Re: [Lmuse-user] [Some music by me!] + Control freak connections between internal MIDI controller and wave audio control

[Tim E. R. <ter...@ro...>]

On January 17, 2013 01:30:43 PM par...@so... wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I've watched MusE automation grow up to be really nice.  I use an external
> KORG Nanokontrol to control the mixer and effects.  I can also easily send
> out MIDI control messages to my outboard equipment.  After reading a thread
> in the developers mailing list from Tim I got the impression that I could
> somehow route MIDI control directly to an audio control.
> 
> This seemed really great so I tried it but without luck.  Basically I picked
> a Virtual MIDI port and routed MIDI to it and setup the audio control to
> read from the same port.  It appears (using -m -M) options that messages
> sent out don't come back in.  This makes sense that normally an app doesn't
> want half duplex behavior on a port.  So then I had the great idea to sent
> to one virtual port and aconnect to another as an input.  Still no control.
> I guess there is a way to internally route MIDI control directly back into
> an wave audio control but I don't know how.  This would be a very powerful
> and creative tool for someone to synchronize the audio and effect on a wave
> track by a MIDI track!
> 
> Is there something I can do internally to enable this short of physically
> wiring my hardware MIDI out back to MIDI in?
> 
> P.S.  The fix to the checkbox visibility (I run fluxbox) and addition of
> ability to clear a single track's automation data is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Bob
> 

Hello.
You've just "hit the nail on the head".
Currently the midi-to-audio-controller assignment feature only
 accepts direct midi input from midi input ports - NOT from 
 the midi graphs in the pianoroll.
I'm working in this area right now.
Here are some parts of a private message while talking to the other devs.
I'm ready to start with option (A) below, but being cautious to let it
 ferment for fear of missing something that would come back to bite me
 half-way into it. There are... issues... compromises...

And uh... some MUSIC by me! 

It's a bit rambling but follow it and you can see I'm trying to tie 
 it all together:

Tim.


[SNIP]
------------------- 
First, some music! Enjoy. Please don't re-distribute it /thanks/
You are of the, uh, /lucky/ few to hear it so far. Ha ha!
Two of seven songs from my first 2003 CD:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53315356/CityConfidential.ogg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53315356/Lookout.ogg

Get it while it lasts.
Drums programmed and all else performed be me.

Made ten years ago with CW8.1 on Win98SE.
Somewhat dry because could not use effects on drums IIRC.
I want to remix under Linux.
CW8.1 runs virtually perfect under Wine! 
I have the songs' CW Bundles files.
They opened and played just fine.

Bundle export possibilities from within CW:
Save as midi file plus export all wave tracks, then import
 the midi and waves into MusE.

Oh no!

CW allows midi (controllers) and waves on the same track.
For my wave tracks, these controllers adjust the Track Volume
 and Pan.

So when I save as midi, these controller graphs are then imported into 
 MusE just fine, as midi "Master Volume" and "Pan" controller graphs 
 in midi parts on individual tracks. 

So far, so good.

But... then what? There's currently no way to link these MusE 
 midi controller graphs with audio tracks (excluding synth tracks).
For example to link these imported midi controller Master Volume
 and Pan tracks to the corresponding Wave Track's audio Track Volume
 and Pan.
 
So coincidentally I am already doing some controller work.
(Florian I hope you saw the dialog snapshots.)
So now it's taken on a sense of urgency.
So the ol' wheels started turning of course, and I'm considering some paths
 to help me, each with strengths and drawbacks and challenges. [1]

[1]
Allright if you must know, path (A) is simply to allow my recent 
 midi-to-audio assignment feature dialog to allow the stream to come from 
 midi port *outputs*, not just direct midi inputs as now. Surprisingly easy,
 didn't think of before. I've thought of most everything, (A) is a winner and 
 actually simplifies my new assignment dialog. But a couple of tough 
 gotcha's I'm stuck on: Must allow user to set midi track's port to <none> 
 if desired (highly likely they don't want midi output /and/ sent to wave 
 track at same time), and that would take up several <none> ports for 
 several wave tracks - each must have its own Master Volume and Pan graphs.
This leads to path (B): Make Audio Tracks inherit from MidiDevice and
 MidiInstrument - thus becoming midi devices, just like synth tracks,
 and user can select /them/ not <none> as midi track output devices.
Yeah, I'm not crazy about (B): It still takes up midi ports, and midi notes 
 would be useless, with nowhere to go.
So from (B), path (C) would be some kind of bypassing of /precious/ 
 ports altogether, allowing "direct-to-device" (the Wave Tracks in this case) 
 output selection in midi tracks.
A thought occurred to me while considering that: Why the heck do we 
 force Synth Track midi devices to appear via midi ports? 
"A port is something to the outside, no?"
Direct-to-device is already kinda, sorta, weakly supported in a few very 
 skeletal spots in a few function in MusE. I had considered it before.
>From (C), path (D) is to fake the devices altogether and just have the 
 midi track output port popup include Audio Tracks and figure out a way
 from there to make it all work.

Note that in all of these cases the new midi-to-audio assignment mapping 
 dialog (see snapshots) or the existing use of ugly popup menus is still 
 required. The above text was mainly about the midi controllers, regardless 
 of mapping.

Note that modern CW has a feature where you can 'export' the midi graphs
 to audio graphs. Nice, that would help me now, but that's not real time.

Of course... if MusE allowed wave and midi parts on the same track...
Oh yeah, that! Well, it'd be tough and currently it's not the MusE way,
 but who knows, eh? 
The wheels turn...

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