From: Peter T. <pet...@tw...> - 2008-05-24 07:28:31
|
All: Please join our scheduled Georgetown Release Meeting on Monday, 2008-05-26 19:00 GMT on IRC channel #twiki_release on the irc.freenode.net network. Please show up in time to save everybody's time. And remember that the release meeting is where decisions are made and everyone is welcome and everyone has a vote, not just core developers. Proposed agenda: 1. Review Urgent Bugs with 4.2.1 scope 2. Feature requests for Georgetown Release The meeting minutes topic for Monday is at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GeorgetownReleaseMeeting2008x05x26 We can add additional items to the agenda if needed. If you would like to bring up a topic, please document that in the release meeting topic before the meeting. This weekend is a public holiday in the USA, Monday is off. I will be away from computers over the weekend and might or might not be attending the Monday meeting. Cheers, Peter PS: Visit http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/xtra/tzdate to see current GMT. -- * Peter Thoeny, CTO - pet...@tw... * http://twiki.net - TWIKI.NET - the Enterprise Wiki * http://twiki.org - is your team already TWiki enabled? * Knowledge cannot be managed, it can be discovered and shared * This e-mail is: (_) private (_) ask first (x) public |
From: Kenneth L. <ke...@la...> - 2008-05-26 20:08:16
|
There was no interest - so no meeting. Guess that was the last release meeting. There is no point in having more core developers say they are interested in participating again. I will not be following the feature proposals any longer. There is no point. Kenneth Peter Thoeny wrote: > All: > > Please join our scheduled Georgetown Release Meeting > on Monday, 2008-05-26 19:00 GMT on IRC channel > #twiki_release on the irc.freenode.net network. > > Please show up in time to save everybody's time. And > remember that the release meeting is where decisions > are made and everyone is welcome and everyone has a > vote, not just core developers. > > Proposed agenda: > > 1. Review Urgent Bugs with 4.2.1 scope > 2. Feature requests for Georgetown Release > > The meeting minutes topic for Monday is at > http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GeorgetownReleaseMeeting2008x05x26 > > We can add additional items to the agenda if needed. > If you would like to bring up a topic, please document > that in the release meeting topic before the meeting. > > This weekend is a public holiday in the USA, Monday > is off. I will be away from computers over the weekend > and might or might not be attending the Monday meeting. > > Cheers, > Peter > > > PS: Visit http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/xtra/tzdate to see > current GMT. > > > |
From: Kenneth L. <ke...@la...> - 2008-05-26 20:10:44
|
Missed a word s/There is no point in having more core developers say they are interested in participating again/There is no point in having UNTIL more core developers say they are interested in participating again Kenneth Lavrsen wrote: > There was no interest - so no meeting. > > Guess that was the last release meeting. There is no point in having > more core developers say they are interested in participating again. > > I will not be following the feature proposals any longer. There is no point. > > Kenneth > > Peter Thoeny wrote: > >> All: >> >> Please join our scheduled Georgetown Release Meeting >> on Monday, 2008-05-26 19:00 GMT on IRC channel >> #twiki_release on the irc.freenode.net network. >> >> Please show up in time to save everybody's time. And >> remember that the release meeting is where decisions >> are made and everyone is welcome and everyone has a >> vote, not just core developers. >> >> Proposed agenda: >> >> 1. Review Urgent Bugs with 4.2.1 scope >> 2. Feature requests for Georgetown Release >> >> The meeting minutes topic for Monday is at >> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GeorgetownReleaseMeeting2008x05x26 >> >> We can add additional items to the agenda if needed. >> If you would like to bring up a topic, please document >> that in the release meeting topic before the meeting. >> >> This weekend is a public holiday in the USA, Monday >> is off. I will be away from computers over the weekend >> and might or might not be attending the Monday meeting. >> >> Cheers, >> Peter >> >> >> PS: Visit http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/xtra/tzdate to see >> current GMT. >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > TWiki-Core mailing list > TWi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/twiki-core > > > |
From: Arthur C. <ar...@vi...> - 2008-05-26 20:16:59
|
I am sorry you feel this way. I just came home from a tiring day in Germany. I work 3 days a week now in Dusseldorf, which is a 3.5 hours trip, so 7 hours of travel a day. We know about Crawford's decision, and we have not had a word from Peter about the Core team and TWiki Governance. Sven cannot attend at this time of day. Arthur On 26-mei-2008, at 22:12, Kenneth Lavrsen wrote: > Missed a word > > s/There is no point in having more core developers say they are > interested in participating again/There is no point in having UNTIL > more > core developers say they are interested in participating again > > > > Kenneth Lavrsen wrote: >> There was no interest - so no meeting. >> >> Guess that was the last release meeting. There is no point in having >> more core developers say they are interested in participating again. >> >> I will not be following the feature proposals any longer. There is >> no point. >> >> Kenneth >> >> Peter Thoeny wrote: >> >>> All: >>> >>> Please join our scheduled Georgetown Release Meeting >>> on Monday, 2008-05-26 19:00 GMT on IRC channel >>> #twiki_release on the irc.freenode.net network. >>> >>> Please show up in time to save everybody's time. And >>> remember that the release meeting is where decisions >>> are made and everyone is welcome and everyone has a >>> vote, not just core developers. >>> >>> Proposed agenda: >>> >>> 1. Review Urgent Bugs with 4.2.1 scope >>> 2. Feature requests for Georgetown Release >>> >>> The meeting minutes topic for Monday is at >>> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/ >>> GeorgetownReleaseMeeting2008x05x26 >>> >>> We can add additional items to the agenda if needed. >>> If you would like to bring up a topic, please document >>> that in the release meeting topic before the meeting. >>> >>> This weekend is a public holiday in the USA, Monday >>> is off. I will be away from computers over the weekend >>> and might or might not be attending the Monday meeting. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> PS: Visit http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/xtra/tzdate to see >>> current GMT. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft >> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> TWiki-Core mailing list >> TWi...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/twiki-core >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > TWiki-Core mailing list > TWi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/twiki-core |
From: Kenneth L. <ke...@la...> - 2008-05-26 20:39:56
|
Arthur Clemens wrote: > I am sorry you feel this way. I just came home from a tiring day in > Germany. I work 3 days a week now in Dusseldorf, which is a 3.5 hours > trip, so 7 hours of travel a day. > Maybe you want the meeting moved in time? > We know about Crawford's decision, Yes. Very sad. And disappointing. > and we have not had a word from > Peter about the Core team and TWiki Governance. > Very sad too. And disappointing too. > Sven cannot attend at this time of day. > That we know. We moved the meeting earlier because we wanted more European participation and Sven could not make it the one hour later either. Noone expects Sven to be there! The earth is round. We cannot change this. > Arthur > > There is no point in having a meeting noone shows up to! This is not just how I feel. I cannot have a meeting with myself and 2 others. If noone shows up there is no meeting. That is not an opinion. That is just a fact. Kenneth |
From: Gilmar S. Jr <jg...@gm...> - 2008-05-27 00:58:37
|
I'm new on TWiki development and I don't feel "familiar" enough yet, but I decided to comment this. I think that there is no need for meetings that just allocates bugs to fixers (most of meeting time is about it). They are necessary when there is some bug that really needs discussion about the fix (more than one fix available or side effects) and to discuss about points 2 and above (point 1 is always about bugs). I look at release blocker bugs regularly and didn't find yet one that I can fix in the time I have available (I'm very busy right now, but I hope to have more time soon), so I don't have contributions to release meetings, that focus on bug fixes in most of time. There is another minor detail: I can't access IRC at work :(. (I think I could solve this if I really had some contribution to give) I don't remember who suggested, but I liked the idea to have patch releases even if there are release blocker bugs, so users can benefit from some fixes. Gilmar - just my two cents. |
From: Colas N. <cna...@il...> - 2008-05-27 11:16:56
|
Sorry also for not participating since some weeks, I had a month with no time free. It should be better now. Gilmar raises an interesting point though. These meetings may be too time-consuming, being too "synchronous". Why not doing them in a more "asynchronous" way, with emails to raise urgent points (mails by Kenneth typically), and more informal IRC chats to weed out issues (drop on IRC and see it the interested people are there). URLs to the relevant emails & IRC chats being dropped on the relevant wiki page (bug&codev) for keeping people aware. As you say, Earth is round, having synchronous meetings may be trying to fight reality (and reality has a tendency to win :-) This is what we do at work, actually, to avoid long meetings. PS: "Personally I do not see a reason why anyone should stop contributing _because_ of the governance question." I guess this would be true at the first months/years of a project, but you must understand that having this governance issue still pending on such a mature project as TWiki is a bit unsettling. I am an amateur, so I have not a big interest in this governance issue, but frankly, If I was selling services upon TWiki, this governance problem would have been a major showstopper long ago. I know it must be hard to consider an hypothetical future for TWiki without Peter Thoeny. Hey we are human, nobody likes to plan for what will happen in case of disaster... (Divorce, Accident, Death, ...). but you owe it to your familly... Imagine refusing to discuss with your wife about what will happen to your house if case of split/death, dont you think she would grow more and more unconfortable? -- Colas Nahaboo, ILOG Webcore, http://colas.nahaboo.net |
From: Kenneth L. <ke...@la...> - 2008-05-28 06:51:32
|
Gilmar Santos Jr wrote: > I'm new on TWiki development and I don't feel "familiar" enough yet, but I > decided to comment this. > > I think that there is no need for meetings that just allocates bugs to fixers > (most of meeting time is about it). They are necessary when there is some bug > that really needs discussion about the fix (more than one fix available or > side effects) and to discuss about points 2 and above (point 1 is always > about bugs). I look at release blocker bugs regularly and didn't find yet one > that I can fix in the time I have available (I'm very busy right now, but I > hope to have more time soon), so I don't have contributions to release > meetings, that focus on bug fixes in most of time. There is another minor > detail: I can't access IRC at work :(. (I think I could solve this if I > really had some contribution to give) > > I don't remember who suggested, but I liked the idea to have patch releases > even if there are release blocker bugs, so users can benefit from some fixes. > > Gilmar - just my two cents. > > Two meetings ago I actually changed strategy and we now only go through a small selection of bugs. Before each meeting I prepare a selection of bugs where the bug itself is subject for discussion. Typically the question is "is this really a bug?". An example from a few weeks ago is Item5511. We have now reached the conclusion that there is a majority that think the current behavior is better and that we will not revert the current behavior to the old. But at the same time excellent idea has come up to make the current behavior more user friendly. But the walk through of all urgent bugs is a tradition from all the way back to 4.0.0 before we even had the feature request process, and I agree it consumes too much time. The main problem with noone at the release meetings is that the feature proposals people raise are not getting to a conclusion. Not even the proposers show up. With respect to patch releases with release blocker bugs. I have no problem with releasing TWiki with bugs. But I have a problem with releasing TWiki with bugs that are so severe that even the most common twiki apps are broken or where you cannot type text in any other language than English. 4.2.1 code has gone through a lot of good fixing but then suddenly bug fixing stopped and 4.2.1 had a lot of urgent bugs that not even 4.2.0 had. I am probably one of the people with the best overview of 4.2.1 quality state because I spend most of my contribution time testing the TWikiRelease04x02 branch. I test something every day. And in April-May we have had bugs you would not want your users to suffer and the urgent bug list was growing instead of shrinking. One thing you all need to understand is that before a release it is required that someone spends very focussed large amounts of test hours going through all features in TWiki. Not just running TWiki but also installing TWiki from scratch and installing TWiki in a combination of configurations. (ApacheLogin vs TemplateLogin, login name vs WikiName, utf-8 vs iso, with and without Localization UI etc). And as I do this I always find new bugs that sneaked in as we fixed something else. This time consuming process is something I normally start when the urgent bug list is below 5 non-docu bugs. If we just release the code straight from SVN because we think our SVN checkouts running in our favorite configuration seems to run fine then we are up for a major disaster. I am happy to see that the urgent bugs list is finally shrinking and we are very close to the level where I declare that we are 14 days from a release. And on top of that we seem to have opened up the world for TWiki with a reasonable utf-8 support thanks to Crawford. Let me just give an overview of the current urgent bugs that currently blocks a release in my view. There are the UTF-8 releated and the rest The UTF-8 bugs could all be deferred but since we are so dammed close it would be sad to see the work already done wasted. There are more utf-8 bugs than these but these are the ones that makes TWiki not work for the most basic features when running UTF-8. Item5529 SEARCHes of type word do not work if word is non-English and with TWiki running utf-8 - This means that unless you are English you cannot even do a simple search from the top bar. This must be fixed before we can claim utf-8 supported. Item5437 UTF-8 fixes for TWiki 4.2 I18N - is an incomplete set of patches received from a blog outside TWiki.org. As Crawford works through the remaining utf-8 problems this one may resolve itself. We keep it open because it contains some good info. Item5659 scrambled output on edit WysiwygPlugin is a new bug that has not been analysed and needs more info. It may be related to the utf-8 work and can be a side-effect of the utf-8 fixes. Item5566 WikiWords? such as VirksomhedskulturÆrø does not work in UTF-8. WikiWords is a very basic feature of TWiki. If WikiWords are broken in UTF-8 we cannot claim UTF-8 support. WikiWords with non-English letters works in iso charset today and naturally has to work also in UTF-8. And now the non-UTF8 bugs Item5638 readdir/closedir attempted on invalid dirhandle on perl-5.10 - Michael Daum found this and is waiting for feedback from developers. This is one of the bugs where developer presense at a release meeting could have made a significant difference. Item5443 Searches related to TOPICINFO don't work as expected - a consequence of the user mapping changes in 4.2.0. Many TWiki apps that presents who has edited a topic are broken because of this. Item5451 MailInContrib reveals error in Password.pm, that has been carried over to LdapContrib - I am close to declare this non-urgent. I did not put this urgent myself. I would have discussed the urgency at the release meeting. Item5118 Difference from 4.1.2 - 4.2: Apache loginname no longer works with access control lists - This is the bug that cause the most trouble for me personally. I am not motivated to spend weeks on a release unless I get the bug that give me the most trouble at work fixed. I have very angry users that have been forced to use TWiki by their managers that write me angry emails when they suddenly cannot edit a topic they made themselves because they happened to register after they created the topic with ALLOWTOPICXXXX = login name. For some reason especially my Chinese users run into this problem. Probably because I have not trained them like I have with my Copenhagen users. Item5602 Web Rename not following ALLOWWEBRENAME Preference - this is a security issue. We do not really want normal users to rename our webs. Just like we do not want our normal users to create webs. We need to fix this. Item5514 suppressTWikiSaveValidation and validateTWikiMandatoryFields Javascript errors in IE and Firefox - This is a cosmetic issue very visible to the users. The normal users sees every day these errors in his browser status bar. At least a work around must be possible to make. Item5657 Query Search broken when using text ~ 'something' - a bug introduced recently and I believe the fix is identified by Crawford and Sven and should be closed maybe already today. In summary. Still some hard work missing in utf-8 but we are very very close now. With the non-utf8 I think 5443 and 5118 are the only really difficult ones. Kenneth |
From: Peter T. <pet...@tw...> - 2008-05-27 05:09:09
|
All: I am sorry I could not attend the release meeting. Monday was a public holiday in the USA. I spent some time with my family up in northern California in the Humboldt Redwoods State Park - very peaceful and inspirational redwoods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humboldt_Redwoods_State_Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenue_of_the_Giants I can understand the frustration on lack of progress and participation. Like everybody else, I'd like to see a 4.2.1 release as soon as possible. Kenneth: It is in your hand as release manager to decide which urgent bugs can be deferred to after 4.2.1. You can make that decision even if only three person show up in the meeting. By definition people who care and have time show up, e.g. don't let a small team hinder a decision! On a positive note, we have seen many bug fixes recently. Many thanks to Crawford, Sven, Kenneth, Arthur and others who help make the 4.2.1 release a reality. Personally I do not see a reason why anyone should stop contributing _because_ of the governance question. Frankly, I think that not contributing because of the open governance question is not acting in community spirit. And personally I am more inclined to work on governance with helping hands. We can and should redefine/refine the way we operate, mainly with the goal to attract more contributors, to make timely decisions, to make them transparently, to resolve disputes quickly, and to have fun. Our release process works well; I ask everyone to use this same process in the interim for non-feature decisions. Let's use it until we have a redefined governance and (whatever becomes) the new core team. For now, let's focus on things that lift the community spirit, such as not delaying the 4.2.1 release any longer, and working on/helping out on sexy 5.0 features. Don't let us get distracted by other things. I am currently studying the governance of different open source communities. One that strikes me as very solid is Ubuntu, http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/governance. I think we can learn from them. Cheers, Peter PS: FWIW, a note on my workload; not as an excuse for slow progress on governance question. I work 12-14 hours a day, including weekends, half of that on open source TWiki. That includes TWiki.org facilitation, twiki.org support, twiki.org doc work, and recently the work on the new load balanced server, http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/NewTWikiOrgServer2008. All important stuff. Stuff that community members could help as well. However, history has shown that there is very little interest in TWiki.org facilitation work, http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/TWikiOrgWebsiteFacilitatorRole, so someone (e.g. me) is filling the void. On May 26, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Kenneth Lavrsen wrote: > Arthur Clemens wrote: >> I am sorry you feel this way. I just came home from a tiring day in >> Germany. I work 3 days a week now in Dusseldorf, which is a 3.5 hours >> trip, so 7 hours of travel a day. >> > Maybe you want the meeting moved in time? >> We know about Crawford's decision, > Yes. Very sad. And disappointing. >> and we have not had a word from >> Peter about the Core team and TWiki Governance. >> > Very sad too. And disappointing too. >> Sven cannot attend at this time of day. >> > That we know. We moved the meeting earlier because we wanted more > European participation and Sven could not make it the one hour later > either. Noone expects Sven to be there! The earth is round. We cannot > change this. >> Arthur >> >> > > There is no point in having a meeting noone shows up to! > > This is not just how I feel. I cannot have a meeting with myself and 2 > others. If noone shows up there is no meeting. That is not an opinion. > That is just a fact. > > Kenneth -- * Peter Thoeny, CTO - pet...@tw... * http://twiki.net - TWIKI.NET - the Enterprise Wiki * http://twiki.org - is your team already TWiki enabled? * Knowledge cannot be managed, it can be discovered and shared * This e-mail is: (_) private (_) ask first (x) public |
From: Partap, M. <Mar...@nu...> - 2008-06-23 15:36:13
|
Dear TWiki dev crowd, we here at Nuance want to migrate our TWiki installation from 4.1 to 4.2 soon. At the same time we want to switch to ldap authentication via mod_ldap/ldapcontrib (which i am busily debugging atm...) - probably not new to you that there still are some issues left ;) well the question i wanted to ask is, why is the support web inaccessible atm, or am i doing something wrong? Also i can not login.. i guess you are well aware of these issues but just wanted to ask this before leaving work. kind regards (and kudos for the terrific work to everyone!) Marcel Partap, Nuance Communications Aachen GmbH |
From: Sven D. <Sve...@ho...> - 2008-06-24 02:41:00
|
Hello Marcel, yes, you are probably doing something wrong. I've had no such issues using 4.2.0, though I have not used mod_ldap, I used LdapContrib and TWiki's built in templatelogin. Michael Daum and Andre Ulrich are probably best placed to help you, as they are in Germany (and Michael is the author of LdapContrib :) Sven Partap, Marcel wrote: > Dear TWiki dev crowd, > we here at Nuance want to migrate our TWiki installation from 4.1 to 4.2 > soon. At the same time we want to switch to ldap authentication via > mod_ldap/ldapcontrib (which i am busily debugging atm...) - probably not > new to you that there still are some issues left ;) > well the question i wanted to ask is, why is the support web > inaccessible atm, or am i doing something wrong? Also i can not login.. > i guess you are well aware of these issues but just wanted to ask this > before leaving work. > > kind regards (and kudos for the terrific work to everyone!) > Marcel Partap, Nuance Communications Aachen GmbH > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php > _______________________________________________ > TWiki-Dev mailing list > TWi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/twiki-dev > |
From: Partap, M. <Mar...@nu...> - 2008-06-30 15:50:35
|
Hi Sven, most of my problems with the ldapcontrib are sorted now (settling with templatelogin for the moment), it works sufficiently but i think for the cool auto-login ntlm stuff to work we need a new twiki machine (with newer pkgs than 2004) to integrate with mod_auth_ntlm_winbind.. And sorry if i did not make my point clear enough, I meant that I have to do some google cache trickery to access (almost) any content on twiki.org besides the frontpage.. for example http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev gives me: --------------- Forbidden You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/view/Codev on this server. Apache/2.2.4 (Unix) Server at twiki.org Port 80 --------------- Oh and by the way i had to do a small fix to ldapcontrib.pm to make it run on latest perl, the patch is attached! And.. Michael, you are not accidently located near Aachen somewhere ;) Regards marcel. -----Original Message----- From: Sven Dowideit [mailto:Sve...@ho...] Sent: Dienstag, 24. Juni 2008 04:42 To: Partap, Marcel Cc: TWiki-Dev list for developers Subject: Re: [TWiki-Dev] Access to support web denied? Hello Marcel, yes, you are probably doing something wrong. I've had no such issues using 4.2.0, though I have not used mod_ldap, I used LdapContrib and TWiki's built in templatelogin. Michael Daum and Andre Ulrich are probably best placed to help you, as they are in Germany (and Michael is the author of LdapContrib :) Sven Partap, Marcel wrote: > Dear TWiki dev crowd, > we here at Nuance want to migrate our TWiki installation from 4.1 to 4.2 > soon. At the same time we want to switch to ldap authentication via > mod_ldap/ldapcontrib (which i am busily debugging atm...) - probably not > new to you that there still are some issues left ;) > well the question i wanted to ask is, why is the support web > inaccessible atm, or am i doing something wrong? Also i can not login.. > i guess you are well aware of these issues but just wanted to ask this > before leaving work. > > kind regards (and kudos for the terrific work to everyone!) > Marcel Partap, Nuance Communications Aachen GmbH |
From: Partap, M. <Mar...@nu...> - 2008-06-30 16:04:43
Attachments:
ldapngplugin-followup-fix-for-maputf8.patch
|
> Oh and by the way i had to do a small fix to ldapcontrib.pm to make it > run on latest perl, the patch is attached! ..and here is the patch for ldapngplugin which i missed ;) |
From: Michael D. <da...@wi...> - 2008-06-30 16:13:14
|
On Monday 30 June 2008, Partap, Marcel wrote: > Oh and by the way i had to do a small fix to ldapcontrib.pm to make it > run on latest perl, the patch is attached! Thanks for the patch. Looks good. I'll add it to the next beta right away. > And.. Michael, you are not accidently located near Aachen somewhere ;) No, I am in Hamburg. That's still EU ... ;) Regards, Michael. -- -- Michael Daum Consulting -- Your TWiki Software Partner -- WikiRing Consultant -- http://michaeldaumconsulting.com -- Tel: +49 (0)40 21 99 27 51 |