From: Russ W. K. <ru...@kn...> - 2003-05-29 03:18:56
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While tying the switch's neutral to ground is certainly not up to code (and not a good idea), ground loops are not an issue. A ground loop would occur if you were to tie a real neutral from the breaker box to ground. In any case, tying the switch's neutral to ground will cause a small current to flow through your conduit/BX casing/ground wire all the time (at least for 2-way switches), which is not desirable from a safety standpoint. It's just enough current to power the circuitry, LEDs, etc in the switch. It has nothing to do with the load itself. While I haven't measured it with a meter, I have "felt" it and it wasn't much. :^o If you have GFCI breakers, they will probably trip, however. All of that aside, it does work in a pinch (I've done it). Officially however, I would have to recommend against it. ;) Carl Friedberg said: > Warning, I'm a physicist, not an electrician... > > > Up to code would mean running a neutral; if you have conduit, that's > not a big deal, you could just pull out the old wires, tied to a > fish-tape, then pull a bundle of three color coded wires (feed:maybe > black, load:maybe red, neutral:white) back in. I've done that on > occasion. If you have plastic instead of metal conduit, you'll be > pulling the insulated green ground as well. THNN could be used if you > are tight, and I think 4 #14THNN is legal in a 1/2in. conduit; again, > check the code before you do anything. > > If you have romex or Bx, you are going to have to do a new run... > > Tying neutral to ground and then using the ground as a neutral might > work, but is defintely not to code and could be dangerous. I believe > the only point where neutral and ground are tied is in the main panel > (let's ignore isolated ground circuits -vbg). If I remember my EE > course, tying those together at more than one point is a great way to > generate substantial currents in the ground loops you've made... > > In most homes (not my loft here) you get your 220 VAC in two phases, > where the neutral is the center-tap, and should be grounded in your > main panel. If you screw around with this enough, you could eletrocute > someone. Be careful, call an electrician once and get it done right; > should not be very expensive unless you are here in NYC... > > Carl > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Sharpee > [mailto:jason-dated-1054592222.f35a0a%sha...@fw...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 6:17 PM > To: 'mis...@li...' > Subject: RE: [misterhouse-users] X10 Wiring > > > > I have a setup just like this, and I was still able to wire it, > however, in the end the companion switch can only turn off the lights, > cannot turn them on (signal must be traveling through the load). The > master switch toggles on / off just fine. (works in my scenario as > most members of my family arent aware of where the other switch is). > > Basically I had the cheap button X10 switches and decided to just keep > switching wires till I got something working :) Afterwards I checked > to see if the circuits were overheating at all a few times for the > next couple of days after install (just to be sure). Havent had a > problem with that for over 2 years, with the exception of the slave > not turning the light on. > > On another note: I have seen some installers tying the neutral to > ground (sometimes to the conduit) Not sure how "up-to-code" that is. > ;) > > -J > > > > On Wed, 28 May 2003, MOORE,FLOYD E (HP-Corvallis,ex1) wrote: > >> OK, >> >> After a bit of reading (of your follow-ups and some online >> information) have a look over at hometoys at: >> >> http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/dec97/articles/kingery/kingery6.htm >> >> This is part of a larger X10 series. It does an adequate job of >> describing the many 3-way configurations. From what I can understand >> you have the load at the beginning of the circuit: >> Breaker -> Load(lights) -> 3-Way Switch -> 3-Way Switch. >> This is described in section 3 of the document mentioned above. It >> does have a solution for this connection, but probably not with your >> type of switches. The problem (as has already been mentioned) is the >> loack of a true neutral wire. >> >> Have a look at this article and see if it helps. >> >> Floyd Moore >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: mis...@li... >> > [mailto:mis...@li...] On Behalf Of >> > Russ W. Knize >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:30 PM >> > To: mis...@li... >> > Subject: Re: [misterhouse-users] X10 Wiring >> > >> > >> > I'm a bit unclear on a few things: >> > >> > Is the white wire leaving box A connected to the white/neutral >> > entering Box A, or was it attached to the old 3-way switch? How were >> > the black/red wires attached to the old 3-way switch? >> > >> > Edward Brookhouse said: >> > > This is a bit off topic for the list but in desperation I thought >> > > I would try (forgive me bruce :) >> > > >> > > After reading various articles >> > > (http://www.act-solutions.com/uncle.htm) >> > > by Phil Kinergy and after speaking to the folks at smarthome, I >> > > still do not have a solution to my issue. >> > > >> > > I was attempting to replace a three way circuit (which had two >> > > switches) with the smarthome 2380 2way dimmer and multi-way >> > > companion switch. >> > > >> > > The wiring I have is: >> > > >> > > Box A: Black/White/Ground coming in Black is hot >> > > Box A: Black/White/Red/Ground leaving to second switch >> > > Box B: Black/White/Red/Ground >> > > >> > > Following the directions for these switches seems as though I have >> > > chosen the wrong equipment. Specifically because notice there is >> > > no load wire clearly marked? >> > > >> > > Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated >> > > >> > > Edward >> > > eb...@se... >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------- >> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: ObjectStore. >> > > If flattening out C++ or Java code to make your application fit in >> > > a relational database is painful, don't do it! Check out >> > > ObjectStore. Now part of Progress Software. >> > > http://www.objectstore.net/sourceforge >> > > ________________________________________________________ >> > > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: >> > > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 >> > >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Russ >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay >> Get office equipment for less on eBay! >> http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5 >> ________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from this list, go to: >> http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay > Get office equipment for less on eBay! > http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5 > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay > Get office equipment for less on eBay! > http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5 > ________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from this list, go to: > http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1365 Thanks, Russ |