[Arianne-general] Another License Problem

[MIGUEL A. B. L. <mb...@fe...>]

Hi,
Djagg, who is doing several artwork for Arianne, don't want his work to b=
e
released under GPL but under a more restrictive license.
Brian Thompson, who is doing the RP System for Arianne, also want his wor=
k to be
published under a license that disallow renting and modifications for oth=
er
projects that are not Arianne.

I, who am the project founder, wants the entire project under an OpenSour=
ce
License. I don't want to have pieces that can differ the license style of=
 the
whole project. I like GPL, because Arianne would have never be possible w=
ithout
GPL, but I am a very tolerant person and I am able to negotiate it.

Arianne ALPHA 2 will be released soon, really soon, under the GNU/General=
 Public
License. After that what we choose it will be.

What we should do?
I attach the whole conversation with Djagg.

<^miguel^-> Djagg: Darock is doing some artwork for Arianne
<Djagg> what sort?
<Djagg> models?
<Djagg> 2d?
<^miguel^-> A shield a sword and a cube
<Djagg> hum k
<^miguel^-> 3D Studio
<^miguel^-> speak only a bit of english
<Djagg> that's cool
<Djagg> hehe
<Djagg> like me
<Djagg> :)
<Darorck> the english is dark
<Djagg> what is your nationality?
<^miguel^-> Djagg: Do you know that we can use several Themes for Arianne
<Djagg> yes I know
<Djagg> but, you don't find this one in the spirit of Arianne?
<Darorck> Spanish
<Djagg> k
<^miguel^-> So that we can see Arianne site as we want. :)
<Djagg> I really like this one
<^miguel^-> I just find it tooo dark, but if you do the Theme for PHPNuke=
, I
upload it without problem
<Djagg> hum
<Djagg> I must do it by myself?
<^miguel^-> ok, so do the theme and I will upload it
<Djagg> cause I know how to make good graphics for PHP nuke
<Djagg> but not how to make the theme
<^miguel^-> It is easy, I will send you the Arianne actual one and you ju=
st need
to change a few things
<Djagg> hum
<Djagg> In fact I can ask my brother
<^miguel^-> If you can't ask Olivier, and if he can't I will do
<Djagg> k
<Djagg> thanks
<Djagg> but you will see
<Djagg> this one will be great
<Djagg> imagine it with lot of text
<Djagg> and with all the links working
<^miguel^-> We will see soon
<Djagg> for the news
<^miguel^-> BTW Great work with the model
<Djagg> I've got a good idea
<Djagg> thx
<^miguel^-> How big is the 3DS file?
<Djagg> you see the pic next to the news
<Djagg> don't know
<Djagg> not really big
<Djagg> I will make an old book open
<Djagg> and
<Djagg> for graphics there will be some special effects
<Djagg> like spells
<Djagg> leaving the book
<^miguel^-> Sound good :)
<Djagg> for music: note writed on one page
<Djagg> etc...
<Djagg> A good site
<^miguel^-> So please, send me the 3DS to my email
<Djagg> is a complete site
<Djagg> hum
<Djagg> miguel
<^miguel^-> Arianne site is so not a good site :-)
<Djagg> I've got a question
<^miguel^-> What?
<Djagg> It'as about the open source
<^miguel^-> Do it
<Djagg> does my models can be used by anyone??
<Darorck> xDD
<^miguel^-> If the models are under GPL, yes
<^miguel^-> Anyone can USE, COPY and MODIFY it under GPL terms
<Djagg> and
<Djagg> we are under GPL license?
<^miguel^-> Arianne code yes
<Djagg> and the GFX?
<^miguel^-> And all the GFX and SFX and RP System MUST be under GPL too
<^miguel^-> IMO
<^miguel^-> We can discuss it of course
<Djagg> hum
<Djagg> this is something I don't like
<^miguel^-> But if you want to talk seriously about it, we will do on Mai=
ling list
<Djagg> arf
<Djagg> but I can't
<^miguel^-> arf?
<Djagg> speak about theses things in english is quite difficult
<Djagg> arf =3D oops
<Darorck> xDD
<Darorck> arf
<Djagg> :)
<^miguel^-> Well, so tell Olivier, and he will tell me
<Djagg> k
<Djagg> but
<Darorck> it=B4s mean dark too
<Djagg> that's quite embarassing
<Djagg> I don't want to see my models used for something else than Ariann=
e
<Djagg> and
<Djagg> if you want my point of view
<Djagg> I don't think this will attract pro
<Djagg> cause they usually don't like to share their work to the entire w=
orld
<Djagg> especially in the GFX
<^miguel^-> I understand
<Djagg> so -> problem
<Djagg> but
<^miguel^-> But if ppl don't want to share GFX, Brian don't want to share=
 RP,
why should I share code?
<Djagg> I've seen there was a big discussion about it on ML
<Djagg> exactly miguel
<Djagg> I understand too
<Djagg> same problem for everyone
<Djagg> but perhaps it's better to create a modified license
<Djagg> sharing model is not a problem
<Djagg> but I don't want to see them in other games
<Djagg> just imagine
<Djagg> Arianne will became a library for ppl
<Djagg> they will take a model
<Djagg> change the skin
<Djagg> and it will be theirs
<Djagg> and of course
<^miguel^-> That is the idea behind GPL
<^miguel^-> No, it will be of all
<Djagg> these people will not be under GPL license
<^miguel^-> Because they have to respect GPL Terms
<Djagg> hum
<^miguel^-> Anyway, I see your position
<Djagg> but
<Djagg> can they used it in other programs/games than Arianne?
<^miguel^-> Yes, as long as these apps are too GPL
<Djagg> arf
<^miguel^-> You can only use GPL work on GPL projects.
<Djagg> better
<Djagg> but not sufficient
<Djagg> now
<Djagg> imagine: if someone take my model
<Djagg> change the skin
<Djagg> do you think we can see this is the same model?
<Djagg> and this is worse for the code
<Djagg> he can use it in any game he wants
<^miguel^-> I understand
<Djagg> miguel
<^miguel^-> Code is shit, Design is shit
<^miguel^-> Important things are Experience and Ideas
<Djagg> we must weight the pros and cons about this
<Djagg> ???
<Djagg> I don't understand
<^miguel^-> I have get a ton of experience with arianne, now I could reco=
de
Arianne in jsut 1-2 weeks, while it took us 3 years to reach actual statu=
s
<^miguel^-> I really thing, this should be moved to ML
<Djagg> yes
<Djagg> but
<Djagg> not simple...
<^miguel^-> To begin, if Arianne is not OpenSource, we lose our Webhostin=
g
<^miguel^-> If Arianne is not OpenSource, we lose all our potential to im=
prove
and attract people
<Djagg> but we don't have to be menaced by the open source
<Darorck> the open source include the 3ds models?=BF???????
<Djagg> Open source seems to attract lot of ppl that's true
<Djagg> yes Darorck
<^miguel^-> Main problem is money
<^miguel^-> No money =3D> OpenSource =20
<Djagg> for hosting?
<^miguel^-> Money =3D> Propietary software
<^miguel^-> Yes, and for all
<Djagg> miguel
<Djagg> not a problem
<Djagg> I work in several team for free
<Djagg> without open source
<Djagg> money is never a problem
<^miguel^-> Djagg: Please look for a License to your artwork
<^miguel^-> Thinks of what you want ppl to do and not to do with your arr=
twork,
<Djagg> in fact
<^miguel^-> Who host the sites?
<Djagg> you don't need license
<^miguel^-> The technology behind Arianne website is really expensive
<Djagg> because ppl will not use you artwork
<Djagg> PHP nuke is free
<^miguel^-> No man, PHPNuke is GPL
<Djagg> in open source you invite ppl to use your artwork
<Djagg> mihuel
<Djagg> miguel
<Djagg> so why everyone can use it for free?
<^miguel^-> I see you position Djagg
<Djagg> without even participating to a GPL soft
<Djagg> or helping the community
<Djagg> you know Mihuel
<Djagg> arf!
<Djagg> you know Miguel
<Djagg> I really think open source is good
<Djagg> but I like it if this is in the interest of the community
<^miguel^-> I dunno what to do... :-|
<Djagg> so
<Djagg> we MUST be sure of the use of our work
<Djagg> is there any way to trace our work?
<^miguel^-> No, there is no
<^miguel^-> We can use SDL on a not GPL project
<^miguel^-> I think we could even use SDL_Net
<Darorck> I have a present for you Djagg
<^miguel^-> and SDL_image
<Darorck> and it=B4s free
<Darorck> http://textures.forrest.cz/
<Darorck> xDD
<Darorck> there are a lot of textures.
<Djagg> huhu$
<^miguel^-> MySQL will need to be paid a license fee.
<Djagg> I've got an other for you Darorck
<Djagg> and this is free
<Djagg> www.darkfusion.fr.st
<Djagg> (my site)
<Darorck> ohh thanks
<Djagg> hum
<Djagg> and can I hope at least my name in the projects wich are using th=
e models?
<^miguel^-> No, not even that
<^miguel^-> GPL don't force you to do it
<Djagg> hum
<Djagg> and
<Djagg> is there some advantages?
<Djagg> :)
<^miguel^-> advantages?
<Djagg> arf
<Djagg> hum
<^miguel^-> about what?
<Djagg> open source
<Djagg> something really cool
<Darorck> arf =3D oops xDD
<Djagg> :)
<^miguel^-> Arianne won't have been possible without OpenSource
<Djagg> hum yes
<^miguel^-> Djagg: Anyway, I will move discussion to the ML later, I thin=
k this
is important
<Djagg> yes
<Djagg> that's important
<^miguel^-> So for me, OpenSource is full of advantages
<Djagg> hehe
<Djagg> I see that...
<^miguel^-> You don't need to share this vision
<Djagg> but my models
<Djagg> :)
<Djagg> we will see that on ML, now I'm going to eat
<^miguel^-> see you
<Djagg> cya