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Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Mods Proposal (was RE: Moving some old unmaintened features to mods)
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From: Pascal K. <pas...@gm...> - 2008-10-30 15:23:09
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Hello, So, it seems Galaxia has friends who never used it (can somebody who is using this feature now please tell us... could somebody who used it on a real site in production with real users tell us too please.... ). Some people are expecting to use it or to work on it in some weeks ..... It seems many people had in the past this approach.... last "real" commits (not capitalization, auto merge, etc..) where early 2004 ! Now that this code is expecting going out fom tikiwiki, galaxia (tikisheets too) has (new) friends..... In the past months, I tried to use galaxia.....there's some work to do to have it functionnal... which was, obviously, never done. Could we not create an experimental branch now for galaxia for people who plan to work on it and put it in mods. In that way, it will be easy for developers to work on it and to put it again in trunk once it is enhanced ? I would vote for this. my 2 cents pkdille 2008/10/30 Jonny B <jm...@no...> > > Hmm – ok, sounds like Galaxia needs to stay (but could we please change the > installer so it doesn't require you to change the perms on > /lib/Galaxia/processes? for some reason i hate digging down to that one! :) > Actually i think that applies to most of those change perms for stuff you > never use – but that's another thread... > > It does look like from the page (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/MoveToMods30)<http://dev.tikiwiki.org/MoveToMods30%29>that there are a few features with no friends (games etc) so that looks > promising, but... > > *How about we look at this a different way? *"*This*" if you recall being: > > "core + 3rd party plugin extensibility" model [...] getting better > software. > > > What if we offered different a few different "packages" of Tiki? A range of > installs from "Lite" (core/wiki & say filegals), through "Community" (with > forums, blogs etc) to "Full" (which is obviously... er, full!). > > Note: i am *not* suggesting any sort of forking off here! But using some > sort of scripting wizardry, different tarballs can be made from the same > code-base, with some more magic to ensure you can transfer between the > versions without too much pain when you work out you started off with the > wrong one? > > I think this has great possibilities and possibly ties up with the new (and > impressive looking) profiles system. Maybe it could even be considered for > 3.0? > > Maybe this idea's been around before – seems obvious to me now, but what do > you think? > > jb > > > on 30/10/08 02:02, ma...@gm... at ma...@gm... wrote: > > Mike you are not alone! I to think galaxia is important and plan to use it > in the near future. > > So please don't move/delete it! > > Matwho > > On 29 Oct 2008, at 21:44, "Kerr, Michael E (Mike)" < > mik...@ve...> wrote: > > Maybe we should define what the "core" of Tiki is. Lots of people download > it and don't use the Directory feature, yet there are some that do. Lots of > people don't use the Forums, some do. Lots don't use Articles, some do. > Aside from the Wiki and perhaps the file/image galleries, and maybe to a > certain extent the trackers, you could run down the entire list of features > that we have and find that half of them are utilized by 10% or less of Tiki > installations. That may be an exaggeration, but the philosophy has always > been to have as many options available to people out of the box. > > Granted, Galaxia is a beast to figure out and get working, yet people have, > and it is an integral part of their installations. Some of the other > features out there like games, graph, wiki3d, referrerstats, newsreader, > minical, all of these I would be hard-pressed to find people using them, and > more importantly, of the people who are, these things don't figure as > critical elements of their install. Moving them to mods makes sense. > > Content Management Systems are about productivity, so I don't see why we > would do away with a feature that is meant to do that. Its problem is that > it is hard to understand, buggy, and extremely not user-friendly. I know > we're trying to improve Tiki, but Galaxia is the same as any other part of > Tiki that has had renewed focus of late….things are hard to understand > (setup), buggy (wysiwyg editor), and not user-friendly (trackers, plugins). > The only difference is that it hasn't had enough people focused on its > development. Obviously I am an advocate for the feature and more > importantly for improving it, and seem to be a lone voice, so if you all > want to do away with it and try and move it to mods, then fine, but at some > point in the not so distant future when I'm back on a level-playing field > with respect to the development version I am working on, my aim and intent > are to revamp it and re-integrate it as a full feature and not a mod. It > doesn't make sense to me to have a workflow system added to a CMS that isn't > fully integrated. > > Mike. > > > *______________________________ > Mike Kerr > Sr. Internet Network Engineer > *(703) 886-2251 > mik...@ve... <mailto:mik...@ve...><mik...@ve...> > *"I didn't come here to be ordinary." > ** > verizonbusiness > global capability. personal accountability. > * > http://www.verizonbusiness.com <http://www.verizonbusiness.com><http://www.verizonbusiness.com> > This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the > addressee unless otherwise indicated. > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Jonny B [mailto:jm...@no...] <jm...@no...%5D> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:48 PM > *To:* Tikiwiki Lists > *Subject:* Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Mods Proposal (was RE: Moving some old > unmaintened features to mods) > > > Hi Mike - that sounds great and positive. > > The problems we now face i think are that there are just too many options, > some of the features are not finished enough for "normal" people to use (i > put Galaxia in that category i'm afraid – i reckon it's easier to learn PHP > than make that system usable and professional-looking) > > As we are seeing there is usually going to be one dev who must have each > feature in the "core" distribution, so on that basis we'll never get rid of > anything and Tiki 5.0 will need 1GB+ of space, have 78 pages of admin > options and be dead as a big beached whale. > > I'm willing to loose a few things i use and treasure (htmlpages, wiki-3d, > sheets) etc to keep Tiki healthy, on the basis that i only need them for > particular sites/clients and i'll happily swallow the overhead of keeping > them alive in Mods and installing them (somehow) in my sites. Hopefully, > this will force us to improve Mods and stop it being the code graveyard it > seems to be a the moment. > > So... do we really have to make *everyone* download/upload/install then > not use Galaxia? (pretty please?;) > > jonny > > > on 29/10/08 17:24, Kerr, Michael E (Mike) at mik...@ve...wrote: > I've never liked the concept of the Mods as a graveyard. I was doing some > thinking last night about it and I have a proposal for a module system that > would not only make it easier for people to create third-party stuff (let's > face it, what we have available now in Tiki is about the limit of what we > probably should make available in the main distro…especially if we're paring > out old pieces – that's not to say we can't make improvements and alter > functionality of existing features down the road) but would also allow us to > move some things away without completely getting rid of them. Features that > only a few people use for specific tasks are perfect candidates. > > Mods does not have to be a graveyard. The fact that we don't make modding > itself, or how to create the packages or how to distribute or install the > packages easy makes it a graveyard. If we improve on these things, Mods can > be quite viable. > > I propose a mod framework that would include prototype structures, a > permission system, centralized packaging repository w/validation, custom > plugins, and possibly a pseudo- or mini-API (nothing fancy). Granted, it's > a revamp in some ways of the current way we do mods, but it's definitely > more effective and scalable than the current methodology. > > I'll see if I can get my notes off paper and into a wiki page. > > Mike. > > > *______________________________ > Mike Kerr > Sr. Internet Network Engineer > * > (703) 886-2251 > mik...@ve... <mailto:mik...@ve...><mik...@ve...> > *"I didn't come here to be ordinary." > ** > verizonbusiness > global capability. personal accountability. > * > http://www.verizonbusiness.com <http://www.verizonbusiness.com><http://www.verizonbusiness.com> > <http://www.verizonbusiness.com/> <http://www.verizonbusiness.com/> > <http://www.verizonbusiness.com/> <http://www.verizonbusiness.com/> > This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the > addressee unless otherwise indicated. > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* Marc Laporte [mailto:ma...@ma...]<ma...@ma...%5D> > <mailto:ma...@ma...> <ma...@ma...> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:57 PM > *To:* Tikiwiki developers > *Subject:* Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Moving some old unmaintened features to > mods(was: RE: Software Development, the Wiki way on Montreal Tech Watch) > > Hi Patrice! > > This is a very big change and I think it deserves a good discussion. > > Charts (never really worked) and htmlpages (now can do in wiki) are also > candidates. > > I think that almost anything that goes to mods will be dead code. (Mods as > a graveyard) > > I agree some should go to the graveyard and some not. I think we should > coordinate on a wiki page, so this will serve as a communication tool as > well. Mailing lists are not good for this. I suggest listing on a page like > this: > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/MoveToMods30 > <http://dev.tikiwiki.org/MoveToMods30><http://dev.tikiwiki.org/MoveToMods30> > > And we should give everyone the opportunity for feedback. Not everyone > reads this list. > > Every time I tried to use mods over the years, it has not worked for me. > Will we move unmaintained features to an unmaintained feature? > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Mods <http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Mods><http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Mods> > Mods did not handle version compatibility (this mods is for version 1.9.x, > this for 2.x, this for 3.x) > There was no help / documentation for manual install of mods in case > installer fails. > There are command line instructions to run in online help, which is no good > for FTP users. > Usually, modular systems have a *forge approach where each > extension/module/plugin can have a mini community. There is no way to > provide feedback/ratings on mods. No way for people to know what works and > what doesn't > > I just tried to install TikiPedia in trunk and I got: > themes/tikipedia/theme/styles/tikipedia/index.php to > styles/tikipedia/index.php impossible to copy > > If we remove features that are used, people will have a disincentive to > upgrade. I am not saying we should't. Let's just be aware of the > consequences. > > Best regards, > > M ;-) > > > On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:14 AM, WEBER Patrice <Pat...@co...> > wrote: > > > More precisely, the following parts of TikiWiki are not maintained anymore > and are, in my opinion, not working or made for a very specific usage. I am > thinking about moving them to mods in order to allow users to install them > if they really want, but not package them in the main TikiWiki code. > > > ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/><http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/><http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tik...@li... > <mailto:Tik...@li...><Tik...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel < > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel> > > ze=3 width="95%" align=center> > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tik...@li... > <mailto:Tik...@li...><Tik...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel < > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > <http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/><http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/> > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tik...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tik...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tik...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > |