#1214 Shop distribution and bazaars
1. Bazaars should be allowed outside of D:*. (With the same restrictions and probabilities depending on depth.)
2. I suggest to skew the probabilities of shops, depending on the branch. Here are some weight proposals (skipping branches which are shopless as of now):
D: 10
Vaults: 20 (+50)
Orc: 15 (+20)
Elf: 20 (+70)
Lair: 0 (-100)
Snake: 10
Shoals: 10
Swamp: 0 (-50)
So shops are on average about as probable as now (slightly less, if my figures are correct - which could be justified by a little less variance in the new system).
I would like to do this for (lack of) flavour: shops do not fit into Swamp/Lair, given the absence of intelligent population. Yes, this makes Swamp even less attractive, but Swamp has to be addressed anyway.
Also, adding more stimulus to visit Vault/Elf earlier in search of shops sounds good to me.
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Seems right. -LP
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Yeah, makes sense, although I'll miss the shops in Lair. Always made good purchases there. I must admit finding a shop in Swamp was delightfully absurd.
--Eino
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yeah, shops in the swamp feel weird, but I sometimes got good stuff from them. Reminds me of the game NOX, where during the swamp level, just as you thought it would go on forever, desperately in need of ammo/repair/whatever, you encounter a shop in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by nothing but trees, darkness, and undead.
The shopkeeper says to you, "You must be either really brave or really stupid." or "Shall I arrange funerary services, or did you wish to make a purchase?"
heh, good times. I still agree that shops prolly wouldn't be in places without intelligent creatures.
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"...but I sometimes got good stuff from them" -- well, this has nothing to do with in which the shop is located, of course (but see below).
Rethinking my own proposal, I would like to point out two further things:
a) Just like the boringness of Swamp is increased by disallowing shops (but should be addressed in a much broader attack anyway), the proposal reduces tediousness (dito): you will not feel compelled anymore to fully map Swamp levels in search of a shop.
Note: if you can come up with thematic Swamp vaults containing shops, that'd be fine with me.
b) Absolute depth of a level has impact on a shop's stock. Due to this, the proposed new system would yield better items (yet later).
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What are the meaning of these weight numbers? Also wondering if you're considering the total number of levels each branch has in your calculations.
I like the idea, though.. While you say better items, but later, I find that usually when I'm happy to see shops is early - not late.
It's early when they really have the potential to brighten your game. Later, not so much. For this reason I might think it would be good to err on the high side, if noone thinks that's a bad idea.
megane
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Standard weight is 10. So, with the proposal, chances for shops would be doubled in Vaults, but zeroed in Swamp.
Yes, I used the size of branches in the calculation (may be still off, of course :)
It's later because Lair and Swamp would lose their shops, but Elf and Vaults would gain.
The other boon is to have allow bazaars outside of D. This is necessary anyway, and generally increases the number of shops, too. Feel free to suggest different numbers. (I like to have Swamp and Lair shopless since there's no intelligent monsters to be found there.)
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I like the idea of only including shops if there are 'civilized' areas around. To go with this idea, perhaps if a bazaar would have been generated in Swamp or Lair, there is a 50% chance that instead a smaller number of shops is generated on the level, as part of a vault guarded by well-equipped humans or orcs or something.
-Ero
I still stand by my numbers, but I would increase Orc to 20 (as Elf and Vaults). Could make you enter the Mines earlier...
A new idea (and somewhat radical, so likely to meet protests): I would like to increase the chances for bazaars, depending on turncount. For a rough idea: new_chance=old_chance+1000/(10000+turncount).
This can be rationalised away quite easily (they're just moved on if you dawdle) and would provide a slight bonus to quick players (who are likely to be happy for any type of shop), without making dive scumming in any way feasible.
Upping priority (for the shop distribution thing, not necessarily the turncount & bazaars idea). By the way, the distinction between Snake 0 and Shoals 10 would help in making these branches different (along the lines of Swamp providing xp but Shoals giving items).
Bazaars are nowadays allowed outside of D. New branch shop distribution to go!
--Eino