btw. I created a fork which where I added a Theft Bomb and changed some minor things.
These are: Lasers: Longer lase time, cheaper, more damage. I like lasers. Dirtballs: Cheaper, More dirt. Riot charges: Cheaper, larger radius. Reducer: Reduces the weapon damage more significantly. Projectiles: A little more expensive and less effective. With experienced players these can render the game rather boring. Fuel: All players start with some fuel. The tanks can now move accross all obstacles Inertia damp: Replaces the parachute. Like health points specific to falling damage. Falling damage from all earthquakes, riot charges and riot blasts and the driller is now correctly awarded to the shooter.
At some place the options for lasers and reducer etc. should also go into the text file. Easiest change would be a general purpose extra field...
The Theft Bomb steals 5k from the opponent which is within the radius of the weapon's explosion.
Last edit: Alois 2016-01-10
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(I am referring to the current version 6.4 and the upcoming 6.5 here)
Lasers: They are already awfully powerful. I always use them if I need a direct Insta-Kill.
Dirtballs: That sounds ok. Currently the dirt balls are of very limited usage unless you use the super dirt ball
Riot weapons: The small ones could do with some increase, but the large ones are big enough.
Reducer: No. The reducer is evil already. Tweak it and its like cheating.
Projectiles: I'd need to see the exact changes to evaluate this
Fuel: Tanks should not be able to climb steep mountains. That's what the teleporters and the rocket are for.
Inertia Damp: And the difference besides not showing the prachute sprite and being immune to wind is? (See the other thread, please)
Falling damage is not awarded correctly? Oh, that is a bug, I thought I already fixed that. Thank you for the hint!
At some place the options for lasers and reducer etc. (...)
Which options are you referring to?
The Theft Bomb steals 5k from the opponent which is within the radius of the weapon's explosion.
I either do not understand this, or I think this is an addition that would be almost as useless as the Fan. 5k is nothing, unless you run very short games (under 20 rounds) and there you have more important things to do than wasting your firing opportunity for 5k.
I have found your fork and have gone quickly through a few commits. Looks promising!
I think some of your updates can be included for the 6.5 release.
Last edit: Sven Eden 2016-02-18
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I have gone through the commits in your fork and have added some of your ideas to the dev-6.5 branch.
Here is a short rundown:
Roller updates:
Having individual amounts of pixels a roller can climb/fall according to its size looks reasonable. I have included that in the dev-6.5 branch, but tweaked the values a bit.
Movement updates:
Tanks are strong, so being able to climb a bit more sounds good to me. However, I've added a check against the next coordinate in the movement direction to prevent tanks from being able to climb almost any mountain. That is important, because I am working on teaching the AI to move their tanks around. ;-)
Setting the producer of potential falling damage:
This is already done for the driller (through damage) and the teleports. The riot bombs need this, too, and this is what is still missing. However, your implementation in TANK::activateCurrentSelection() is a sledge hammer that would interfere with simultanous play.
I have fixed this in the dev-6.5 branch.
To have falling damage awarded even if the driller hits directly, it now does a minimum damage of 1.
Napalm Jelly:
I reduced the damage when I updated the way napalm damage was calculated over time. It is big enough. In fact, you can destroy any tank using a medium napalm bomb if you can place it underneath them.
Tremor weapons:
Reducing the prices seems ok to me. They aren't that useful. However, I do not see why their radius should be changed.
Riot weapons:
Agreed, the radius should be raised. Done!
Dirt weapons:
Radius up, price down, both are ok for me. With the new AI their use was more and more limited.
Per cent bomb and reducer:
The values are in order. No change needed.
Theft bomb:
With static 5k its useless in later rounds. But tweaked with the damage amplification it looks like a fun weapon and I have added it like that to the dev-6.5 branch. Please note that I will add awareness of that weapon to the AI.
However, you missed that you must take some action for older game save files still working. Without that, adding a new weapon screws the AI preferences. I fixed that in the dev-6.5 branch.
Lasers:
No. Increasing the damage and multiplying their firing time by eight makes them the ultimate overkill weapons. In addition to your move-anywhere-changes it is clear that you want to be able to move all over the place sniping off any enemy. The lasers are incredible powerful already, so no change needed.
However, I did lower their prices a bit.
Teleports:
They are nasty and can be very powerful. No reason to make them any cheaper.
Fans:
Even if the price was lowered to 10, who would want them anyway? (See Dimpled projectiles below)
Vengeance items:
Yes, they are a bit expensive. I adopt your pricing idea of 10k/20k/30k, sounds good to me.
Slick/Dimpled projectiles:
Making them more expensive and less effective is bad for human players. The AI does not care. So I fail to see the advantage in doing so.
However, I am open to discussion, of course.
Inertia damp:
I've thought about it rather long. And I don't like it. The parachute is needed once per fall. The inertia damp is needed once for every single point of falling damage. This means, that the larger the window you play in, the more (potential) falling damage you have to ward of. Further it eliminates the fun aspect of floating tanks being blown off course. And without the parachute sprite the damaging is rather opaque.
Fuel/Rockets:
Yes, I adopt the cheaper pricing.
SDI:
Yes, since the SDI got heavily optimized, 10k became a bit cheap. But 30k is too much. It burns out and is not a perfect shield after all. But 20k sounds reasonable.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Teleports
When I get teleported underground and there's a lot going on above, I wish that I had a way to pass when my turns comes around (for when I'm feeling chicken). I'm not saying that there should be a way to pass, but that it sometimes what I wish I could do.
SDI
I have to agree that 10k seems cheap and it seems very powerful for 10k. Also, I haven't seen the AI use one yet.
Do additional SDI units have any affect? If they do not and should not then it would be best if you were only allowed to buy one (so you don't waste money) or at least informed of such. If they do have a cumulative affect, I'm hoping that each additional SDI unit has diminishing returns and that should probably be stated in the text too.
Finally, I've noticed that when my SDI is successful at destroying a death head that it is to little effect in preserving my life -- that's probably just fine. I mean, you spend $30k, I guess you should get to kill whomever you want to.
On parachutes and wind: I was on the side of a steep hill and I actually had another tank parachute and get blown so that they ended up directly on top of me! This was rather hilarous because he couldn't hit me, but I unfortuantely didn't have any lasers, so I just blew us both up!
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Teleports and being underground:
For these cases I buy Penetrators. You can fire them from underground without giving up your cover. ;-)
SDI:
It takes a couple of rounds before the AI starts buying SDI. (~20)
My current test game is in round 805/1000 and all bots have them. ;-)
The more SDI units you buy, the farther away the SDI can hit and the more simultanous lasers can be shot. However, both the minimum distance and the chance that a laser burns out increase, too.
Further in the next release the AI will only fire if the missile will do less damage from there than from the point it will probably hit.
That still means that a death head might kill you anyway if it is too near and your health is too low. Maybe I'll add a check against squandering SDI shots if their firing wouldn't help anyway...
Parachutes and wind:
That is one of the fun parts. :-) even if you have a laser, the explosion of the opposite tank would hit you. But if you have fuel, you might be able to move away from under them.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Also, I just noticed today that SDIs burn out sometimes, so good to better understand how that works. I don't mind dying so much from a death head -- that's kinda what they are made for. :)
Yes, if I had had fuel when under a tank, that would have been the solution.
I ran a long game where I had $1 with 1.5% interest and I got to play with some of the bigger toys. Getting to use Armageddon with Fatal Fury was a real, ehem, blast. I basically lost out on the $10k winner reward and lost another $8k for my own death, but it was so well worth it to take everything out in one turn!
Yeah, this game has a very promising future.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hey,
btw. I created a fork which where I added a Theft Bomb and changed some minor things.
These are:
Lasers: Longer lase time, cheaper, more damage. I like lasers.
Dirtballs: Cheaper, More dirt.
Riot charges: Cheaper, larger radius.
Reducer: Reduces the weapon damage more significantly.
Projectiles: A little more expensive and less effective. With experienced players these can render the game rather boring.
Fuel: All players start with some fuel. The tanks can now move accross all obstacles
Inertia damp: Replaces the parachute. Like health points specific to falling damage.
Falling damage from all earthquakes, riot charges and riot blasts and the driller is now correctly awarded to the shooter.
At some place the options for lasers and reducer etc. should also go into the text file. Easiest change would be a general purpose extra field...
The Theft Bomb steals 5k from the opponent which is within the radius of the weapon's explosion.
Last edit: Alois 2016-01-10
(I am referring to the current version 6.4 and the upcoming 6.5 here)
Lasers: They are already awfully powerful. I always use them if I need a direct Insta-Kill.
Dirtballs: That sounds ok. Currently the dirt balls are of very limited usage unless you use the super dirt ball
Riot weapons: The small ones could do with some increase, but the large ones are big enough.
Reducer: No. The reducer is evil already. Tweak it and its like cheating.
Projectiles: I'd need to see the exact changes to evaluate this
Fuel: Tanks should not be able to climb steep mountains. That's what the teleporters and the rocket are for.
Inertia Damp: And the difference besides not showing the prachute sprite and being immune to wind is? (See the other thread, please)
Falling damage is not awarded correctly? Oh, that is a bug, I thought I already fixed that. Thank you for the hint!
Which options are you referring to?
I either do not understand this, or I think this is an addition that would be almost as useless as the Fan. 5k is nothing, unless you run very short games (under 20 rounds) and there you have more important things to do than wasting your firing opportunity for 5k.
I have found your fork and have gone quickly through a few commits. Looks promising!
I think some of your updates can be included for the 6.5 release.
Last edit: Sven Eden 2016-02-18
I have gone through the commits in your fork and have added some of your ideas to the dev-6.5 branch.
Here is a short rundown:
Roller updates:
Having individual amounts of pixels a roller can climb/fall according to its size looks reasonable. I have included that in the dev-6.5 branch, but tweaked the values a bit.
Movement updates:
Tanks are strong, so being able to climb a bit more sounds good to me. However, I've added a check against the next coordinate in the movement direction to prevent tanks from being able to climb almost any mountain. That is important, because I am working on teaching the AI to move their tanks around. ;-)
Setting the producer of potential falling damage:
This is already done for the driller (through damage) and the teleports. The riot bombs need this, too, and this is what is still missing. However, your implementation in TANK::activateCurrentSelection() is a sledge hammer that would interfere with simultanous play.
I have fixed this in the dev-6.5 branch.
To have falling damage awarded even if the driller hits directly, it now does a minimum damage of 1.
Napalm Jelly:
I reduced the damage when I updated the way napalm damage was calculated over time. It is big enough. In fact, you can destroy any tank using a medium napalm bomb if you can place it underneath them.
Tremor weapons:
Reducing the prices seems ok to me. They aren't that useful. However, I do not see why their radius should be changed.
Riot weapons:
Agreed, the radius should be raised. Done!
Dirt weapons:
Radius up, price down, both are ok for me. With the new AI their use was more and more limited.
Per cent bomb and reducer:
The values are in order. No change needed.
Theft bomb:
With static 5k its useless in later rounds. But tweaked with the damage amplification it looks like a fun weapon and I have added it like that to the dev-6.5 branch. Please note that I will add awareness of that weapon to the AI.
However, you missed that you must take some action for older game save files still working. Without that, adding a new weapon screws the AI preferences. I fixed that in the dev-6.5 branch.
Lasers:
No. Increasing the damage and multiplying their firing time by eight makes them the ultimate overkill weapons. In addition to your move-anywhere-changes it is clear that you want to be able to move all over the place sniping off any enemy. The lasers are incredible powerful already, so no change needed.
However, I did lower their prices a bit.
Teleports:
They are nasty and can be very powerful. No reason to make them any cheaper.
Fans:
Even if the price was lowered to 10, who would want them anyway? (See Dimpled projectiles below)
Vengeance items:
Yes, they are a bit expensive. I adopt your pricing idea of 10k/20k/30k, sounds good to me.
Slick/Dimpled projectiles:
Making them more expensive and less effective is bad for human players. The AI does not care. So I fail to see the advantage in doing so.
However, I am open to discussion, of course.
Inertia damp:
I've thought about it rather long. And I don't like it. The parachute is needed once per fall. The inertia damp is needed once for every single point of falling damage. This means, that the larger the window you play in, the more (potential) falling damage you have to ward of. Further it eliminates the fun aspect of floating tanks being blown off course. And without the parachute sprite the damaging is rather opaque.
Fuel/Rockets:
Yes, I adopt the cheaper pricing.
SDI:
Yes, since the SDI got heavily optimized, 10k became a bit cheap. But 30k is too much. It burns out and is not a perfect shield after all. But 20k sounds reasonable.
I hope you don't mind if I toss my two cents in!
Teleports
When I get teleported underground and there's a lot going on above, I wish that I had a way to pass when my turns comes around (for when I'm feeling chicken). I'm not saying that there should be a way to pass, but that it sometimes what I wish I could do.
SDI
I have to agree that 10k seems cheap and it seems very powerful for 10k. Also, I haven't seen the AI use one yet.
Do additional SDI units have any affect? If they do not and should not then it would be best if you were only allowed to buy one (so you don't waste money) or at least informed of such. If they do have a cumulative affect, I'm hoping that each additional SDI unit has diminishing returns and that should probably be stated in the text too.
Finally, I've noticed that when my SDI is successful at destroying a death head that it is to little effect in preserving my life -- that's probably just fine. I mean, you spend $30k, I guess you should get to kill whomever you want to.
On parachutes and wind: I was on the side of a steep hill and I actually had another tank parachute and get blown so that they ended up directly on top of me! This was rather hilarous because he couldn't hit me, but I unfortuantely didn't have any lasers, so I just blew us both up!
Hi Daniel,
Thank you very much for your feedback!
Teleports and being underground:
For these cases I buy Penetrators. You can fire them from underground without giving up your cover. ;-)
SDI:
It takes a couple of rounds before the AI starts buying SDI. (~20)
My current test game is in round 805/1000 and all bots have them. ;-)
The more SDI units you buy, the farther away the SDI can hit and the more simultanous lasers can be shot. However, both the minimum distance and the chance that a laser burns out increase, too.
Further in the next release the AI will only fire if the missile will do less damage from there than from the point it will probably hit.
That still means that a death head might kill you anyway if it is too near and your health is too low. Maybe I'll add a check against squandering SDI shots if their firing wouldn't help anyway...
Parachutes and wind:
That is one of the fun parts. :-) even if you have a laser, the explosion of the opposite tank would hit you. But if you have fuel, you might be able to move away from under them.
Ah hah! Penetrators, very good idea!
That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Also, I just noticed today that SDIs burn out sometimes, so good to better understand how that works. I don't mind dying so much from a death head -- that's kinda what they are made for. :)
Yes, if I had had fuel when under a tank, that would have been the solution.
I ran a long game where I had $1 with 1.5% interest and I got to play with some of the bigger toys. Getting to use Armageddon with Fatal Fury was a real, ehem, blast. I basically lost out on the $10k winner reward and lost another $8k for my own death, but it was so well worth it to take everything out in one turn!
Yeah, this game has a very promising future.