Re: [Gramps-users] compound surnames (portuguese)

[lcc <lc...@6z...>]

I think using the "patronymic" field would be interesting. Maybe there
could be a name change for this field, from "patronymic" to "middle name"
which is more general.

--lcc

On Mon, 08/10/2009 at 12:07pm, "Frederico Muñoz" <fs...@gm...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 2009/8/10 Benny Malengier <ben...@gm...>:
>> I would expect you then use the callname to indicate the used first name.
>> In the case of a woman  Jane Mathilde Soares de Sousa, it would be
>> Type: birth name
>> First name: Jane Mathilde Soares
>> Callname: Jane
>> Family name: de Sousa
> 
> Perhaps... we don't general have the concept of "call name", merely of
> first name and surnames. One exception being, and the one that I think
> more closely follows the intente of callname, first name combinations
> like "Ana Filipa" (Ana being a rather common name) in which some
> people go by "Filipa". These are "compound first names" which are very
> common and generally when asked for their name people will reply "Ana
> Filipa" (whereas I will simply reply Frederico).
> 
> 
>> So she is grouped under the 'de Sousa' family name
>> and a second name:
>> Type: married name
>> First name : Jane Mathilde de Sousa
>> Callname: Jane
>> Family name: Seaman
> 
> Yes, if (like me) you're using the maiden name. I always use the last
> surname as the grouping name, to the point were I don't actually use
> the grouping feature (except for alternative spellings).
> 
> 
>> Using the Group as feature more extensively, it would be instead:
>> 
>> Type: birth name
>> First name: Jane Mathilde
>> Callname: Jane
>> Family name: Soares de Sousa
>> Group as: de Sousa
>> 
>> So she is grouped again under the 'de Sousa' family name
>> and a second name:
>> Type: married name
>> First name : Jane Mathilde
>> Callname: Jane
>> Family name: de Sousa Seaman
>> Group as: Seaman
> 
> This was my second option above, although it honestly looks like to
> much trouble and not really tied to how we perceive surnames around
> here. In general - and with the exception of holders of titles, etc. -
> the family names are not viewed in those terms, only the last name is
> used, there is no special allowance for coupling the last surnames as
> a unit. E.g. the sibling of Jane Seaman would always be considered
> first and foremost a Seaman, etc.
> 
> 
>> As a western European I would go for the second scheme I think, but if
>> a Southern European genealogist says scheme 1 is good, then that
>> should carry more weight :-)
> 
> Well, this is not even a Southern European thing AFAIK ;)... perhaps
> Iberian in the way that the surnames of the mother and father are used
> (and then again with differences between Portugal and Spain in what
> regards the order of the names), and as I said it is not exactly
> codified, and it isn't even some ancient tradition. I only have 3
> names (first name, surname of mother, surname of father), some people
> have around 6 names (two first names, the two surnames of the mother,
> the two surnames of the father), some something in between, etc.
> 
> I understand that perhaps this sounds a bit weird to those used to
> "anglo-saxon" (for lack of a better word) naming schemes. In the end
> though I can say that the general practice is to only consider the
> last surname as the "family name", and this is how it is used e.g. in
> the Army, in surname ordered admission listings, etc. However I do
> agree that both approaches are possible, and if the second one somehow
> feels more natural to the person doing the entry go for it :) Just be
> prepared to have to adapt it severely once your investigation reaches
> 2 generations (or to put it better, be prepared to come up with
> something that will apply when this apparently "neat" ordering of
> names doesn't exist).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Frederico
> 
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