From: Matthew F. <mt...@fn...> - 2007-02-20 02:55:40
|
I recently tried out the "gaim-text" console interface, which is included in current beta versions of Gaim. With due respect to the developers, I must say I was disappointed. A keyboard-driven ASCII window manager inside a console is a neat idea, but not a practical one. There were several problems: - the behavior of the keyboard controls is clumsy and non-intuitive. After a considerable period playing with the interface, I still couldn't figure out when to press left/right, up/down or enter. - the window resizing controls do not work properly. The text inside the window fails to realign itself properly to the size of the window, and the border of the window changes permanently to an ugly blue pattern of letters when I resize it. - I can't get the ALT controls to work from a remote SSH session (maybe a problem with my X11 software, admittedly). Since the whole point of a console interface is to enable remote control, there should be alternative controls for people with ALT problems - like the ESC-ESC sequence in Emacs. Gaim-text is unusable without the ALT controls. - The conversation window only has one line for text entry. There is no way to enter carriage returns, or to read back quickly through a long IM message that has scrolled off the screen. I'm sure a lot of work has gone into the interface, and I don't want to offend anyone - but can I suggest that the developers look at CenterICQ as a good model for a console-based IM client? Unfortunately CenterICQ is not reliable for AIM usage, because connections keep dropping (a problem with the TOC2 servers, I think). So I have a choice between an unreliable TOC2-based client with an excellent console interface, or a reliable Oscar-based client with a (frankly) very clumsy console interface. I would really like to see someone put these features together and create a CenterICQ-like interface for Gaim. Unfortunately the development of CenterICQ seems to have stopped in the past year, so the Gaim developers are perhaps the people best placed to implement this! Why would anyone want a console-based Gaim anyway, you might ask, when a graphical one is so much prettier? I would like to be able to run an AIM client inside a "screen" session, and re-attach myself to it remotely, so I can see all the messages I've received while away - and continue a conversation I started previously in a different physical location. regards, Matthew. |
From: Luke S. <lsc...@us...> - 2007-02-20 03:04:35
|
What terminal are you using to ssh from? What is your locale? I use gaim-text remotely nearly every day, inside screen just as you describe as the ideal. I have none of the problems you describe. luke |
From: Rehan S. <reh...@gm...> - 2007-02-20 13:06:45
|
Hi Luke, I am too trying to execute the gaim-text console interface but i am not able to find the exact binary file. Did you mean gntgaim in console directory as gaim-text?? I installed the gaim with and without the gtk version but still was not able to connect. I am also not able to compile gntgaim.c file it gives lots of error. If possible can you please forward me the entire directory that you are having. Basically i want to connect to gaim which will be running on server via a ssh client. i am trying to understand how gaim works so i can implement in my MSN gateway. waiting for your reply, thanks in advance, Rehan. On 2/20/07, Luke Schierer <lsc...@us...> wrote: > > What terminal are you using to ssh from? What is your locale? > > I use gaim-text remotely nearly every day, inside screen just as you > describe as the ideal. I have none of the problems you describe. > > luke > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share > your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Gaim-devel mailing list > Gai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gaim-devel > |
From: Luke S. <lsc...@us...> - 2007-02-20 13:23:56
|
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 02:06:40PM +0100, Rehan Shaikh wrote: > Hi Luke, > > I am too trying to execute the gaim-text console interface but i am not > able to find the exact binary file. Did you mean gntgaim in console > directory as gaim-text?? > > I installed the gaim with and without the gtk version but still was not able > to connect. I am also not able to compile gntgaim.c file it gives lots of > error. If possible can you please forward me the entire directory that you > are having. Basically i want to connect to gaim which will be running on > server via a ssh client. > > i am trying to understand how gaim works so i can implement in my MSN > gateway. > > waiting for your reply, > > thanks in advance, > Rehan. to compile gaim text, you would still need to run ./configure from the directory above console/ While gtk is (naturally) not needed, libglib is. While the source file is gntgaim.c, the executable is gaim-text. Thus your email leads me to suspect that you did not successfully compile it. luke |
From: Matthew F. <mt...@fn...> - 2007-02-20 03:37:53
|
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Luke Schierer wrote: > What terminal are you using to ssh from? What is your locale? en_GB. > I use gaim-text remotely nearly every day, inside screen just as you > describe as the ideal. I have none of the problems you describe. On the local Linux PC, I've tried Konsole, xterm (running in KDE), and the plain console (outside X11). Results were Konsole: Alt-keys worked; but other problems as described. xterm: Alt-keys did not work, so couldn't do anything. Plain console: Alt-keys worked; but other problems as described. Running ssh from my Apple Powerbook laptop, I tried the following (both in the standard Apple X11 application) Konsole: Alt-keys did not work, so couldn't do anything. xterm: Alt-keys did not work, so couldn't do anything. I also found that gaim-text says "segmentation fault" when I quit it (using ALT-q) - though this isn't really a problem for me. GDB reports: 0x00759d3e in update_row_text (tree=0x8d815a0, row=0x8d6e430) at gnttree.c:230 230 int len = gnt_util_onscreen_width(col->text, NULL); (though admittedly GDB might introduce extra problems by scrolling the console with its messages). Matthew. |
From: William R. <bi...@ag...> - 2007-02-20 03:55:51
|
On Feb 19, 2007, at 9:37 PM, Matthew Ford wrote: (Other parts snipped) > Running ssh from my Apple Powerbook laptop, I tried the following > (both in > the standard Apple X11 application) > > Konsole: Alt-keys did not work, so couldn't do anything. > xterm: Alt-keys did not work, so couldn't do anything. Matthew, Terminal.app on Mac OS X has a checkbox under Terminal->Window Settings->Keyboard called "use option as meta key" that might be helpful with that problem. Regards, William Reading |
From: Luke S. <lsc...@us...> - 2007-02-20 13:06:11
|
On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 09:37:39PM -0600, Matthew Ford wrote: > On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Luke Schierer wrote: > > > What terminal are you using to ssh from? What is your locale? > > en_GB. This is the cuase of at least some of your problems. Switch to en_GB.UTF-8 on both the local system and the remote system. gaim-text does not handle using other encodings well, and you'll have some additional problems if your encodings aren't the same. Apple does have unicode locales, but I have had best results after switching my input method to the American flag with the black U under it, for the unicode input (I have only tried en_US myself). I've not used apple's native console application, but urxvt from darwinports experiences no problems for using the apple key (or the escape key) as meta, or for the arrow keys. luke |
From: Adrian K. <ak...@gm...> - 2007-02-20 03:40:03
|
On Monday 19 February 2007 20:55, Matthew Ford wrote: > I recently tried out the "gaim-text" console interface, which is included > in current beta versions of Gaim. I have been primarily using gaim-text for a few weeks now (rather than the GTK version) for the ability to reattach anywhere. It also seems stabler than GTK Gaim for me. > > With due respect to the developers, I must say I was disappointed. A > keyboard-driven ASCII window manager inside a console is a neat idea, but > not a practical one. There were several problems: > > - the behavior of the keyboard controls is clumsy and non-intuitive. > After a considerable period playing with the interface, I still > couldn't figure out when to press left/right, up/down or enter. I have had similar issues, especially when nothing seemed to work when resizing or to exit a menu. > - the window resizing controls do not work properly. The text inside the > window fails to realign itself properly to the size of the window, and > the border of the window changes permanently to an ugly blue pattern > of letters when I resize it. I see the same issue from time to time, except I just get blue blocks. > - I can't get the ALT controls to work from a remote SSH session (maybe > a problem with my X11 software, admittedly). Since the whole point of > a console interface is to enable remote control, there should be > alternative controls for people with ALT problems - like the ESC-ESC > sequence in Emacs. Gaim-text is unusable without the ALT controls. I have not encountered this, but I do have a device running Linux and gaim-text (either natively or over SSH) that has no ALT keys! I tried to rebind them to Ctrl+(capital letter) but it did not work well. I agree that an alternate beginning sequence would be helpful. I also have noticed that it is impossible to add buddies or edit their information from gaim-text. All in all, I and others love gaim-text. If there's a way that I can help (without programming -- I don't yet know C), let me know. -- Adrian Kreher |
From: Adil <ad...@ya...> - 2007-02-20 20:24:55
|
> > > > - the behavior of the keyboard controls is clumsy and non-intuitive. > > After a considerable period playing with the interface, I still > > couldn't figure out when to press left/right, up/down or enter. > > I have had similar issues, especially when nothing seemed to work when > resizing or to exit a menu. > Admittedly the keyboard controls are mostly unintuitive. However, it is possible to remap most of the bindings to meet ones likings. It should be quite possible to use all the features without using the alt key. When you press escape inside screen, it doesn't immediately send it to the application. This is why even if you don't have an alt-key, you can press "<esc><alphanum>" in somewhat quick succession to get the effect of pressing alt+<alphanum>. For this very reason, pressing escape doesn't immediately close a menu. If you try closing the menu outside screen, it should work with the first <esc> keypress. > > a problem with my X11 software, admittedly). Since the whole point > of > > a console interface is to enable remote control, there should be > > alternative controls for people with ALT problems - like the > ESC-ESC > > sequence in Emacs. Gaim-text is unusable without the ALT controls. > > I have not encountered this, but I do have a device running Linux and > gaim-text (either natively or over SSH) that has no ALT keys! I tried to > rebind them to Ctrl+(capital letter) but it did not work well. I agree > that an alternate beginning sequence would be helpful. Quite possibly. I would accept a clean patch that would allow doing that. In the meantime, the following bindings work for me: [GntWM::binding] # bind control-n to window-next c-N=window-next # bind control-p to window-prev c-P=window-prev > > I also have noticed that it is impossible to add buddies or edit their > information from gaim-text. > You can add buddies or edit their information from gaim-text. In the buddylist, select a group and press F11 (yes, possible to rebind that). That should show a context-menu with an 'Add buddy' item. There are context-menus for buddies, chats etc. too in the buddylist. It'd be quite awesome if someone updated the manual, or wrote a brief FAQ for gaim-text. > All in all, I and others love gaim-text. If there's a way that I can > help > (without programming -- I don't yet know C), let me know. > *hint* ;) Sadrul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com |
From: Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...> - 2007-02-20 21:14:47
|
Adil spake unto us the following wisdom: > When you press escape inside screen, it doesn't immediately send it to the > application. This is why even if you don't have an alt-key, you can press > "<esc><alphanum>" in somewhat quick succession to get the effect of > pressing alt+<alphanum>. For this very reason, pressing escape doesn't > immediately close a menu. If you try closing the menu outside screen, it > should work with the first <esc> keypress. This is not my experience at all; is that an option? > > I have not encountered this, but I do have a device running Linux and= =20 > > gaim-text (either natively or over SSH) that has no ALT keys! I tried to > > rebind them to Ctrl+(capital letter) but it did not work well. I agree > > that an alternate beginning sequence would be helpful. >=20 > Quite possibly. I would accept a clean patch that would allow doing that. > In the meantime, the following bindings work for me: Control+capital letter is not possible over a standard Unix terminal. Ethan --=20 The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764 |
From: Adil <ad...@ya...> - 2007-02-22 04:40:52
|
--- Ethan Blanton <ebl...@cs...> wrote: > Adil spake unto us the following wisdom: > > When you press escape inside screen, it doesn't immediately send it to > the > > application. This is why even if you don't have an alt-key, you can > press > > "<esc><alphanum>" in somewhat quick succession to get the effect of > > pressing alt+<alphanum>. For this very reason, pressing escape doesn't > > immediately close a menu. If you try closing the menu outside screen, > it > > should work with the first <esc> keypress. > > This is not my experience at all; is that an option? Not that I am aware of. This happens by default for me. (eg. console/libgnt/test/key waits a while before it prints 27 for the first escape). Sadrul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com |
From: Luke S. <lsc...@us...> - 2007-02-22 12:12:29
|
On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 11:40:44PM -0500, Adil wrote: > > --- Ethan Blanton <ebl...@cs...> wrote: > > > Adil spake unto us the following wisdom: > > > When you press escape inside screen, it doesn't immediately send it to > > the > > > application. This is why even if you don't have an alt-key, you can > > press > > > "<esc><alphanum>" in somewhat quick succession to get the effect of > > > pressing alt+<alphanum>. For this very reason, pressing escape doesn't > > > immediately close a menu. If you try closing the menu outside screen, > > it > > > should work with the first <esc> keypress. > > > > This is not my experience at all; is that an option? I've used escape for meta that way in mutt also. luke |
From: Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...> - 2007-02-22 13:50:15
|
Luke Schierer spake unto us the following wisdom: > I've used escape for meta that way in mutt also. Yes, many applications accept Esc-character as M-character, this dates back quite some time; the behavior I have not seen is screen holding on to ESC and then generating an 8-bit meta sequence. Most terminals, in fact, artificially generate an Esc-character sequence, rather than using an 8-bit meta, to my understanding. Ethan --=20 The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764 |
From: Matthew F. <mt...@fn...> - 2007-02-20 04:33:35
|
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, William Reading wrote: > Terminal.app on Mac OS X has a checkbox under Terminal->Window > Settings->Keyboard called "use option as meta key" that might be helpful with > that problem. Yes, I can get the ALT key to work in Terminal.app, as you describe. But running gaim-text in Terminal.app, the arrow keys don't work! The arrow keys work correctly in the shell (even over SSH), but they are ignored in gaim-text. Matthew. |
From: Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...> - 2007-02-20 05:17:13
|
Matthew Ford spake unto us the following wisdom: > - the behavior of the keyboard controls is clumsy and non-intuitive.=20 > After a considerable period playing with the interface, I still=20 > couldn't figure out when to press left/right, up/down or enter. I agree that some commands are not intuitive, but I can't say I ever had a problem with these particular bindings. That said, I had j/k and ^p/^n bound for a reason. ;-) > - the window resizing controls do not work properly. The text inside th= e=20 > window fails to realign itself properly to the size of the window, an= d=20 > the border of the window changes permanently to an ugly blue pattern= =20 > of letters when I resize it. >=20 > - I can't get the ALT controls to work from a remote SSH session (maybe= =20 > a problem with my X11 software, admittedly). Since the whole point of= =20 > a console interface is to enable remote control, there should be=20 > alternative controls for people with ALT problems - like the ESC-ESC= =20 > sequence in Emacs. Gaim-text is unusable without the ALT controls. This is almost certainly a terminfo problem. Many, if not most, systems are plagued with incorrect or incomplete terminfo for the terminals they ship. In fact, some distributions (and terminal apps!) intentionally break their terminfo databases in the name of "compatability" with broken terminals. I suggest installing rxvt-unicode, putting the rxvt-unicode terminfo on all involved machines (including those you ssh *to*, which may not be running urxvt themselves), and trying again. If the problem disappears, it is a terminfo problem. > Why would anyone want a console-based Gaim anyway, you might ask, when a= =20 > graphical one is so much prettier? I would like to be able to run an AIM= =20 > client inside a "screen" session, and re-attach myself to it remotely, so= =20 > I can see all the messages I've received while away - and continue a=20 > conversation I started previously in a different physical location. I think most people using gaim-text are running it inside screen, for these very reasons. I know I am. I'm personally more concerned with the inability to do any number of things at normal typing speeds over a connection with any latency or loss, due to the keystroke parsing. The absolute values of keybindings can be adjusted later. ;-) Regarding your problems with arrow keys in Terminal.crapp; I think this was fixed at some point, *provided* that the Terminal.app terminfo is correct (it almost assuredly is not, given the other horrendous shortcomings of that piece of software). Ethan --=20 The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764 |
From: David B. <Dav...@he...> - 2007-02-20 10:20:23
|
Just a note: There are a bunch of IRC and similar clients, that work very well in console for ages ;-) They could be looked at for hints... =20 Regards, David =20 ________________________________ From: gai...@li... on behalf of Matthew Ford Sent: Tue 20-Feb-07 03:55 To: gai...@li... Subject: [Gaim-devel] gaim-text interface I recently tried out the "gaim-text" console interface, which is = included in current beta versions of Gaim. With due respect to the developers, I must say I was disappointed. A keyboard-driven ASCII window manager inside a console is a neat idea, = but not a practical one. There were several problems: - the behavior of the keyboard controls is clumsy and non-intuitive. After a considerable period playing with the interface, I still couldn't figure out when to press left/right, up/down or enter. - the window resizing controls do not work properly. The text inside = the window fails to realign itself properly to the size of the window, = and the border of the window changes permanently to an ugly blue pattern of letters when I resize it. - I can't get the ALT controls to work from a remote SSH session = (maybe a problem with my X11 software, admittedly). Since the whole point = of a console interface is to enable remote control, there should be alternative controls for people with ALT problems - like the ESC-ESC sequence in Emacs. Gaim-text is unusable without the ALT controls. - The conversation window only has one line for text entry. There is = no way to enter carriage returns, or to read back quickly through a = long IM message that has scrolled off the screen. I'm sure a lot of work has gone into the interface, and I don't want to offend anyone - but can I suggest that the developers look at CenterICQ = as a good model for a console-based IM client? Unfortunately CenterICQ is = not reliable for AIM usage, because connections keep dropping (a problem = with the TOC2 servers, I think). So I have a choice between an unreliable TOC2-based client with an excellent console interface, or a reliable Oscar-based client with a (frankly) very clumsy console interface. I = would really like to see someone put these features together and create a CenterICQ-like interface for Gaim. Unfortunately the development of CenterICQ seems to have stopped in the past year, so the Gaim developers are perhaps the people best placed to implement this! Why would anyone want a console-based Gaim anyway, you might ask, when a graphical one is so much prettier? I would like to be able to run an AIM client inside a "screen" session, and re-attach myself to it remotely, = so I can see all the messages I've received while away - and continue a conversation I started previously in a different physical location. regards, Matthew. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share = your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D= DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Gaim-devel mailing list Gai...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gaim-devel |
From: Will T. <wi...@wi...> - 2007-02-20 10:34:36
|
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 11:16:00AM +0100, David Balazic wrote: > Just a note: There are a bunch of IRC and similar clients, that work > very well in console for ages ;-) > They could be looked at for hints... (Of course, an alternative is to use bitlbee within your favourite IRC client.) Moving swiftly back on-topic, I believe that it's possible to write different window managers for gaim-text (or more generally gnt). It might be fun for someone who hates the current management to create a replacement WM modelled on one of the tabbed WMs for X, or maybe even the aforementioned favourite IRC client. Will |
From: Adil <ad...@ya...> - 2007-02-20 20:38:45
|
--- Matthew Ford <mt...@fn...> wrote: > - The conversation window only has one line for text entry. There is no > way to enter carriage returns, or to read back quickly through a > long IM message that has scrolled off the screen. > A multiline text entry will indeed by quite interesting. A patch will be gladly accepted. > I'm sure a lot of work has gone into the interface, and I don't want to > offend anyone - but can I suggest that the developers look at CenterICQ > as > a good model for a console-based IM client? No offense taken. As has been mentioned, it's possible to write a custom window manager to follow the window-management style of CenterICQ. The window-manager will probably be able to do other operations (eg. change status, get buddy-information etc.) from some keybindings. Sadrul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com |