing
> developers to use and buy the MS version - as consumers use MS mostly.
>
> Oh, and one last thing: there is no such thing: "MS innovation". MS only
> bought things, even DOS was bought. Whoever counts as a "threat" to MS
> is usually bought by MS (assimilation). OpenSource luckily prevents
> this: that's why I like it the most.
>
> --
> Greetings,
> Bal=E1zs
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software.
> Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering
> advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms.
> Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html
> _______________________________________________
> Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> Dev...@li...
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
>
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From: Alvin T. <al...@th...> - 2004-01-09 18:20:00
|
the plural form of 'virus' is 'virus'. :P
-alvin
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 13:07, Per Westermark wrote:
> "Viruses are irrelevant. 'Hackers' are irrelevant. We are secure. All tha=
t
> we create is secure... Error detected: we have assimilated Microsoft"
> - The Borg.
>=20
> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, OROSZI Bal=E1zs wrote:
>=20
> > Arnout Standaert wrote:
> > > >> simply: the problem with MS is not IE 6, the problem is that ther=
e
> > > is >> no IE 7 (or 6.5 at least)
> > >
> > > No, the problem _is_ with IE 6.0 too. It's implementation of web
> > > standards shows major holes, and require IE-specific workarounds by
> > > website developers. It can be bloody hard to design a website with HT=
ML
> > > and CSS, and make it look exactly the same in Mozilla and IE.
> >
> > I have to second that, as I HAVE made a webpage to be compatible with
> > both browser, AND even with Konqueror 2 (KDE 2's browser), and I must
> > tell you: it WAS hard. The most problems probably were with default
> > values (CSS), as some used this as default, so it looked good on them,
> > but the other needed explicit specification, otherwise it screwed up, s=
o...
> >
> > The MAIN problem is, however, I think is javascript. Just look at ANY
> > javascript code on the net: they most likely have
> > if (IE) {...}
> > if (NS) {...}
> > ...
> > so that's also a headache.
> >
> > I think it won't change for some time. Not as long as MS decides to be
> > as standards-incompatible as possible. Just look at Kerberos. Those ver=
y
> > useful MS "extensions" as they call it, do nothing more than forcing
> > developers to use and buy the MS version - as consumers use MS mostly.
> >
> > Oh, and one last thing: there is no such thing: "MS innovation". MS onl=
y
> > bought things, even DOS was bought. Whoever counts as a "threat" to MS
> > is usually bought by MS (assimilation). OpenSource luckily prevents
> > this: that's why I like it the most.
> >
> > --
> > Greetings,
> > Bal=E1zs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software.
> > Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering
> > advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms.
> > Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> > Dev...@li...
> > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Perforce Software.
> Perforce is the Fast Software Configuration Management System offering
> advanced branching capabilities and atomic changes on 50+ platforms.
> Free Eval! http://www.perforce.com/perforce/loadprog.html
> _______________________________________________
> Dev-cpp-users mailing list
> Dev...@li...
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
--=20
Alvin Thompson
Navy: 34
Army: 6
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From: Michal M. <mol...@se...> - 2004-01-09 18:52:37
|
Arnout Standaert wrote: > Daniel Glenfield wrote: > >> simply: the problem with MS is not IE 6, the problem is that there > is >> no IE 7 (or 6.5 at least) > > No, the problem _is_ with IE 6.0 too. It's implementation of web > standards shows major holes, and require IE-specific workarounds by > website developers. It can be bloody hard to design a website with HTML > and CSS, and make it look exactly the same in Mozilla and IE. you misunderstand me. Of course that IE 6 has holes in its implementation of standards in comparsion with today's browsers like Mozilla 1.5 or Opera 7. But on the end of August 2001 (that's 9 months before Mozilla 1.0) when it was released it was probably the most standard compliant browser (except of some Mozilla's betas (including NN6) which started to be usable but still full of glitches). And IE 6 was really significant step towards standards as it introduced so called "standard mode" to which you can switch the rendering engine using DOCTYPE. That's really big difference against IE 5.0/5.5. |
