Re: [Reduce-algebra-developers] Reduce as a library + assorted questions/comments

[Kurt P. <ni...@gm...>]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that PROC_make_cons is not part of the official
REDUCE distribution, it's an addon for Pure
(pure-lang/pure.reduce/proc-add.c.
This only said to avoid any confusion (not to speak of bothering the
developers).


On 10 April 2014 20:03, Kurt Pagani <ni...@gm...> wrote:

>
> > Can you explain what PROC_make_cons does?
>
> As the name indicates "PROC_make_cons" creates a Lisp "cons" from a
> qcar/qcdr pair in the PROC stack. To really understand what's going on one
> should consult
> http://sourceforge.net/p/reduce-algebra/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/csl/cslbase/csl.c,
> especially the part at the end of the file.
>
>
>
>
> On 9 April 2014 18:25, Valery Yundin <yu....@gm...> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can you explain what PROC_make_cons does?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Valery
>>
>>
>> On 7 April 2014 15:38, Kurt Pagani <ni...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Valery
>>>
>>> There are some minor sticking points in the interface, however, Albert
>>> Gräf wrote a patch which you can find in (
>>> https://bitbucket.org/purelang/pure-lang/downloads/pure-reduce-0.4.tar.gz).
>>> He also wrote a remarkable TeXmacs plugin (
>>> https://bitbucket.org/purelang/pure-lang/wiki/pure-texmacs.en.pdf)
>>> which heavily relies on PROC_lisp_eval. Morevover, the Lisp eval function
>>> is indispensable if you want to use some/many of the packages. How all
>>> works is best seen in the  "reduce.pure" file (contained in the tgz
>>> mentioned above). To be short,  the PROC_ interface provides full
>>> functionality when using some Lisp by lisp_eval/execute_lisp_function.
>>>
>>> The Python script is merely a hack to check if it works, so forget about
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Kurt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 April 2014 10:16, Valery Yundin <yu....@gm...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Kurt,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the links. I've seen already pure interface, but not your
>>>> python interface (could've saved myself half an hour if I knew about it).
>>>> BTW it seems that conversion to "fixnum"/smallint is not completely
>>>> bulletproof in your Expr class (they are supposed to be maximum 28-bit
>>>> long).
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how does "PROC_" interface relate to interactive modes of
>>>> Reduce: algebraic and symbolic. Does it implement full functionality of
>>>> both? of one? a subset of one?
>>>>
>>>> Did you manage to get anything useful from PROC_lisp_eval or
>>>> execute_lisp_function?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Valery
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 April 2014 22:15, Kurt Pagani <ni...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Valery
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not as bad as you might think. There are lots of REDUCE users who
>>>>> are using it in embedded applications. There is a phantastic procedural
>>>>> interface which allows one to use REDUCE as a library. See e.g. Pure (
>>>>> http://puredocs.bitbucket.org/pure-reduce.html) or Python (
>>>>> https://bitbucket.org/kfp/pyreduce). There are also several
>>>>> sophisticated TeXmacs plugins for REDUCE available (e.g.
>>>>> http://arxiv.org/html/1204.3020v1).
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings
>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6 April 2014 01:54, Valery Yundin <yu....@gm...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First of all, I'm new to Reduce so some questions may be naive and
>>>>>> have been already discussed somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that Reduce gets much less attention than it deserves. There
>>>>>> might be many reasons for this, like people being scared away by lisp, but
>>>>>> one of them IMO is a bit messy build system and there is no library to use
>>>>>> in other projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've noticed that there is a way to compile something like a library
>>>>>> in csl/new-embedded sub-directory. I had to make a few changes to make it
>>>>>> compile, and got a few questions in the process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've managed to approximately identify what -DEMBEDDED=1 does, please
>>>>>> correct me if I'm wrong
>>>>>> 1. Sets hard-coded stack limit to 2MB
>>>>>> 2. Tweaks something in terminal input/output
>>>>>> 3. Disables something related to dynamically loadable code
>>>>>> Could anyone give more details?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I started writing autoconf/automake build scripts to compile a
>>>>>> library similar to new-embedded but with more flexibility. For that purpose
>>>>>> it would be useful to split EMBEDDED functionality into logical subsets.
>>>>>> For instance hard-coding stack limit might be useful sometimes, but it is
>>>>>> completely unrelated to other things which EMBEDDED does (and which I don't
>>>>>> understand fully).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also I noticed that profiling doesn't see to work with EMBEDDED=1,
>>>>>> I'm not sure why yet (might be related to point 3?). It would be useful to
>>>>>> be able to compile optimized version of library, at the moment my scripts
>>>>>> can do it only with EMBEDDED not set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm curious how much user interface is fused with the backend in
>>>>>> Reduce. In particular what kind of inevitable limitations will a library
>>>>>> with everything except the UI have? Is it possible to more cleanly separate
>>>>>> interface from the core and make it easier to create alternative UI? It
>>>>>> seems that now it is all glued with #ifdefs scattered around and for
>>>>>> instance --without-gui option seems to be slightly broken (perhaps because
>>>>>> developers don't use it often).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another thing is tests, some of them are not producing reference
>>>>>> output. Is it a known problem/not a problem or have I done something wrong?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you think a mirror of the official SVN repository on github.com(git interoperate with svn seamlessly) would be useful? Also maybe a
>>>>>> separate repository with a cut-down minimal version which contains only CSL
>>>>>> and packages (without things like
>>>>>> packages/rubi_red/rubi4/IntegrationTestResults/MathematicaTestResults/MathematicaNotebookFiles/)
>>>>>> for people to get started easily?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Valery
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>