Re: [Tecomp-user] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [gobo-eiffel] tecomp compilation bug and eiffel script]]

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Hello Chang,

what you proposed down in your mail is server scripting. In your example
you used a php like notation. This requires an Eiffel module in the web
server (e.g. mod-php in apache). I don't know how difficult this is.

But if you just want to do server scripting, there is a simpler
solution. Just use Eiffel like python or perl and write cgi scripts. On
order to achieve that, we just need some small library classes which
handle the http stateless request response protocol for you. Having
that, you just generate html for the browser in a similar manner as you
do with php.

But recall that with server side scripting you cannot write real web
application (i.e. applications where the user has the same look and feel
as a desktop application). For that you need browser scripting (i.e.
usually javascript). All online shops (ebay as well) have significant
javascript parts in order to make it comfortable for the user.

Because Google wants to boost webapps (I think they do it to fight
Microsoft whose most profitable domain is desktop applications like
office) they invented GWT. The kernel of GWT is a java to javascript
compiler. This gives you alle the power of java in the browser
application. In a similar manner we can generate an Eiffel to javascript
compiler.

These are just some of my thoughts. I am happy to continue the
discussion, because after finishing standard Eiffel compliance I have to
decide on how to continue. Making just another Eiffel compiler which
compiles to c is not very promising. I would be happy to target tecomp
more for usage on the web. But before starting that, I need a clear
concept of the requirements in order to make something useful.

Regards
Helmut

P.S. I hope you don't mind that I posted our communication on the tecomp
mailing list. I have done that in order to inform other tecomp users and
possibly involve them into the discussion.

P.S. The keyword "is" to declare a routine is no longer part of standard
Eiffel. EiffelStudio still accepts it for backward compatibility.

Cheng-Chang Wu wrote:
> Hi Helmut,
>
> I've just installed tecom 0.7. It compiles on my Debian sid. 
>
> I'm not a web developer either. I'm just considering my future needs if I want to provide some remote service for my products through internet. I came across the GWT thing and thought if I want to do some web service, I would need something like GWT in Eiffel. 
>
> But I've just changed my mind;) I don't need something like GWT. Although it would be great to have. Because tecomp is an interpreer, I would like to use tecomp as a web scripting language. Just like
>
> <html>
> <head>
> <script type="text/eiffelscript">
> class HELLO
> feature
>        display is do print ("Hello!") end
> end
> </script>
> </head>
> <body>
> <script type="text/eiffelscript">
> create {HELLO}.display
> </script>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> I don't know how to achieve this now. But I'll study it. Maybe you could ask other guys in the comp.lang.eiffel if any one is doing web development and know who to embedded tecomp into a Web browser.
>
> Chang
>
> ----- 原始信件 ----
> 寄件者： Helmut Brandl <hel...@gm...>
> 收件者： Cheng-Chang Wu <che...@ya...>
> 寄件日期： 2009/1/14(星期三) 上午12:53:04
> 主　旨： Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [gobo-eiffel] tecomp compilation bug and eiffel  script]]
>
> Hello Chang,
>
> thank you for your response.
>
> I would be very interested in making tecomp a useful tool for building web appllications (i.e. use javascript as a target language). Thank you for the hint to googles GWT. It is rather interesting. I am convinced that web applications will become more and more important so it is good to invest some time and effort.
>
> However I am not very experienced in making web applications. So if I make tecomp to produce javascript I have a good chance to miss the actual needs of webapp developers. Before starting out, I would like to have one or more webapp developers who are willing to use tecomp and give feedback. I don't know if you are interested or know some interested webapp developers who could accompany the development of tecomp into that direction as friendly users.
>
> As I have said, I need some time to complete the Eiffel language (I still need to do agents, exception handling and garbage collection). After that I am going to do the backend work (either C/LLVM or javascript or ...).
>
>
>
> Regards
> Helmut
>
>
>
> Cheng-Chang Wu wrote:
>   
>> Hi Helmut,
>>
>> Thanks,  it's very kind of you.
>>
>> Although an Eiffel interpreter is very interesting, I think it still cannot attract enough people to work on such a kind of project. I know your will somedays develop tecomp into a real compiler. But there are  already EiffelStudio and gec, yet another Eiffel compiler compiling codes into C/native code/LLVM make no great difference for my daily work. Could you also take a look at Javascript and use it as backend before C/LLVM? An Eiffel compiler like google's GWT will be really different from gec and EiffelStudio, and will attract all of the existing Eiffel users who is doing Web development.
>>
>> GOBO/Eposix and part of SmartEiffel's libaries are under MIT license. If BSD or MIT make no great difference to you, maybe MIT is a good candidate.
>>
>> Chang
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *寄件者：* Helmut Brandl <hel...@gm...>
>> *收件者：* Cheng-Chang Wu <che...@ya...>
>> *寄件日期：* 2009/1/13(星期二) 上午4:09:34
>> *主　旨：* Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [gobo-eiffel] tecomp compilation bug and eiffel script]]
>>
>> Hi Chang,
>>
>> it has passed some time since we had our last conversation. In the meantime tecomp advanced a lot. However I have not yet reached full language compliance. It will take me one or two months more than I thought (it took me some time to make tecomp 32/64 bit little/big endian compatible).
>>
>> I have given the licensing issue some more thoughts and come to the conclusion that I will change the license from (L)GPL to a BSD like license (modified BSD, MIT, ...) in one of the next releases.
>>
>> Kind regards and a happy and successful new year
>> Helmut
>>
>>
>>
>> 2008/7/17 Cheng-Chang Wu <che...@ya... <mailto:che...@ya...>>
>>
>>     Hi Helmut,
>>
>>     >> And under which license will the Eiffel library be released?
>>     SmartEiffel team has
>>     >> released their Eiffel library under MIT license. GOBO and
>>     EPOSIX library is also
>>     >> under MIT license, will tecomp's Eiffel library also released
>>     under MIT license?
>>     >>
>>     >Would LGPL be appropriate for the libraries?
>>
>>     I'm not a lawyer, but they said LGPL is not appropriate for Eiffel
>>     library because the
>>     library and the application are not "linked" together. And
>>     according to what I've read
>>     in Wikipedia, I must be very cautious about the usage of LGPL for
>>     Eiffel library because
>>     I cannot give my customer a "linkable" object files of my application.
>>
>>     That's why most of Eiffel libraries is not released under LGPL.
>>
>>     Best regards,
>>
>>     Cheng-Chang Wu
>>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
>>     總會在某些時刻，突然想起舊情人？他 現在過得還好嗎？
>>    http://sev.search.yahoo.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>     
>
>
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