At current state it is very time consuming and tedious to transfer the exact data of one vertex/edge/face to another vertex/edge/face of a distant part of the same or a second mesh. But for instants for a proper texture or clean alignment of two objects it won't do to try to achieve this by moving the Gizmo only. You up to now have to click through the menues repeatedly or to use pencil and paper to set one value after the other. To have some dialog offering the x/y/z data of a marked target and aside of this an empty (or with these data by default!) set of data would be a great offer.
Is there already a feature request for this? I thought so, but didn't find.
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Yes, I prefer to use PolyMeshExtension for my works, because the winged structure of its meshes offers other options than trimesh. And yes, I already did some mesh unfolding and UV-mapping. My texture from where my thoughts started is picturebased . For that actual object (a plane mesh poster) I chose the way of two onesided projection mappings because I could use 'open seams' for my poster which should partially split in animation (see the right part 2 of the pic underneath). One piece will fall apart, so I finally made it a separate object with skeleton to animate. If you don't like to go the long way I mentioned above, for 'reuniting' the seams to make them invisible in render, you have to work very cautious and planned out. In UV-mapping I didn't manage this at all. That way I've now described here I could manage to avoid their appearance in render approximately (as you see in the left part 1 picture), but if camera would come closer and move slower too, I'd for shure have had to do all that 'one by one' stuff, because the gizmo (for my hands) simply isn't precisely enough. That led to my upper question. And I don't think this would be the only situation, where to use ...
I did some testing with PolyMeshes and picture textures many years ago and I do remember that there was some unexpected twisting (of the texture) happening, when the scene was rendered and if I remember right the Surface Accuracy of rendering was a factor there. That happened with an unfolding mapping though.
In this case I'd use projection mapping as follows:
Make the mesh of the torn and wrinkled poster completely flat as if it was still brand new.
Project the image texture onto it.
Remember to check the "Bind Texture Coordinates to Surface" box.
THEN convert it into an actor (make a safe copy first.)
Make the wrinkled pose(s).
Add a pose track to animate if that is needed.
At a quick test that seemed to work to me.
I don't now remember how you had modelled the poster, but on some other work of yours there seemed to some confusion about how to use edge smoothing: The principle should be, that when you have the mesh smoothing set to approximating, you set the edge smothing to 0 only to the edges that actually are edges. The rest should be left to smoothness 1, so the model will have smooth forms and bend smoothly. Same with the "Corner" checkbox for the vertices.
I hope this helps.
Last edit: Pete 2017-07-06
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The buckles and partly smoothings You may have found already in the former version of the poster mesh are intended, as to be seen in the attatched picture above. But thank You for those principles too.
What You've written is to a large extent what I did.
Only converting into an actor I had to avoid as long as I had to arrange everything. Because I therefore needed the chance of changig the build of the mesh and the bones and the splits.
After that, when everything fits, an actor of course can handle every default value and its change. But the essentials of my question are aiming mostly to the preceding arranging part.
But this is not the only area a transfer dialog could facilitate the work on avoiding gaps between objects:
As in the passing mention at the end of my previous posting also for the modeling area such a feature could be helping in positioning objects really close together but still independent from each other and with wanted overlapping only. I myself wished it not only once anyway, because every other way (as copying object in the mainscreen without displacement and moving it with the gizmo, extracting a curve to build a new mesh upon, or writing values one by one) to reach this aim is cumbersome.
Last edit: Konrad W. 2017-07-07
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Sorry. I have been too tired for these things in the last couple of evenings. (Got a house painting project going on...) Now my brain seems to be back on track.
One piece will fall apart...
I missed that part, sorry. Actually I have encountered similar issues with boolean objects too. When you do a boolean, the texture mapping of the original pieces is lost and the object origin is recalculated. -- Then remapping a texture into it's correct position is next to impossible.
Only converting into an actor I had to avoid as long as I had to arrange everything.
That't right. After wrapping an object into an actor it can not be edited any more. (Not in any sensible manner anyway. I guess it is not uncommon, that the first actor becomes a 'prototype' and you have to develop the object further after a bit of testing...)
But, I think I get your point about the tool:
Capture the position and/or texture coordinates of the selected element (or a group of elements) and then paste the data to another one (or group).
...or create a new object based on the data.
This should work inside one object and also from one object to another.
Possibly from one mesh type to another too.
Probably could just capture all the data and at "paste" show a dialog, what data to use?
Am I missing something essential? Something like that sounds doable and I think, that the tool should be available in AoI level -- not just inside a mesh tool. Might be best implemented as a plugin, that adds it's UI into all mesh tools .... I'm beginnig to feel, that we need more programmers... :D
Actually 3D engineering tools usually have this kind of features, that allow copying geometry from one object to another, sometimes with the possibility of creating active reference links between objects: If you need to move a screw, you just move the centerline and the screw, nut, hole and the attached part move along... Pretty complex to make and requires very diciplined usage, but great help, when used right. :)
Last edit: Pete 2017-07-07
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@ Pete & Luke S.: Yes, I'd like to have an easier way for copying x-, y- and z- positions (or coordinates) from one vertex/edge/face to another to align them precisely than to go again and again to 'edit vertex' or to note it all with pencil and paper. For me as an amateur user it looks as 'simple' as to have some dialog which at least contains two value sets (for a vertex), four (for an edge) and six or eight (for one face) similar to ' edit vertex' at the same time one half passively offering the aimed values the other half activated for the changes or like that ... one button 'Copy all coordinates' and one field 'set distance for x y z'. And this should work like You pointed out, Pete.
My 'poster-story' was just thought as one example, this could have been usefull for ...
In the meantime I had some incidents with it I first have to think about, befor I'm wasting Your precious time and helpfulness.
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You have not wasted anyone's time. We're glad to try to help. Sometimes it takes us a few attempts to understand. I can see the value in a tool that can help for this type of thing. It may take some time and a few attempts to get it to work properly.
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First of all, I would approach as I have approached almost all feature requests in AOI - make a plugin. :)
Secondly, there is already a plugin which allows object to be edited.
So we could do any of: enhance the current object editor plugin to be able to edit points - and to be able to copy values from an existing point; create a new plugin specifically for editing points;
* enable a "copy-from" mode in the point-editor plugin;
* enable 2 instances of the point-editor to be running simultaneously;
I can see it being more difficult to add such a tool to the mesh editor - but I'm sure it's still possible.
It would probably be somewhat harder still to add it to the PolyMesh plugin. In theory, it should be possible - but it would need investigating first...
Cheers!
Nik
Last edit: Nik Trevallyn-Jones 2017-07-09
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A plugin might be the perfect way to develop this workflow. I was actually thinking more along the lines of a visual option... Select a point or edge(s)/face(s) that you would like to align, activate the tool, (menu? toolpane?) and then select the "target" point or edge(s)/face(s).
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the point-editor plugin could live in the sidebar;
whenever a point is selected, the point-editor plugin would display the coordinates, and allow them to be edited.
if multiple points were selected, then the point-editor plugin would display those points - in a scrollable area - and allow any to be edited
with a maximum of (say) 10 points - to avoid insane scrolling panes if a 1 milltion point mesh were selected...
a simple "copy" button would copy all 3 coordinates of any single point;
a simple "paste button would paste previously copied values into any other point;
It seems to me that similar logic could be useful for copy-n-paste for colours as well...
but probably in a separate plugin...
It has been a long time since I wrote an AoI plugin, but I am pretty sure that AoI publishes a "SELECTION_CHANGED" event, or something similar, which the plugin would use to know that a point or point(s) were currently selected.
I am not entirely sure anymore how the plugin would work with the mesh editor, since I think the mesh editors are modal.
I do know I have build plugins for meshes previously, so my dim memory of it is that the plugin would insert itself into the menus of the mesh editor(s).
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Thank You all for Your positively reactions to my request. Because of that I now set for this the feature request # 380 with the same title and excerpted You answers there too, as I hope in a properly way.
Last edit: Konrad W. 2017-07-10
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At current state it is very time consuming and tedious to transfer the exact data of one vertex/edge/face to another vertex/edge/face of a distant part of the same or a second mesh. But for instants for a proper texture or clean alignment of two objects it won't do to try to achieve this by moving the Gizmo only. You up to now have to click through the menues repeatedly or to use pencil and paper to set one value after the other. To have some dialog offering the x/y/z data of a marked target and aside of this an empty (or with these data by default!) set of data would be a great offer.
Is there already a feature request for this? I thought so, but didn't find.
Reading this I am not sure what you are trying to do?
I think you are usin PolyMesh. If your texture is a picture, are you familiar with mesh unfolding?
Yes, I prefer to use PolyMeshExtension for my works, because the winged structure of its meshes offers other options than trimesh. And yes, I already did some mesh unfolding and UV-mapping. My texture from where my thoughts started is picturebased . For that actual object (a plane mesh poster) I chose the way of two onesided projection mappings because I could use 'open seams' for my poster which should partially split in animation (see the right part 2 of the pic underneath). One piece will fall apart, so I finally made it a separate object with skeleton to animate. If you don't like to go the long way I mentioned above, for 'reuniting' the seams to make them invisible in render, you have to work very cautious and planned out. In UV-mapping I didn't manage this at all. That way I've now described here I could manage to avoid their appearance in render approximately (as you see in the left part 1 picture), but if camera would come closer and move slower too, I'd for shure have had to do all that 'one by one' stuff, because the gizmo (for my hands) simply isn't precisely enough. That led to my upper question. And I don't think this would be the only situation, where to use ...
Last edit: Konrad W. 2017-07-06
I did some testing with PolyMeshes and picture textures many years ago and I do remember that there was some unexpected twisting (of the texture) happening, when the scene was rendered and if I remember right the Surface Accuracy of rendering was a factor there. That happened with an unfolding mapping though.
In this case I'd use projection mapping as follows:
At a quick test that seemed to work to me.
I don't now remember how you had modelled the poster, but on some other work of yours there seemed to some confusion about how to use edge smoothing: The principle should be, that when you have the mesh smoothing set to approximating, you set the edge smothing to 0 only to the edges that actually are edges. The rest should be left to smoothness 1, so the model will have smooth forms and bend smoothly. Same with the "Corner" checkbox for the vertices.
I hope this helps.
Last edit: Pete 2017-07-06
The buckles and partly smoothings You may have found already in the former version of the poster mesh are intended, as to be seen in the attatched picture above. But thank You for those principles too.
What You've written is to a large extent what I did.
Only converting into an actor I had to avoid as long as I had to arrange everything. Because I therefore needed the chance of changig the build of the mesh and the bones and the splits.
After that, when everything fits, an actor of course can handle every default value and its change. But the essentials of my question are aiming mostly to the preceding arranging part.
But this is not the only area a transfer dialog could facilitate the work on avoiding gaps between objects:
As in the passing mention at the end of my previous posting also for the modeling area such a feature could be helping in positioning objects really close together but still independent from each other and with wanted overlapping only. I myself wished it not only once anyway, because every other way (as copying object in the mainscreen without displacement and moving it with the gizmo, extracting a curve to build a new mesh upon, or writing values one by one) to reach this aim is cumbersome.
Last edit: Konrad W. 2017-07-07
Sorry. I have been too tired for these things in the last couple of evenings. (Got a house painting project going on...) Now my brain seems to be back on track.
I missed that part, sorry. Actually I have encountered similar issues with boolean objects too. When you do a boolean, the texture mapping of the original pieces is lost and the object origin is recalculated. -- Then remapping a texture into it's correct position is next to impossible.
That't right. After wrapping an object into an actor it can not be edited any more. (Not in any sensible manner anyway. I guess it is not uncommon, that the first actor becomes a 'prototype' and you have to develop the object further after a bit of testing...)
But, I think I get your point about the tool:
Am I missing something essential? Something like that sounds doable and I think, that the tool should be available in AoI level -- not just inside a mesh tool. Might be best implemented as a plugin, that adds it's UI into all mesh tools .... I'm beginnig to feel, that we need more programmers... :D
Actually 3D engineering tools usually have this kind of features, that allow copying geometry from one object to another, sometimes with the possibility of creating active reference links between objects: If you need to move a screw, you just move the centerline and the screw, nut, hole and the attached part move along... Pretty complex to make and requires very diciplined usage, but great help, when used right. :)
Last edit: Pete 2017-07-07
I'm still not clear on what you are trying to do. It sounds as if you are trying to precisely align the edges of two separate meshes or mesh parts?
I think that would work best if we had a simple way to mark several selections...
@ Pete & Luke S.: Yes, I'd like to have an easier way for copying x-, y- and z- positions (or coordinates) from one vertex/edge/face to another to align them precisely than to go again and again to 'edit vertex' or to note it all with pencil and paper. For me as an amateur user it looks as 'simple' as to have some dialog which at least contains two value sets (for a vertex), four (for an edge) and six or eight (for one face) similar to ' edit vertex' at the same time one half passively offering the aimed values the other half activated for the changes or like that ... one button 'Copy all coordinates' and one field 'set distance for x y z'. And this should work like You pointed out, Pete.
My 'poster-story' was just thought as one example, this could have been usefull for ...
In the meantime I had some incidents with it I first have to think about, befor I'm wasting Your precious time and helpfulness.
You have not wasted anyone's time. We're glad to try to help. Sometimes it takes us a few attempts to understand. I can see the value in a tool that can help for this type of thing. It may take some time and a few attempts to get it to work properly.
First of all, I would approach as I have approached almost all feature requests in AOI - make a plugin. :)
Secondly, there is already a plugin which allows object to be edited.
So we could do any of:
enhance the current object editor plugin to be able to edit points - and to be able to copy values from an existing point;
create a new plugin specifically for editing points;
* enable a "copy-from" mode in the point-editor plugin;
* enable 2 instances of the point-editor to be running simultaneously;
I can see it being more difficult to add such a tool to the mesh editor - but I'm sure it's still possible.
It would probably be somewhat harder still to add it to the PolyMesh plugin. In theory, it should be possible - but it would need investigating first...
Cheers!
Nik
Last edit: Nik Trevallyn-Jones 2017-07-09
A plugin might be the perfect way to develop this workflow. I was actually thinking more along the lines of a visual option... Select a point or edge(s)/face(s) that you would like to align, activate the tool, (menu? toolpane?) and then select the "target" point or edge(s)/face(s).
Not necessarily. If my memory serves me right, there have been plugins that added tools to PolyMesh. (Somethig that Guillermo did, I think.)
I would expect the plugin to be very visual:
It seems to me that similar logic could be useful for copy-n-paste for colours as well...
but probably in a separate plugin...
It has been a long time since I wrote an AoI plugin, but I am pretty sure that AoI publishes a "SELECTION_CHANGED" event, or something similar, which the plugin would use to know that a point or point(s) were currently selected.
I am not entirely sure anymore how the plugin would work with the mesh editor, since I think the mesh editors are modal.
I do know I have build plugins for meshes previously, so my dim memory of it is that the plugin would insert itself into the menus of the mesh editor(s).
Thank You all for Your positively reactions to my request. Because of that I now set for this the feature request # 380 with the same title and excerpted You answers there too, as I hope in a properly way.
Last edit: Konrad W. 2017-07-10