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From: Darla S. <ica...@mi...> - 2007-04-17 11:22:02
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From: Igor T. <ig...@ta...> - 2006-09-04 01:39:36
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Hi, I just made a screencast showing a couple of things that can be done with crunchy, don't hesitate to use it or put it on screenshots, maybe the people interested can take a look :) http://igor.tamarapatino.org/recursos/scrvideo/democrunchy.html Thanks for such inspiring work, crunchy rocks. --=20 Recomiendo el wiki de SLEC para compartir conocimientos http://wiki.slec.net |
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From: Igor T. <ig...@ta...> - 2006-08-21 03:34:12
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Hi Andree, I'm really impressed by the good work you are doing with Crunchy Frog, as I told you in the past about the lessons of rur-ple, the teacher with the students are translating those[1], I know that with your new work, they'll be outdated, but as soon as they are ready, we will be sending them. We will be making some revisions before sending anything. 1.https://www.gfc.edu.co/traduccion/CoordinacionTraduccionRurPleLessons Thanks for everything, keep with the good work :) Andre> Hi Tom- Andre>=20 Andre> Welcome to the list. Actually, very few people are subscribed to th= is list. Andre>=20 Andre> This program was developed by a single person (me) with some guidance Andre> early on from more experienced programmers involved in the Guido van Andre> Robot project, in particular Stas Zykiewicz. Luis Serada contributed Andre> the Spanish translation, and a few people sent in minor code changes Andre> (mostly to make things work properly with Mac OS and, sometimes, Lin= ux Andre> - as I develop on a Windows computer.) Andre>=20 Andre> A German translation would be *most* welcome. Ideally, two things a= re Andre> required at mimimum for a given translation: Andre> the welcome html page and the ".po" file. The file "template.po" can Andre> be used as a starting point - and the program poedit can be used with Andre> it. Andre>=20 Andre> Development on rur-ple has come to a standstill lately. This is Andre> because I have started a new project http://crunchy.sourceforge.net Andre> which will supersede rur-ple. Crunchy's aim is to transform Andre> html-based Python tutorials into interactive sessions within a web Andre> browser; currently, only Firefox is supported. Crunchy is coming Andre> along nicely and I hope that, within a couple of months, I will be Andre> able to incorporate rur-ple within it, thus doing away with wxPython Andre> as the required GUI. To use Crunchy, elementtree is required. (more Andre> details are provided on the sourceforge site.) Andre>=20 Andre> I've just finished implementing the translation "infrastructure" Andre> within Crunchy this evening, with both English and French available. Andre> (it is not available yet on the sourceforge site.) Unfortunately, it Andre> has some bugs in it due, I believe, to the way that Python modules Andre> interact with firefox through some javascript code. If you'd like to Andre> contribute at some point to the development of Crunchy, you'd be most Andre> welcome. Currently, we are two people working on it: myself and Andre> Johannes Woolard (who is completing his Google Summer of Code project Andre> on Crunchy). Andre>=20 Andre> Thanks for your interest in rur-ple. Andre>=20 Andre> Andr=E9 Roberge Andre>=20 Andre> On 8/20/06, Tom Bass <tom...@gm...> wrote: Andre> > Hi everybody, Andre> > Andre> > My name's Tom and I'm from Germany (right now living in the southe= rn Andre> > part) and work as programmer. "ShowMeDo" let me stumble upon RURPL= E. Andre> > :) Andre> > Andre> > I'm new to the RUR PLE list and just wanna to say thank you to the Andre> > dev(s) for this neat program. It's really useful in learning Pytho= n, Andre> > specially for kids. Andre> > Andre> > I'd also like to ask, if some help in development is needed Andre> > (translation, etc.)? Andre> > Andre> > My native language is german, so if you're looking for a german Andre> > translation, just send me a mail, also if you're looking for some = dev Andre> > help. Andre> > Andre> > Keep up the good work Andre> > Andre> > Tom Andre> > Andre> > Andre> > ------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Andre> > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, se= curity? Andre> > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your= job easier Andre> > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache = Geronimo Andre> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D26305= 7&dat=3D121642 Andre> > _______________________________________________ Andre> > Rur-ple-devel mailing list Andre> > Rur...@li... Andre> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rur-ple-devel Andre> > Andre>=20 Andre> --------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Andre> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, secu= rity? Andre> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your j= ob easier Andre> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Ge= ronimo Andre> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&= dat=3D121642 Andre> _______________________________________________ Andre> Rur-ple-devel mailing list Andre> Rur...@li... Andre> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rur-ple-devel --=20 Recomiendo programas para afianzar operaciones b=E1sicas http://www.ofset.org/gcompris |
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-08-21 00:42:56
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Hi Tom- Welcome to the list. Actually, very few people are subscribed to this list= . This program was developed by a single person (me) with some guidance early on from more experienced programmers involved in the Guido van Robot project, in particular Stas Zykiewicz. Luis Serada contributed the Spanish translation, and a few people sent in minor code changes (mostly to make things work properly with Mac OS and, sometimes, Linux - as I develop on a Windows computer.) A German translation would be *most* welcome. Ideally, two things are required at mimimum for a given translation: the welcome html page and the ".po" file. The file "template.po" can be used as a starting point - and the program poedit can be used with it. Development on rur-ple has come to a standstill lately. This is because I have started a new project http://crunchy.sourceforge.net which will supersede rur-ple. Crunchy's aim is to transform html-based Python tutorials into interactive sessions within a web browser; currently, only Firefox is supported. Crunchy is coming along nicely and I hope that, within a couple of months, I will be able to incorporate rur-ple within it, thus doing away with wxPython as the required GUI. To use Crunchy, elementtree is required. (more details are provided on the sourceforge site.) I've just finished implementing the translation "infrastructure" within Crunchy this evening, with both English and French available. (it is not available yet on the sourceforge site.) Unfortunately, it has some bugs in it due, I believe, to the way that Python modules interact with firefox through some javascript code. If you'd like to contribute at some point to the development of Crunchy, you'd be most welcome. Currently, we are two people working on it: myself and Johannes Woolard (who is completing his Google Summer of Code project on Crunchy). Thanks for your interest in rur-ple. Andr=E9 Roberge On 8/20/06, Tom Bass <tom...@gm...> wrote: > Hi everybody, > > My name's Tom and I'm from Germany (right now living in the southern > part) and work as programmer. "ShowMeDo" let me stumble upon RURPLE. > :) > > I'm new to the RUR PLE list and just wanna to say thank you to the > dev(s) for this neat program. It's really useful in learning Python, > specially for kids. > > I'd also like to ask, if some help in development is needed > (translation, etc.)? > > My native language is german, so if you're looking for a german > translation, just send me a mail, also if you're looking for some dev > help. > > Keep up the good work > > Tom > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job ea= sier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronim= o > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D120709&bid=3D263057&dat= =3D121642 > _______________________________________________ > Rur-ple-devel mailing list > Rur...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rur-ple-devel > |
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From: Tom B. <tom...@gm...> - 2006-08-20 09:13:37
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Hi everybody, My name's Tom and I'm from Germany (right now living in the southern part) and work as programmer. "ShowMeDo" let me stumble upon RURPLE. :) I'm new to the RUR PLE list and just wanna to say thank you to the dev(s) for this neat program. It's really useful in learning Python, specially for kids. I'd also like to ask, if some help in development is needed (translation, etc.)? My native language is german, so if you're looking for a german translation, just send me a mail, also if you're looking for some dev help. Keep up the good work Tom |
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From: Ian B. <ia...@co...> - 2006-04-04 20:50:14
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Andre Roberge wrote: > On 4/4/06, Ian Bicking <ia...@co...> wrote: >>One thing that occurs to me now, is that it might be possible to use >>just the language part of PyLogo for programming Rur-ple. I'm don't >>have any experience with GUI programming, so the PyLogo GUI isn't >>particularly nice, and I don't know enough to improve it. But I still >>think Logo syntax has a lot of advantages for young programmers over >>Python syntax. Because PyLogo is pretty friendly with Python code, this >>might not be very hard. Basically PyLogo creates and uses plain Python >>functions; there's no way to use objects or methods currently, and no >>way to do keyword arguments, but I don't think most Rur-ple lessons use >>these features anyway. > > > I'm not familiar with PyLogo, but here's a quick comparison of some > PyLogo code (from the website) and a similar example with rur-ple. > > ==== PyLogo > ??? to square :size > to? repeat 4 [ > to? fd :size > to? rt 90 > to? ] > to? end > Function: square > ??? square 100 > === end of > I guess that the above is an instruction to draw a simple square, with > "size" being used as a variable. Here are a few (untested) ways to > define a square in rur-ple, using Python syntax. Yes; this creates a square object with a __call__ method, so that "square(100)" in Python is equivalent to "square 100" in PyLogo. And "fd :size" is equivalent to the Python "fd(size)". So if you provide the functions from Rur-ple to the PyLogo interpreter, it can just automatically use them. One of the ways Logo/PyLogo does differ from Python is that "repeat" is actually a function (that also has access to the logo interpreter). So you really could translate everything without changing the interpreter (except "to", the one special form in Logo -- though with only one word to translate in the core language it's not too hard either ;) Oh, I think I made MAKE a primitive too, so that 'MAKE :var value' works instead of requiring 'MAKE "var value'... and looking at the source, LOCAL and LOCALMAKE are also special. The repeat function is defined here: http://svn.colorstudy.com/trunk/PyLogo/pylogo/builtins.py (just look for "def repeat") -- of course you could just alias it with 'make :repete :repeat', as can you alias other functions in both Python and Logo. The name "repeat" may still leak through in exception reports, though that might not be too hard to resolve. Anyway, in theory Rur-ple could make use of PyLogo if it did something like: from pylogo.interpreter import Interpreter from pylogo.reader import FileTokenizer from pylogo.common import EOF interpreter = Interpreter() # Where rurple_builtins is some module with the move(), turn_left(), # etc functions: interpreter.importModule(rurple_builtins) # This is a file that can map aliases like turn_left to gauche: interpreter.loadDefs(translation_filename) # This should probably be a single function call, but basically # it's just how the interpreter is invoked: tokenizer = FileTokenizer(input_stream) interpreter.pushTokenizer(tokenizer) try: while 1: v = self.exprTop() if v is EOF: break finally: interpreter.popTokenizer() Then just use this with input_stream being a file-like object taken from the editor, and probably redirecting stdout in some way. This will also give you a gvr-like syntax, except IMHO a richer in both functionality and history, though a bit further from Python syntax. It's interesting to think about a more Python-like Logo. Mostly I imagine it using indentation and :'s, maybe not using : for variables, and something special for if/else. I think that could still offer real educational benefits over Python -- especially at a young age, and teaching non-programming concepts -- but with a more comfortable transition into Python. -- Ian Bicking / ia...@co... / http://blog.ianbicking.org |
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From: Stas Z <sta...@gm...> - 2006-04-04 19:39:22
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T24gNC80LzA2LCBBbmRyZSBSb2JlcmdlIDxhbmRyZS5yb2JlcmdlQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6 Cj4gT24gNC80LzA2LCBTdGFzIFogPHN0YXNsaW51eEBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+ID4KPiBA U3RhczoKPgo+IEFsbCBJIGdvdCBvbiB0aGlzIGxpc3QgaXMgYW4gZW1wdHkgbWVzc2FnZSAoYWdh aW4hIDotKQpJIHN1c3BlY3QgaXQncyB5b3VyIGVuZCB0aGF0J3MgY2xlYXJpbmcgbXkgbWFpbHMs IHdoZW4gSSBsb29rZWQgYXQgdGhlClNGIG1haWxpbmdsaXN0CnBhZ2VzIEkgc2VlIG15IG1haWxz IGp1c3QgYXMgSSBzZW5kIHRoZW0gdG8gdGhpcyBsaXN0IDotKQoKPiBJbiBhIHNlcGFyYXRlCj4g bWVzc2FnZSAoaW4gRnJlbmNoKSB0byBOaWNvbGFzLCBJIGdhdmUgaGltIGEgcmVmZXJlbmNlIHRv IGd2cjsgaXQgbWF5Cj4gYmUgY2xvc2VyIHRvIHdoYXQgaGUgd2FudHMgYW5kLApUaGFua3MuCgo+ IEkgc3VzcGVjdCwgd2hhdCB5b3Ugd2FudGVkIHRvIHRlbGwgaGltCj4gOi0pCkluZGVlZCBhbmQg anVzdCBhcyBHdWlkbyB2YW4gUm9zc2VtIHNhaWQ6CiAiVGhlcmUgc2hvdWxkIGJlIG9uZSAtLSBh bmQgcHJlZmVyYWJseSBvbmx5IG9uZSAtLSBvYnZpb3VzIHdheSB0byBkbyBpdC4iCkknbSBnbGFk IHlvdSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kcyB0aGF0IGd2ciAqaXMqIHRoZSBvYnZpb3VzIHdheSB0byBkbyBpdCA6 LSkKCkJ1dCBhcyBHdWlkbyBhbHNvIHNhaWQ6CiJBbHRob3VnaCB0aGF0IHdheSBtYXkgbm90IGJl IG9idmlvdXMgYXQgZmlyc3QgdW5sZXNzIHlvdSdyZSBEdXRjaC4iCgooSSdtIER1dGNoKQoKU3Rh cwoKLS0KSXQgaXMgZGFuZ2Vyb3VzIHRvIGJlIHJpZ2h0IHdoZW4gdGhlIGdvdmVybm1lbnQgaXMg d3JvbmcuCiAgVm9sdGFpcmUKICBGcmVuY2ggYXV0aG9yLCBodW1hbmlzdCwgcmF0aW9uYWxpc3Qs ICYgc2F0aXJpc3QgKDE2OTQgLSAxNzc4KQo= |
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-04-04 19:14:42
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On 4/4/06, Stas Z <sta...@gm...> wrote: > @Stas: All I got on this list is an empty message (again! :-) In a separate message (in French) to Nicolas, I gave him a reference to gvr; it may be closer to what he wants and, I suspect, what you wanted to tell him :-) Andr=E9 |
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-04-04 19:09:34
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Thanks Ian for redirecting this question to the rur-ple list. On 4/4/06, Ian Bicking <ia...@co...> wrote: > (Since Rur-ple came to mind as I was responding to this PyLogo query, I > thought I'd CC that list) > [snip] > > Have you looked at Rur-ple (http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net/)? -- it's > also by a French speaker, for introductory programming. > And, while the GUI is translated, unfortunately the lessons aren't (yet.) However, please read below on a quick how-to use French instructions with rur-ple. > One thing that occurs to me now, is that it might be possible to use > just the language part of PyLogo for programming Rur-ple. I'm don't > have any experience with GUI programming, so the PyLogo GUI isn't > particularly nice, and I don't know enough to improve it. But I still > think Logo syntax has a lot of advantages for young programmers over > Python syntax. Because PyLogo is pretty friendly with Python code, this > might not be very hard. Basically PyLogo creates and uses plain Python > functions; there's no way to use objects or methods currently, and no > way to do keyword arguments, but I don't think most Rur-ple lessons use > these features anyway. I'm not familiar with PyLogo, but here's a quick comparison of some PyLogo code (from the website) and a similar example with rur-ple. =3D=3D=3D=3D PyLogo ??? to square :size to? repeat 4 [ to? fd :size to? rt 90 to? ] to? end Function: square ??? square 100 =3D=3D=3D end of I guess that the above is an instruction to draw a simple square, with "size" being used as a variable. Here are a few (untested) ways to define a square in rur-ple, using Python syntax. # French translations and abbreviations to be used below avance =3D av =3D move gauche =3D g =3D turn_left repete =3D repeat # first example, no function defined avance() gauche() av() g() av() g() av() g() # second example def avance_et_tourne(): av() g() def carre(): # French for square repete(avance_et_tourne, 4) # Now use the definition: carre() #Third example using explicit for loops def carre(): for i in range(4): av() g() #Fourth example, using a "size" parameter as per PyLogo example def carre(size): for i in range(4): for j in range(size) av() g() > > I don't know if Rur-ple has turtle graphics? I think I saw that > somewhere, but maybe only as a to-do. It is, unfortunately, still on my to-do list. Further questions can be sent to the rur-ple list or directly to me at and...@gm.... Je peux r=E9pondre en fran=E7ais aux questions qui me sont adress=E9es personnellement. Andr=E9 > > -- > Ian Bicking / ia...@co... / http://blog.ianbicking.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting langua= ge > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webc= ast > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territor= y! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat= =3D121642 > _______________________________________________ > Rur-ple-devel mailing list > Rur...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rur-ple-devel > |
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From: Nicolas P. <nic...@ae...> - 2006-04-04 19:02:12
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2006/4/4, Andre Roberge <and...@gm...>: > Thanks Ian for redirecting this question to the rur-ple list. > > On 4/4/06, Ian Bicking <ia...@co...> wrote: > > (Since Rur-ple came to mind as I was responding to this PyLogo query, I > > thought I'd CC that list) Thanks also Andr=E9 for the very fast answer. > And, while the GUI is translated, unfortunately the lessons aren't > (yet.) However, please read below on a quick how-to use French > instructions with rur-ple. I propose to set up an environnement in http://launchpad.net to help with the translation of the lessons. I would be ready to help with the translation to French, a piece at a time. > I'm not familiar with PyLogo, but here's a quick comparison of some > PyLogo code (from the website) and a similar example with rur-ple. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D PyLogo > ??? to square :size > to? repeat 4 [ > to? fd :size > to? rt 90 > to? ] > to? end this is indeed standard logo > Function: square > ??? square 100 > =3D=3D=3D end of > I guess that the above is an instruction to draw a simple square, with > "size" being used as a variable. Here are a few (untested) ways to > define a square in rur-ple, using Python syntax. indeed > # French translations and abbreviations to be used below > avance =3D av =3D move > gauche =3D g =3D turn_left > repete =3D repeat > > # first example, no function defined > avance() > gauche() > av() > g() > av() > g() > av() > g() > > # second example > def avance_et_tourne(): > av() > g() > def carre(): # French for square > repete(avance_et_tourne, 4) > # Now use the definition: > carre() > > #Third example using explicit for loops > def carre(): > for i in range(4): > av() > g() could a keyword like "pour" replace "for" and "intervalle" replace "range" as this would help a lot my little students (9 to 11 year old only) > #Fourth example, using a "size" parameter as per PyLogo example > def carre(size): > for i in range(4): > for j in range(size) > av() > g() > > I don't know if Rur-ple has turtle graphics? I think I saw that > > somewhere, but maybe only as a to-do. I'll look asap at how rur-ple works. > It is, unfortunately, still on my to-do list. I hope you can add this soon :-) > Further questions can be sent to the rur-ple list or directly to me at > and...@gm.... Je peux r=E9pondre en fran=E7ais aux > questions qui me sont adress=E9es personnellement. thanks, Nicolas -- Nicolas Pettiaux - email: nic...@ae... |
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From: Nicolas P. <nic...@ae...> - 2006-04-04 18:45:06
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2006/4/4, Ian Bicking <ia...@co...>: > (Since Rur-ple came to mind as I was responding to this PyLogo query, I > thought I'd CC that list) thank you for your prompt answer. > There's a file in pylogo/defs/turtle.logodef which creates aliases for > the turtle Python module (to make it look like Logo commands). I think > the same functionality could be used to add other languages, though I > hadn't considered it before. I'll look at this. > I'm not sure; I'm not really familiar with logowriter. > > Have you looked at Rur-ple (http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net/)? -- it's > also by a French speaker, for introductory programming. I'll also have a look at rur-ple. Thanks you very much. I'll read more about pylogo, test rur-ple and let you know. Thanks, Nicolas -- Nicolas Pettiaux - email: nic...@ae... |
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From: Stas Z <sta...@gm...> - 2006-04-04 18:08:42
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T24gNC80LzA2LCBJYW4gQmlja2luZyA8aWFuYkBjb2xvcnN0dWR5LmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gKFNp bmNlIFJ1ci1wbGUgY2FtZSB0byBtaW5kIGFzIEkgd2FzIHJlc3BvbmRpbmcgdG8gdGhpcyBQeUxv Z28gcXVlcnksIEkKPiB0aG91Z2h0IEknZCBDQyB0aGF0IGxpc3QpCj4KPiBOaWNvbGFzIFBldHRp YXV4IHdyb3RlOgo+ID4gRGVhciBJYW4sCj4gPgo+ID4gSSBoYXZlIGp1c3QgZGlzY292ZXJlZCBw eWxvZ28gdGhhdCBpcyB3aGF0IEkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yIGZvciBhCj4gPiBsb25n IHRpbWU6IGEgbG9nbyB0aGF0IEkgY291bGQgdGVhY2ggdG8geW91bmcgc3R1ZGVudHMgdGhhdCBj b3VsZCBlYXNpbHkKPiA+IGFsbG93IHRoZW0gdG8gbW92ZSBvbiB0byBweXRob24gdGhlcmVhZnRl ci4KPiA+Cj4gPiBJIGhhdmUgc29tZSBxdWVzdGlvbnM6Cj4gPgo+ID4gMS8gaG93IGVhc3kgd291 bGQgaXQgYmUgdG8gdHJhbnNsYXRlIHRoZSBjb21tYW5kcyB0byBhbGxvdyBteSB5b3VuZwo+ID4g c3R1ZGVudHMgKHdobyBzcGVhayBGcmVuY2gpIHRvIHVzZSB0aGUgd29yZGluZyBvZiB0aGUgb3Jp Z2luYWwgbG9nbyBpbgoKU2VlIGh0dHA6Ly9ndnIuc2YubmV0IGZvciBhIGVkdWNhdGlvbmFsIHBy b2dyYW1taW5nIGxhbmd1YWdlIHdoaWNoIHN1cHBvcnRzLAphbW9uZyBvdGhlcnMsIEZyZW5jaC4K ClN0YXMKCi0tCkl0IGlzIGRhbmdlcm91cyB0byBiZSByaWdodCB3aGVuIHRoZSBnb3Zlcm5tZW50 IGlzIHdyb25nLgogIFZvbHRhaXJlCiAgRnJlbmNoIGF1dGhvciwgaHVtYW5pc3QsIHJhdGlvbmFs aXN0LCAmIHNhdGlyaXN0ICgxNjk0IC0gMTc3OCkK |
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From: Ian B. <ia...@co...> - 2006-04-04 17:59:16
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(Since Rur-ple came to mind as I was responding to this PyLogo query, I thought I'd CC that list) Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > Dear Ian, > > I have just discovered pylogo that is what I have been looking for for a > long time: a logo that I could teach to young students that could easily > allow them to move on to python thereafter. > > I have some questions: > > 1/ how easy would it be to translate the commands to allow my young > students (who speak French) to use the wording of the original logo in > French, aka logowriter for which there are many examples on the web; eg: > forward = avance = av, right = droite = dr ... There's a file in pylogo/defs/turtle.logodef which creates aliases for the turtle Python module (to make it look like Logo commands). I think the same functionality could be used to add other languages, though I hadn't considered it before. > 2/ how easy would it be to have the same king of simple windows that > logowriter have ? I'm not sure; I'm not really familiar with logowriter. Have you looked at Rur-ple (http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net/)? -- it's also by a French speaker, for introductory programming. One thing that occurs to me now, is that it might be possible to use just the language part of PyLogo for programming Rur-ple. I'm don't have any experience with GUI programming, so the PyLogo GUI isn't particularly nice, and I don't know enough to improve it. But I still think Logo syntax has a lot of advantages for young programmers over Python syntax. Because PyLogo is pretty friendly with Python code, this might not be very hard. Basically PyLogo creates and uses plain Python functions; there's no way to use objects or methods currently, and no way to do keyword arguments, but I don't think most Rur-ple lessons use these features anyway. I don't know if Rur-ple has turtle graphics? I think I saw that somewhere, but maybe only as a to-do. -- Ian Bicking / ia...@co... / http://blog.ianbicking.org |
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-02-28 17:20:12
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On 2/28/06, Igor TAmara <ig...@ta...> wrote: > Hi, > Andre> A new release (0.9.6) of rur-ple has been made. It makes use of "= .po" > Andre> files for translation instead of special ".py" files used previous= ly. > Andre> This should facilitate translation efforts. I adapted the existin= g > Andre> translations but the Spanish one should definitely be revised. (A= t > Andre> least 4 strings need to be translated). > Andre> > > Ok, I'm interested in doing the translation, what would be the process > to verify the changes done are working? I mean, from .po to get the .mo > or whatever file uses the structure you've done? All you need is to edit the .po files; they are not processed any further, unlike in the traditional gettext approach. So, simply grab a tool like poedit, make the changes you want, and rur-ple will run with the new version you have created. It couldn't be any easier :-) If you are curious, you can look at the file translation.py, which has been *completely* rewritten. It reads from a .po file and create a corresponding python directory (which takes the place of the old language file e.g. spanish.py). Note that it has not been thoroughly tested; I wrote it in a couple of hours and haven't used it much! > > Andre> Major changes to the directory structure have been made to be more > Andre> conformant to international standards (in particular, the Spanish > Andre> directories have been renamed from "sp" to "es"). > Andre> > > Nice. > > About svn or cvs, I was thinking, would you like me to add the > repository from your files? that way it would be faster to get the > changes from version to version, and we don't have to download the whole > zip, to get changes an some files. Probably in general; not in the most recent case. I had to make changes in at least a dozen files, removed many files, etc. Updating the svn repository on my computer took *much* longer than uploading the zipped file to sourceforge. I'm not ready yet to depend on an outside repository. > > The hardest thing to do is the initial import, then the process is > just, update and commit and is really easy, even on windows, if you have > a good client and you have configured ssh-pair keys :) . I really don't > have experience on configuring such things on windows, but I've heard > they are easy. I'm willing to believe you ... but I still don't feel totally comfortable using svn. For example, I made some changes in removing some directories that caused svn to refuse to be updated. I lost about an hour figuring out how to make it accept the changes. I want to build some more confidence using it on my own computer first! In addition, my experience with ssh has been extremely limited so far. Give me time!! :-) > > Andre> The lessons are now found in directory "lessons" instead of "html"= . > Andre> > > By the way, would you consider using something like parsewiki[1] in order > to make changes easier? with parsewiki one writes on plain text with > some easy syntax, then it can produce docbook, latex, html, and of > course, you can use your own css, structure of borders and concentrate > only on the contents, the metainformation, and the look and feel > separately. > 15 years ago I wrote my Ph.D. thesis using LaTeX (I had used TeX for a few years before that). I really loved the way I could concentrate on the content separately from the format. I find that I can do some (most?) of this with a html/css combination. I have some plans for including "fancy" formatting (sidenotes, etc) in the lessons (eventually converting them to a pdf book). After looking at parsewiki, I don't think I could achieve the same goal without going through a lot of pain. I'm fairly comfortable with html syntax as it is. Furthermore, html, with all its warts, is a standard that more people are familiar with. > 1.http://paginas.fe.up.pt/~villate/parsewiki/ > > Andre> As usual, comments are welcome :-) > > Keep on going :) I will! Even though this is just a hobby for me (and that the original goal of teaching my own kids about programming seems to have not been met to my satisfaction at this point :-( Andr=E9 |
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From: Igor T. <ig...@ta...> - 2006-02-28 16:01:50
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Hi,=20 Andre> A new release (0.9.6) of rur-ple has been made. It makes use of ".p= o" Andre> files for translation instead of special ".py" files used previously= =2E=20 Andre> This should facilitate translation efforts. I adapted the existing Andre> translations but the Spanish one should definitely be revised. (At Andre> least 4 strings need to be translated). Andre>=20 Ok, I'm interested in doing the translation, what would be the process to verify the changes done are working? I mean, from .po to get the .mo or whatever file uses the structure you've done? Andre> Major changes to the directory structure have been made to be more Andre> conformant to international standards (in particular, the Spanish Andre> directories have been renamed from "sp" to "es"). Andre>=20 Nice. About svn or cvs, I was thinking, would you like me to add the repository from your files? that way it would be faster to get the changes from version to version, and we don't have to download the whole zip, to get changes an some files. The hardest thing to do is the initial import, then the process is just, update and commit and is really easy, even on windows, if you have a good client and you have configured ssh-pair keys :) . I really don't have experience on configuring such things on windows, but I've heard they are easy. Andre> The lessons are now found in directory "lessons" instead of "html". Andre>=20 By the way, would you consider using something like parsewiki[1] in order to make changes easier? with parsewiki one writes on plain text with some easy syntax, then it can produce docbook, latex, html, and of course, you can use your own css, structure of borders and concentrate only on the contents, the metainformation, and the look and feel separately. 1.http://paginas.fe.up.pt/~villate/parsewiki/ Andre> As usual, comments are welcome :-) Keep on going :) Andre>=20 Andre> Andr=E9 Andre>=20 Andre>=20 --=20 Recomiendo Debian, la mejor distribuci=F3n Linux http://www.debian.org |
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-02-28 11:05:49
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On 2/28/06, Stas Z <sta...@gm...> wrote: > On 2/28/06, Andre Roberge <and...@gm...> wrote: > > A new release (0.9.6) of rur-ple has been made. It makes use of ".po" > > files for translation instead of special ".py" files used previously. > Hmm, I will take a look at your po file parser, perhaps it could serve as= a > gettext replacement :-) > As you perhaps noticed in my posts to the gvr list, there are some horrib= le > text display issues in wxPython. > Yes, I did notice there were some problems. I can't vouch that my approach will not have its own problems... It's something I put together rather quickly. If it can be useful to GvR, by all means, use it :-) > > Major changes to the directory structure have been made to be more > > conformant to international standards (in particular, the Spanish > > directories have been renamed from "sp" to "es"). > See the link below for a list of country names (iso), usefull when you ge= t more > translations. > http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma/02iso-3166-code-lists/= list-en1.html > Thanks for the list! Andr=E9 > Stas > > -- > It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. > Voltaire > French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) > |
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From: Stas Z <sta...@gm...> - 2006-02-28 07:49:48
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-02-28 02:02:58
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A new release (0.9.6) of rur-ple has been made. It makes use of ".po" files for translation instead of special ".py" files used previously.=20 This should facilitate translation efforts. I adapted the existing translations but the Spanish one should definitely be revised. (At least 4 strings need to be translated). Major changes to the directory structure have been made to be more conformant to international standards (in particular, the Spanish directories have been renamed from "sp" to "es"). The lessons are now found in directory "lessons" instead of "html". As usual, comments are welcome :-) Andr=E9 |
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From: Stas Z <sta...@gm...> - 2006-02-27 13:25:02
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-02-27 13:21:20
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On 2/27/06, Stas Z <sta...@gm...> wrote: > Stas: I guess you were left speechless ;-) Note that this is the second empty message I received from you today (the other was on the gvr-devel list). Andr=E9 |
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From: Stas Z <sta...@gm...> - 2006-02-27 13:16:46
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T24gMi8yNy8wNiwgQW5kcmUgUm9iZXJnZSA8YW5kcmUucm9iZXJnZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3Rl Ogo+Cj4KPiBUbyB1c2UgIi5wbyIgZmlsZSwgSSBuZWVkIHRvIGdvIG9uZSBzdGVwIGZ1cnRoZXIg dGhhbiBpbmRpY2F0ZWQgb24gbXkKPiBwb3N0IGkuZS4gSSBuZWVkIHRvIHdyaXRlIGEgdXRpbGl0 eSB0aGF0IHRha2VzIGEgLnBvIGZpbGUgYW5kIGNyZWF0ZXMKPiBhIFB5dGhvbiBkaWN0LgpXZWxs IGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIHlvdSBmaW5kIHRoZSBzd2l0Y2hpbmcgb2YgbGFuZ3VhZ2VzIGltcG9ydGFu dCBpdCBzZWVtcwp0aGUgbG9naWNhbCB0aGluZyB0byBkbyA6LSkKClN0YXMKCi0tCkl0IGlzIGRh bmdlcm91cyB0byBiZSByaWdodCB3aGVuIHRoZSBnb3Zlcm5tZW50IGlzIHdyb25nLgogIFZvbHRh aXJlCiAgRnJlbmNoIGF1dGhvciwgaHVtYW5pc3QsIHJhdGlvbmFsaXN0LCAmIHNhdGlyaXN0ICgx Njk0IC0gMTc3OCkK |
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-02-27 12:35:36
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On 2/27/06, Stas Z <sta...@gm...> wrote: > On 2/27/06, Andre Roberge <and...@gm...> wrote: > > > > On my "programming" to do list: > > 1. change the way string translations are handled, to use ".po" files > Just out of curiosity, why change to po files? Because you convinced me a while ago ;-) [see below] > (you mean of course, 'using gettext') No... > For more then a year you try to convince me and the gvr project that the > whole world is mistaken to use gettext and now you want to use it too?! No... While I tease you about it and what I consider its "flaws", I know that you and the rest world are right to use gettext ... but I still don't want to use it with rur-ple for two reasons: 1. I want to be able to switch language without having to restart the app (on Windows!). --- as you know, this is not possible for GvR. You, and the other GvR developpers made some jokes about how Windows users were used to having to restart apps... but I am not happy with this choice. 2. I want the user to have complete access to all languages regardless of how the locales on his/her computer are set up. --- This is why I started writing my own app in the first place; I tried GvR, found out (erroneously, due to my computer set up) that it did not work with a French interface, and proceded from there. Note that this is not peculiar to gvr: I installed OpenOffice on my computer and had to look things up on the Internet to figure out how to install a French dictionary - it was not as straightforward as it should in my opinion. So, while I do not want to use gettext... I know that there are a lot of utilities (e.g. poedit) to help with translations; the way I implemented translation is not compatible with these tools. Many, many months ago, you pointed out to me that potential translators (non-programmers) might not want to contribute if I didn't use the standard approach. I made a mental note of that and decided I was (one day) going to "bite the bullet." In fact, I even wrote a post on my blog in July 2005 that alluded to it! http://aroberge.blogspot.com/2005/07/poor-mans-i18n.html To use ".po" file, I need to go one step further than indicated on my post i.e. I need to write a utility that takes a .po file and creates a Python dict. Andr=E9 > > Stas > > -- > It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. > Voltaire > French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) > |
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From: Stas Z <sta...@gm...> - 2006-02-27 11:55:02
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T24gMi8yNy8wNiwgQW5kcmUgUm9iZXJnZSA8YW5kcmUucm9iZXJnZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3Rl Ogo+Cj4gT24gbXkgInByb2dyYW1taW5nIiB0byBkbyBsaXN0Ogo+IDEuIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgd2F5 IHN0cmluZyB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbnMgYXJlIGhhbmRsZWQsIHRvIHVzZSAiLnBvIiBmaWxlcwpKdXN0 IG91dCBvZiBjdXJpb3NpdHksIHdoeSBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gcG8gZmlsZXM/Cih5b3UgbWVhbiBvZiBj b3Vyc2UsICd1c2luZyBnZXR0ZXh0JykKRm9yIG1vcmUgdGhlbiBhIHllYXIgeW91IHRyeSB0byBj b252aW5jZSBtZSBhbmQgdGhlIGd2ciBwcm9qZWN0IHRoYXQgdGhlCndob2xlIHdvcmxkIGlzIG1p c3Rha2VuIHRvIHVzZSBnZXR0ZXh0IGFuZCBub3cgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8gdXNlIGl0IHRvbz8hCgpT dGFzCgotLQpJdCBpcyBkYW5nZXJvdXMgdG8gYmUgcmlnaHQgd2hlbiB0aGUgZ292ZXJubWVudCBp cyB3cm9uZy4KICBWb2x0YWlyZQogIEZyZW5jaCBhdXRob3IsIGh1bWFuaXN0LCByYXRpb25hbGlz dCwgJiBzYXRpcmlzdCAoMTY5NCAtIDE3NzgpCg== |
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From: Andre R. <and...@gm...> - 2006-02-27 11:26:29
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On 2/26/06, Igor TAmara <ig...@ta...> wrote: [snip] > P.D: We have really good news about SF, they will give svn access :) > > Just in case you consider, I'm ikks on sourceforge, I would like to > change some string translations to spanish.... > Thanks. I had received a message from sourceforge about the svn access. I have started using svn on my computer, but am not really comfortable with it yet. (Also, I haven't been able to do much programming lately due to other commitments; I hope to get back to it in a few weeks.) As soon as I feel ready, I will put a copy of rur-ple in a svn repository on sourceforge. In the meantime, feel free to send me any contribution to the code, including string translations, as you wish. On my "programming" to do list: 1. change the way string translations are handled, to use ".po" files 2. change the dialog that is run when a user-program is successful so that it goes away by itself. 3. do not require the user to save his/her program before running it. 4. improve the python editor (4th tab) to include the best features of my "lightning compiler" project (also available from the rur-ple project page) And, of course, finish writing the lessons! Andr=E9 > Have a good time :) > > -- > Recomiendo Wims para ayudarse de herramientas matem=E1ticas en l=EDnea > http://wims.unice.fr > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFEAUy5tV4JcpE0AlYRAsrDAKCOyhiX5duLtJ364GUowZ8z9cqJ8QCfUn/m > ccwwuaOMbXGVDemKbXLhbOA=3D > =3D3thZ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > |
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From: Igor T. <ig...@ta...> - 2006-02-26 06:37:55
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Hi :) Andre> On 2/21/06, Igor TAmara <ig...@ta...> wrote: Andre> [...] Andre> What I would like to do prior to version 1.0 is to have rur-ple Andre> changed so that I can use all the standard ".po" files (extracted Andre> strings from the source files) so that anyone could use the "standard Andre> tools" to translate the files. However, I do not want to "compile" Andre> the language files and be "stuck" into having only one language usab= le Andre> in a given run of the program. Andre>=20 Nice workaround, so windows users will have the opportunity of enjoy everything they want. Andre> While we are talking about language issues, I have been thinking of Andre> providing an option (within any user program) that would allow a user Andre> to "enable" a different language of communication with Reebord.=20 Andre> Something like Andre> =3D=3D=3D Andre> francais() # "calls built-in translation" for French. Andre> avance() # equivalent to move() Andre> move() # still allowed Andre> =3D=3D=3D Andre>=20 Andre> The reason I have not done that so far, is that I thought that asking Andre> the user to define their own translations early one, like Andre> =3D=3D=3D=3D Andre> avance =3D move # define a synonym Andre> avance() # use it Andre> =3D=3D=3D Andre> provided a good introduction to the idea of variables. Now, when it Andre> is used in a classroom environment, it might be perhaps better to ha= ve Andre> local translations provided to the students, by invoking a command.= =20 Andre> Of course, the Python keyword would *not* be translated (unlike the Andre> situation in Guido van Robot). Andre>=20 Nice to let people do things like that, for example on turtle, we have translated easily the turtle's commands with the very same idea :) Andre> Feel free to comment on these ideas. Andre>=20 Andre> Andr=E9 Andre>=20 P.D: We have really good news about SF, they will give svn access :) Just in case you consider, I'm ikks on sourceforge, I would like to change some string translations to spanish.... Have a good time :) --=20 Recomiendo Wims para ayudarse de herramientas matem=E1ticas en l=EDnea http://wims.unice.fr |
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