binarycloud-dev — development list for binarycloud

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Alby Lash schrieb:
> As far as I understand, jsp/servlet architecture is a lot faster than
> perl/php/asp etc. Once the server engine interprets/compiles the script the
> code becomes cached and operates like a real compiled application, and less
> like a bunch of self referential scripts.

mod_perl Apache::Registry does this also; and is closer to the apache API. 
(sockets vs direct in-proc calls)
nevertheless good JSP engines (resin http://www.caucho.com/products/resin/) 
are still faster, because the optimizing java compiler can do better than the 
php or perl compiler. 

but i'll never do any java, I'll rather kill my time with php than with java.
And I still don't trust the java memory management, similar to mswindows
memory 
management, which makes it "hard" to run on production servers, esp with
1000's of 
vhosts. (even though it still does only sockets).

BTW: mod_lisp is similar to jsp/servlets. 
resin just has a better code and template caching scheme than mod_lisp, 
which has none yet.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Bowyer" <re...@f2...>
> To: <bin...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz
> 
> > At 03:49 PM 7/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
> > >I really wanted to use common lisp or mod_perl (mason,embperl or axkit)
> > >for my big e-commerce site i'm working on, but they cannot afford
> > >server hosting for the beginning, so I cannot use mod_perl (nor
> > >lisp/zope/jsp),
> > >only php.
> >
> > And what's wrong with PHP?
> >
> > Admittedly I've never done any large scale development, so what is the
> > reason for wishing to use something else?

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Peter Bowyer schrieb:
> At 03:49 PM 7/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
> >I really wanted to use common lisp or mod_perl (mason,embperl or axkit)
> >for my big e-commerce site i'm working on, but they cannot afford
> >server hosting for the beginning, so I cannot use mod_perl (nor
> >lisp/zope/jsp),
> >only php.
> 
> And what's wrong with PHP?
> Admittedly I've never done any large scale development, so what is the
> reason for wishing to use something else?

PHP 4 is okay. the language got better and libs got better. 
much less work than with perl.
the language itself still tastes a bit ugly but that's okay for me.
development is a nightmare ("printf debugging"), which is much easier under 
lisp (best) or perl (okay). i'll definitely buy an better ide (zend debugger?) 
than xemacs later.
the php core is more mature than perl, with it thousands of 
unmaintainable modules and the threading and utf problems. 

with mod_perl/apache or lisp as server+app I could dig deep into the server 
internals (see the apache/perl eagle book). there are about seven hooks into 
the apache request cycle. php tastes only the surface.
all perl frameworks are more advanced than php's now (mason,embperl,axkit). 
i'd favor embperl personally. 
but on the user front there are much more php modules and solutions and a 
much bigger community. and with binarycloud even an organized one :)

lisp is the best language for complex and abstract frameworks, because there's 
no division into templates and code. everything has the same syntax and is
basically 
the same, a lisp macro. no lost tags, impossible to create invalid html code.
it compiles to super fast code, not comparable to lisp or perl, which have 
still poor interpreters. (zend also scratches only the surface yet, compared
to 
lisp, scheme or ml compilers)
it's secure (sessions and transactions) and threaded per se.
but it needs memory (~10x times more) and the webstuff is very "undeveloped". 
almost no convenience libs. the comunity is very small. (say 10 people...)
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> As far as I understand, jsp/servlet architecture is a lot faster than
> perl/php/asp etc. Once the server engine interprets/compiles the script the

Reverse that, a lot _slower_. :)

> code becomes cached and operates like a real compiled application, and less
> like a bunch of self referential scripts.

That is true, nonetheless, php is much faster. I can't remember specific
bench numbers, but php is pretty much as high performance as it gets.

_a



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Bowyer" <re...@f2...>
> To: <bin...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz
> 
> 
>> At 03:49 PM 7/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
>>> I really wanted to use common lisp or mod_perl (mason,embperl or axkit)
>>> for my big e-commerce site i'm working on, but they cannot afford
>>> server hosting for the beginning, so I cannot use mod_perl (nor
>>> lisp/zope/jsp),
>>> only php.
>> 
>> And what's wrong with PHP?
>> 
>> Admittedly I've never done any large scale development, so what is the
>> reason for wishing to use something else?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Peter.
>> 
>> --
>> In the beginning was the word,
>> and the word was Content-type: text/plain.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> binarycloud-dev mailing list
>> bin...@li...
>> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
> 


--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Alby L. <al...@th...>]

As far as I understand, jsp/servlet architecture is a lot faster than
perl/php/asp etc. Once the server engine interprets/compiles the script the
code becomes cached and operates like a real compiled application, and less
like a bunch of self referential scripts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Bowyer" <re...@f2...>
To: <bin...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz


> At 03:49 PM 7/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
> >I really wanted to use common lisp or mod_perl (mason,embperl or axkit)
> >for my big e-commerce site i'm working on, but they cannot afford
> >server hosting for the beginning, so I cannot use mod_perl (nor
> >lisp/zope/jsp),
> >only php.
>
> And what's wrong with PHP?
>
> Admittedly I've never done any large scale development, so what is the
> reason for wishing to use something else?
>
> Thanks,
> Peter.
>
> --
> In the beginning was the word,
> and the word was Content-type: text/plain.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
>

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Alex Black schrieb:
> > I really wanted to use common lisp or mod_perl (mason,embperl or axkit)
> > for my big e-commerce site i'm working on, but they cannot afford
> > server hosting for the beginning, so I cannot use mod_perl (nor
> > lisp/zope/jsp), only php.
> 
> heh.
> 
> have you used jsp in production?

no. i'm more into lisp and perl and try to avoid c++/java/delphi 
as much as possible.

> > ok, for PHP I found these two best: BS and ariadne
> > BC has the best layout so far. and a lot of useful admin modules.
> > and I don't like Ariadne's interface that much. BC already has more modules
> > and a similar structure.
> > only that BC is really slow compared to my phpwiki,
> > which serves the pages from mysql with a lot of dynamic pcre translations,
> > and compared to ariadne which uses a clever caching scheme
> > (precalculated object inheritance and stored static pages).
> 
> Of course it is!
> That's like comparing:
> echo "hello, world";
> to the entire contents of PHPLIB!

indead.

> My render target for non-auth pages is ~10th of a second. With caching we
> can cut that by a fifth for 'static' pages.
> it is unrealistic to expect that binarycloud will have the same performance
> as a simple, small application like PHPWiki.
> 
> I like phpWiki, but one would use its functionality within a module, not do
> a comparison of the two systems.

yes, that was an idea to do at a later stage. like the zope wiki as zope
module. 
people love to play in wikis.
phpwki is terribly unorganized now. and i wanted to abstract out the db and 
add user preferences. which would be much better with a more abstract 
framework like bc's. 

> > ariadne has a very sexy DHTML htmleditor included (IE only) which might
> > be a good seller for getting advanced users attracted, instead of bc's
> > features which certainly gets admins attracted :)
> 
> Actually, I have posted a "very sexy" dhtml editor to this list, which will
> likely be integrated into a CMS module.

:)
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Peter B. <re...@f2...>]

At 03:49 PM 7/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
>I really wanted to use common lisp or mod_perl (mason,embperl or axkit)
>for my big e-commerce site i'm working on, but they cannot afford
>server hosting for the beginning, so I cannot use mod_perl (nor
>lisp/zope/jsp),
>only php.

And what's wrong with PHP?

Admittedly I've never done any large scale development, so what is the 
reason for wishing to use something else?

Thanks,
Peter.

--
In the beginning was the word,
and the word was Content-type: text/plain.

[binarycloud-dev] bc_edit

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

hi all,

have a look at this zip..

it's that editor I just spoke of. This allows anyone to edit 'simple' html
documents - for content authors, etc.

you need IE 5.5+ to use it.

best,

_alex

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> Justin Farnsworth schrieb:
>> Oeeewah, you are stirring my ingrained paranoia.  When I first
>> started looking at BC, I thought, this Mother is
>> really going to be slow, with all those file operations,
>> certainly one per module.  And the way I like to write
>> tiny modules, I thought, ungh.
>> 
>> So I am curious about your experience with speed
>> and BC.  Is there any data, even anecdotal, relative,
>> to the other CMS/YATS/platforms?
> 
> I really wanted to use common lisp or mod_perl (mason,embperl or axkit)
> for my big e-commerce site i'm working on, but they cannot afford
> server hosting for the beginning, so I cannot use mod_perl (nor
> lisp/zope/jsp), 
> only php.

heh.

have you used jsp in production?

> ok, for PHP I found these two best: BS and ariadne
> BC has the best layout so far. and a lot of useful admin modules.
> and I don't like Ariadne's interface that much. BC already has more modules
> and 
> a similar structure.
> only that BC is really slow compared to my phpwiki,
> which serves the pages from mysql with a lot of dynamic pcre translations,
> and compared to ariadne which uses a clever caching scheme
> (precalculated object inheritance and stored static pages).

Of course it is!

That's like comparing:

echo "hello, world";

to the entire contents of PHPLIB!

----

My render target for non-auth pages is ~10th of a second. With caching we
can cut that by a fifth for 'static' pages.

it is underalistic to expect that binarycloud will have the same performance
as a simple, small application like PHPWiki.

I like phpWiki, but one would use its functionality within a module, not do
a comparison of the two systems.

when was the last time you comparison shopped for a car, and compared it to
a bicycle? If your only requirement for a vehicle is that you can get it on
the subway, then of course the bike wins. But if you want to do 60 with air
conditioning, a cd playing, three passengers and a horn - you need a car.

> ariadne has a very sexy DHTML htmleditor included (IE only) which might
> be a good seller for getting advanced users attracted, instead of bc's
> features 
> which certainly gets admins attracted :)

Actually, I have posted a "very sexy" dhtml editor to this list, which will
likely be integrated into a CMS module.

It allows visual editing of fairly complex documents, and html source.


best,

_alex


--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] Suggestion for multiple sites

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> When using BC for multiple sites, I am curious about the "make siteA"
> command. Does this mean that if we build a site with BC, then build another
> one 6 months later, we will have to re-make the first site, then make the
> second, etc. ?

No.

You would only need to run make in the sites that you changed - i.e. if you
go in and modify code in the source tree, then you run make to publish it to
your build directory.

You wouldn't need to make every site subdirectory every time you make a
modification to one.

_alex



--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] Where to put global initialisation code

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> Typically I have some code that are executed on *every* page. An example
> of this would be to connect to a database. I normally put them in an
> 'include' file and include it in all the other pages.

What other things do you put in this include?

All database connections will be "managed" by querymanager, based on
datasource definitions that live in user/conf/datasources.xml.

At the moment, Querymanager doesn't exist in the sense that it is not
integrated into the system - so you'd be best off putting some of that code
in a library, and include it in a module.

> Where would be the right place to have this "initialisation" code?
> 
> I am thinking of putting it in a module, and call that module on every
> page, then just make a global var for the db handle e.g. global $db; and
> have my other modules access this $db.
> 
> I somehow feel that this is not the right way to do it....

While r2 is in development, it is. When all the tools are hooked up, etc you
won't want to do it that way, because it will be 100x easier to use QM.

_a







--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> Just out of curiosity, why are you looking around for other system....
> Particularly binarycloud?
> I had a look at ariadne and at a glance it looks good too :) I am new
> with BC... Don't know what to do now you've made me confused again
> 
> Any comments from you or someone else? Justin or alex?

I had a look at adriane when I was thinking about bulding bc - it's nicely
done, but simple and quite small.

Reini seems to think that bc was a CMS, which is funny, but it certainly
isn't that. I expect to have CMS modules that work within the system, but
the system itself is a generalized set of advanced development tools.

At the same time, this is not for the lazy, there are requirements for
writing code.

The idea behind binarycloud is to allow developers to create abstracted,
reusable component applications which can be plugged into the system and
used immediately. I know of no other system that allows that sort of
flexibility in the real world. (there are plenty of systems that allow
plugging modules, but they are filled with echos for html, which makes the
useless, etc etc.

_alex




--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] Suggestion for multiple sites

[Alby L. <al...@th...>]

When using BC for multiple sites, I am curious about the "make siteA"
command. Does this mean that if we build a site with BC, then build another
one 6 months later, we will have to re-make the first site, then make the
second, etc. ?

Or is the makefile currently defaulting to en and da for the time being?

Alby

> > make siteA

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> Personally I would say that bc is too slow. "duck an run" :)
> no, really as long it doesn't cache dynamic pages...

A caching system is quite easy to implement, we'll probably use PEAR_Cache.

I'll likely implement a hook in Page to do this at a later date.

> there are hundreds of similar and easier php cms systems.
> see the php faq. 

If you think bc is a CMS, then you haven't been paying attention :)

If you look at that url, it's an interface to a fairly extensive DB - it
isn't a set of articles or soemthing small scale.

As far as pure speed goes, so far I'm benching at under a 10th of a second?

_a


--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] About multiple pages template / layout...

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> Hi,
> 
> Say I have index.php and news.php
> Should I use two master template or two layouts?

Probably two layouts, assuming you want to have shared navigation, a log,
etc on both pages.

_a


--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] Suggestion for multiple sites

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> sites to be put at the ./user level, like
> 
> user
> |-- binarycloud
> |   `-- mod
> |       `-- mod
> |           `-- xslt_example
> |-- conf
> |-- db
> |   |-- dump
> |   `-- schema
> |-- lang
> |-- mod
> |-- roles
> `-- tmpl
> |   `-- html
> |       |-- layouts
> |       `-- masters
> site1
> |-- conf
> |-- lang
> |-- mod
> `-- tmpl
> |    `-- html
> |       |-- layouts
> |       `-- masters
> |
> site2
> |

Actually, I was thinking one level below in the source tree.

In the build tree, the imports would probably looks like

sitename.mod.mod_dir.ModuleName

> and so forth.  This makes BC more multi-site friendly.
> Anyway, this is what I understand what is being considered.

Not considered, many people have mentioned this and I totally agree with it.

After core is complete and stable, we'll go through and do this "other
stuff"

> Right now, I just am developing all modules under
> "package" directories under ./mod/package and
> have all masters/layouts in the same directory
> but pay attention not to have name clash, even
> though masters and layouts will be numerous
> over many sites.  I hope this will be temporary.

It will.

> There has also been a discussion of the DOCUMENT_ROOT
> tree structure, but, in a way, this is up to the
> user and BC doesn't need to dictate how the DOCUMENT_ROOT
> is organized, it is truly a user preference.

yes, the only "requirement" for distro modules is that they use the
resources/ tree.


-alex

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> I'd like to replicate this functionality http://64.14.114.200/cademo/
> <http://64.14.114.200/cademo/>  with binary cloud?

Cool, bunch of modules :)

> I'd also like to create a paycheck analysis tool, sort of like
> paycheckcity.com but better with more thorough analysis.

Cool.

> My question is and I realize this is sort of an off topic post?
> 
> I need to create 2001 Federal and State Tax tables, where would I get the
> data (in some kind of electronic format I could more easily import into
> mysql) and once I got it how in the world could it be regularly updated?  At
> this point this is just pie in the sky ideas about some applications but you
> never know what might come out of just looking into an idea.

I don't know where you can get tax tables, though I am certain someone sells
them specifically for import into sql DBs..

of course everything you just mentioned is entirely doable with bc, even the
current version of r2 :)

_a




--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] Need advice on Smarty integration and path

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> Hi alex,
> 
> Yeah it's me again :)
> 
> I have a question, I just understood (a little bit) about how modules
> work...., please correct or add:
> 
> 1. Implement small logics into separate modules (e.g. news display)

Yes.

You want all non-output operations in the constructor (queries, math, etc).
All output goes in Output();

> 2. put the template needed by the module in a subdirectory under that
> module's directory.

Yes. or in the same directory if you like, it's a matter of personal
preference.

I like to have a tmpl/ dir under module directories.

> 3. in Module::Output() I can import the template using the import syntax
> (does this mean the directory can't have dot in the name?)

Yes, I believe you can.

> Smarty uses a fixed directory for its template files (as well as a
> separate dir for compiled template files). How can it fit in
> binarycloud's directory model?

binarycloud/user/tmpl/html/smarty/

:)

_a


--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] Cannot Inter-Module Communicate: Copy, Copy, who has the copy?

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

> Alex:
> 
> Now Alex, with that arcane Subject:, I hope to get your
> attention.
> 
> I think this is important, I have been working hours on this
> problem, and I think I have been very careful.  This problem
> is difficult to explain, so give me some latitude.  To
> get your attention, your allegation that inter-module
> communication via the construct:
> 
> $Page->modules[group][idx_in_group]->some_method_or_parm;
> 
> DOES NOT WORK anymore since you changed the machinery from
> using Init() to having a constructor instead.

That has nothing to do with Init or a Constructor?

That's a fairly standard, boring class reference.

Remember that to reference a module, the module doing the ref must load
_after_ the target.


> ---------------------------
> 1.  I have a Warning module that collects warnings from
> any module, on a stack, and in the page render
> I display them all in a "pane".
> 2.  This Warning module is in a group 'bottom', all
> by itself.
> 3.  From another module, I call a method in the Warning
> module to stack a warning thus:
> 
> $Page->modules['bottom'][0]->setWarning($msg);
> 
> to stack the warning ($msg) within the Warning
> module/Class on $this->WarningStack.
> 4.  Before Init() was dropped, and the constructor used,
> I put the stack ($WarningStack) global.  The code
> worked fine, any warning anywhere from any other
> module was collected on the stack.

You can keep that Global, again Init(); has nothing to do with it?

> 5.  When a constructor was introduced, I moved $WarningStack
> inside the Warning class as a var $WarningStack;
>
> What it seems like is that inter-module communication via
> your suggested construct, or the one I am also using, via
> a "tag", is only talking to a copy of the "real class".
> In the application, all warnings I collect (and from that
> module, verify that they are on the stack, by the same
> construct as above) appear to be present.  What that means
> is if I do from the outside, so to speak:
> 
> $Page->modules['bottom'][0]->showWarnings();
> 
> the stack contains all of the warnings collected.
> 
> BUT, by the time the Warning module is ready to Output(),
> the stack $this->WarningStack ONLY HAS stacked data that
> it put there itself.  The "outside" warnings are not present.

That sounds like a problem with your module.

> What is going on here?  Who made the copy, where is
> the copy, why don't I have only one stack since
> I moved it within the Warning class?

I don't know.

_a

--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Re: [binarycloud-dev] Suggestion for multiple sites

[Alex B. <en...@tu...>]

This was the directory structure I had in mind..

I like that better than:

binarycloud/
    base/
    user/
    sitename/
    sitename/
    sitename/
    sitename/
etc.    


> Odysseas / alex,
> 
> Perhaps to make BC multi site friendly we can do it like this:
> 
> /path/to/binarycloud/user/siteA
> /path/to/binarycloud/user/siteB
> /path/to/binarycloud/user/siteC
> 
> Move everything under
> /path/to/binarycloud/user
> Into
> /path/to/binarycloud/user/siteA
> 
> Then on the make command it would be:
> 
> make siteA
> 
> Or to build a site skeleton:
> make new name=siteA
> 
> Perhaps the skeleton should be placed under:
> /path/to/binarycloud/base/skeleton


That's an interesting idea, but user/ would effectively provide that in the
distro tarballs. That's why those tarballs are like that: so you can install
a functioning, if small application.

_a


> 
> Regards,
> Jimmy Harlindong
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> binarycloud-dev mailing list
> bin...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/binarycloud-dev
> 


--
alex black, ceo
en...@tu...

the turing studio, inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

[binarycloud-dev] Where to put global initialisation code

[Jimmy H. <ji...@ha...>]

Hi,

Typically I have some code that are executed on *every* page. An example
of this would be to connect to a database. I normally put them in an
'include' file and include it in all the other pages.

Where would be the right place to have this "initialisation" code? 

I am thinking of putting it in a module, and call that module on every
page, then just make a global var for the db handle e.g. global $db; and
have my other modules access this $db.

I somehow feel that this is not the right way to do it....

Please give me a hint thanks

Re: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Justin Farnsworth schrieb:
> Oeeewah, you are stirring my ingrained paranoia.  When I first
> started looking at BC, I thought, this Mother is
> really going to be slow, with all those file operations,
> certainly one per module.  And the way I like to write
> tiny modules, I thought, ungh.
> 
> So I am curious about your experience with speed
> and BC.  Is there any data, even anecdotal, relative,
> to the other CMS/YATS/platforms?

I really wanted to use common lisp or mod_perl (mason,embperl or axkit) 
for my big e-commerce site i'm working on, but they cannot afford 
server hosting for the beginning, so I cannot use mod_perl (nor
lisp/zope/jsp), 
only php.

ok, for PHP I found these two best: BS and ariadne
BC has the best layout so far. and a lot of useful admin modules.
and I don't like Ariadne's interface that much. BC already has more modules
and 
a similar structure. 
only that BC is really slow compared to my phpwiki, 
which serves the pages from mysql with a lot of dynamic pcre translations, 
and compared to ariadne which uses a clever caching scheme 
(precalculated object inheritance and stored static pages).

ariadne has a very sexy DHTML htmleditor included (IE only) which might 
be a good seller for getting advanced users attracted, instead of bc's
features 
which certainly gets admins attracted :)

> But, back to reality, I used to worry about squeezing
> 10 bites out of C programs on a Z-80 with 64K memory.
> So, I rationalize to myself, well, in a year our server
> will be 1.5 MHz and a 200 MHz FSB and 2 gigs of memory
> and everything will be resident the VM page set anyway...

it's only the megs and file io, but i'm already using reiserfs and 
it's still quite slow for my taste.

> Even if BC is slow, I want it for its elegant
> features and I'll just forget about speed envy.

true. i'm just testing and still evaluating both...
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

[binarycloud-dev] Quite a good idea for a module: "Newspaper"

[Jimmy H. <ji...@ha...>]

Here they are, from ariadne:

http://www.muze.nl/software/ariadne/docs/tutorials/newspaper.html

OK we might not call it Newspaper but the idea is great and it is
certainly used *most* frequently.

RE: [binarycloud-dev] capwiz

[Jimmy H. <ji...@ha...>]

Reini,

> I also use ariadne (http://www.muze.nl/software/ariadne/), 
> which is much faster, but has less features.

Just out of curiosity, why are you looking around for other system....
Particularly binarycloud?
I had a look at ariadne and at a glance it looks good too :) I am new
with BC... Don't know what to do now you've made me confused again

Any comments from you or someone else? Justin or alex?

RE: [binarycloud-dev] Suggestion for multiple sites

[Jimmy H. <ji...@ha...>]

Justin,

IIRC (If I read correctly :) this is what I was proposing as well.
That's good then I agree :)

I am starting to pick up the pace with BC now... Gosh been trying to get
it into my thick head for over a week and it only started to dawn on me
in these last two days.... Maybe I should stop chatting on irc so much..
:)

Ta

> sites to be put at the ./user level, like
> 
> user
> |-- binarycloud
> |   `-- mod
> |       `-- mod
> |           `-- xslt_example
> |-- conf
> |-- db
> |   |-- dump
> |   `-- schema
> |-- lang
> |-- mod
> |-- roles
> `-- tmpl
> |   `-- html
> |       |-- layouts
> |       `-- masters
> site1
> |-- conf
> |-- lang
> |-- mod
> `-- tmpl
> |    `-- html
> |       |-- layouts
> |       `-- masters
> |
> site2
> |
> 

[binarycloud-dev] About multiple pages template / layout...

[Jimmy H. <ji...@ha...>]

Hi,

Say I have index.php and news.php
Should I use two master template or two layouts?

Regards,
Jimmy