Re: [VuFind-Tech] [solrmarc-tech] RE: well this is strange

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Hi Jonathan,

> My ILS doesn't even support MFHD!

Ouch!

> Item records never have any 007's, the ILS does not support that.

There is no MARC format for item records (that I know of), so that stands to reason.

> Item Records do have (custom local) "item types"

So do item records in our ILS, but those item types exist for circulation purposes and play no part in the ILS OPAC search interface.  In theory you could leverage those values in a format-determination algorithm when importing to a next-gen catalog, but you'd want to be careful.

-- Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Rochkind [mailto:roc...@jh...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:58 PM
> To: Doran, Michael D
> Cc: sol...@go...; vuf...@li... Tech
> Subject: Re: [solrmarc-tech] RE: [VuFind-Tech] well this is strange
>
> My ILS doesn't even support MFHD!  Item records never have any 007's,
> the ILS does not support that. Item Records do have (custom local) "item
> types", and belong to a certain (custom local) "collection" and are in a
> certain (custom local) "location".  That's about all they got for metadata.
>
> I'm actually relatively happy with the dates-of-creation/production,
> once I figured out how they worked. They are fairly descriptive.  There
> are a few weird practices, but they are fairly easy to work around.
>
> > Hi Jonathan,
> >
> >> It is an unholy mess.
> > Yeah, I purposely didn't want to get into all that.  For instance, MARC
> Holding (MFHD) records *also* have a 007 Physical Description fixed field.
> So in the case of bibs with multiple MFHDs attached (for items with different
> formats), in *theory* you could distinguish between them.  In *practice*
> though, only 0.1% of our library's MFHD records have a 007 field (and I bet
> most of yours have a similar percentage).  Some institutions *require* that
> all formats be included on one bibliographic record.
> >
> >> I tell the catalogers, I can only get out what you put
> >> in. They say "we're just following the rules."
> > Yes, there's a direct relationship:
> >
> > cataloging practice (process)
> >     =>  cataloging records (product)
> >       =>  cataloging system functionality (technology)
> >
> > I find though when talking to catalogers, that many don't understand the
> significance of the fixed fields.  And when I finish the presentation on
> "Format Designation in MARC Records: Impact on yadda yadda," I'll start on
> "Date Designation in MARC Records".  Equally as unholy a mess.
> >
> > -- Michael
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jonathan Rochkind [mailto:roc...@jh...]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:34 PM
> >> To: sol...@go...
> >> Cc: Doran, Michael D; Tuan Nguyen; vuf...@li... Tech
> >> Subject: Re: [solrmarc-tech] RE: [VuFind-Tech] well this is strange
> >>
> >> I haven't completely gotten to the bottom of this either, I use a somewhat
> >> complicated heuristic to determine what format facet values to map to in
> my
> >> solr indexing (custom code I wrote here).
> >>
> >> But one additional kink to the approach outlined here:
> >>
> >> We have some records that have _both_ a print item _and_ a non-print item
> >> attached to them. The non-print is often a microfilm or electronic version
> of
> >> the same content; but I think sometimes can instead be a CD or CD-ROM that
> >> accompanied the book.
> >>
> >> Guess what the 007's look like in this case? An 007/008 only for the non-
> >> print version, with nothing for the print version, so no way to tell
> >> something that is _only_ microfilm from something that is microfilm+print.
> >>
> >> It is an unholy mess. I tell the catalogers, I can only get out what you
> put
> >> in. They say "we're just following the rules."  If anyone's driving this
> bus,
> >> I don't know who.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        >  I think the issue here w/ the print count is that
> getMediaTypes()
> >> looks for
> >>
> >>        >  explicitly declared media types in the 007 or the "form of item"
> >> entry in the
> >>
> >>        >  008/006.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        I may be able to add to David Walker's assessment.  I've recently
> been
> >> investigating how format designation in MARC records impacts system
> >> functionality, so I've had a chance to take a look at our collection in
> that
> >> regard [1].
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        Any format designation based on the MARC 007 Physical Description
> fixed
> >> field (which appears to be the case in the "Media Types" being discussed
> [2])
> >> is going to run into limitations.  For example, our Library's catalog
> >> contains 1,543,293 total bib records, of which 501,885 of those records
> have
> >> a 007 field.  Doing the math:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>             501,885/1,543,293 x 100 = 32.5%.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        We see that from the *start*, only a third of the bib records even
> >> *have* the data used to assign a Media Type.  In the screen shot below, we
> >> can see the distribution based on the character position 00 value of the
> 007
> >> field (again this is our collection, although probably typical for an
> >> institution dependent on copy cataloging):
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        We see that electronic resources, microforms, maps, and sound and
> video
> >> recordings seem to be fairly well represented, but text (e.g. books) not
> so
> >> much.  One explanation for this is that the 007 field is "mandatory if
> >> applicable" for National Level Full records if the Media Type is
> Electronic
> >> Resource or Microform, but not for any of the other media types [3].
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        >  In which case, we might update the code to default to print if
> no
> >> value is
> >>
> >>        >  found.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        I think we can assume that *most* bib records for print items are
> not
> >> 007 encoded.  However, I would feel uneasy assuming the converse, that all
> >> non-007-encoded bib records are for print items.  I will try looking at
> our
> >> collection to get a better sense of how true this is.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        By implementing next-gen catalog systems such as VuFind, Primo,
> >> AquaBrowser, etc., we have escaped some of the limitations of the
> traditional
> >> ILS catalog.  However, as long as MARC records are a primary raw material,
> we
> >> are still dependent on the *information* encoded in those records,
> regardless
> >> of how we slice, dice, xml-ify, and index.  ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        -- Michael
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        [1] I'm working on a presentation titled "Format Designation in
> MARC
> >> Records: Impact on Search, Retrieval, Limits and Facets in Voyager and
> >> AquaBrowser".  Note that I tend to use the word "format" while realizing
> that
> >> "type" and "medium" are also used in the MARC specification and there can
> be
> >> greater or lesser degrees of overlapping meanings.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        [2] I'm basing that assumption on the level of format detail, e.g.
> >> "VideoDVD" and "VideoVHS".  Drilling down to the "DVD" and "VHS" level
> from
> >> videorecording, requires looking at the 007 character position 004. See:
> >> http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd007v.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        [3] MARC 21 Format for Bibliographic Data>  National Level Full and
> >> Minimal Requirements
> >>
> >>            http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/nlr/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        # Michael Doran, Systems Librarian
> >>
> >>        # University of Texas at Arlington
> >>
> >>        # 817-272-5326 office
> >>
> >>        # 817-688-1926 mobile
> >>
> >>        # do...@ut...<mailto:do...@ut...>
> >>
> >>        # http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/<http://rocky.uta.edu/doran/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>        >  -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >>        >  From: sol...@go... [mailto:solrmarc-
> >> te...@go...]
> >>
> >>        >  On Behalf Of Walker, David
> >>
> >>        >  Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:15 PM
> >>
> >>        >  To: sol...@go...; Tuan Nguyen; vufind-
> >>
> >>        >  te...@li... Tech
> >>
> >>        >  Subject: [solrmarc-tech] RE: [VuFind-Tech] well this is strange
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  Hi Tuan, et alles,
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  I think the issue here w/ the print count is that
> getMediaTypes()
> >> looks for
> >>
> >>        >  explicitly declared media types in the 007 or the "form of item"
> >> entry in the
> >>
> >>        >  008/006.
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  I suspect -- although I'll have to look at this more closely --
> that
> >> most
> >>
> >>        >  MARC records for print items simply don't have any explicit
> media
> >> type
> >>
> >>        >  declared, under the assumption that the record is for an item in
> >> print unless
> >>
> >>        >  it states otherwise.
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  In which case, we might update the code to default to print if
> no
> >> value is
> >>
> >>        >  found.
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  I need to download and try out the latest (MIxin) version of the
> code
> >> myself.
> >>
> >>        >  I notice Bob made a few (albeit relatively minor) changes.
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  --Dave
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  -----------------
> >>
> >>        >  David Walker
> >>
> >>        >  Library Web Services Manager
> >>
> >>        >  California State University
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >>        >  From: sol...@go...<mailto:solrmarc-
> >> te...@go...>  [mailto:sol...@go...]
> >> <mailto:[mailto:sol...@go...]>
> >>
> >>        >  On Behalf Of Demian Katz
> >>
> >>        >  Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:27 AM
> >>
> >>        >  To: Tuan Nguyen; vufind-
> te...@li...<mailto:vufind-
> >> te...@li...>  Tech
> >>
> >>        >  Cc: sol...@go...<mailto:solrmarc-
> >> te...@go...>
> >>
> >>        >  Subject: [solrmarc-tech] RE: [VuFind-Tech] well this is strange
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  I'm copying this to the solrmarc-tech list in case anyone over
> there
> >> has
> >>
> >>        >  comments.  I haven't tried this myself yet, but I'll see if I
> can
> >> find some
> >>
> >>        >  time in the next week or two to see how our collection breaks
> down.
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  - Demian
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  >  -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >>        >  >  From: Tuan Nguyen [mailto:tu...@yo...]
> >> <mailto:[mailto:tu...@yo...]>
> >>
> >>        >  >  Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:02 PM
> >>
> >>        >  >  To: vuf...@li...<mailto:vufind-
> >> te...@li...>  Tech
> >>
> >>        >  >  Subject: [VuFind-Tech] well this is strange
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >  Well I thought I'd tried out the new methods to see how our
> >> collection
> >>
> >>        >  >  looks in terms of media types and content types, I indexed
> 2205853
> >>
> >>        >  >  marc records. The content types look reasonable, but the
> media
> >> types
> >>
> >>        >  >  look suspicious. Particularly the Print (3666). I'm sure we
> have
> >> more
> >>
> >>        >  >  than
> >>
> >>        >  >  3666 books in print. Has anyone tried this out?
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >  This is what I get:
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >  Content Types:
> >>
> >>        >  >  -------------------------
> >>
> >>        >  >   Book (2043180)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerFile (378935)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MusicRecording (39292)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Periodical (37856)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Thesis (32405)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Serial (30109)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Video (21007)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MusicalScore (11341)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Map (4555)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MotionPicture (3987)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MapSingle (3722)
> >>
> >>        >  >   BookSubunit (2657)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ProjectedMedium (1769)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SoundRecording (1756)
> >>
> >>        >  >   BookSeries (513)
> >>
> >>        >  >   BookComponentPart (497)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MixedMaterial (421)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Newspaper (371)
> >>
> >>        >  >   FlashCard (337)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Website (324)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerCombination (289)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerInteractiveMultimedia (277)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Atlas (256)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MapSeries (240)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Kit (209)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerDocument (176)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Realia (159)
> >>
> >>        >  >   BookCollection (124)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Database (121)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerBibliographicData (93)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerProgram (92)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SerialIntegratingResource (73)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MapSerial (72)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ArtReproduction (38)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MusicalScoreManuscript (30)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerNumericData (22)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerRepresentational (21)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Image (18)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Slide (15)
> >>
> >>        >  >   LooseLeaf (14)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Model (14)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Chart (13)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SerialComponentPart (10)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerOnlineSystem (9)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Filmstrip (9)
> >>
> >>        >  >   PhysicalObject (7)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Picture (6)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Toy (6)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Game (5)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MapManuscript (4)
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >  Media Types:
> >>
> >>        >  >  --------------------------------
> >>
> >>        >  >   Electronic (388049)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Online (357551)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Microfiche (124710)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SoundDisc (27719)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SoundDiscCD (14120)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SoundDiscLP (13140)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Microfilm (10085)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoDVD (8635)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoVHS (8515)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Map (7123)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SoundRecordingOther (7042)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Print (3666)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Filmstrip (1337)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerOpticalDisc (1329)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoOther (988)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MapOther (906)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerOther (733)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SoundCassette (355)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Atlas (347)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoLaserdisc (303)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SensorImage (136)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MicrofilmReel (91)
> >>
> >>        >  >   PrintLarge (85)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoUMatic (85)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Microform (53)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Slide (51)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Microopaque (47)
> >>
> >>        >  >   SoundTapeReel (43)
> >>
> >>        >  >   PhotomechanicalPrint (39)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerFloppyDisk (32)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Braille (24)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoBeta (22)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MapView (20)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Picture (17)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MapSection (14)
> >>
> >>        >  >   Chart (11)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerOpticalDiscCartridge (10)
> >>
> >>        >  >   MapDiagram (10)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoBluRay (10)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ElectronicDirect (9)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ImageOther (9)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerMagnetoOpticalDisc (7)
> >>
> >>        >  >   FilmOther (7)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerDisk (4)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoMII (4)
> >>
> >>        >  >   FlashCard (3)
> >>
> >>        >  >   GlobeOther (3)
> >>
> >>        >  >   VideoEIAJ (3)
> >>
> >>        >  >   FilmCassette (2)
> >>
> >>        >  >   ComputerTapeCartridge (1)
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >
> >>
> >>        >  >  -------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> >> ---
> >>
> >>        >  >  -
> >>
> >>        >  >  -------
> >>
> >>        >  >  All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure
> >> contains
> >>
> >>        >  >  a definitive record of customers, application performance,
> security
> >>
> >>        >  >  threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data
> and
> >>
> >>        >  >  makes sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense.
> >>
> >>        >  >  http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-
> oct<http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-
> >> oct>
> >>
> >>        >  >  _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>        >  >  Vufind-tech mailing list
> >>
> >>        >  >  Vuf...@li...<mailto:Vufind-
> >> te...@li...>
> >>
> >>        >  >  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vufind-tech
> >> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vufind-tech>
> >>
> >>        >
> >>
> >>        >  --
> >>
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> >>
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> >> <http://groups.google.com/group/solrmarc-tech?hl=en>  .
> >>
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