Re: [Audacity-devel] Save versus Export (was export dialog branch)

[Dominic M. <do...@mi...>]

ad...@po... wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been sitting on the sidelines for quite some time watching the happenings
>  on this list. I've found the Audacity dev community to be vibrant, 
>  inspiring and inspired :)

Hi Al, thanks for writing.

> 3. Is Audacity wanting to be a multitrack editor or a combo single-file + 
> multitrack editor?
>  - Audacity users appear to work in two conceptual modes (or combinations 
> thereof):
>      - Single File (e.g. I want to tweak this audio file)
>      - Multitrack Mode (e.g. I want to record and mix multiple tracks and I
>      don't much care about files on disk.)
>  - Obviously the same user can use Audacity in both ways. e.g. Record a band
>  (multitrack mode) then mix to a single file. Then "master" that mix file
>  (single file mode).

I totally agree.  I find myself wanting to use Audacity for both tasks.
Currently I find Single File mode to be the one that's unnatural.

> 4. Should Audacity support these methods of working explicity?
>  - Should Audacity dictate how a user works? (e.g. always in multitrack mode)
>  - Should it be flexible at the cost of conceptual complexity and confusion
>  to users by using mixed metaphors (being a virtual multitrack tapemachine
>  as well as a file editor)?

Coming from a Mac background, I tend to believe that it's possible to
create an app that's totally simple and "discoverable" for beginning
users, without getting in the way of efficiency for advanced users.

It sounds like what we're leaning towards a design where Audacity would
"guess" which mode you're in by your actions.  I like the idea of
Audacity giving the users warnings or hints the first time they try
certain features (like saving a project file, for example) while giving
the user the option to enable or disable this warning in the future.

> 5. When I'm talking about Modes:
>  - I'm not necessarily meaning explicity modes (like command or edit modes
>  in VI). I'm more talking about what a user is thinking he/she is doing.
>  (i.e. conceptual usage modes).

Agreed.

> My suggestion:
> 
> - If a user Opens an Audio File, changes it, then saves then the Save 
> operation should save the audio data back to it's original file. This was 
> obviously what the user intended. (single-file conceptual mode)

It sounds like most people agree with this.  Any objections?

The only question is what to do if they've added some content that can't
be saved in the original format.  There are a lot of options, including:

1. Open a Save As dialog in that case.  If the user selects a format
    other than an Audacity Project, they get a warning that their tracks
    will be mixed, etc.

2. Bring up a simpler dialog, asking the user if they want to save as
    WAV (or whatever), mixing and applying certain features, or if they
    want to save an Audacity Project.  (There could be a checkbox,
    "make this option the default.".

> - If a user "imports" (implicity or explicitly) an Audio file in to Audacity
> (i.e. in to the current project), then a save operation should save the
> project along with anything necessary to save the changed audio data.
> (multitrack conceptual mode)

Note that unlike CoolEdit, Audacity does not ever modify the original
files if you import two tracks, modify them, and save the project.
By default it "aliases" the original files, but stores all modifications
in the project itself.

In other words, Audacity will never modify a file you have on disk
unless you select "Save", and then it should only modify one file.
If you have multiple tracks in your project, "Save" should always
pop up a "Save As" dialog forcing you to pick a name for the exported
file...(is this clear?)

> How this is implemented maybe an explicit "hard" mode (like Cool Edit Pro),
> or not. I'm just putting it out there that people do work in these two
> distinct ways.
> 
> I realise that Audacity has it's own audio data format and there isn't such
> a distinction between opening an audio file and importing one into a track,
> but maybe there should be?

Yes, I agree...the distinction is that if you open a file, then as long
as you don't make certain changes to it (like adding more tracks later),
selecting Save will replace the original file (though Undo will still
work until you close the window or Quit).

> Hope this wasn't a load of crap :)

No, thanks very much for the quite insightful feedback.  It's good for
me to see a succinct comparison of Audacity to other editors, since I
spend so much time on Audacity that I have little time (or $$$) to play
with any others.  I also avoid running Windows.  :)

- Dominic

> Thanks for providing such good brain food!
> 
> cheers,
> Al.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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