From: Story, L. <Lenny.Story@Alcatel.com> - 2003-06-17 19:56:39
|
Phillips makes a chip which has onboard flash, and and built in Bootloader, so you dont need to have an external programmer. A working circuit can be built, and used with the freeware programming utility, with only a crystal, caps, and a RS232 Charge pump (MAX233). The Phillips 8051 is the idea chip... in my view... P89C51RD2 - 64k Flash, 1K Ram. -Lenny > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrey Vlassov [mailto:an...@ec...] > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 3:49 PM > To: sdc...@li... > Subject: [Sdcc-user] SDCC is ECE students projects (need a help) > > > Hello, > > I am working for UBC (University of British Columbia) as UNIX/Linux > System/Network administrator at department of Electrical and Computer > Engineering. Here at UBC they still use HC11/12 as main > microcontroller > in students projects. As many of us knows most development > tools are not > free for this microcontroller and microcontroller is not that > powerfull. > I try convince them switch to 8051 microcontroller and use > SDCC in the > projects. I found that there are many types/kinds of 8051 > microcontrollers around and got a little confused. By my > education I am > an Electrical engineer who graduate 10 years ago in Kazakhstan and my > speciality was "Automation and Remote control". Unfortunately my > experience with microcontrollers practically is zero -- I have only > theoretical knowleadge but never had real/production > experience. I see a > greate advantage in studing SDCC by students as it available for many > platforms and support many different microcontrollers/PICs > and what is > most important -- SDCC is free. I believe that switching students to > use SDCC will bring a new programmers and hardware developers > on Linux > platform. > I was trying to collect an information to put together so that > students could get a good start. At the moment it seems to me > that Atmel > is preferable provider of the microcontrollers as to program > it you need > only a few components to build a programmer. But personaly I would be > interested to have a home-brew programmer for Cygnal > microcontrollers. > But all my reseach on internet could not give any result for > such type > of programmer. I've subscribed to SDCC mailing list recently and was > reading posts. I believe there are many people on this > mailing list who > could help me by contributing small pieces of information to put all > together in one place. > I have started a website where I put information about > Linux/Satellite televitions/Video/Audio/Hardware/Hardware Design and > etc. But for one person it is very difficult (english is not > my native > language and I ask you to forgive me for mispells and errors > -- if you > will point me what is wrong and how to fix it I would be very > apperciate). I would like to bring a new people to use SDCC > and so that > they could benefit from your project. But as I said before for one > person it is very difficult. I have not that much spare time > to invest > into this website (I own company which I run most of my spare > time) but > if I have it I use the time for benefit of others. > > Website is available at next URL > > http://linux.andromedasystems.net/ > > My vision of the website project is next: new person/student > by his own > hands builds simple programmer for some 8051 microcontroller, write > first very basic program to get exited about it, gradually migrate to > more serious projects. > > For me this kind of project is very first/new and I do not > know how it > will go. I hope that I will get support from people as you > and students > to make the project interesting and usefull for everyone. > > And again I am greatly appreciate for any help, > > Andrey > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU > Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU > Hosting Partner. > Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly > Commission! > INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php > _______________________________________________ > Sdcc-user mailing list > Sdc...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sdcc-user > |
From: <bra...@ca...> - 2003-06-18 01:40:29
|
I have used both the Atmel 89C51RC2 and the Dallas Semi 89C420. The both have bootloaders and require only a level shifter (MAX232) to go between the processor and the PC. Both have free programming programs(although they are no compatable with each other). David Brainerd - WB6DHW |
From: Andrey V. <an...@ec...> - 2003-06-19 16:37:21
|
Dave, thank you very much. Could you share a schema for interface with PC? I am very appreciate your help. Andrey bra...@ca... wrote: > I have used both the Atmel 89C51RC2 and the Dallas Semi >89C420. The both have bootloaders and require only a level shifter >(MAX232) to go between the processor and the PC. Both have free >programming programs(although they are no compatable with each >other). > David Brainerd - WB6DHW > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU >Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU Hosting Partner. >Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly Commission! >INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php >_______________________________________________ >Sdcc-user mailing list >Sdc...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sdcc-user > > > |
From: Sasa C. <salec@EUnet.yu> - 2003-06-18 22:15:13
|
Well, I certainly don't intend to drive you away from 8051's and SDCC, but I think you are wrong about the mc68hc11s /12s. Don't flush them down the drain just because some salesman told you they were "old stuff". They are not bad at all (although their price sucks) and there is a working (and free in every sense) gcc compiler port for MC68HC11/MC68HC12, http://www.gnu-68hc11.org. There has been a lot of free stuff for the 68hc11 for years, even before we had Internet. Actually, Motorola has been famous for years for their cheap tools for universities program, which helped them seize some ground before the Intel back in seventies and eighties. I suppose that is at least one of the reasons why UBC "still use" HC11/12 as main microcontroller in students' projects. Don't be surprised if their salespeople come around one of these days and offer you some very reasonable priced development tools for their new competitor: HC908 line - their answer to PIC. Today there is no major microcontroller manufacturer who doesn't offer a lot of cheap tools and at least one completely free. NOT ONE. There is a sort of "religious war" in academic institutions, regarding the architectures lectured, which is driven by manufacturers. It should be avoided, for the students' benefit. They should learn to use each architecture most effectively, and to do so, they need to get to know them. I was raised on Motorola (6800 at that time), and I found it a bit hard to understand 8051 or PIC architecture later, when I needed to. But my lessons were useful after all, because I did work on Motorola, too. I can see that You came to the micro arena from the other side and You have a different point of view. Your responsibility to Your students is to make them familiar with most contemporary microcontroller architectures. Microcontroller design philosophies of Motorola, AVR and Zilog, differ a lot from that of Intel and Microchip (You should find a note, somewhere in SDCC FAQ, about why was SDCC nescesery, why gcc couldn't had been ported to some architectures), and you can't say which one will your students need during their carriers. Someday, they will have to choose a micro for a cost-sensitive real-world project and they should not fear to use the best fit device just because they don't have any expirience with that particular architecture. If you are on tight budget and your lab is already equipped with tools for Motorola, why don't you start with what you have and then expand gradually to other architectures? > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:48:30 -0700 > From: Andrey Vlassov <an...@ec...> > Organization: ECE UBC > To: sdc...@li... > Subject: [Sdcc-user] SDCC is ECE students projects (need a help) > Reply-To: sdc...@li... > > Hello, > > I am working for UBC (University of British Columbia) as UNIX/Linux > System/Network administrator at department of Electrical and Computer > Engineering. Here at UBC they still use HC11/12 as main microcontroller > in students projects. As many of us knows most development tools are not > free for this microcontroller and microcontroller is not that powerfull. > I try convince them switch to 8051 microcontroller and use SDCC in the > projects. I found that there are many types/kinds of 8051 > microcontrollers around and got a little confused. By my education I am > an Electrical engineer who graduate 10 years ago in Kazakhstan and my > speciality was "Automation and Remote control". Unfortunately my > experience with microcontrollers practically is zero -- I have only > theoretical knowleadge but never had real/production experience. I see a > greate advantage in studing SDCC by students as it available for many > platforms and support many different microcontrollers/PICs and what is > most important -- SDCC is free. I believe that switching students to > use SDCC will bring a new programmers and hardware developers on Linux > platform. > I was trying to collect an information to put together so that > students could get a good start. At the moment it seems to me that Atmel > is preferable provider of the microcontrollers as to program it you need > only a few components to build a programmer. But personaly I would be > interested to have a home-brew programmer for Cygnal microcontrollers. > But all my reseach on internet could not give any result for such type > of programmer. I've subscribed to SDCC mailing list recently and was > reading posts. I believe there are many people on this mailing list who > could help me by contributing small pieces of information to put all > together in one place. > I have started a website where I put information about > Linux/Satellite televitions/Video/Audio/Hardware/Hardware Design and > etc. But for one person it is very difficult (english is not my native > language and I ask you to forgive me for mispells and errors -- if you > will point me what is wrong and how to fix it I would be very > apperciate). I would like to bring a new people to use SDCC and so that > they could benefit from your project. But as I said before for one > person it is very difficult. I have not that much spare time to invest > into this website (I own company which I run most of my spare time) but > if I have it I use the time for benefit of others. > > Website is available at next URL > > http://linux.andromedasystems.net/ > > My vision of the website project is next: new person/student by his own > hands builds simple programmer for some 8051 microcontroller, write > first very basic program to get exited about it, gradually migrate to > more serious projects. > > For me this kind of project is very first/new and I do not know how it > will go. I hope that I will get support from people as you and students > to make the project interesting and usefull for everyone. > > And again I am greatly appreciate for any help, > > Andrey > |
From: Andrey V. <an...@ec...> - 2003-06-19 17:08:40
|
Sasa, thank you very much for information. Yes here at UBC in most projects students have to use HC11/HC12 which is quite expencive. One day I was asked for free compiler and I found http://www.gnu-68hc11.org But guess "Is it was used by student?". The answer is no. My manager is a great guy -- he is a developer of Debian Linux. One day he was asked to teach students how to use autotools. I came to attend the lecture as well. In beginning of the lecture my manager asked who uses Linux -- to my surprice in croud of the students rised two hands. When he asked who of them program on Linux rised only one hand. In the room where about 60 students. From here I learned that most of them have heard about Linux but almost nobody try it. Linux is great platform and nobody will able convince me about other platform. The greatest advantage of Linux is open source and price for all tools and programs. When I tell students what they can do in Linux they get exited but no more. What I learned from them is that most of the students use illigal copy of Windows at home. I had a talk with some chinise student (girl) and she said that Windows way better Linux and she knows how to use it. But it came a time when she had to use Opnet package. There was requiremet to make settings for some variables. I gave her a list of variables which she should set -- but then followed a question "how to do it?". I answered "But you said you know Windows, and this is easiest what you can do in windows". Similar happend with programming in windows and Linux -- they mainly use generators to generate code. I agree that in some conditions it will speed up development but in this case we should forget about optimisation at all. I recall as in 1993 I was working with some girl in our lab who was database programmer (DBASE/FoxPro). And I have seen how she was using form generator and after that manually she throw away 2/3 generated code -- because it was useless code. I am not surprised that MS Windows has so many problems and that hardware requirements so high. My goal is convince the people to use Linux and start to develop hardware on Linux platform from something very simple in very beginnig and moving toward complex projects. I would like see the students make usefull projects for their homes, friends, parents -- so that it was interesting for them and they did not have to spend fortune to build the projects. Sasa, thank you very much and I will learn more about HC11/HC12 as it already available here. I would greatly appreciate any your help for projects based on HC11/HC12 with gnu-68hc11 compiler. Andrey Sasa Crnobrnja wrote: >Well, I certainly don't intend to drive you away from 8051's and SDCC, but I >think you are wrong about the mc68hc11s /12s. Don't flush them down the >drain just because some salesman told you they were "old stuff". They are >not bad at all (although their price sucks) and there is a working (and free >in every sense) gcc compiler port for MC68HC11/MC68HC12, >http://www.gnu-68hc11.org. There has been a lot of free stuff for the 68hc11 >for years, even before we had Internet. Actually, Motorola has been famous >for years for their cheap tools for universities program, which helped them >seize some ground before the Intel back in seventies and eighties. I suppose >that is at least one of the reasons why UBC "still use" HC11/12 as main >microcontroller in students' projects. Don't be surprised if their >salespeople come around one of these days and offer you some very reasonable >priced development tools for their new competitor: HC908 line - their answer >to PIC. > > > |
From: Andrey V. <an...@ec...> - 2003-06-17 20:32:40
|
Thank you Lenny, probably you talk about next http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/applicationnotes/AN461_11.pdf Andrey Story, Lenny wrote: >Phillips makes a chip which has onboard flash, and and built in Bootloader, >so you dont need to have an external programmer. A working circuit can be >built, and used with the freeware programming utility, with only a crystal, >caps, and a RS232 Charge pump (MAX233). > >The Phillips 8051 is the idea chip... in my view... > >P89C51RD2 - 64k Flash, 1K Ram. > > >-Lenny > > > > |
From: The S. <st...@ch...> - 2003-06-17 22:29:15
|
That is the spec that describes how to program the chip. There is a utility called FlashMagic (http://www.esacademy.com/software/flashmagic/) that can program it so you dont have to write your own custom program. It uses a serial port, and has options for full in circuit reprogramming (with your own provided stubs). Like i said before it is by FAR the easiest solution. -----Original Message----- From: sdc...@li... [mailto:sdc...@li...]On Behalf Of Andrey Vlassov Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:32 PM To: sdc...@li... Subject: Re: [Sdcc-user] SDCC is ECE students projects (need a help) Thank you Lenny, probably you talk about next http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/applicationnotes/AN461_11.pdf Andrey Story, Lenny wrote: >Phillips makes a chip which has onboard flash, and and built in Bootloader, >so you dont need to have an external programmer. A working circuit can be >built, and used with the freeware programming utility, with only a crystal, >caps, and a RS232 Charge pump (MAX233). > >The Phillips 8051 is the idea chip... in my view... > >P89C51RD2 - 64k Flash, 1K Ram. > > >-Lenny > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU Hosting Partner. Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly Commission! INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php _______________________________________________ Sdcc-user mailing list Sdc...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sdcc-user |
From: Pavel C. <ce...@va...> - 2003-06-19 14:34:49
|
Hello, nice example how to use SDCC with 89c51RD2 chip is evailable here http://www.hwgroup.cz/products/rd2kit/index_en.html http://www.hw.cz/constrc/rd2kit/index_en.html RD2-Kit documentation contains a lot of useful information how to build cheap and easy to use evalution board for education purposes. What you need is to connect power supply and download hex file via serial port. with best regards CEBA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrey Vlassov" <an...@ec...> To: <sdc...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Sdcc-user] SDCC is ECE students projects (need a help) > Thank you Lenny, > > probably you talk about next > > http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/applicationnotes/AN461_1 1.pdf > > Andrey > > Story, Lenny wrote: > > >Phillips makes a chip which has onboard flash, and and built in Bootloader, > >so you dont need to have an external programmer. A working circuit can be > >built, and used with the freeware programming utility, with only a crystal, > >caps, and a RS232 Charge pump (MAX233). > > > >The Phillips 8051 is the idea chip... in my view... > > > >P89C51RD2 - 64k Flash, 1K Ram. > > > > > >-Lenny > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: INetU > Attention Web Developers & Consultants: Become An INetU Hosting Partner. > Refer Dedicated Servers. We Manage Them. You Get 10% Monthly Commission! > INetU Dedicated Managed Hosting http://www.inetu.net/partner/index.php > _______________________________________________ > Sdcc-user mailing list > Sdc...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sdcc-user |
From: Andrey V. <an...@ec...> - 2003-06-19 17:18:08
|
Thank you Pavel, somehow I was not able across this project for couple weeks of my reseach on internet. It is looks great project and what is most important it dosn't cost much to build it. I am very very appreciate your help. Probably I need already add page with credits for people who provided so usefull information. Andrey Pavel Celeda wrote: >Hello, > >nice example how to use SDCC with 89c51RD2 chip is evailable here > >http://www.hwgroup.cz/products/rd2kit/index_en.html >http://www.hw.cz/constrc/rd2kit/index_en.html > >RD2-Kit documentation contains a lot of useful information how to >build cheap and easy to use evalution board for education purposes. >What you need is to connect power supply and download hex file via >serial port. > >with best regards > >CEBA > > > |