From: Dan M. <al...@gm...> - 2012-12-10 08:04:51
|
Uh oh! On the whole, MusE 2 is shaping up to be significantly more user friendly and with a much nicer workflow than its Linux alternatives but I'm quite concerned about VST automation. I've had a few goes now with no luck and if I understand how I'm supposed to be doing this now it seems very messy in comparison with qtractor and A3's VST MIDI automation so I'm hoping its not too late to get something easier sorted out here. Your long explanation on VSTs vs DSSI plugins went over my head but basically I'd encourage you to look at how easy it is to add VST MIDI param automation to a track under qtractor and try to mimic that as closely as possible under Muse. Of course, qtractor shows the automation within the track instead of having a dedicated display area within its piano roll window like Muse - I'm not bothered about that aspect. Its having to assign a parameter to a controller which I find a messy and confusing process. I'm sorry but you'll have to be a bit more verbose in your instructions Tim if I'm to be successful in trying out the current implementation. Here's how I think it is supposed to work currently: Add your VST plugin in the arranger Click the numbers within the Automation column in the arranger for the VST plugin Find the parameter you wish to automate, then choose its 'Assign' sub menu This is the confusing bit now as I'm presented with a MIDI control window. The 'port' dropdown seems like it shouldn't really be a dropdown as you can't choose anything other than the current port anyway. What about the channel? Do I set that to the same channel as the synth or the MIDI track? Control type - I have no idea but I presume Control7 is a 7bit MIDI controller and Control14 is 14bit and that in most cases people should choose Control7 right? Hi and Lo? What are they for? It seems to me that Lo sets the actual MIDI controller number to assign to but I dunno why its called 'Lo' as no matter what setting I choose for control type 'Hi' never becomes available as a configurable setting. So basically I think all the user should need to do here is set the 'Lo' to the MIDI controller number they want to use for the chosen parameter but its an awfully confusing way to do it. Presuming I have assigned a controller to my parameter, I then go to the piano roll, click 'CTRL', go to the 'Common Controls' submenu, add a the relevant controller, draw stuff, play - nothing! :/ Thanks for your help Tim! On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Tim E. Real <ter...@ro...> wrote: > On December 9, 2012 01:09:13 PM Dan MacDonald wrote: > > > I've just had a quick play with the latest, vestige-using svn and I was > happy to see Noizemaker is working now and I can select presets for it > without > having to open its plugin window so good work there Tim! > > > > One of the biggest showstoppers for the VST support now seems to be > (easy) > parameter automation. If I add Aspect or Noizemaker to a session, assign > it to > a MIDI track, open its piano roll then click on the CTRL icon at the > bottom of > the piano roll I get the MIDI controllers menu and within that there is > 'Instrument Defined' with an 'Add' sub-menu that does nothing currently. > With > both of these synths I would expect to see 100+ parameters I should be > able to > choose to automate but this doesn't seem to be supported yet. > > > > I am looking in the right place here aren't I Tim? I expect its something > you've not added yet right? > > > > OK I think I've given poor Tim enough to chew on for the next week at > least > now! :D > > > > Thanks Tim! > > > > [Deep breath] Sigh. OK Read carefully, here's da situation wif da > automation: > > Short answer: You want the 'Automation' column in the Arranger Track List. > There you can assign midi controllers to the synth's parameters, as well as > any rack effects the track may possess. > > Long answer (grab a coffee): If you add a DSSI synth, you will notice that > the piano roll midi controller graphs DO list an entire series of > available > midi controllers for the synth. > > However, /that/ simply does the same thing as the 'Automation' > Track List column. It takes the incoming midi stream and /converts/ it > to a floating point stream which modifies the synth's parameters, > just as if you adjusted a slider or knob or switch etc. > (Keep in mind the 'Automation' Track List column was added quite later on.) > > But there's a difference with DDSI: It supports an actual assignment > scheme, > which is *crucial* for reporting to the user what is actually assignable ! > Otherwise you stuck reading from a 'cheat sheet' in the manual. > > VST does *not* have a scheme (at least <= 2.4 dunno 'bout 3) AFAICT. > > It is the reason when you try for example the fabulous XSynth DSSI > (try it!) the midi controller graphs list /two/ additional midi > controllers: > 5 Glide Rate, and 8 Oscillator Balance. These are /not/ floating point > audio 'parameters' like all the others listed - these are true integer > midi > controllers supported by DSSI. Smart, eh? It let's me report them to > users. > Now, about the others, the 32NF0 and so on, /these/ are floating point > parameters which *I* created to map to the parameters, arbitrarily > assigning > beginning at NRPN 14bit #0 (that's what the NF means), simply because > we had no /other/ mapping scheme at the time, so to get folks up and > running. > > But one problem is that the DSSI synths themselves can respond to certain > controllers and not even inform DSSI ! Thus we have no way of knowing > whether 99% of DSSI synths support Pitch Wheel or not for example, > because they don't report it - they just 'silently' accept it. > > OK, so about the VST: I've not done this arbitrary 32NF* assigning (yet) > because we have true parameter automation midi assignment in the Track > List. > However, the graphing is a bit weak but getting better. > And yes I realize it is desirable to have the midi graphs as well. > > Yeah been pondering it for a while (before VST). > When we have a midi controller stream which is assigned to an audio > parameter, > should we > a): record it only as audio automation graphs (midi data is lost!) > b): record it only as midi automation graphs (ironically converted as audio > parameters anyway!) > c): both > > Yeah was thinking, should I just dump the incoming midi stream 'as is' into > the midi graphs. Advantage is that the true original midi data is > preserved. > > OK now here's the real problem at the moment: > Waaay back at the front of the midi *input* driver side, we (blush) > actually > have *no* support for RPN NRPN controllers, only regular controller7 CCs ! > > You can /draw/ the graphs but there's no way to /record/ em ! > > Been studying the situmutation: I /could/ quickly add support > (it involves remembering 'current' (N)RPN H/L param numbers and so on) > but it pays no regard to what type of instrument is sending and whether > the numbers should be interpreted as RPN or NRPN for example. > A more elegant solution is... drum roll please... > INPUT Instruments > In addition to the output instruments that we have now. > That is, you tell MusE what kind of instrument is supplying midi input - > patches, supported (N)RPN controllers - the whole picture, and *then* > we'll talk, because I dunno if I can trust the numbers you're sending me! > He he... > > ** Before I forget, someone once asked about DAISY CHAINING MIDI. > I replied that it appears do-able with our Jack midi devices but not ALSA. > Yeah been pondering this. I think it would be relatively easy to change > MusE > from PER-PORT instruments to PER-CHANNEL instruments. > And be shown in the midi track info. (Yeah!) > That way the physical devices in the single midi 'chain' could be set to > different patches and so on. > I hope this would help solve the problem. > But I wondered about SYSEX support - how does one send SYSEX messages > (especially the 'generic' ones GM ON etc) to these individual devices? > SYSEX don't have channels. There /is/ a defined midi meta to set the > channel for that kind of thing but that's only midi files, not real-time. > > Cheers. Tim. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial > Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support > Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services > Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers > http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d > _______________________________________________ > Lmuse-user mailing list > Lmu...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lmuse-user > |