From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2008-03-27 03:09:50
|
Hi all, I just committed the unlocking mode to STK, and included three challenges (i.e. conditions that must be fulfilled in order to unlock something): - all tracks if you finish a race in each track (doesn't matter what position), you unlock the snowtuxpeak track - energy math class: collect 6 coins in a certain time in oliver's math class This will unlock the 'grand prix' mode (which is now locked :)) ) - Once energy-math-class is unlocked, you get a new win-gotm-cup challenge: if you win the GOTM cup against at least three computer opponents on hard, you unlock the jungle track. I am not entirely sure how easy/difficult those conditions are (well, all tracks is trivial), so for interesting challenges we would need some playtesting. Tracks, karts, grand prixs, and game modes can (currently) be locked, but we could easily add more checks (e.g. unlock certain gadgets, or perhaps 'look back', or perhaps even something as simple as using a wheelie - which might be good for a tutorial: just finish two laps on the race track in 70 seconds or so) - or unlock high scores (???) Well, we shouldn't go too much (people might get frustrated otherwise), but I'd say they add a nice incentive to play STK. As a start I have hard coded the challenges in STK (see new folder src/challenges); there is currently no support for using data files to define a challenge (which might be useful later: we can add new tracks, and the tracks would come with their own challenges to unlock them, making it easy to just have a track packages without having to modify the executable). Support for this is reasonably easy to add (as long as we go for a set of normal conditions that need all to be fulfilled, e.g. track="race" and number_of_laps=3 and time<100 ... if we want something like 'finish in X seconds and have 10 coins, or in Y seconds and have 5 coins' would be a bit more work). But I think as a first start we should come up with some interesting challenges (which would help us to define what tests can be added to challenge data files). Writing challenges is easy enough (look at src/challenges) - there are mainly 2-4 functions to overwrite : 1) check at the end of a race (bool raceFinished()) or a check at the end of a grand prix (bool grandPrixFinished()) You just return true if something was unlocked (false otherwise) 2) you can save the state of a challenge in the user_config file (overwrite saveState()/loadState()) - e.g. the 'all tracks' challenge keeps a list of all tracks that have been used, i.e. you don't have to race all races in one gaming session. Just look at any of the three examples in src/challenges. It's very easy to cheat atm (look at the supertuxkart user config file: you simply have to replace #f with #t for challenges that are fulfilled - so if you want to race all tracks and are too lazy to do the challenges ....). We might add a simple encryption algorithm - obviously easy to break (it's open source after all), but it would at least prevent the majority of non-programmers to cheat. There is a new 'challenge' menu item in the main window (which is only displayed when there is at least one challenge to fulfill), and a 'new challenge' menu will be displayed at the end of a race/grand prix if a new challenge was unlocked. We might add some special music :) Feedback and suggestions are welcome - and esp. some ideas for challenges - we still have two more new tracks (city and ... cliff?? can't remember atm) to be included, which would need a nice challenge; and perhaps the 'follow the leader' mode: so come up with an interesting/hard challenge - a hard to beat time for a certain track (without relying on finding zippers), or a high number of coins (e.g.: in math class you would have to get up on the ruler/book bridge and collect the gold coin to be able to make it in time; in race track you would have to get to the gold coin in the middle of the tires; in snowtuxpeak is a gold coin somewhere up in the mountain, ...). We might actually lock more tracks/karts, and add some easier challenges to introduce people (e.g. something simple as having to use wheelies to finish a track in time: wheelie-challenge :) ). Cheers, Joerg |
From: M G. <aur...@gm...> - 2008-04-01 00:26:09
|
Hi, i just SVN'ed up and tried latest stuff I must say I find the challenge very frustrating. In Oliver's Math Class, getting the gold coins on the ruler is very frustrating, it seemed to me like I was fighting against the physics much more than practicing skills. For instance sometimes when the kart got where the ruler starts it just stopped dead, with no apparent reason, and I had to move back, then slightly change angle, try again and eventually it worked. Another problem I met is that some karts (wilber, hexley) and constantly toppling on the side when trying to get on the rulers |
From: Robert S. <the...@gm...> - 2008-04-01 01:01:07
Attachments:
signature.asc
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Hi, M Gagnon schrieb: > practicing skills. For instance sometimes when the kart got where the > ruler starts it just stopped dead, with no apparent reason, and I had to > move back, then slightly change angle, try again and eventually it > worked. Another problem I met is that some karts (wilber, hexley) and > constantly toppling on the side when trying to get on the rulers The rulers in the OMC track suck ... and really need to be fixed. /me must learn blender someday. Regards Robert |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-04-02 02:35:47
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've set up my 4 gamepads (all different brands), quit stk, unplugged the gamepads, plugged them into different ports and they still worked! The dead-zone stuff works great too. On Mar 31, 2008, at 6:00 PM, Robert Schuster wrote: > Hi, > > M Gagnon schrieb: >> practicing skills. For instance sometimes when the kart got where the >> ruler starts it just stopped dead, with no apparent reason, and I >> had to >> move back, then slightly change angle, try again and eventually it >> worked. Another problem I met is that some karts (wilber, hexley) and >> constantly toppling on the side when trying to get on the rulers > The rulers in the OMC track suck ... and really need to be fixed. > > /me must learn blender someday. > > Regards > Robert > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/ > marketplace_______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfy8PIACgkQiDaKeiduzc6jZgCg2BDOpVfKkbPvZBkAVc8IFtfC HHMAoKFpAVGO25AIyn1LCUPbqqGaO8KK =0qwN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-03-27 04:13:28
|
Well, I hate to say this; I hate the new unlocking mode. The game is full of bugs now; the widget manager is always trying to display widgets with nob text, resulting in widgets with ???? Personally, the first Challenge (6 coins, 3 laps, 1min) is way to hard for young players; I can't even do it :) I do have a slight birth defect that causes me to have dexterity (among other-things). I know there are many people with worse cases than me. But since I'm 18, I know that there is no way in h*** that the average fat little american kid could possibly beat it.(I know some people who would get take about 6 minutes to go through tuxttoll! You should do like MK644, have three levels for each challenge. Let me say again I HATE THE UNLOCKING MODE!! Maybe you could create the fallowing challenges-- At lest 3rd place in all original tracks —> unlock racer difficulty 3rd in all tracks —> unlock jungle 4th in new tracks —> unlock "the island" 2nd in all tracks — unlock city and canyon tracks All tracks wold always be available in multiplayer and a "TimeTrial" mode (similar to tuxracer and MK64) I suggest you not lock any karts. Once you get support for ghost-players, you could add challenges that make players beat themeselves On Mar 26, 2008, at 8:09 PM, Joerg Henrichs wrote: > Hi all, > > I just committed the unlocking mode to STK, and included three > challenges > (i.e. conditions that must be fulfilled in order to unlock something): > - all tracks > if you finish a race in each track (doesn't matter what position), > you unlock the snowtuxpeak track > - energy math class: > collect 6 coins in a certain time in oliver's math class > This will unlock the 'grand prix' mode (which is now locked :)) ) > - Once energy-math-class is unlocked, you get a new > win-gotm-cup challenge: > if you win the GOTM cup against at least three computer opponents > on hard, you unlock the jungle track. > > I am not entirely sure how easy/difficult those conditions are (well, > all tracks is trivial), so for interesting challenges we would need > some playtesting. > > Tracks, karts, grand prixs, and game modes can (currently) be locked, > but we could easily add more checks (e.g. unlock certain gadgets, or > perhaps 'look back', or perhaps even something as simple as using a > wheelie - which might be good for a tutorial: just finish two laps on > the race track in 70 seconds or so) - or unlock high scores (???) > Well, we shouldn't go too much (people might get frustrated > otherwise), > but I'd say they add a nice incentive to play STK. > > As a start I have hard coded the challenges in STK (see new folder > src/challenges); there is currently no support for using data files > to define a challenge (which might be useful later: we can add new > tracks, and the tracks would come with their own challenges to > unlock them, > making it easy to just have a track packages without having to modify > the executable). > Support for this is reasonably easy to add (as long as we go for a > set of > normal conditions that need all to be fulfilled, e.g. track="race" > and number_of_laps=3 and time<100 ... if we want something like > 'finish in X > seconds and have 10 coins, or in Y seconds and have 5 coins' would > be a bit > more work). But I think as a first start we should come up with some > interesting challenges (which would help us to define what tests > can be added > to challenge data files). > > Writing challenges is easy enough (look at src/challenges) - there > are mainly > 2-4 functions to overwrite : > 1) check at the end of a race (bool raceFinished()) or a check > at the end of a grand prix (bool grandPrixFinished()) > You just return true if something was unlocked (false otherwise) > 2) you can save the state of a challenge in the user_config file > (overwrite saveState()/loadState()) - e.g. the 'all tracks' > challenge keeps a list of all tracks that have been used, i.e. > you don't have to race all races in one gaming session. > Just look at any of the three examples in src/challenges. > > It's very easy to cheat atm (look at the supertuxkart user config > file: you > simply have to replace #f with #t for challenges that are fulfilled > - so > if you want to race all tracks and are too lazy to do the > challenges ....). > We might add a simple encryption algorithm - obviously easy to > break (it's > open source after all), but it would at least prevent the majority of > non-programmers to cheat. > > There is a new 'challenge' menu item in the main window (which is > only displayed > when there is at least one challenge to fulfill), and a 'new > challenge' menu > will be displayed at the end of a race/grand prix if a new > challenge was > unlocked. We might add some special music :) > > Feedback and suggestions are welcome - and esp. some ideas for > challenges - > we still have two more new tracks (city and ... cliff?? can't > remember atm) > to be included, which would need a nice challenge; and perhaps the > 'follow > the leader' mode: so come up with an interesting/hard challenge - a > hard to > beat time for a certain track (without relying on finding zippers), > or a high > number of coins (e.g.: in math class you would have to get up on > the ruler/book > bridge and collect the gold coin to be able to make it in time; in > race track > you would have to get to the gold coin in the middle of the tires; in > snowtuxpeak is a gold coin somewhere up in the mountain, ...). > > We might actually lock more tracks/karts, and add some easier > challenges to > introduce people (e.g. something simple as having to use wheelies > to finish > a track in time: wheelie-challenge :) ). > > Cheers, > Joerg > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/ > marketplace > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel |
From: E. A. H. M. <coz...@gm...> - 2008-03-27 07:27:08
|
Hi, just a quick response: > Well, I hate to say this; I hate the new unlocking mode. The game is > full of bugs now; the widget manager is always trying to display It's our subversion repository, you know, unstable code; while we don't like bugs, expect that all big changes will also come with a big amount of bugs. On that same vein, I unlocked Grand Prix mode, and after I closed and reopened the game, it was locked again and impossible to be recovered by redoing the challenge T_T > widgets with nob text, resulting in widgets with ???? Personally, > the first Challenge (6 coins, 3 laps, 1min) is way to hard for young > players; I can't even do it :) I do have a slight birth defect that I must admit I had to try it 4 times; the third time I realized that I was not taking advantage of the boosters in the level, that I kept shooting other karts (and since explosion have such a huge radius at the moment, the explosions actually slows me down) and that I wasn't using the wheelie. After that, without much effort, I did it in 54 seconds. The next time it was over 1 minute, and the next 57 seconds. I'm happy we added this mode. Now, pay more attention to what makes you be late, instead of what makes you not be first; for example, both of my winnings had in common that I got a good amount of boosters, which tells me that boosters are way better than missiles. Another thing : I don't want players to complete challenges on their first try. 2nd try is OK. 3rd try is what I want; 4th and 5rd try is acceptable. Thought, for newcomers, I think that they would have to try this for quite a few runs, if they are not lucky. Maybe rising the limit to 1 minute and 10 seconds? -Coz |
From: Constantin P. <con...@ru...> - 2008-03-27 14:34:21
|
We could simply ask for the driver-level at stk-startup. On the first startup, one could choose between "kid"- and "easy"-Mode. An additional "hard"-mode could be unlockable from the easymode. every mode would have it's own unlockable features and be probably very consistant. Joerg Henrichs schrieb: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > [...] >> On that same vein, I unlocked Grand Prix mode, and after I closed and >> reopened the game, it was locked again and impossible to be recovered >> by redoing the challenge T_T > Oops - how embarrassing, it worked when I tested it ... before the minor > bugfix ... and the minor improvement. Fixed (r1675). Good new: you don't > have to redo the challenge :) > >>> widgets with nob text, resulting in widgets with ???? Personally, >>> the first Challenge (6 coins, 3 laps, 1min) is way to hard for young >>> players; I can't even do it :) I do have a slight birth defect that >> I must admit I had to try it 4 times; the third time I realized that I > I like that number :) I would have been quite frustrated had you done > it in your first try. I needed 3 tries, but had the advantage that I > knew the solution :) > >> was not taking advantage of the boosters in the level, that I kept >> shooting other karts (and since explosion have such a huge radius at >> the moment, the explosions actually slows me down) and that I wasn't > *grin* Secret 1: you don't have to have other karts in the race :) > (we could obviously add this condition, but you can just drive by yourself). > >> using the wheelie. After that, without much effort, I did it in 54 >> seconds. The next time it was over 1 minute, and the next 57 seconds. > Pretty good. I found it quite difficult to hit 2 coins out of the 4 > (just after the paper plane) in each lap (though sometimes I manage to > get 3) - the other solution is to collect the gold coin that's nearly at > the end of the lap (usually hidden behind the banana) - it's not too > difficult to get it with hardly any slow down. > > >> I'm happy we added this mode. Now, pay more attention to what makes >> you be late, instead of what makes you not be first; for example, both >> of my winnings had in common that I got a good amount of boosters, >> which tells me that boosters are way better than missiles. > I never needed collectables, the two zippers in the track (and wheelies) > are good enough :) > >> Another thing : I don't want players to complete challenges on their >> first try. 2nd try is OK. 3rd try is what I want; 4th and 5rd try is >> acceptable. > I agree - but then again I see Josh's point as well: a certain > percentage of our players are kids, and they might get frustrated. How > can we balance this? > 1) we distinguish between novice challenges and normal challenges (and > we might make the harder AI levels unlockable). This way kids would > have some joy, but they would not be able to run all tracks on the > highest AI level, unless they unlock the more difficult challenges. > That might be a bit difficult to implement (in the menu, not in the > unlock manager, since we would have to keep track which tracks can > be played on what level - might be confusing for the player). Not an > ideal solution > 2) We select very carefully which lockables are meant for kids. E.g. > most tracks would be interesting for kids, so they should have easier > challenges, but e.g. the 'follow leader' mode might be too > frustrating for kids anyway (since people might get eliminated, which > isn't fun), so we could lock this with a more difficult challenge. > Not sure if there will be enough 'more mature' unlockables to make > this work. > 3) We offer two packages: kids version, "adult" version. Only difference > would be the challenges (we could #ifdef this, so it wouldn't be much > maintenance work). > Well, now that I have written it: I don't think that this is a good > idea, but perhaps it gives somebody else an idea or two. > One point would be to ask people who have kids playing STK for > suggestions (hasn't someone recently posted a question about track > design for his kid???) > >> Thought, for newcomers, I think that they would have to >> try this for quite a few runs, if they are not lucky. Maybe rising the >> limit to 1 minute and 10 seconds? > Yes, we have to find a set of challenges, which increases the difficulty > slowly, and teaches important skills (e.g. we make wheelies unlockable, > once it is unlocked, you get a new challenge were you must use a wheelie > to finish in time - a simple time trial without zippers, ...). > > Cheers, > Joerg > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFH645SLC0mrNKFwF4RAu4KAJ9CV2Q0oJ6W7rTLzfki+PHe1zN0HgCgiGFu > yfw0F3eU7vl5M0M1MlIxI6c= > =7qL+ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-03-27 18:20:35
|
The unlocking mode does have potential; it should be somewhat of a challenge. I just think that the challenges should be available for all modes and just have a separate menu that shows if it has been beaten in- novice, driver, or racer- that way we can keep it playable by all ages. On Mar 27, 2008, at 12:27 AM, Eduardo Alberto Hernández Muñoz wrote: > Hi, > > just a quick response: > >> Well, I hate to say this; I hate the new unlocking mode. The game is >> full of bugs now; the widget manager is always trying to display > > It's our subversion repository, you know, unstable code; while we > don't like bugs, expect that all big changes will also come with a big > amount of bugs. > > On that same vein, I unlocked Grand Prix mode, and after I closed and > reopened the game, it was locked again and impossible to be recovered > by redoing the challenge T_T > > >> widgets with nob text, resulting in widgets with ???? Personally, >> the first Challenge (6 coins, 3 laps, 1min) is way to hard for >> young >> players; I can't even do it :) > > I must admit I had to try it 4 times; the third time I realized that I > was not taking advantage of the boosters in the level, that I kept > shooting other karts (and since explosion have such a huge radius at > the moment, the explosions actually slows me down) and that I wasn't > using the wheelie. After that, without much effort, I did it in 54 > seconds. The next time it was over 1 minute, and the next 57 seconds. > > I'm happy we added this mode. Now, pay more attention to what makes > you be late, instead of what makes you not be first; for example, both > of my winnings had in common that I got a good amount of boosters, > which tells me that boosters are way better than missiles. > > Another thing : I don't want players to complete challenges on their > first try. 2nd try is OK. 3rd try is what I want; 4th and 5rd try is > acceptable. Thought, for newcomers, I think that they would have to > try this for quite a few runs, if they are not lucky. Maybe rising the > limit to 1 minute and 10 seconds? > > -Coz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/ > marketplace > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-03-27 18:31:09
|
We could even change the backgroung image depending on what mod the choose. There is only one problem with having to choose at start-up, you choose the first time then you get really annoyed if you have to choose every-time you start ./src/supertuxkart On Mar 27, 2008, at 7:33 AM, Constantin Pelikan wrote: > We could simply ask for the driver-level at stk-startup. On the first > startup, one could choose between "kid"- and "easy"-Mode. An > additional > "hard"-mode could be unlockable from the easymode. > every mode would have it's own unlockable features and be probably > very > consistant. > > Joerg Henrichs schrieb: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Hi, >> >> [...] >>> On that same vein, I unlocked Grand Prix mode, and after I closed >>> and >>> reopened the game, it was locked again and impossible to be >>> recovered >>> by redoing the challenge T_T >> Oops - how embarrassing, it worked when I tested it ... before the >> minor >> bugfix ... and the minor improvement. Fixed (r1675). Good new: you >> don't >> have to redo the challenge :) >> >>>> widgets with nob text, resulting in widgets with ???? Personally, >>>> the first Challenge (6 coins, 3 laps, 1min) is way to hard for >>>> young >>>> players; I can't even do it :) I do have a slight birth >>>> defect that >>> I must admit I had to try it 4 times; the third time I realized >>> that I >> I like that number :) I would have been quite frustrated had you >> done >> it in your first try. I needed 3 tries, but had the advantage that I >> knew the solution :) >> >>> was not taking advantage of the boosters in the level, that I kept >>> shooting other karts (and since explosion have such a huge radius at >>> the moment, the explosions actually slows me down) and that I wasn't >> *grin* Secret 1: you don't have to have other karts in the race :) >> (we could obviously add this condition, but you can just drive by >> yourself). >> >>> using the wheelie. After that, without much effort, I did it in 54 >>> seconds. The next time it was over 1 minute, and the next 57 >>> seconds. >> Pretty good. I found it quite difficult to hit 2 coins out of the 4 >> (just after the paper plane) in each lap (though sometimes I >> manage to >> get 3) - the other solution is to collect the gold coin that's >> nearly at >> the end of the lap (usually hidden behind the banana) - it's not too >> difficult to get it with hardly any slow down. >> >> >>> I'm happy we added this mode. Now, pay more attention to what makes >>> you be late, instead of what makes you not be first; for example, >>> both >>> of my winnings had in common that I got a good amount of boosters, >>> which tells me that boosters are way better than missiles. >> I never needed collectables, the two zippers in the track (and >> wheelies) >> are good enough :) >> >>> Another thing : I don't want players to complete challenges on their >>> first try. 2nd try is OK. 3rd try is what I want; 4th and 5rd try is >>> acceptable. >> I agree - but then again I see Josh's point as well: a certain >> percentage of our players are kids, and they might get frustrated. >> How >> can we balance this? >> 1) we distinguish between novice challenges and normal challenges >> (and >> we might make the harder AI levels unlockable). This way kids >> would >> have some joy, but they would not be able to run all tracks on the >> highest AI level, unless they unlock the more difficult >> challenges. >> That might be a bit difficult to implement (in the menu, not in >> the >> unlock manager, since we would have to keep track which tracks can >> be played on what level - might be confusing for the player). >> Not an >> ideal solution >> 2) We select very carefully which lockables are meant for kids. E.g. >> most tracks would be interesting for kids, so they should have >> easier >> challenges, but e.g. the 'follow leader' mode might be too >> frustrating for kids anyway (since people might get eliminated, >> which >> isn't fun), so we could lock this with a more difficult challenge. >> Not sure if there will be enough 'more mature' unlockables to make >> this work. >> 3) We offer two packages: kids version, "adult" version. Only >> difference >> would be the challenges (we could #ifdef this, so it wouldn't >> be much >> maintenance work). >> Well, now that I have written it: I don't think that this is a >> good >> idea, but perhaps it gives somebody else an idea or two. >> One point would be to ask people who have kids playing STK for >> suggestions (hasn't someone recently posted a question about track >> design for his kid???) >> >>> Thought, for newcomers, I think that they would have to >>> try this for quite a few runs, if they are not lucky. Maybe >>> rising the >>> limit to 1 minute and 10 seconds? >> Yes, we have to find a set of challenges, which increases the >> difficulty >> slowly, and teaches important skills (e.g. we make wheelies >> unlockable, >> once it is unlocked, you get a new challenge were you must use a >> wheelie >> to finish in time - a simple time trial without zippers, ...). >> >> Cheers, >> Joerg >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >> iD8DBQFH645SLC0mrNKFwF4RAu4KAJ9CV2Q0oJ6W7rTLzfki+PHe1zN0HgCgiGFu >> yfw0F3eU7vl5M0M1MlIxI6c= >> =7qL+ >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. >> It's the best place to buy or sell services for >> just about anything Open Source. >> http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/ >> marketplace >> _______________________________________________ >> Supertuxkart-devel mailing list >> Sup...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/ > marketplace > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-03-27 18:43:05
|
We should have some meter to show haw many coins we have during a race. take me 70 secs to get 6 coin on Oliver's math |
From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2008-03-27 12:08:54
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, [...] > On that same vein, I unlocked Grand Prix mode, and after I closed and > reopened the game, it was locked again and impossible to be recovered > by redoing the challenge T_T Oops - how embarrassing, it worked when I tested it ... before the minor bugfix ... and the minor improvement. Fixed (r1675). Good new: you don't have to redo the challenge :) >> widgets with nob text, resulting in widgets with ???? Personally, >> the first Challenge (6 coins, 3 laps, 1min) is way to hard for young >> players; I can't even do it :) I do have a slight birth defect that > > I must admit I had to try it 4 times; the third time I realized that I I like that number :) I would have been quite frustrated had you done it in your first try. I needed 3 tries, but had the advantage that I knew the solution :) > was not taking advantage of the boosters in the level, that I kept > shooting other karts (and since explosion have such a huge radius at > the moment, the explosions actually slows me down) and that I wasn't *grin* Secret 1: you don't have to have other karts in the race :) (we could obviously add this condition, but you can just drive by yourself). > using the wheelie. After that, without much effort, I did it in 54 > seconds. The next time it was over 1 minute, and the next 57 seconds. Pretty good. I found it quite difficult to hit 2 coins out of the 4 (just after the paper plane) in each lap (though sometimes I manage to get 3) - the other solution is to collect the gold coin that's nearly at the end of the lap (usually hidden behind the banana) - it's not too difficult to get it with hardly any slow down. > I'm happy we added this mode. Now, pay more attention to what makes > you be late, instead of what makes you not be first; for example, both > of my winnings had in common that I got a good amount of boosters, > which tells me that boosters are way better than missiles. I never needed collectables, the two zippers in the track (and wheelies) are good enough :) > Another thing : I don't want players to complete challenges on their > first try. 2nd try is OK. 3rd try is what I want; 4th and 5rd try is > acceptable. I agree - but then again I see Josh's point as well: a certain percentage of our players are kids, and they might get frustrated. How can we balance this? 1) we distinguish between novice challenges and normal challenges (and we might make the harder AI levels unlockable). This way kids would have some joy, but they would not be able to run all tracks on the highest AI level, unless they unlock the more difficult challenges. That might be a bit difficult to implement (in the menu, not in the unlock manager, since we would have to keep track which tracks can be played on what level - might be confusing for the player). Not an ideal solution 2) We select very carefully which lockables are meant for kids. E.g. most tracks would be interesting for kids, so they should have easier challenges, but e.g. the 'follow leader' mode might be too frustrating for kids anyway (since people might get eliminated, which isn't fun), so we could lock this with a more difficult challenge. Not sure if there will be enough 'more mature' unlockables to make this work. 3) We offer two packages: kids version, "adult" version. Only difference would be the challenges (we could #ifdef this, so it wouldn't be much maintenance work). Well, now that I have written it: I don't think that this is a good idea, but perhaps it gives somebody else an idea or two. One point would be to ask people who have kids playing STK for suggestions (hasn't someone recently posted a question about track design for his kid???) > Thought, for newcomers, I think that they would have to > try this for quite a few runs, if they are not lucky. Maybe rising the > limit to 1 minute and 10 seconds? Yes, we have to find a set of challenges, which increases the difficulty slowly, and teaches important skills (e.g. we make wheelies unlockable, once it is unlocked, you get a new challenge were you must use a wheelie to finish in time - a simple time trial without zippers, ...). Cheers, Joerg -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH645SLC0mrNKFwF4RAu4KAJ9CV2Q0oJ6W7rTLzfki+PHe1zN0HgCgiGFu yfw0F3eU7vl5M0M1MlIxI6c= =7qL+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-03-27 18:25:41
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'd go with solution #1 On Mar 27, 2008, at 5:08 AM, Joerg Henrichs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > [...] >> On that same vein, I unlocked Grand Prix mode, and after I closed and >> reopened the game, it was locked again and impossible to be recovered >> by redoing the challenge T_T > Oops - how embarrassing, it worked when I tested it ... before the > minor > bugfix ... and the minor improvement. Fixed (r1675). Good new: you > don't > have to redo the challenge :) > >>> widgets with nob text, resulting in widgets with ???? Personally, >>> the first Challenge (6 coins, 3 laps, 1min) is way to hard for >>> young >>> players; I can't even do it :) I do have a slight birth defect >>> that >> >> I must admit I had to try it 4 times; the third time I realized >> that I > I like that number :) I would have been quite frustrated had you done > it in your first try. I needed 3 tries, but had the advantage that I > knew the solution :) > >> was not taking advantage of the boosters in the level, that I kept >> shooting other karts (and since explosion have such a huge radius at >> the moment, the explosions actually slows me down) and that I wasn't > *grin* Secret 1: you don't have to have other karts in the race :) > (we could obviously add this condition, but you can just drive by > yourself). > >> using the wheelie. After that, without much effort, I did it in 54 >> seconds. The next time it was over 1 minute, and the next 57 seconds. > Pretty good. I found it quite difficult to hit 2 coins out of the 4 > (just after the paper plane) in each lap (though sometimes I manage to > get 3) - the other solution is to collect the gold coin that's > nearly at > the end of the lap (usually hidden behind the banana) - it's not too > difficult to get it with hardly any slow down. > > >> I'm happy we added this mode. Now, pay more attention to what makes >> you be late, instead of what makes you not be first; for example, >> both >> of my winnings had in common that I got a good amount of boosters, >> which tells me that boosters are way better than missiles. > I never needed collectables, the two zippers in the track (and > wheelies) > are good enough :) > >> Another thing : I don't want players to complete challenges on their >> first try. 2nd try is OK. 3rd try is what I want; 4th and 5rd try is >> acceptable. > I agree - but then again I see Josh's point as well: a certain > percentage of our players are kids, and they might get frustrated. How > can we balance this? > 1) we distinguish between novice challenges and normal challenges (and > we might make the harder AI levels unlockable). This way kids would > have some joy, but they would not be able to run all tracks on the > highest AI level, unless they unlock the more difficult challenges. > That might be a bit difficult to implement (in the menu, not in the > unlock manager, since we would have to keep track which tracks can > be played on what level - might be confusing for the player). > Not an > ideal solution > 2) We select very carefully which lockables are meant for kids. E.g. > most tracks would be interesting for kids, so they should have > easier > challenges, but e.g. the 'follow leader' mode might be too > frustrating for kids anyway (since people might get eliminated, > which > isn't fun), so we could lock this with a more difficult challenge. > Not sure if there will be enough 'more mature' unlockables to make > this work. > 3) We offer two packages: kids version, "adult" version. Only > difference > would be the challenges (we could #ifdef this, so it wouldn't be > much > maintenance work). > Well, now that I have written it: I don't think that this is a good > idea, but perhaps it gives somebody else an idea or two. > One point would be to ask people who have kids playing STK for > suggestions (hasn't someone recently posted a question about track > design for his kid???) > >> Thought, for newcomers, I think that they would have to >> try this for quite a few runs, if they are not lucky. Maybe rising >> the >> limit to 1 minute and 10 seconds? > Yes, we have to find a set of challenges, which increases the > difficulty > slowly, and teaches important skills (e.g. we make wheelies > unlockable, > once it is unlocked, you get a new challenge were you must use a > wheelie > to finish in time - a simple time trial without zippers, ...). > > Cheers, > Joerg > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFH645SLC0mrNKFwF4RAu4KAJ9CV2Q0oJ6W7rTLzfki+PHe1zN0HgCgiGFu > yfw0F3eU7vl5M0M1MlIxI6c= > =7qL+ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/ > marketplace > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfr5owACgkQiDaKeiduzc7JzQCgwFsNOKB6agDkmiV0eoFiyMN3 A4EAoIc5pGCL5PISm7V/SA8c4FYi9VIB =NjME -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: E. A. H. M. <coz...@gm...> - 2008-03-29 01:53:53
|
Hi list, and now, a proper response. > Tracks, karts, grand prixs, and game modes can (currently) be locked, > but we could easily add more checks (e.g. unlock certain gadgets, or > perhaps 'look back', or perhaps even something as simple as using a I wouldn't like to lock an ability that can be directly mapped to a button like look back :S > wheelie - which might be good for a tutorial: just finish two laps on > the race track in 70 seconds or so) - or unlock high scores (???) > Well, we shouldn't go too much (people might get frustrated otherwise), > but I'd say they add a nice incentive to play STK. A challenge wouldn't be a proper tutorial. However, it could make it easier if we lock the harder tracks. > > I must admit I had to try it 4 times; the third time I realized that I > > I like that number :) I would have been quite frustrated had you done > it in your first try. I needed 3 tries, but had the advantage that I > knew the solution :) Well, we are developers, so I have no idea how much time a new player would take to beat these. > *grin* Secret 1: you don't have to have other karts in the race :) > (we could obviously add this condition, but you can just drive by yourself). I actually had karts in the race on purpose so I could get the booster from ? boxes. > Pretty good. I found it quite difficult to hit 2 coins out of the 4 > (just after the paper plane) in each lap (though sometimes I manage to > get 3) - the other solution is to collect the gold coin that's nearly at > the end of the lap (usually hidden behind the banana) - it's not too > difficult to get it with hardly any slow down. I think the challenge's description is ambiguous then; I didn't went after the gold coin because I thought that it didn't matter if it was a gold or silver coin. > 1) we distinguish between novice challenges and normal challenges (and > we might make the harder AI levels unlockable). This way kids would I don't like the idea. When someone wins a challenge, they could feel as if doing the novice challenges is not worth it, and do it just for the unlocking. > I agree - but then again I see Josh's point as well: a certain > percentage of our players are kids, and they might get frustrated. How > can we balance this? What about just having challenges that gradually increase in difficulty? @Paul: > My view is that with the present AI (which I am slowly working on:)) we need various challenges to keep the game interesting. Wait, wait. Someone is working on the AI!? ^_^ @Constantin: > I pretty much agree. And I want to point out one thing: unlocking > mustn't be as static as it currently is. We could implement "virtual > money" so one can choose, what feature he wants to unlock next. I don't like the idea of having virtual money. I understand the problem with 'static' unlocking, and apparently the people who made Smash Bros. also do, so what they did was to implement more than one way to unlock something. -Coz |
From: Constantin P. <con...@ru...> - 2008-03-29 04:16:20
|
I have played super smash brothers just for some minutes, so I don' know how they implemplemented unlocking. So how is it done? I could imagine that after passing a challenge, winning a gp or achieving a highscore you could choose wich feature you want to unlock. For an ordinary player it might be interesting to unlock tracks and karts at first, while a very talened player would like unlock a harder gamemode with better AI and really hard challenges pretty soon. It would be bad, if an untalented player or a kid couldn't unlock new tracks because they get stuck with a certain challenge. That's why I suggested to strictly seperate gamemodes for certain skills from each other. Btw: a cool feature for the highscores would be period-highscores, so there will be all-time highscorelists and lists with the highscores of, say the last 30 days or so. Highscoes of a certain week or month would be unusable for unlocking, since it would be extreamly easy to get a month-highscore at the beginning of the month while it would be extremly hard to get the highscore at the end of the month. period highscores would keep this very balanced. > > @Constantin: >> I pretty much agree. And I want to point out one thing: unlocking >> mustn't be as static as it currently is. We could implement "virtual >> money" so one can choose, what feature he wants to unlock next. > > I don't like the idea of having virtual money. I understand the > problem with 'static' unlocking, and apparently the people who made > Smash Bros. also do, so what they did was to implement more than one > way to unlock something. > > -Coz > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-03-29 23:12:25
|
I don't care for the idea of "money" either. I do agree with separate game-modes though; how about keeping a separate high-scores list for each mode? A lot of commercial games have a "kiddie mode" or something similar that is easier for younger and/or disabled players. On Mar 28, 2008, at 9:15 PM, Constantin Pelikan wrote: > I have played super smash brothers just for some minutes, so I don' > know > how they implemplemented unlocking. So how is it done? I could imagine > that after passing a challenge, winning a gp or achieving a highscore > you could choose wich feature you want to unlock. For an ordinary > player > it might be interesting to unlock tracks and karts at first, while a > very talened player would like unlock a harder gamemode with better AI > and really hard challenges pretty soon. > > It would be bad, if an untalented player or a kid couldn't unlock new > tracks because they get stuck with a certain challenge. That's why I > suggested to strictly seperate gamemodes for certain skills from each > other. > Btw: a cool feature for the highscores would be period-highscores, so > there will be all-time highscorelists and lists with the highscores > of, > say the last 30 days or so. Highscoes of a certain week or month would > be unusable for unlocking, since it would be extreamly easy to get a > month-highscore at the beginning of the month while it would be > extremly > hard to get the highscore at the end of the month. period highscores > would keep this very balanced. > >> >> @Constantin: >>> I pretty much agree. And I want to point out one thing: unlocking >>> mustn't be as static as it currently is. We could implement >>> "virtual >>> money" so one can choose, what feature he wants to unlock next. >> >> I don't like the idea of having virtual money. I understand the >> problem with 'static' unlocking, and apparently the people who made >> Smash Bros. also do, so what they did was to implement more than one >> way to unlock something. >> >> -Coz |
From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2008-03-30 04:59:20
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ReHi, > separate game-modes though; how about keeping a separate high-scores > list for each mode? A lot of commercial games have a "kiddie mode" > or something similar that is easier for younger and/or disabled > players. I get the suspicion that we might have to do 'two modes' - but let's see what other idea people come up with :) Cheers, Joerg - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Joerg Henrichs Luding Administration e-mail: jo...@lu... URL: http://luding.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH7yxOLC0mrNKFwF4RAgd6AKCCiVoqjuBkOaZGLwNbinVyQuDJHwCfSWWk rhwMmYRJPFtqHUITpFB7hNo= =oD3H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-03-30 05:04:01
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I agree! On Mar 29, 2008, at 10:59 PM, Joerg Henrichs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > ReHi, > > >> separate game-modes though; how about keeping a separate high-scores >> list for each mode? A lot of commercial games have a "kiddie mode" >> or something similar that is easier for younger and/or disabled >> players. > I get the suspicion that we might have to do 'two modes' - but > let's see > what other idea people come up with :) > > Cheers, > Joerg > > - -- > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Joerg Henrichs > Luding Administration > e-mail: jo...@lu... > URL: http://luding.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFH7yxOLC0mrNKFwF4RAgd6AKCCiVoqjuBkOaZGLwNbinVyQuDJHwCfSWWk > rhwMmYRJPFtqHUITpFB7hNo= > =oD3H > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/ > marketplace > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkfvHzEACgkQiDaKeiduzc6IdgCgymN80/i2fN800QNaN5y/DrbZ pTQAoJtZH2JHz3x1pOeBz1vHDYrdTw7v =YeC8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: Joerg H. <jo...@lu...> - 2008-03-30 04:48:58
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, [...] >> Tracks, karts, grand prixs, and game modes can (currently) be locked, >> but we could easily add more checks (e.g. unlock certain gadgets, or >> perhaps 'look back', or perhaps even something as simple as using a > > I wouldn't like to lock an ability that can be directly mapped to a > button like look back :S *shrug* It's just a suggestion. Imho having something to unlock motivates people, which increases the attraction of playing STK. After all, how much fun is it to drive the same few tracks over and over? But if there is a challenge, people (at least me :) ) tend to play it to solve the challenge - meaning that people get more fun out of STK, without actually giving them more tracks, ... - by giving them a challenge so solve, and a good feeling (perhaps we should add some kind of prizes they can collect, ...). >> wheelie - which might be good for a tutorial: just finish two laps on >> the race track in 70 seconds or so) - or unlock high scores (???) >> Well, we shouldn't go too much (people might get frustrated otherwise), >> but I'd say they add a nice incentive to play STK. > > A challenge wouldn't be a proper tutorial. However, it could make it > easier if we lock the harder tracks. Agreed - a proper tutorial might be better. But wouldn't STK feel to complex if it came with a tutorial? A nicely designed system of challenges might introduce people similarly: after driving (say) 4 tracks a new challenge pops up: "Use wheelies to finish the race track in 30 seconds" (or so). The other question: what is a harder track? [...] > I think the challenge's description is ambiguous then; I didn't went > after the gold coin because I thought that it didn't matter if it was > a gold or silver coin. Good point - we need a word for the energy collected in coins to rephrase that challenge (well, it is solveable without gold coins). Or a description somewhere that a gold coin is the same as 5 silver coins. >> 1) we distinguish between novice challenges and normal challenges (and >> we might make the harder AI levels unlockable). This way kids would > > I don't like the idea. When someone wins a challenge, they could feel > as if doing the novice challenges is not worth it, and do it just for > the unlocking. Perhaps I should rephrase that: all things could be unlocked with two different challenges: an easy one, and a difficult one. So if people are stuck with a complicated challenge, they can always just do the easy one instead. This way we would avoid that people are completely locked out of the game. >> I agree - but then again I see Josh's point as well: a certain >> percentage of our players are kids, and they might get frustrated. How >> can we balance this? > > What about just having challenges that gradually increase in difficulty? Yes, they should certainly do this. > > @Paul: >> My view is that with the present AI (which I am slowly working on:)) we need various challenges to keep the game interesting. > > Wait, wait. Someone is working on the AI!? ^_^ Yes, please let us know if you are working on this, in case someone else picks it up assuming that nobody is working on it atm :) (though then we would end up with two betters AIs :) ) Cheers, Joerg - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Joerg Henrichs Luding Administration e-mail: jo...@lu... URL: http://luding.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH7ynVLC0mrNKFwF4RAoXmAKCaOpHNemwPBOVKlvbtDdcA81ckNgCgtw66 buNOv1SpJoDIe0A2V0KlOxo= =6Rsp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: E. A. H. M. <coz...@gm...> - 2008-03-29 06:27:56
|
Hi, > I have played super smash brothers just for some minutes, so I don' know > how they implemplemented unlocking. So how is it done? I could imagine A simple google search 'smash bros unlocking' gives http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/supersmashbrosmelee/hints.html as it's first hit, where you can see how unlocking it's done there. They don't even tell you what can be unlocked or how to. It's mostly just things that they suppose players will do after a while, for example beating all the game modes or playing a number of vs matches. -Coz |
From: Josh M D. <jpe...@cl...> - 2008-03-29 23:03:18
|
I think it would be great to have a couple of secret areas in the game, but only a couple so it would stay exciting when you found one! On Mar 28, 2008, at 11:27 PM, Eduardo Alberto Hernández Muñoz wrote: > Hi, > >> I have played super smash brothers just for some minutes, so I >> don' know >> how they implemplemented unlocking. So how is it done? I could >> imagine > > A simple google search 'smash bros unlocking' gives > http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/supersmashbrosmelee/hints.html > as it's first hit, where you can see how unlocking it's done there. > > They don't even tell you what can be unlocked or how to. It's mostly > just things that they suppose players will do after a while, for > example beating all the game modes or playing a number of vs matches. > > -Coz > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/ > marketplace > _______________________________________________ > Supertuxkart-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/supertuxkart-devel |