Re: [Lmuse-developer] Pan (mono tracks) vs. balance (stereo tracks): Both incorrect in MusE?

[Robert J. <spa...@gm...>]

Hey Tim,

2013/3/13 Tim E. Real <ter...@ro...>:
> On March 13, 2013 09:50:33 AM Robert Jonsson wrote:
<...>
>> About the Pan right vs wrong discussion. I saw the thread on LAD also.
>> It seems this is quite complicated to do "right". I have no big ideas
>> except not changing it too much. I think we need keep it simple enough
>> so users understand how to work the controls.
>
> Yeah, I hear 'ya. Don't get too complicated.
>
> However I could really use these panners because here's an example:
>
> I double-track my rhythm guitars, one take for left and one for right.
>
> Then I feed these two mono wave tracks into one stereo Group track.
> I adjust the pan of one wave track all the way left and the other
>  all the way right so that the stereo Group is operating as two
>  independent channels.
> Then I slap an effect into the rack such as distortion.
> This is the convenient part because two copies of the distortion
>  are used and share the same controls and I don't have to play with
>  two different copies in two different strips.
>
> But here's the problem: At this point the sound exiting the strip
>  is two independent channels all the way to the left and right.
>
> The positions of the extreme left and right wave tracks being fed
>  into the Group cannot be touched because then they would start
>  to bleed into each other in the Group.
>
> So I'm stuck leaving them at full left and full right to avoid bleeding.
>
> So these panners would really help because then I could properly
>  position the two distorted channels as I wish, before they leave the strip,
>  instead of always being forced all the way left and right.
>
> Otherwise I'm forced to work with two independent mono strips,
>  fooling around with two separate copies of the distortion controls.

You know, when there are actual use cases I think there's much more
headroom for adding specific solutions. :)

But I have to say I do not really understand what you are trying to achieve.
Do you want each channel in a stereo-bus to have a pan setting? Sounds
cool but very, very specific?

Maybe it can be a feature of a group track, giving them more mixing
functionality?

>
> I also often double-track my lead guitar, sometimes even triple for
>  three-part harmony.
> You can see how it becomes a real pain to fool around with
>  multiple separate plugin copies on separate mono strips...
>
> An alternative to all of this is to make our strips true multi-channel,
>  that is, be able to pick and choose which of two stereo outputs are
>  fed into the next strip.
> But as you know I decided against that due to complexity, except
>  that I allow it for multi-channel soft synths.
>
> Of course I've always kind of regretted that decision, but in fairness
>  after all MusE is primarily about making music not studio mixing...
>
> But as talking to Fons reminded me, we could never take advantage
>  of such LADSPA plugins as encoders and decoders because we
>  only ever feed two channels max into them.
> Not to mention we have no way of connecting control outputs
>  and inputs, like compressor outs to ins, as I know that you would so
>  dearly like to have :)

Hehe, true :)

> Well I've had some plans for that for a while. Start with a new Route type:
>  "Control Route"...

Neat!

> If I attempt this panner stuff I'll try to keep things as easy as possible for
>  what MusE is all about...
> I think users could dig it once they see what it could do.
>
> Aw c'mon, admit it, don't you think replacing the pan knob with something
>  as cool as Ardour's graphical panner would look really neat? He he...

It might ;) Though I might be missing the point.. I'll look at the
ardour mixer later.

Regards,
Robert