From: Michael G. <Mike.Grogan@Sun.COM> - 2003-06-17 00:53:15
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Hi There is a misunderstanding of what the JSR proposes here. See the draft at http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=223. The goal of the JSR is to provide a consistent and standard mechanism for scripting languages to use to access functionality implemented in Java. As the JSR points out, the way that Java objects are represented and accessed from a particular scripting language has to be specific to that language. A mechanism that required a scripting language implemented in Java to access other Java objects using JNI wouldn't make sense. The JSR doesn't propose that. The focus of the JSR is on web scripting. A major goal is to allow developers to bundle script pages in Java Web applications and provide a mechanism for those pages to access the standard Java web abstractions (request, response, context etc.) in a way that is consistent with the way they are accessed from Servlets and JSPs. Python/Jython is definitely one of the scripting languages we hope will benefit from the JSR. We welcome your input. //mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Cohen <fc...@pu...> Date: Monday, June 16, 2003 1:27 pm Subject: Re: [Jython-users] Scripting Pages in Java Web Applications > Hi Guido: It's an honor to write to you. Python is an excellent > piece > of work. Thank you for Python. > > I am using Jython embedded in my TestMaker open-source project as > a > utility and framework for building intelligent test agents to > check > Web-enabled applications for scalability, performance and > functionality. I am trying to convince developers, QA technicians > and > IT managers that Python is their lingua-franca to build better > software. Details are at http://www.pushtotest.com/ptt. > > In my opinion JSR 223 is not worthy of support. JSR 223 implements > a > very un-Java like way to bridge Java objects to script language > functions. 223 aims to provide a native interface to make calls > from a > Java object to a limited number of common scripting functions. > While > there may be times when a native interface is useful, I would > never > like to include a native interface in my production-ready code. > It's > asking for problems, including: > > 1) Weak exception handling. If my scripting language interpreter > runs > externally to the Java VM then how do I handle recovering from an > exception in the interpreter? > 2) Slower performance. Native interfaces take processing time and > memory to make a call to an external function. > 3) Fewer expert resources to help me code. Look at how few > engineers > there are with production JNI experience. > > In my view, JSR 223 should be restarted. I believe Jython's use of > Java > byte codes is a much better design. > > Jython compiles Python scripts into Java byte codes. The Python > script > in Jython is 100% Java and runs as native Java code through the > VM. > Imagine if JSR 223 standardized the way script languages compiled > scripts into Java byte-codes. You could have PHP, Python, Ruby, > and > anything else... and they would all be 100% Java. > > Support for Java byte-codes is important in the middleware space, > where > J2EE and .NET are battling it out for developer mindshare and > support. > Microsoft has done an excellent job at building its CLR virtual > machine > to support multiple object-oriented languages. The Java platform > would > be so much better with multiple language support... all running on > the > Java VM. > > -Frank Cohen > http://www.pushtotest.com/ptt > TestMaker 4.0 now shipping > > > On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 06:59 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > A journalist reporting on JavaOne pointed me to the following Java > > standardization effort: > > > > http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=223 > > > > AFAICT (after reading the first two sentences) this is an > attempt to > > open up room for scripting languages in J2EE environments. Anyone > > interested in pursueing this? > > > > --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: eBay > > Great deals on office technology -- on eBay now! Click here: > > http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5 > > _______________________________________________ > > Jython-users mailing list > > Jyt...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users > > > > > -- > Frank Cohen, Founder, PushToTest, http://www.PushToTest.com, > phone: 408 > 374 7426 > Come to PushToTest for free open-source test automation solutions > that > test and monitor > Web-enabled applications, especially Web Services for scalability > and > reliability. > > > |