Thread: Re: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look (Page 2)
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From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2010-09-14 06:04:59
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On 9/13/2010 6:24 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:15:11 +0100 > | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look >> The link icon on track panel is clearly not a button now (which is >> good), and I like that you can click on it to select the track when >> the track is collapsed. > > I'm fine with it now the horizontal line above the icon has gone. As in a horror movie, "It's BAAAAACK!" -- but only temporarily, pending the decision on the size of the minimize button, about making its width smaller on both sides, per the message I just sent. > > >> However when SyncLock is off and the track is minimised, there is >> a tiny sliver between the track name and the expand button, which >> if clicked on with the accuracy of a surgeon it is possible to select >> the track without expanding it. >> My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track icon >> disappears but the track expand button does not grow to fill the >> space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a space that the user >> can click on when the track is minimised. > > +1. Sync-Lock is off by default and it would be a solution to (easily) > select a minimised track in that default case. > > I think it would look OK to remove that "sliver" between the track > name and the expand button; I don't think it would make the icon look > like a button when in minimised state. The space saved would add up > when you had a lot of tracks. Noted. > > >> Regarding the icon / tiles, I'm not overly concerned about what the >> graphic is, but using a literal representation of a clock would tend >> to invite the question of whether there is any significance to 1:55. >> As it represents "synchronization" rather than "time", perhaps >> something a bit less literal would convey the meaning more clearly, >> for example:http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=synchronize&tbs=isch:1,isz:i&biw=1366&bih=549 > > -1. Those icons made me think of file synchronisation, or exchanging > tracks' vertical order, or the Undo/Redo icon we already use in > Edit Toolbar. If there is a mnemonic for movement it should I think > be horizontal. Great. Much like what I just wrote. > > But given an icon can mean anything, I think the clock is OK and will > look a bit less oppressive since the clocks don't have to be linked > together. > Good. - V |
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From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2010-09-16 23:11:32
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I think I've completed all the TrackInfo sync-lock and minimize button changes we discussed. Described fully in commit for r10676. - Vaughan |
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From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2010-09-14 05:56:52
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On 9/13/2010 7:04 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > | From David Bailes <drb...@go...> > | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:54:38 +0100 >> >> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Vaughan Johnson >> <va...@au...> wrote: >>> >>> Please, David and Gale, check the latest. >> >> re the mute and solo buttons, I think it would be a bit clearer that >> they were buttons if there were horizontal grey lines immediately >> above and below them, as in the edit toolbar. With no difference in >> color betweent the buttons and the background, the current edges have >> fairly low contrast. > > Wouldn't it be better if we could put the dark border back (so affecting > the track menu button and minimise button too), but with a rather > lighter colour? I agree, something akin to the contrast the Edit Toolbar > buttons have would be good. Done, using same color as the border of the toolbars. For the title popup menu and mute/solo buttons, that makes it look like the bottom bevel is bigger than the other 3 bevels, but that's true in the toolbars, too. This currently does restore a line above the sync-lock icon, but I'll fix that after we decide on Steve's suggestion (below). > >> re the clock icon in the track panel. It has slightly low contrast, a >> bit more pitch black might be helpful. I purposely did not do that because it is an indicator, and because it needs to be anti-aliased. Pitch black would be very jagged at 12x12. > > I like the look of the icon in the Track Panel. It doesn't seem quite correct > in the waveform yet. De gustibus non disputandum. I like the one in the waveform much better. Can't get very accurate in the 12x12 pixel icon, so I couldn't make it look as much like my very beautiful (!) tiles as I wanted. I didn't give the proviso Al did, but I am also not a graphic artist. Just wanted to get rid of the chain-link fence look, and finish up this feature. If any of you can do better, please submit the images -- that is not a dare, it's just not a good use of my skills for me to do it. If anybody's going to try it: the icon is 12x12, the tile is 27x27, and the button is 20x20, and needs enabled and disabled versions. Al did the chain-link images purely with the alpha channel. Not sure why. Mine have non-zero gray values in the RGB channels, too, e.g., shades of "Audacity blue" for the clock hands. In the meantime, I've added the button images, based on the tiles. I'd love it if we could get a graphic artist to redo *many* of our amateurish-looking buttons... and we could agree on them! :-) Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced with existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only the Transport buttons are good looking. Do we want to prioritize a slightly newer look for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? I vote yes, especially for readily available replacement images. >As well as it being slightly low contrast, That is intentional. It's an overlay, not content. >the "rim" > that surrounds the clock "looks" thicker than (but lighter than) the clock > itself. There's no distinction of a "rim". I intentionally used a brush in The GIMP so the edges fade on the inside and outside of the circle. >The rim seems thicker at the bottom too (it appears to have light > grey shading in the bottom half of the clock face on my monitor). Possibly, as I was using a brush, but I think the impression you're getting is because the hands are darker, so make their background look lighter than the bottom half of the circle. And if it's not even all around, that's probably good, as it makes it less two-dimensional. > > The clock tiles also looks a bit like a letter V in a circle. My favorite letter! But I disagree. Nothing on a clock face looks like a V because the hands are different lengths. Clearly, the hour hand is on the right. That's why you say "five/ten to" two, below. My thinking was that both hands should be up, so it's not a frown or droopy mustache. 10:05, 10:10 and 11:05 all look like a check mark in a circle. It wasn't arbitrary. I thought about those before I did it. >Maybe it would > be a bit better if the "time" was closer to a quarter to two? It looks a > bit like "five to" in the tiles and "ten to" in the Track Panel - is it an > illusion? It's due to the different resolutions. I think any of the quarter-hour positions, for either hand, make it look less like a clock and more like a pie chart. :-) > > So for me, more space between the clock tiles, Interesting. There's already more space between the clock tiles than there were for the chain links, i.e., the image is a smaller part of the tile. >with a slightly, darker > thinner rim would help. > I disagree. The color is very similar to the chain links tiles. Should be light, and somewhat fuzzy, as an overlay, so it doesn't appear to be a series of objects/controls, or content of the track. On 9/13/2010 9:15 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > > The link icon on track panel is clearly not a button now (which is > good), and I like that you can click on it to select the track when > the track is collapsed. Thanks. >However when SyncLock is off and the track is > minimised, there is a tiny sliver between the track name and the > expand button, which if clicked on with the accuracy of a surgeon it > is possible to select the track without expanding it. I think that was true prior to my recent changes, and is an off-by-one error in the original code. > My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track icon > disappears but the track expand button does not grow to fill the > space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a space that the user > can click on when the track is minimised. >[and Martyn's +1] I think it looks odd to have the minimize button "left-justified" when nothing is to its right. How about shrinking the minimize button on the left, too, leaving a blank that's the size of the icon on both sides of the minimize button when sync-lock is off, and putting the icon to its right (as currently) when sync-lock is on? > > Regarding the icon / tiles, I'm not overly concerned about what the > graphic is, but using a literal representation of a clock would tend > to invite the question of whether there is any significance to 1:55. That would be true of any time we choose. > As it represents "synchronization" rather than "time", perhaps > something a bit less literal would convey the meaning more clearly, > for example:http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=synchronize&tbs=isch:1,isz:i&biw=1366&bih=549 > Those images imply very different meanings of "synchronize", imo. They mean "make these two different storage items contain the same latest superset." The world/folder ones imply local-to-distant. The circling arrows more often have the meaning of "refresh" (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&biw=983&bih=634&tbs=isch%3A1%2Cisz%3Ai&sa=1&q=refresh+icon). And the gear image usually means "settings/preferences", so doesn't really even belong in the group, regardless of showing up in a Google search result. So, I think any of those would be misleading, as we mean, "lock these tracks together on the timeline". "Sync-Lock", not "Synchronize". - Vaughan |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-09-14 11:16:27
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| From Vaughan Johnson <va...@au...> | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:57:04 -0700 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > On 9/13/2010 7:04 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > I like the look of the icon in the Track Panel. It doesn't seem quite correct > > in the waveform yet. > > ... Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced with > existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only the Transport > buttons are good looking. Do we want to prioritize a slightly newer look > for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? I vote yes, especially for readily > available replacement images. I'd be about 0 on that, would rather concentrate on bugs. Funnily enough the Transport buttons get criticised as "retro" more than any of the other buttons (though I think you are talking more about how "professional" they look)? > > The clock tiles also looks a bit like a letter V in a circle. > > My thinking was that both hands should be up, so it's not a frown or > droopy mustache. 10:05, 10:10 and 11:05 all look like a check mark in a > circle. It wasn't arbitrary. I thought about those before I did it. > > >with a slightly, darker > > thinner rim would help. > > > > I disagree. The color is very similar to the chain links tiles. Should > be light, and somewhat fuzzy, as an overlay, so it doesn't appear to be > a series of objects/controls, or content of the track. > Granted. As you suggested, I think part of my problem is the darker colour for the clock hands which we did not have with the link tiles. At the current resolution for the tiles, the clock hands seem to me much darker relative to their surround than they do in the Track Panel. Maybe just a thinner surround would help. I do find it a bit trying to look at right now. I look forward to what Al comes up with so that we can always get a selection that will draw the graphic without packing the icons too close. Funnily enough, if you now draw a small enough selection in the "correct" place you can get a pair of dotted vertical lines that look very like a border for the Sync-Lock selection: http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/sync_lock_selected_edges.png Personally I still really like that idea, because I think you might then get away with smaller tiles, which would also reduce the oppressive feeling that some people get. > > My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track icon > > disappears but the track expand button does not grow to fill the > > space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a space that the user > > can click on when the track is minimised. > > >[and Martyn's +1] > > I think it looks odd to have the minimize button "left-justified" when > nothing is to its right. How about shrinking the minimize button on the > left, too, leaving a blank that's the size of the icon on both sides of > the minimize button when sync-lock is off, and putting the icon to its > right (as currently) when sync-lock is on? +1. Maybe the new left edge of the minimise button could line up vertically with the boundary between the track close and track drop-down button? If that meant widening the space for the icon a little to match, I don't think that would hurt. It also gives a possible space for a "real" sync-lock button in the Track Panel if we ever want one. Gale |
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From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2010-09-15 01:36:11
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On 9/14/2010 4:16 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > | From Vaughan Johnson <va...@au...> > | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:57:04 -0700 > | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look >> On 9/13/2010 7:04 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: >>> I like the look of the icon in the Track Panel. It doesn't seem quite correct >>> in the waveform yet. >> >> ... Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced with >> existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only the Transport >> buttons are good looking. Do we want to prioritize a slightly newer look >> for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? I vote yes, especially for readily >> available replacement images. > > I'd be about 0 on that, would rather concentrate on bugs. Funnily enough > the Transport buttons get criticised as "retro" more than any of the other > buttons (though I think you are talking more about how "professional" > they look)? Moved this digression to team@. > > >>> The clock tiles also looks a bit like a letter V in a circle. >> >> My thinking was that both hands should be up, so it's not a frown or >> droopy mustache. 10:05, 10:10 and 11:05 all look like a check mark in a >> circle. It wasn't arbitrary. I thought about those before I did it. >> >>> with a slightly, darker >>> thinner rim would help. >>> >> >> I disagree. The color is very similar to the chain links tiles. Should >> be light, and somewhat fuzzy, as an overlay, so it doesn't appear to be >> a series of objects/controls, or content of the track. >> > Granted. As you suggested, I think part of my problem is the darker > colour for the clock hands which we did not have with the link tiles. > > At the current resolution for the tiles, the clock hands seem to me much > darker relative to their surround than they do in the Track Panel. Maybe > just a thinner surround would help. I do find it a bit trying to look at right > now. > > I look forward to what Al comes up with so that we can always get a > selection that will draw the graphic without packing the icons too close. I'm happy to have somebody else deal with the graphics. :-) Again, though, they already are less closely packed than the chain links. > Funnily enough, if you now draw a small enough selection in the "correct" > place you can get a pair of dotted vertical lines that look very like a > border for the Sync-Lock selection: > http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/sync_lock_selected_edges.png Dotted vertical lines are a *lot* easier to do than tiles, but less mnemonic of sync-lock. > > Personally I still really like that idea, because I think you might then get > away with smaller tiles, which would also reduce the oppressive feeling > that some people get. Dotted lines don't require tiles at all. > > >>> My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track icon >>> disappears but the track expand button does not grow to fill the >>> space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a space that the user >>> can click on when the track is minimised. >> >>> [and Martyn's +1] >> >> I think it looks odd to have the minimize button "left-justified" when >> nothing is to its right. How about shrinking the minimize button on the >> left, too, leaving a blank that's the size of the icon on both sides of >> the minimize button when sync-lock is off, and putting the icon to its >> right (as currently) when sync-lock is on? > > +1. Maybe the new left edge of the minimise button could line up > vertically with the boundary between the track close and track > drop-down button? If that meant widening the space for the icon a > little to match, I don't think that would hurt. Very good. Will do. > > It also gives a possible space for a "real" sync-lock button in the > Track Panel if we ever want one. > I still think that's overcrowding, but yes, that's true. Thanks, Vaughan |
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From: Martyn S. <mar...@gm...> - 2010-09-14 22:51:37
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On 19:59, Vaughan Johnson wrote: ... > I didn't give the proviso Al did, but I am also not a graphic artist. > Just wanted to get rid of the chain-link fence look, and finish up this > feature. If any of you can do better, please submit the images -- that > is not a dare, it's just not a good use of my skills for me to do it. > > If anybody's going to try it: the icon is 12x12, the tile is 27x27, and > the button is 20x20, and needs enabled and disabled versions. Al did the > chain-link images purely with the alpha channel. Not sure why. Mine have > non-zero gray values in the RGB channels, too, e.g., shades of "Audacity > blue" for the clock hands. > > In the meantime, I've added the button images, based on the tiles. > > > I'd love it if we could get a graphic artist to redo *many* of our > amateurish-looking buttons... and we could agree on them! :-) > > Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced with > existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only the Transport > buttons are good looking. Do we want to prioritize a slightly newer look > for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? I vote yes, especially for readily > available replacement images. I am planning to pitch the idea of the icon/tile/button redesign to a bunch of my 'graphics' students next week (and possibly some others) - one or more of them may pick it up as a project. Any more technical considerations for them? I will point them at these threads for all of the good-stuff that everybody has put out there already (if anybody wanted to pull all the thoughts into a wiki page, that would be useful to them). I could pitch a more complete overhaul of the look as a more major project (ending May) but would we be able to use it? I don't think Themeing really got finished did it? Maybe less useful to us and them. Thanks Martyn |
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From: Al D. <bus...@gm...> - 2010-09-14 06:40:12
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I'm going to top-post this -- it's related to this conversation but doesn't really respond to any specific points. One deliberate feature of the chain-link images was that they were diagonal. This means you can't draw a vertical or horizontal line that doesn't intersect part of the graphic. One possible arrangement would have a square tile with a clock in the middle and a quarter-clock at each corner. Another is a hexagonal arrangement: tiles are rectangular, about 1xsqrt(3); clocks are drawn as semicircles drawn in the middle of each edge. Using either technique you shouldn't have to pack them all that closely to cover every vertical/horizontal line, but the tiles will have to expand to keep size of clocks the same. With any luck I'll have time to try these this coming weekend (my week is swamped), but I thought I'd throw them out there in case anyone has a chance before that, or in case I don't have time over the weekend. - Al On Monday, September 13, 2010 22:57:04 Vaughan Johnson wrote: > On 9/13/2010 7:04 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > | From David Bailes <drb...@go...> > > | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:54:38 +0100 > >> > >> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Vaughan Johnson > >> > >> <va...@au...> wrote: > >>> Please, David and Gale, check the latest. > >> > >> re the mute and solo buttons, I think it would be a bit clearer > >> that they were buttons if there were horizontal grey lines > >> immediately above and below them, as in the edit toolbar. With > >> no difference in color betweent the buttons and the background, > >> the current edges have fairly low contrast. > > > > Wouldn't it be better if we could put the dark border back (so > > affecting the track menu button and minimise button too), but > > with a rather lighter colour? I agree, something akin to the > > contrast the Edit Toolbar buttons have would be good. > > Done, using same color as the border of the toolbars. For the title > popup menu and mute/solo buttons, that makes it look like the > bottom bevel is bigger than the other 3 bevels, but that's true in > the toolbars, too. > > This currently does restore a line above the sync-lock icon, but > I'll fix that after we decide on Steve's suggestion (below). > > >> re the clock icon in the track panel. It has slightly low > >> contrast, a bit more pitch black might be helpful. > > I purposely did not do that because it is an indicator, and because > it needs to be anti-aliased. Pitch black would be very jagged at > 12x12. > > > I like the look of the icon in the Track Panel. It doesn't seem > > quite correct in the waveform yet. > > De gustibus non disputandum. I like the one in the waveform much > better. Can't get very accurate in the 12x12 pixel icon, so I > couldn't make it look as much like my very beautiful (!) tiles as > I wanted. > > I didn't give the proviso Al did, but I am also not a graphic > artist. Just wanted to get rid of the chain-link fence look, and > finish up this feature. If any of you can do better, please submit > the images -- that is not a dare, it's just not a good use of my > skills for me to do it. > > If anybody's going to try it: the icon is 12x12, the tile is 27x27, > and the button is 20x20, and needs enabled and disabled versions. > Al did the chain-link images purely with the alpha channel. Not > sure why. Mine have non-zero gray values in the RGB channels, too, > e.g., shades of "Audacity blue" for the clock hands. > > In the meantime, I've added the button images, based on the tiles. > > > I'd love it if we could get a graphic artist to redo *many* of our > amateurish-looking buttons... and we could agree on them! :-) > > Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced with > existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only the > Transport buttons are good looking. Do we want to prioritize a > slightly newer look for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? I vote yes, > especially for readily available replacement images. > > >As well as it being slightly low contrast, > > That is intentional. It's an overlay, not content. > > >the "rim" > > > > that surrounds the clock "looks" thicker than (but lighter than) > > the clock itself. > > There's no distinction of a "rim". I intentionally used a brush in > The GIMP so the edges fade on the inside and outside of the > circle. > > >The rim seems thicker at the bottom too (it appears to have light > > > > grey shading in the bottom half of the clock face on my monitor). > > Possibly, as I was using a brush, but I think the impression you're > getting is because the hands are darker, so make their background > look lighter than the bottom half of the circle. > > And if it's not even all around, that's probably good, as it makes > it less two-dimensional. > > > The clock tiles also looks a bit like a letter V in a circle. > > My favorite letter! But I disagree. Nothing on a clock face looks > like a V because the hands are different lengths. Clearly, the > hour hand is on the right. That's why you say "five/ten to" two, > below. > > My thinking was that both hands should be up, so it's not a frown > or droopy mustache. 10:05, 10:10 and 11:05 all look like a check > mark in a circle. It wasn't arbitrary. I thought about those > before I did it. > > >Maybe it would > > > > be a bit better if the "time" was closer to a quarter to two? It > > looks a bit like "five to" in the tiles and "ten to" in the > > Track Panel - is it an illusion? > > It's due to the different resolutions. > > I think any of the quarter-hour positions, for either hand, make it > look less like a clock and more like a pie chart. :-) > > > So for me, more space between the clock tiles, > > Interesting. There's already more space between the clock tiles > than there were for the chain links, i.e., the image is a smaller > part of the tile. > > >with a slightly, darker > > > > thinner rim would help. > > I disagree. The color is very similar to the chain links tiles. > Should be light, and somewhat fuzzy, as an overlay, so it doesn't > appear to be a series of objects/controls, or content of the > track. > > On 9/13/2010 9:15 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > > The link icon on track panel is clearly not a button now (which > > is good), and I like that you can click on it to select the > > track when the track is collapsed. > > Thanks. > > >However when SyncLock is off and the track is > > > > minimised, there is a tiny sliver between the track name and the > > expand button, which if clicked on with the accuracy of a surgeon > > it is possible to select the track without expanding it. > > I think that was true prior to my recent changes, and is an > off-by-one error in the original code. > > > My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track icon > > disappears but the track expand button does not grow to fill the > > space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a space that the > > user can click on when the track is minimised. > > > >[and Martyn's +1] > > I think it looks odd to have the minimize button "left-justified" > when nothing is to its right. How about shrinking the minimize > button on the left, too, leaving a blank that's the size of the > icon on both sides of the minimize button when sync-lock is off, > and putting the icon to its right (as currently) when sync-lock is > on? > > > Regarding the icon / tiles, I'm not overly concerned about what > > the graphic is, but using a literal representation of a clock > > would tend to invite the question of whether there is any > > significance to 1:55. > > That would be true of any time we choose. > > > As it represents "synchronization" rather than "time", perhaps > > something a bit less literal would convey the meaning more > > clearly, for > > example:http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=synchronize&tbs=isch:1,isz > :i&biw=1366&bih=549 > > > Those images imply very different meanings of "synchronize", imo. > They mean "make these two different storage items contain the same > latest superset." The world/folder ones imply local-to-distant. > The circling arrows more often have the meaning of "refresh" > (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&biw=983&bih=634&tbs=isch%3A1% > 2Cisz%3Ai&sa=1&q=refresh+icon). And the gear image usually means > "settings/preferences", so doesn't really even belong in the > group, regardless of showing up in a Google search result. > > So, I think any of those would be misleading, as we mean, "lock > these tracks together on the timeline". "Sync-Lock", not > "Synchronize". > > - Vaughan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual > appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment > and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality |
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From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2010-09-14 06:50:53
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Great. Go for it! Thx, V On 9/13/2010 11:40 PM, Al Dimond wrote: > I'm going to top-post this -- it's related to this conversation but > doesn't really respond to any specific points. One deliberate feature > of the chain-link images was that they were diagonal. This means you > can't draw a vertical or horizontal line that doesn't intersect part > of the graphic. > > One possible arrangement would have a square tile with a clock in the > middle and a quarter-clock at each corner. Another is a hexagonal > arrangement: tiles are rectangular, about 1xsqrt(3); clocks are drawn > as semicircles drawn in the middle of each edge. Using either > technique you shouldn't have to pack them all that closely to cover > every vertical/horizontal line, but the tiles will have to expand to > keep size of clocks the same. > > With any luck I'll have time to try these this coming weekend (my week > is swamped), but I thought I'd throw them out there in case anyone has > a chance before that, or in case I don't have time over the weekend. > > - Al > > On Monday, September 13, 2010 22:57:04 Vaughan Johnson wrote: >> On 9/13/2010 7:04 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: >>> | From David Bailes <drb...@go...> >>> | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:54:38 +0100 >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Vaughan Johnson >>>> >>>> <va...@au...> wrote: >>>>> Please, David and Gale, check the latest. >>>> >>>> re the mute and solo buttons, I think it would be a bit clearer >>>> that they were buttons if there were horizontal grey lines >>>> immediately above and below them, as in the edit toolbar. With >>>> no difference in color betweent the buttons and the background, >>>> the current edges have fairly low contrast. >>> >>> Wouldn't it be better if we could put the dark border back (so >>> affecting the track menu button and minimise button too), but >>> with a rather lighter colour? I agree, something akin to the >>> contrast the Edit Toolbar buttons have would be good. >> >> Done, using same color as the border of the toolbars. For the title >> popup menu and mute/solo buttons, that makes it look like the >> bottom bevel is bigger than the other 3 bevels, but that's true in >> the toolbars, too. >> >> This currently does restore a line above the sync-lock icon, but >> I'll fix that after we decide on Steve's suggestion (below). >> >>>> re the clock icon in the track panel. It has slightly low >>>> contrast, a bit more pitch black might be helpful. >> >> I purposely did not do that because it is an indicator, and because >> it needs to be anti-aliased. Pitch black would be very jagged at >> 12x12. >> >>> I like the look of the icon in the Track Panel. It doesn't seem >>> quite correct in the waveform yet. >> >> De gustibus non disputandum. I like the one in the waveform much >> better. Can't get very accurate in the 12x12 pixel icon, so I >> couldn't make it look as much like my very beautiful (!) tiles as >> I wanted. >> >> I didn't give the proviso Al did, but I am also not a graphic >> artist. Just wanted to get rid of the chain-link fence look, and >> finish up this feature. If any of you can do better, please submit >> the images -- that is not a dare, it's just not a good use of my >> skills for me to do it. >> >> If anybody's going to try it: the icon is 12x12, the tile is 27x27, >> and the button is 20x20, and needs enabled and disabled versions. >> Al did the chain-link images purely with the alpha channel. Not >> sure why. Mine have non-zero gray values in the RGB channels, too, >> e.g., shades of "Audacity blue" for the clock hands. >> >> In the meantime, I've added the button images, based on the tiles. >> >> >> I'd love it if we could get a graphic artist to redo *many* of our >> amateurish-looking buttons... and we could agree on them! :-) >> >> Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced with >> existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only the >> Transport buttons are good looking. Do we want to prioritize a >> slightly newer look for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? I vote yes, >> especially for readily available replacement images. >> >>> As well as it being slightly low contrast, >> >> That is intentional. It's an overlay, not content. >> >>> the "rim" >>> >>> that surrounds the clock "looks" thicker than (but lighter than) >>> the clock itself. >> >> There's no distinction of a "rim". I intentionally used a brush in >> The GIMP so the edges fade on the inside and outside of the >> circle. >> >>> The rim seems thicker at the bottom too (it appears to have light >>> >>> grey shading in the bottom half of the clock face on my monitor). >> >> Possibly, as I was using a brush, but I think the impression you're >> getting is because the hands are darker, so make their background >> look lighter than the bottom half of the circle. >> >> And if it's not even all around, that's probably good, as it makes >> it less two-dimensional. >> >>> The clock tiles also looks a bit like a letter V in a circle. >> >> My favorite letter! But I disagree. Nothing on a clock face looks >> like a V because the hands are different lengths. Clearly, the >> hour hand is on the right. That's why you say "five/ten to" two, >> below. >> >> My thinking was that both hands should be up, so it's not a frown >> or droopy mustache. 10:05, 10:10 and 11:05 all look like a check >> mark in a circle. It wasn't arbitrary. I thought about those >> before I did it. >> >>> Maybe it would >>> >>> be a bit better if the "time" was closer to a quarter to two? It >>> looks a bit like "five to" in the tiles and "ten to" in the >>> Track Panel - is it an illusion? >> >> It's due to the different resolutions. >> >> I think any of the quarter-hour positions, for either hand, make it >> look less like a clock and more like a pie chart. :-) >> >>> So for me, more space between the clock tiles, >> >> Interesting. There's already more space between the clock tiles >> than there were for the chain links, i.e., the image is a smaller >> part of the tile. >> >>> with a slightly, darker >>> >>> thinner rim would help. >> >> I disagree. The color is very similar to the chain links tiles. >> Should be light, and somewhat fuzzy, as an overlay, so it doesn't >> appear to be a series of objects/controls, or content of the >> track. >> >> On 9/13/2010 9:15 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>> The link icon on track panel is clearly not a button now (which >>> is good), and I like that you can click on it to select the >>> track when the track is collapsed. >> >> Thanks. >> >>> However when SyncLock is off and the track is >>> >>> minimised, there is a tiny sliver between the track name and the >>> expand button, which if clicked on with the accuracy of a surgeon >>> it is possible to select the track without expanding it. >> >> I think that was true prior to my recent changes, and is an >> off-by-one error in the original code. >> >>> My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track icon >>> disappears but the track expand button does not grow to fill the >>> space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a space that the >>> user can click on when the track is minimised. >>> >>> [and Martyn's +1] >> >> I think it looks odd to have the minimize button "left-justified" >> when nothing is to its right. How about shrinking the minimize >> button on the left, too, leaving a blank that's the size of the >> icon on both sides of the minimize button when sync-lock is off, >> and putting the icon to its right (as currently) when sync-lock is >> on? >> >>> Regarding the icon / tiles, I'm not overly concerned about what >>> the graphic is, but using a literal representation of a clock >>> would tend to invite the question of whether there is any >>> significance to 1:55. >> >> That would be true of any time we choose. >> >>> As it represents "synchronization" rather than "time", perhaps >>> something a bit less literal would convey the meaning more >>> clearly, for >> >> example:http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=synchronize&tbs=isch:1,isz >> :i&biw=1366&bih=549 >> >> >> Those images imply very different meanings of "synchronize", imo. >> They mean "make these two different storage items contain the same >> latest superset." The world/folder ones imply local-to-distant. >> The circling arrows more often have the meaning of "refresh" >> (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&biw=983&bih=634&tbs=isch%3A1% >> 2Cisz%3Ai&sa=1&q=refresh+icon). And the gear image usually means >> "settings/preferences", so doesn't really even belong in the >> group, regardless of showing up in a Google search result. >> >> So, I think any of those would be misleading, as we mean, "lock >> these tracks together on the timeline". "Sync-Lock", not >> "Synchronize". >> >> - Vaughan |
|
From: Al D. <bus...@gm...> - 2010-09-19 21:07:06
|
On Monday, September 13, 2010 23:51:07 Vaughan Johnson wrote: > Great. Go for it! Thx, V > I've tried some different things and these are the ones that are reasonable. First, tiles with 45-degree pattern. http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-1.png http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-2.png Unfortunately this one is somewhat more dense than the original. I think it's too dense... Second, a tilted-square grid: http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles-tilt1.png This one required some code changes (I could have done it without code changes and a 70x70 tile, but this way it's easier to adjust -- I can make the tiles slightly more or less dense without having to change the graphics). It satisfies my design constraint and reduces density, so I'm pretty happy with it. - Al > On 9/13/2010 11:40 PM, Al Dimond wrote: > > I'm going to top-post this -- it's related to this conversation > > but doesn't really respond to any specific points. One > > deliberate feature of the chain-link images was that they were > > diagonal. This means you can't draw a vertical or horizontal > > line that doesn't intersect part of the graphic. > > > > One possible arrangement would have a square tile with a clock in > > the middle and a quarter-clock at each corner. Another is a > > hexagonal arrangement: tiles are rectangular, about 1xsqrt(3); > > clocks are drawn as semicircles drawn in the middle of each > > edge. Using either technique you shouldn't have to pack them all > > that closely to cover every vertical/horizontal line, but the > > tiles will have to expand to keep size of clocks the same. > > > > With any luck I'll have time to try these this coming weekend (my > > week is swamped), but I thought I'd throw them out there in case > > anyone has a chance before that, or in case I don't have time > > over the weekend. > > > > - Al > > > > On Monday, September 13, 2010 22:57:04 Vaughan Johnson wrote: > >> On 9/13/2010 7:04 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: > >>> | From David Bailes <drb...@go...> > >>> | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:54:38 +0100 > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Vaughan Johnson > >>>> > >>>> <va...@au...> wrote: > >>>>> Please, David and Gale, check the latest. > >>>> > >>>> re the mute and solo buttons, I think it would be a bit > >>>> clearer that they were buttons if there were horizontal grey > >>>> lines immediately above and below them, as in the edit > >>>> toolbar. With no difference in color betweent the buttons and > >>>> the background, the current edges have fairly low contrast. > >>> > >>> Wouldn't it be better if we could put the dark border back (so > >>> affecting the track menu button and minimise button too), but > >>> with a rather lighter colour? I agree, something akin to the > >>> contrast the Edit Toolbar buttons have would be good. > >> > >> Done, using same color as the border of the toolbars. For the > >> title popup menu and mute/solo buttons, that makes it look like > >> the bottom bevel is bigger than the other 3 bevels, but that's > >> true in the toolbars, too. > >> > >> This currently does restore a line above the sync-lock icon, but > >> I'll fix that after we decide on Steve's suggestion (below). > >> > >>>> re the clock icon in the track panel. It has slightly low > >>>> contrast, a bit more pitch black might be helpful. > >> > >> I purposely did not do that because it is an indicator, and > >> because it needs to be anti-aliased. Pitch black would be very > >> jagged at 12x12. > >> > >>> I like the look of the icon in the Track Panel. It doesn't seem > >>> quite correct in the waveform yet. > >> > >> De gustibus non disputandum. I like the one in the waveform much > >> better. Can't get very accurate in the 12x12 pixel icon, so I > >> couldn't make it look as much like my very beautiful (!) tiles > >> as I wanted. > >> > >> I didn't give the proviso Al did, but I am also not a graphic > >> artist. Just wanted to get rid of the chain-link fence look, and > >> finish up this feature. If any of you can do better, please > >> submit the images -- that is not a dare, it's just not a good > >> use of my skills for me to do it. > >> > >> If anybody's going to try it: the icon is 12x12, the tile is > >> 27x27, and the button is 20x20, and needs enabled and disabled > >> versions. Al did the chain-link images purely with the alpha > >> channel. Not sure why. Mine have non-zero gray values in the > >> RGB channels, too, e.g., shades of "Audacity blue" for the > >> clock hands. > >> > >> In the meantime, I've added the button images, based on the > >> tiles. > >> > >> > >> I'd love it if we could get a graphic artist to redo *many* of > >> our amateurish-looking buttons... and we could agree on them! > >> :-) > >> > >> Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced > >> with existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only > >> the Transport buttons are good looking. Do we want to > >> prioritize a slightly newer look for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? > >> I vote yes, especially for readily available replacement > >> images. > >> > >>> As well as it being slightly low contrast, > >> > >> That is intentional. It's an overlay, not content. > >> > >>> the "rim" > >>> > >>> that surrounds the clock "looks" thicker than (but lighter > >>> than) the clock itself. > >> > >> There's no distinction of a "rim". I intentionally used a brush > >> in The GIMP so the edges fade on the inside and outside of the > >> circle. > >> > >>> The rim seems thicker at the bottom too (it appears to have > >>> light > >>> > >>> grey shading in the bottom half of the clock face on my > >>> monitor). > >> > >> Possibly, as I was using a brush, but I think the impression > >> you're getting is because the hands are darker, so make their > >> background look lighter than the bottom half of the circle. > >> > >> And if it's not even all around, that's probably good, as it > >> makes it less two-dimensional. > >> > >>> The clock tiles also looks a bit like a letter V in a circle. > >> > >> My favorite letter! But I disagree. Nothing on a clock face > >> looks like a V because the hands are different lengths. > >> Clearly, the hour hand is on the right. That's why you say > >> "five/ten to" two, below. > >> > >> My thinking was that both hands should be up, so it's not a > >> frown or droopy mustache. 10:05, 10:10 and 11:05 all look like > >> a check mark in a circle. It wasn't arbitrary. I thought about > >> those before I did it. > >> > >>> Maybe it would > >>> > >>> be a bit better if the "time" was closer to a quarter to two? > >>> It looks a bit like "five to" in the tiles and "ten to" in the > >>> Track Panel - is it an illusion? > >> > >> It's due to the different resolutions. > >> > >> I think any of the quarter-hour positions, for either hand, make > >> it look less like a clock and more like a pie chart. :-) > >> > >>> So for me, more space between the clock tiles, > >> > >> Interesting. There's already more space between the clock tiles > >> than there were for the chain links, i.e., the image is a > >> smaller part of the tile. > >> > >>> with a slightly, darker > >>> > >>> thinner rim would help. > >> > >> I disagree. The color is very similar to the chain links tiles. > >> Should be light, and somewhat fuzzy, as an overlay, so it > >> doesn't appear to be a series of objects/controls, or content > >> of the track. > >> > >> On 9/13/2010 9:15 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > >>> The link icon on track panel is clearly not a button now (which > >>> is good), and I like that you can click on it to select the > >>> track when the track is collapsed. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >>> However when SyncLock is off and the track is > >>> > >>> minimised, there is a tiny sliver between the track name and > >>> the expand button, which if clicked on with the accuracy of a > >>> surgeon it is possible to select the track without expanding > >>> it. > >> > >> I think that was true prior to my recent changes, and is an > >> off-by-one error in the original code. > >> > >>> My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track > >>> icon disappears but the track expand button does not grow to > >>> fill the space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a > >>> space that the user can click on when the track is minimised. > >>> > >>> [and Martyn's +1] > >> > >> I think it looks odd to have the minimize button > >> "left-justified" when nothing is to its right. How about > >> shrinking the minimize button on the left, too, leaving a blank > >> that's the size of the icon on both sides of the minimize > >> button when sync-lock is off, and putting the icon to its right > >> (as currently) when sync-lock is on? > >> > >>> Regarding the icon / tiles, I'm not overly concerned about what > >>> the graphic is, but using a literal representation of a clock > >>> would tend to invite the question of whether there is any > >>> significance to 1:55. > >> > >> That would be true of any time we choose. > >> > >>> As it represents "synchronization" rather than "time", perhaps > >>> something a bit less literal would convey the meaning more > >>> clearly, for > >> > >> example:http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=synchronize&tbs=isch:1, > >> isz > >> > >> :i&biw=1366&bih=549 > >> > >> Those images imply very different meanings of "synchronize", > >> imo. They mean "make these two different storage items contain > >> the same latest superset." The world/folder ones imply > >> local-to-distant. The circling arrows more often have the > >> meaning of "refresh" > >> (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&biw=983&bih=634&tbs=isch% > >> 3A1% 2Cisz%3Ai&sa=1&q=refresh+icon). And the gear image usually > >> means "settings/preferences", so doesn't really even belong in > >> the group, regardless of showing up in a Google search result. > >> > >> So, I think any of those would be misleading, as we mean, "lock > >> these tracks together on the timeline". "Sync-Lock", not > >> "Synchronize". > >> > >> - Vaughan |
|
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2010-09-19 21:59:34
|
Personally I prefer the more dense version - I find it easier to see the boundaries. On a closely related issue, I've been making some alternative graphics for the sync-lock button but I can't work out how to put them into Audacity. I'd quite like to see it for real before submitting my suggestions, but if not I could post a mock-up somewhere. Steve On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Al Dimond <bus...@gm...> wrote: > On Monday, September 13, 2010 23:51:07 Vaughan Johnson wrote: >> Great. Go for it! Thx, V >> > > I've tried some different things and these are the ones that are > reasonable. First, tiles with 45-degree pattern. > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-1.png > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-2.png > > Unfortunately this one is somewhat more dense than the original. I > think it's too dense... > > Second, a tilted-square grid: > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles-tilt1.png > > This one required some code changes (I could have done it without code > changes and a 70x70 tile, but this way it's easier to adjust -- I can > make the tiles slightly more or less dense without having to change > the graphics). It satisfies my design constraint and reduces density, > so I'm pretty happy with it. > > - Al > >> On 9/13/2010 11:40 PM, Al Dimond wrote: >> > I'm going to top-post this -- it's related to this conversation >> > but doesn't really respond to any specific points. One >> > deliberate feature of the chain-link images was that they were >> > diagonal. This means you can't draw a vertical or horizontal >> > line that doesn't intersect part of the graphic. >> > >> > One possible arrangement would have a square tile with a clock in >> > the middle and a quarter-clock at each corner. Another is a >> > hexagonal arrangement: tiles are rectangular, about 1xsqrt(3); >> > clocks are drawn as semicircles drawn in the middle of each >> > edge. Using either technique you shouldn't have to pack them all >> > that closely to cover every vertical/horizontal line, but the >> > tiles will have to expand to keep size of clocks the same. >> > >> > With any luck I'll have time to try these this coming weekend (my >> > week is swamped), but I thought I'd throw them out there in case >> > anyone has a chance before that, or in case I don't have time >> > over the weekend. >> > >> > - Al >> > >> > On Monday, September 13, 2010 22:57:04 Vaughan Johnson wrote: >> >> On 9/13/2010 7:04 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: >> >>> | From David Bailes <drb...@go...> >> >>> | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:54:38 +0100 >> >>>> >> >>>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Vaughan Johnson >> >>>> >> >>>> <va...@au...> wrote: >> >>>>> Please, David and Gale, check the latest. >> >>>> >> >>>> re the mute and solo buttons, I think it would be a bit >> >>>> clearer that they were buttons if there were horizontal grey >> >>>> lines immediately above and below them, as in the edit >> >>>> toolbar. With no difference in color betweent the buttons and >> >>>> the background, the current edges have fairly low contrast. >> >>> >> >>> Wouldn't it be better if we could put the dark border back (so >> >>> affecting the track menu button and minimise button too), but >> >>> with a rather lighter colour? I agree, something akin to the >> >>> contrast the Edit Toolbar buttons have would be good. >> >> >> >> Done, using same color as the border of the toolbars. For the >> >> title popup menu and mute/solo buttons, that makes it look like >> >> the bottom bevel is bigger than the other 3 bevels, but that's >> >> true in the toolbars, too. >> >> >> >> This currently does restore a line above the sync-lock icon, but >> >> I'll fix that after we decide on Steve's suggestion (below). >> >> >> >>>> re the clock icon in the track panel. It has slightly low >> >>>> contrast, a bit more pitch black might be helpful. >> >> >> >> I purposely did not do that because it is an indicator, and >> >> because it needs to be anti-aliased. Pitch black would be very >> >> jagged at 12x12. >> >> >> >>> I like the look of the icon in the Track Panel. It doesn't seem >> >>> quite correct in the waveform yet. >> >> >> >> De gustibus non disputandum. I like the one in the waveform much >> >> better. Can't get very accurate in the 12x12 pixel icon, so I >> >> couldn't make it look as much like my very beautiful (!) tiles >> >> as I wanted. >> >> >> >> I didn't give the proviso Al did, but I am also not a graphic >> >> artist. Just wanted to get rid of the chain-link fence look, and >> >> finish up this feature. If any of you can do better, please >> >> submit the images -- that is not a dare, it's just not a good >> >> use of my skills for me to do it. >> >> >> >> If anybody's going to try it: the icon is 12x12, the tile is >> >> 27x27, and the button is 20x20, and needs enabled and disabled >> >> versions. Al did the chain-link images purely with the alpha >> >> channel. Not sure why. Mine have non-zero gray values in the >> >> RGB channels, too, e.g., shades of "Audacity blue" for the >> >> clock hands. >> >> >> >> In the meantime, I've added the button images, based on the >> >> tiles. >> >> >> >> >> >> I'd love it if we could get a graphic artist to redo *many* of >> >> our amateurish-looking buttons... and we could agree on them! >> >> :-) >> >> >> >> Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced >> >> with existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only >> >> the Transport buttons are good looking. Do we want to >> >> prioritize a slightly newer look for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? >> >> I vote yes, especially for readily available replacement >> >> images. >> >> >> >>> As well as it being slightly low contrast, >> >> >> >> That is intentional. It's an overlay, not content. >> >> >> >>> the "rim" >> >>> >> >>> that surrounds the clock "looks" thicker than (but lighter >> >>> than) the clock itself. >> >> >> >> There's no distinction of a "rim". I intentionally used a brush >> >> in The GIMP so the edges fade on the inside and outside of the >> >> circle. >> >> >> >>> The rim seems thicker at the bottom too (it appears to have >> >>> light >> >>> >> >>> grey shading in the bottom half of the clock face on my >> >>> monitor). >> >> >> >> Possibly, as I was using a brush, but I think the impression >> >> you're getting is because the hands are darker, so make their >> >> background look lighter than the bottom half of the circle. >> >> >> >> And if it's not even all around, that's probably good, as it >> >> makes it less two-dimensional. >> >> >> >>> The clock tiles also looks a bit like a letter V in a circle. >> >> >> >> My favorite letter! But I disagree. Nothing on a clock face >> >> looks like a V because the hands are different lengths. >> >> Clearly, the hour hand is on the right. That's why you say >> >> "five/ten to" two, below. >> >> >> >> My thinking was that both hands should be up, so it's not a >> >> frown or droopy mustache. 10:05, 10:10 and 11:05 all look like >> >> a check mark in a circle. It wasn't arbitrary. I thought about >> >> those before I did it. >> >> >> >>> Maybe it would >> >>> >> >>> be a bit better if the "time" was closer to a quarter to two? >> >>> It looks a bit like "five to" in the tiles and "ten to" in the >> >>> Track Panel - is it an illusion? >> >> >> >> It's due to the different resolutions. >> >> >> >> I think any of the quarter-hour positions, for either hand, make >> >> it look less like a clock and more like a pie chart. :-) >> >> >> >>> So for me, more space between the clock tiles, >> >> >> >> Interesting. There's already more space between the clock tiles >> >> than there were for the chain links, i.e., the image is a >> >> smaller part of the tile. >> >> >> >>> with a slightly, darker >> >>> >> >>> thinner rim would help. >> >> >> >> I disagree. The color is very similar to the chain links tiles. >> >> Should be light, and somewhat fuzzy, as an overlay, so it >> >> doesn't appear to be a series of objects/controls, or content >> >> of the track. >> >> >> >> On 9/13/2010 9:15 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >> >>> The link icon on track panel is clearly not a button now (which >> >>> is good), and I like that you can click on it to select the >> >>> track when the track is collapsed. >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>> However when SyncLock is off and the track is >> >>> >> >>> minimised, there is a tiny sliver between the track name and >> >>> the expand button, which if clicked on with the accuracy of a >> >>> surgeon it is possible to select the track without expanding >> >>> it. >> >> >> >> I think that was true prior to my recent changes, and is an >> >> off-by-one error in the original code. >> >> >> >>> My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track >> >>> icon disappears but the track expand button does not grow to >> >>> fill the space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a >> >>> space that the user can click on when the track is minimised. >> >>> >> >>> [and Martyn's +1] >> >> >> >> I think it looks odd to have the minimize button >> >> "left-justified" when nothing is to its right. How about >> >> shrinking the minimize button on the left, too, leaving a blank >> >> that's the size of the icon on both sides of the minimize >> >> button when sync-lock is off, and putting the icon to its right >> >> (as currently) when sync-lock is on? >> >> >> >>> Regarding the icon / tiles, I'm not overly concerned about what >> >>> the graphic is, but using a literal representation of a clock >> >>> would tend to invite the question of whether there is any >> >>> significance to 1:55. >> >> >> >> That would be true of any time we choose. >> >> >> >>> As it represents "synchronization" rather than "time", perhaps >> >>> something a bit less literal would convey the meaning more >> >>> clearly, for >> >> >> >> example:http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=synchronize&tbs=isch:1, >> >> isz >> >> >> >> :i&biw=1366&bih=549 >> >> >> >> Those images imply very different meanings of "synchronize", >> >> imo. They mean "make these two different storage items contain >> >> the same latest superset." The world/folder ones imply >> >> local-to-distant. The circling arrows more often have the >> >> meaning of "refresh" >> >> (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&biw=983&bih=634&tbs=isch% >> >> 3A1% 2Cisz%3Ai&sa=1&q=refresh+icon). And the gear image usually >> >> means "settings/preferences", so doesn't really even belong in >> >> the group, regardless of showing up in a Google search result. >> >> >> >> So, I think any of those would be misleading, as we mean, "lock >> >> these tracks together on the timeline". "Sync-Lock", not >> >> "Synchronize". >> >> >> >> - Vaughan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > |
|
From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2010-09-20 01:00:06
|
I like the tilted square. Kind of unusual that the diagonals are not at 45 degrees -- but they look like "ten minutes to one" so counterbalance the "five minutes to two" clock hands in the current image! +1. - V On 9/19/2010 2:06 PM, Al Dimond wrote: > On Monday, September 13, 2010 23:51:07 Vaughan Johnson wrote: >> Great. Go for it! Thx, V >> > > I've tried some different things and these are the ones that are > reasonable. First, tiles with 45-degree pattern. > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-1.png > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-2.png > > Unfortunately this one is somewhat more dense than the original. I > think it's too dense... > > Second, a tilted-square grid: > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles-tilt1.png > > This one required some code changes (I could have done it without code > changes and a 70x70 tile, but this way it's easier to adjust -- I can > make the tiles slightly more or less dense without having to change > the graphics). It satisfies my design constraint and reduces density, > so I'm pretty happy with it. > > - Al > >> On 9/13/2010 11:40 PM, Al Dimond wrote: >>> I'm going to top-post this -- it's related to this conversation >>> but doesn't really respond to any specific points. One >>> deliberate feature of the chain-link images was that they were >>> diagonal. This means you can't draw a vertical or horizontal >>> line that doesn't intersect part of the graphic. >>> >>> One possible arrangement would have a square tile with a clock in >>> the middle and a quarter-clock at each corner. Another is a >>> hexagonal arrangement: tiles are rectangular, about 1xsqrt(3); >>> clocks are drawn as semicircles drawn in the middle of each >>> edge. Using either technique you shouldn't have to pack them all >>> that closely to cover every vertical/horizontal line, but the >>> tiles will have to expand to keep size of clocks the same. >>> >>> With any luck I'll have time to try these this coming weekend (my >>> week is swamped), but I thought I'd throw them out there in case >>> anyone has a chance before that, or in case I don't have time >>> over the weekend. >>> >>> - Al >>> >>> On Monday, September 13, 2010 22:57:04 Vaughan Johnson wrote: >>>> On 9/13/2010 7:04 AM, Gale Andrews wrote: >>>>> | From David Bailes <drb...@go...> >>>>> | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:54:38 +0100 >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Vaughan Johnson >>>>>> >>>>>> <va...@au...> wrote: >>>>>>> Please, David and Gale, check the latest. >>>>>> >>>>>> re the mute and solo buttons, I think it would be a bit >>>>>> clearer that they were buttons if there were horizontal grey >>>>>> lines immediately above and below them, as in the edit >>>>>> toolbar. With no difference in color betweent the buttons and >>>>>> the background, the current edges have fairly low contrast. >>>>> >>>>> Wouldn't it be better if we could put the dark border back (so >>>>> affecting the track menu button and minimise button too), but >>>>> with a rather lighter colour? I agree, something akin to the >>>>> contrast the Edit Toolbar buttons have would be good. >>>> >>>> Done, using same color as the border of the toolbars. For the >>>> title popup menu and mute/solo buttons, that makes it look like >>>> the bottom bevel is bigger than the other 3 bevels, but that's >>>> true in the toolbars, too. >>>> >>>> This currently does restore a line above the sync-lock icon, but >>>> I'll fix that after we decide on Steve's suggestion (below). >>>> >>>>>> re the clock icon in the track panel. It has slightly low >>>>>> contrast, a bit more pitch black might be helpful. >>>> >>>> I purposely did not do that because it is an indicator, and >>>> because it needs to be anti-aliased. Pitch black would be very >>>> jagged at 12x12. >>>> >>>>> I like the look of the icon in the Track Panel. It doesn't seem >>>>> quite correct in the waveform yet. >>>> >>>> De gustibus non disputandum. I like the one in the waveform much >>>> better. Can't get very accurate in the 12x12 pixel icon, so I >>>> couldn't make it look as much like my very beautiful (!) tiles >>>> as I wanted. >>>> >>>> I didn't give the proviso Al did, but I am also not a graphic >>>> artist. Just wanted to get rid of the chain-link fence look, and >>>> finish up this feature. If any of you can do better, please >>>> submit the images -- that is not a dare, it's just not a good >>>> use of my skills for me to do it. >>>> >>>> If anybody's going to try it: the icon is 12x12, the tile is >>>> 27x27, and the button is 20x20, and needs enabled and disabled >>>> versions. Al did the chain-link images purely with the alpha >>>> channel. Not sure why. Mine have non-zero gray values in the >>>> RGB channels, too, e.g., shades of "Audacity blue" for the >>>> clock hands. >>>> >>>> In the meantime, I've added the button images, based on the >>>> tiles. >>>> >>>> >>>> I'd love it if we could get a graphic artist to redo *many* of >>>> our amateurish-looking buttons... and we could agree on them! >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> Some of them (e.g., mic and speaker) could be readily replaced >>>> with existing OSS or CC-licensed images. Really, I think only >>>> the Transport buttons are good looking. Do we want to >>>> prioritize a slightly newer look for 2.0 as well as bug fixing? >>>> I vote yes, especially for readily available replacement >>>> images. >>>> >>>>> As well as it being slightly low contrast, >>>> >>>> That is intentional. It's an overlay, not content. >>>> >>>>> the "rim" >>>>> >>>>> that surrounds the clock "looks" thicker than (but lighter >>>>> than) the clock itself. >>>> >>>> There's no distinction of a "rim". I intentionally used a brush >>>> in The GIMP so the edges fade on the inside and outside of the >>>> circle. >>>> >>>>> The rim seems thicker at the bottom too (it appears to have >>>>> light >>>>> >>>>> grey shading in the bottom half of the clock face on my >>>>> monitor). >>>> >>>> Possibly, as I was using a brush, but I think the impression >>>> you're getting is because the hands are darker, so make their >>>> background look lighter than the bottom half of the circle. >>>> >>>> And if it's not even all around, that's probably good, as it >>>> makes it less two-dimensional. >>>> >>>>> The clock tiles also looks a bit like a letter V in a circle. >>>> >>>> My favorite letter! But I disagree. Nothing on a clock face >>>> looks like a V because the hands are different lengths. >>>> Clearly, the hour hand is on the right. That's why you say >>>> "five/ten to" two, below. >>>> >>>> My thinking was that both hands should be up, so it's not a >>>> frown or droopy mustache. 10:05, 10:10 and 11:05 all look like >>>> a check mark in a circle. It wasn't arbitrary. I thought about >>>> those before I did it. >>>> >>>>> Maybe it would >>>>> >>>>> be a bit better if the "time" was closer to a quarter to two? >>>>> It looks a bit like "five to" in the tiles and "ten to" in the >>>>> Track Panel - is it an illusion? >>>> >>>> It's due to the different resolutions. >>>> >>>> I think any of the quarter-hour positions, for either hand, make >>>> it look less like a clock and more like a pie chart. :-) >>>> >>>>> So for me, more space between the clock tiles, >>>> >>>> Interesting. There's already more space between the clock tiles >>>> than there were for the chain links, i.e., the image is a >>>> smaller part of the tile. >>>> >>>>> with a slightly, darker >>>>> >>>>> thinner rim would help. >>>> >>>> I disagree. The color is very similar to the chain links tiles. >>>> Should be light, and somewhat fuzzy, as an overlay, so it >>>> doesn't appear to be a series of objects/controls, or content >>>> of the track. >>>> >>>> On 9/13/2010 9:15 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>>>> The link icon on track panel is clearly not a button now (which >>>>> is good), and I like that you can click on it to select the >>>>> track when the track is collapsed. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>>> However when SyncLock is off and the track is >>>>> >>>>> minimised, there is a tiny sliver between the track name and >>>>> the expand button, which if clicked on with the accuracy of a >>>>> surgeon it is possible to select the track without expanding >>>>> it. >>>> >>>> I think that was true prior to my recent changes, and is an >>>> off-by-one error in the original code. >>>> >>>>> My preference would be that when SyncLock is off, the track >>>>> icon disappears but the track expand button does not grow to >>>>> fill the space, but that the space remains empty, leaving a >>>>> space that the user can click on when the track is minimised. >>>>> >>>>> [and Martyn's +1] >>>> >>>> I think it looks odd to have the minimize button >>>> "left-justified" when nothing is to its right. How about >>>> shrinking the minimize button on the left, too, leaving a blank >>>> that's the size of the icon on both sides of the minimize >>>> button when sync-lock is off, and putting the icon to its right >>>> (as currently) when sync-lock is on? >>>> >>>>> Regarding the icon / tiles, I'm not overly concerned about what >>>>> the graphic is, but using a literal representation of a clock >>>>> would tend to invite the question of whether there is any >>>>> significance to 1:55. >>>> >>>> That would be true of any time we choose. >>>> >>>>> As it represents "synchronization" rather than "time", perhaps >>>>> something a bit less literal would convey the meaning more >>>>> clearly, for >>>> >>>> example:http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=synchronize&tbs=isch:1, >>>> isz >>>> >>>> :i&biw=1366&bih=549 >>>> >>>> Those images imply very different meanings of "synchronize", >>>> imo. They mean "make these two different storage items contain >>>> the same latest superset." The world/folder ones imply >>>> local-to-distant. The circling arrows more often have the >>>> meaning of "refresh" >>>> (http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&biw=983&bih=634&tbs=isch% >>>> 3A1% 2Cisz%3Ai&sa=1&q=refresh+icon). And the gear image usually >>>> means "settings/preferences", so doesn't really even belong in >>>> the group, regardless of showing up in a Google search result. >>>> >>>> So, I think any of those would be misleading, as we mean, "lock >>>> these tracks together on the timeline". "Sync-Lock", not >>>> "Synchronize". >>>> >>>> - Vaughan > |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-09-20 01:55:33
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| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:59:26 +0100 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > Personally I prefer the more dense version - I find it easier to see > the boundaries. That's exactly why I suggested marking the boundaries with a dotted line (while still retaining less densely spaced tiles, so you are still aware of the selection if it's very wide). The dotted line could be either the same colour as the body of the clock tile, or the colour of the clock hands, and the tiles are within that boundary. It would make short selections much easier to see/comfortable to look at. It would also provide a way to resolve bug 222 without just assuming it's invalid: http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222 Of course the dotted line looks "different" to the normal selection but I think that's to the good if it's subtle. I agree Al's "denser" variant is too dense (try it with one quiet audio track and a region label selected underneath, vertically fitted). I think the tilted square looks slightly less "mechanistic" anyway - a bit more comforting, like real "wallpaper". > On a closely related issue, I've been making some alternative graphics > for the sync-lock button but I can't work out how to put them into > Audacity. I'd quite like to see it for real before submitting my See: http://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/detail?r=10665 http://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/detail?r=10673 Gale > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Al Dimond > <bus...@gm...> wrote: > > On Monday, September 13, 2010 23:51:07 Vaughan Johnson wrote: > >> Great. Go for it! Thx, V > >> > > > > I've tried some different things and these are the ones that are > > reasonable. First, tiles with 45-degree pattern. > > > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-1.png > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-2.png > > > > Unfortunately this one is somewhat more dense than the original. I > > think it's too dense... > > > > Second, a tilted-square grid: > > > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles-tilt1.png > > > > This one required some code changes (I could have done it without code > > changes and a 70x70 tile, but this way it's easier to adjust -- I can > > make the tiles slightly more or less dense without having to change > > the graphics). It satisfies my design constraint and reduces density, > > so I'm pretty happy with it. > > > > - Al |
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From: Al D. <bus...@gm...> - 2010-09-20 05:12:14
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On Sunday, September 19, 2010 18:55:24 Gale Andrews wrote: > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:59:26 +0100 > | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > | > > Personally I prefer the more dense version - I find it easier to > > see the boundaries. > > That's exactly why I suggested marking the boundaries with a dotted > line (while still retaining less densely spaced tiles, so you are > still aware of the selection if it's very wide). The dotted line > could be either the same colour as the body of the clock tile, or > the colour of the clock hands, and the tiles are within that > boundary. It would make short selections much easier to > see/comfortable to look at. It would also provide a way to resolve > bug 222 without just assuming it's invalid: > http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222 > You've brought this suggestion up a few times and I've always liked it in principle. There are be some challenges and design choices, and I'm pretty busy, but I'll try to have something next weekend. > Of course the dotted line looks "different" to the normal selection > but I think that's to the good if it's subtle. > I'm thinking maybe we could draw the dotted line subtly over the waveform, and then we could add a similar solid line for the real selection -- sometimes with very loud tracks the real selection is hard to see. An alpha-blended selection would be really good... probably post-2.0, along with many other waveform-drawing reforms (surely in 2010 we have the processing power to do better than we do now). - Al > I agree Al's "denser" variant is too dense (try it with one quiet > audio track and a region label selected underneath, vertically > fitted). > > I think the tilted square looks slightly less "mechanistic" anyway > - a bit more comforting, like real "wallpaper". > > > On a closely related issue, I've been making some alternative > > graphics for the sync-lock button but I can't work out how to > > put them into Audacity. I'd quite like to see it for real before > > submitting my > > See: > http://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/detail?r=10665 > http://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/detail?r=10673 > > > > Gale > > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Al Dimond > > > > <bus...@gm...> wrote: > > > On Monday, September 13, 2010 23:51:07 Vaughan Johnson wrote: > > >> Great. Go for it! Thx, V > > > > > > I've tried some different things and these are the ones that > > > are reasonable. First, tiles with 45-degree pattern. > > > > > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-1.png > > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-2.png > > > > > > Unfortunately this one is somewhat more dense than the > > > original. I think it's too dense... > > > > > > Second, a tilted-square grid: > > > > > > http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles-tilt1.png > > > > > > This one required some code changes (I could have done it > > > without code changes and a 70x70 tile, but this way it's > > > easier to adjust -- I can make the tiles slightly more or less > > > dense without having to change the graphics). It satisfies my > > > design constraint and reduces density, so I'm pretty happy > > > with it. > > > > > > - Al > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual > appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment > and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-09-20 09:04:17
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| From Al Dimond <bus...@gm...> | Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:11:59 -0700 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > On Sunday, September 19, 2010 18:55:24 Gale Andrews wrote: > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > > | Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:59:26 +0100 > > | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > > | > > > Personally I prefer the more dense version - I find it easier to > > > see the boundaries. > > > > That's exactly why I suggested marking the boundaries with a dotted > > line (while still retaining less densely spaced tiles, so you are > > still aware of the selection if it's very wide). The dotted line > > could be either the same colour as the body of the clock tile, or > > the colour of the clock hands, and the tiles are within that > > boundary. It would make short selections much easier to > > see/comfortable to look at. It would also provide a way to resolve > > bug 222 without just assuming it's invalid: > > http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222 > > > > You've brought this suggestion up a few times and I've always liked it > in principle. There are be some challenges and design choices, and I'm > pretty busy, but I'll try to have something next weekend. +1 here if others are OK with it. Thanks. > > Of course the dotted line looks "different" to the normal selection > > but I think that's to the good if it's subtle. > > > > I'm thinking maybe we could draw the dotted line subtly over the > waveform, and then we could add a similar solid line for the real > selection -- sometimes with very loud tracks the real selection is > hard to see. I was envisaging the dotted line would be behind the waveform as the selection is, but I'd like to see what it looked if drawn over. We'd want to be sure it was distinct from clip borders and split lines. To make it clear that loud tracks are selected I still favour longer term drawing the selection itself over the waveform, with different colours for selection-over-waveform, selection-over-background and selection-over-whitespace. But a border for both selections might help meantime. Thanks Gale |
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From: Bill W. <bi...@go...> - 2010-10-15 15:40:45
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The Mac nightly build Audacity 1.3.13-alpha-Oct 15 2010 (Unicode) still has the "non-tilted" sync-lock background. I'd like to get started on the documentation of the sync-lock feature, but need to know when the final version of the background is settled. -- Bill On 20-Sep-10, at 1:11 AM, Al Dimond wrote: > On Sunday, September 19, 2010 18:55:24 Gale Andrews wrote: >> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >> | Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:59:26 +0100 >> | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look >> | >>> Personally I prefer the more dense version - I find it easier to >>> see the boundaries. >> >> That's exactly why I suggested marking the boundaries with a dotted >> line (while still retaining less densely spaced tiles, so you are >> still aware of the selection if it's very wide). The dotted line >> could be either the same colour as the body of the clock tile, or >> the colour of the clock hands, and the tiles are within that >> boundary. It would make short selections much easier to >> see/comfortable to look at. It would also provide a way to resolve >> bug 222 without just assuming it's invalid: >> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222 >> > > You've brought this suggestion up a few times and I've always liked it > in principle. There are be some challenges and design choices, and I'm > pretty busy, but I'll try to have something next weekend. > >> Of course the dotted line looks "different" to the normal selection >> but I think that's to the good if it's subtle. >> > > I'm thinking maybe we could draw the dotted line subtly over the > waveform, and then we could add a similar solid line for the real > selection -- sometimes with very loud tracks the real selection is > hard to see. An alpha-blended selection would be really good... > probably post-2.0, along with many other waveform-drawing reforms > (surely in 2010 we have the processing power to do better than we do > now). > > - Al > >> I agree Al's "denser" variant is too dense (try it with one quiet >> audio track and a region label selected underneath, vertically >> fitted). >> >> I think the tilted square looks slightly less "mechanistic" anyway >> - a bit more comforting, like real "wallpaper". >> >>> On a closely related issue, I've been making some alternative >>> graphics for the sync-lock button but I can't work out how to >>> put them into Audacity. I'd quite like to see it for real before >>> submitting my >> >> See: >> http://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/detail?r=10665 >> http://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/detail?r=10673 >> >> >> >> Gale >> >>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Al Dimond >>> >>> <bus...@gm...> wrote: >>>> On Monday, September 13, 2010 23:51:07 Vaughan Johnson wrote: >>>>> Great. Go for it! Thx, V >>>> >>>> I've tried some different things and these are the ones that >>>> are reasonable. First, tiles with 45-degree pattern. >>>> >>>> http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-1.png >>>> http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-2.png >>>> >>>> Unfortunately this one is somewhat more dense than the >>>> original. I think it's too dense... >>>> >>>> Second, a tilted-square grid: >>>> >>>> http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles-tilt1.png >>>> >>>> This one required some code changes (I could have done it >>>> without code changes and a 70x70 tile, but this way it's >>>> easier to adjust -- I can make the tiles slightly more or less >>>> dense without having to change the graphics). It satisfies my >>>> design constraint and reduces density, so I'm pretty happy >>>> with it. >>>> >>>> - Al >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual >> appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment >> and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-10-16 17:42:24
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| From Bill Wharrie <bi...@go...> | Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:40:36 -0400 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > The Mac nightly build Audacity 1.3.13-alpha-Oct 15 2010 (Unicode) > still has the "non-tilted" sync-lock background. That's because Al hasn't had time to work on the tiles alignment or the suggested dotted line for the Sync-Locked selection. So there is nothing missing from the Mac 1.3.13 that exists on the other platforms. > I'd like to get started on the documentation of the sync-lock feature, > but need to know when the final version of the background is settled. Thanks for volunteering. Is it possible though to work with images of the tiles and Sync-Locked selections as they are now? This ought to be documented in time for 1.3.13 Beta being released, and the look of Sync-Lock may not necessarily be finished by then. If you want to keep up with code commits, you can join the audacity-svn Google group: http://groups.google.com/group/audacity-svn Gale > On 20-Sep-10, at 1:11 AM, Al Dimond wrote: > > > On Sunday, September 19, 2010 18:55:24 Gale Andrews wrote: > >> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > >> | Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:59:26 +0100 > >> | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > >> | > >>> Personally I prefer the more dense version - I find it easier to > >>> see the boundaries. > >> > >> That's exactly why I suggested marking the boundaries with a dotted > >> line (while still retaining less densely spaced tiles, so you are > >> still aware of the selection if it's very wide). The dotted line > >> could be either the same colour as the body of the clock tile, or > >> the colour of the clock hands, and the tiles are within that > >> boundary. It would make short selections much easier to > >> see/comfortable to look at. It would also provide a way to resolve > >> bug 222 without just assuming it's invalid: > >> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222 > >> > > > > You've brought this suggestion up a few times and I've always liked it > > in principle. There are be some challenges and design choices, and I'm > > pretty busy, but I'll try to have something next weekend. > > > >> Of course the dotted line looks "different" to the normal selection > >> but I think that's to the good if it's subtle. > >> > > > > I'm thinking maybe we could draw the dotted line subtly over the > > waveform, and then we could add a similar solid line for the real > > selection -- sometimes with very loud tracks the real selection is > > hard to see. An alpha-blended selection would be really good... > > probably post-2.0, along with many other waveform-drawing reforms > > (surely in 2010 we have the processing power to do better than we do > > now). > > > > - Al > > > >> I agree Al's "denser" variant is too dense (try it with one quiet > >> audio track and a region label selected underneath, vertically > >> fitted). > >> > >> I think the tilted square looks slightly less "mechanistic" anyway > >> - a bit more comforting, like real "wallpaper". > >> > >>> On a closely related issue, I've been making some alternative > >>> graphics for the sync-lock button but I can't work out how to > >>> put them into Audacity. I'd quite like to see it for real before > >>> submitting my > >> > >> See: > >> http://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/detail?r=10665 > >> http://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/detail?r=10673 > >> > >> > >> > >> Gale > >> > >>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Al Dimond > >>> > >>> <bus...@gm...> wrote: > >>>> On Monday, September 13, 2010 23:51:07 Vaughan Johnson wrote: > >>>>> Great. Go for it! Thx, V > >>>> > >>>> I've tried some different things and these are the ones that > >>>> are reasonable. First, tiles with 45-degree pattern. > >>>> > >>>> http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-1.png > >>>> http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles45-2.png > >>>> > >>>> Unfortunately this one is somewhat more dense than the > >>>> original. I think it's too dense... > >>>> > >>>> Second, a tilted-square grid: > >>>> > >>>> http://aldimond.users.sourceforge.net/clocktiles-tilt1.png > >>>> > >>>> This one required some code changes (I could have done it > >>>> without code changes and a 70x70 tile, but this way it's > >>>> easier to adjust -- I can make the tiles slightly more or less > >>>> dense without having to change the graphics). It satisfies my > >>>> design constraint and reduces density, so I'm pretty happy > >>>> with it. > >>>> > >>>> - Al |
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From: Bill W. <bi...@go...> - 2010-10-17 04:26:35
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On 16-Oct-10, at 1:42 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > | From Bill Wharrie <bi...@go...> > | Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:40:36 -0400 > | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look >> The Mac nightly build Audacity 1.3.13-alpha-Oct 15 2010 (Unicode) >> still has the "non-tilted" sync-lock background. > > That's because Al hasn't had time to work on the tiles alignment or > the > suggested dotted line for the Sync-Locked selection. So there is > nothing > missing from the Mac 1.3.13 that exists on the other platforms. OK. I get a new nightly at least twice a week, so I'll just keep checking. > > >> I'd like to get started on the documentation of the sync-lock >> feature, >> but need to know when the final version of the background is settled. > > Thanks for volunteering. Is it possible though to work with images > of the tiles and Sync-Locked selections as they are now? This ought > to be documented in time for 1.3.13 Beta being released, and the look > of Sync-Lock may not necessarily be finished by then. Then I'll get started. I'll just make sure I save the project I use for the example images so I can redo them easily if and when the look changes. > > If you want to keep up with code commits, you can join the audacity- > svn > Google group: > http://groups.google.com/group/audacity-svn > Thanks, but I think I'll pass :-) -- Bill |
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From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2010-10-18 21:52:08
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On 10/16/2010 9:26 PM, Bill Wharrie wrote: > > On 16-Oct-10, at 1:42 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: > >> >> | From Bill Wharrie <bi...@go...> >> | Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:40:36 -0400 >> | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look >>> The Mac nightly build Audacity 1.3.13-alpha-Oct 15 2010 (Unicode) >>> still has the "non-tilted" sync-lock background. >> >> That's because Al hasn't had time to work on the tiles alignment or >> the >> suggested dotted line for the Sync-Locked selection. So there is >> nothing >> missing from the Mac 1.3.13 that exists on the other platforms. > > OK. I get a new nightly at least twice a week, so I'll just keep > checking. > Al has committed this change. - Vaughan |
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From: Martyn S. <mar...@gm...> - 2010-09-05 18:27:55
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+1 from me to Martyn On 19:59, Peter Sampson wrote: > James, > Certainly it's a +1 from me for synch-lock being _off _by default - > and for the button being visible > Peter. > Peter Sampson > Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780 > Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299 > > ... |
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2010-09-05 18:49:25
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"sync-lock is enabled, but "off" by default" +1 |
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From: Al D. <bus...@gm...> - 2010-09-06 02:07:39
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On Saturday, September 04, 2010 03:23:14 James Crook wrote: > Guys... > > We're expending a phenomenal amount of energy on the precise > details of the look of sync-lock. > > What we have right now for the look is not right, but the feature > works great (in as far as I have used it) in terms of what it > does. > > At some future date I believe we will actually remove the space > between sync-locked tracks so that the groupings will be clear > whether or not there are selections. Ultimately the track panel > is also going to move from being a list of tracks to being a tree > of tracks with ability to collapse/expand subtrees. That's not > going to happen any time soon. We'll need to already have some > space saving devices, e.g. making the info panels 'fly out'. At > the moment a tree would eat into the space on the left too much, > and besides which it is too much development work to do at this > juncture. > > What we have is an evolutionary step forward and it's good. > > > I think the link in the track info does look a bit much like a > button, and that is OK. Maybe at some future date we will think > of a way to use it as a button too. It might be cool if clicking on the lock selected all sync-locked tracks (same as the Edit->Select->In All Sync-Locked Tracks menu item). It could have a tool-tip like: "This track is sync-locked; click here to select all sync-locked tracks". Maybe in the case where the track is fully selected omit the first part. That might be too verbose. > I can live with the > 'stalag-9' effect of chain link fencing. It's not beautiful, but > it does the job. As far as I am concerned the look is now good > enough. > > The biggest single reason for caring about the precise look is that > if it is confusing to users that will increase 'support calls'. > My suggestion here is that we make sync-lock off by default for > the next few releases. We'll continue to get the support calls > about 'my labels aren't locked to my audio' which we reply with > with 'try the sync lock feature'. That way the people using it > are the early adopters, and if they are really too confused by it > they can switch it off again. We'll get feedback on it from > people who are using it, rather than people who accidentally > encounter it. It will help us a lot more work out what to do, and > may even bring in volunteers to actually do it. > > So, +1/-1 please for the sync-lock being off by default (but the > sync-lock button being visible in the toolbar) for the next few > releases. > Sounds good to me. - Al > > --James. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: > > Show off your parallel programming skills. > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-09-06 16:25:14
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[This got held for moderation because of the attached image, so I'll just send again with a link to the image to make things easier] See below. | From Al Dimond <bus...@gm...> | Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:07:25 -0700 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > On Saturday, September 04, 2010 03:23:14 James Crook wrote: > > I think the link in the track info does look a bit much like a > > button, and that is OK. Maybe at some future date we will think > > of a way to use it as a button too. > > It might be cool if clicking on the lock selected all sync-locked > tracks (same as the Edit->Select->In All Sync-Locked Tracks menu > item). It could have a tool-tip like: "This track is sync-locked; > click here to select all sync-locked tracks". Maybe in the case where > the track is fully selected omit the first part. That might be too > verbose. I'm for anything that clarifies the meaning of the icon (I think Vaughan said it has to be a button for us to have a tooltip), so on the whole I'd be +1 on making a button to do that. Omitting "This track is Sync-Locked" for a fully selected track might help the confusion some people have where Edit > Select > In All Sync-Locked Tracks also "appears" to select all tracks in the group (so makes them wrongly think the fully selected track was also "sync-locked"). Possible abbreviated wording: "[Sync-Locked track:] Click to select in all Sync-Locked tracks" (omit inside [ ] if fully selected). If fully selected, is there something terse we can say to describe what the track *is*? I can't think of anything non-verbose. Note with the current code I've found that if you click the "pseudo-button" for the sync-lock icon and the track is collapsed so that the "button" is over the gain or pan slider or the solo button, it operates it, and the slider tooltip appears in a very odd place (I was clicking the icon in the second audio track from the top in the image here: http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/ghost_tooltip.png Fortunately that's not a problem with the "minimise" button itself which only does what is intended. Gale |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-09-06 06:19:10
Attachments:
ghost_tooltip.png
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| From Al Dimond <bus...@gm...> | Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:07:25 -0700 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > On Saturday, September 04, 2010 03:23:14 James Crook wrote: > > I think the link in the track info does look a bit much like a > > button, and that is OK. Maybe at some future date we will think > > of a way to use it as a button too. > > It might be cool if clicking on the lock selected all sync-locked > tracks (same as the Edit->Select->In All Sync-Locked Tracks menu > item). It could have a tool-tip like: "This track is sync-locked; > click here to select all sync-locked tracks". Maybe in the case where > the track is fully selected omit the first part. That might be too > verbose. I'm for anything that clarifies the meaning of the icon (I think Vaughan said it has to be a button for us to have a tooltip), so on the whole I'd be +1 on making a button to do that. Omitting "This track is Sync-Locked" for a fully selected track might help the confusion some people have where Edit > Select > In All Sync-Locked Tracks also "appears" to select all tracks in the group (so makes them wrongly think the fully selected track was also "sync-locked"). Possible abbreviated wording: "[Sync-Locked track:] Click to select in all Sync-Locked tracks" (omit inside [ ] if fully selected). If fully selected, is there something terse we can say to describe what the track *is*? I can't think of anything non-verbose. Note with the current code I've found that if you do click the "pseudo-button" and the track is collapsed so that the "button" is over the gain or pan slider or the solo button, it operates it, and the slider tooltip appears in a very odd place (I was clicking the icon in the second audio track from the top in the attached). Fortunately that's not a problem with the collapse button itself which only does what is intended. Gale |
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2010-09-07 22:28:03
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On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 3:07 AM, Al Dimond <bus...@gm...> wrote: > On Saturday, September 04, 2010 03:23:14 James Crook wrote: >> Guys... >> >> We're expending a phenomenal amount of energy on the precise >> details of the look of sync-lock. >> >> What we have right now for the look is not right, but the feature >> works great (in as far as I have used it) in terms of what it >> does. >> >> At some future date I believe we will actually remove the space >> between sync-locked tracks so that the groupings will be clear >> whether or not there are selections. Ultimately the track panel >> is also going to move from being a list of tracks to being a tree >> of tracks with ability to collapse/expand subtrees. That's not >> going to happen any time soon. We'll need to already have some >> space saving devices, e.g. making the info panels 'fly out'. At >> the moment a tree would eat into the space on the left too much, >> and besides which it is too much development work to do at this >> juncture. >> >> What we have is an evolutionary step forward and it's good. >> >> >> I think the link in the track info does look a bit much like a >> button, and that is OK. Maybe at some future date we will think >> of a way to use it as a button too. > > It might be cool if clicking on the lock selected all sync-locked > tracks (same as the Edit->Select->In All Sync-Locked Tracks menu > item). It could have a tool-tip like: "This track is sync-locked; > click here to select all sync-locked tracks". Maybe in the case where > the track is fully selected omit the first part. That might be too > verbose. > Assuming that you mean the 'button' on the Track panel, an alternative "cool" function could be to temporarily un-lock that track from the sync-locked group (with an up and down state for the button). That would give a quick and powerful way to work with different sync-locked groupings without needing to re-order the tracks. Steve D >> I can live with the >> 'stalag-9' effect of chain link fencing. It's not beautiful, but >> it does the job. As far as I am concerned the look is now good >> enough. >> >> The biggest single reason for caring about the precise look is that >> if it is confusing to users that will increase 'support calls'. >> My suggestion here is that we make sync-lock off by default for >> the next few releases. We'll continue to get the support calls >> about 'my labels aren't locked to my audio' which we reply with >> with 'try the sync lock feature'. That way the people using it >> are the early adopters, and if they are really too confused by it >> they can switch it off again. We'll get feedback on it from >> people who are using it, rather than people who accidentally >> encounter it. It will help us a lot more work out what to do, and >> may even bring in volunteers to actually do it. >> >> So, +1/-1 please for the sync-lock being off by default (but the >> sync-lock button being visible in the toolbar) for the next few >> releases. >> > > Sounds good to me. > > - Al > >> >> --James. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: >> >> Show off your parallel programming skills. >> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: > > Show off your parallel programming skills. > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > |
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From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-09-08 00:03:52
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| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Tue, 7 Sep 2010 23:27:56 +0100 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Sync-lock-look > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 3:07 AM, Al Dimond > <bus...@gm...> wrote: > > On Saturday, September 04, 2010 03:23:14 James Crook wrote: > >> I think the link in the track info does look a bit much like a > >> button, and that is OK. Maybe at some future date we will think > >> of a way to use it as a button too. > > > > It might be cool if clicking on the lock selected all sync-locked > > tracks (same as the Edit->Select->In All Sync-Locked Tracks menu > > item). It could have a tool-tip like: "This track is sync-locked; > > click here to select all sync-locked tracks". Maybe in the case where > > the track is fully selected omit the first part. That might be too > > verbose. > > > > Assuming that you mean the 'button' on the Track panel, an alternative > "cool" function could be to temporarily un-lock that track from the > sync-locked group (with an up and down state for the button). That > would give a quick and powerful way to work with different sync-locked > groupings without needing to re-order the tracks. Don't object to Steve's idea, though I think it "could" be potentially confusing if the icon retains its current meaning of something like "This track is in a group that has at least one selected track, and any unselected ones are sync-locked" (rather than a steady state indicator of whether a track is in a group or not). You can already turn off the Sync-Lock Tracks" button while you work on the tracks you want to be solely affected. Although there is some work involved, that button will eventually have a shortcut too. What's important for me is that the "button" is either made functional in some way, or made to look nothing like a button. Gale |
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