RE: [Algorithms] large terrain with lots of dynamic changes

[James M. <Jam...@vi...>]

Yeah.=20Both=20are=20ultimately=20attempts=20to=20maximise=20batch-sizes,=20=
in=20an
attempt=20to=20reduce=20the=20overhead=20associated=20with=20drawing,=20wh=
ether=20that=20be
from=20Draw*Primitive=20overhead=20or=20state=20changes.

Just=20keep=20those=20pipelines=20chock=20full=20and=20those=20triangles=20=
a'flowin!=20:-)

--
James=20Milne=20=20

>=20-----Original=20Message-----
>=20From:=20g...@li...=20
>=20[mailto:gda...@li...]=20On=20
>=20Behalf=20Of=20Matthew=20Harmon
>=20Sent:=2001=20June=202005=2014:34
>=20To:=20g...@li...
>=20Subject:=20RE:=20[Algorithms]=20large=20terrain=20with=20lots=20of=20d=
ynamic=20changes
>=20
>=20Yes,=20these=20optimizations=20help=20quite=20a=20bit,=20but=20I=20thi=
nk=20mostly=20
>=20because=20"draw"
>=20calls=20can=20be=20an=20even=20bigger=20enemy=20than=20state=20changes=
.=20=20
>=20
>=20-----Original=20Message-----
>=20From:=20g...@li...
>=20[mailto:gda...@li...]=20On=20
>=20Behalf=20Of=20James
>=20Milne
>=20Sent:=20Wednesday,=20June=2001,=202005=208:01=20AM
>=20To:=20g...@li...
>=20Subject:=20RE:=20[Algorithms]=20large=20terrain=20with=20lots=20of=20d=
ynamic=20changes
>=20
>=20You=20shouldn't=20need=20on=20VB/IB=20per=20terrain=20block.=20There's=
=20nothing=20to=20stop
>=20you=20having=20multiple=20terrain=20blocks=20stored=20in=20one=20VB/IB=
=20pair.=20You=20can
>=20update=20a=20subregion=20of=20your=20VB/IB=20when=20you=20perform=20yo=
ur=20deformations.
>=20Both=20DirectX=20and=20OpenGL=20allow=20you=20to=20render=20a=20sub-re=
gion=20of=20your
>=20vertex/index=20buffers.=20Also,=20you=20should=20build=20atlases=20you=
r=20textures=20as
>=20far=20as=20possible.=20(An=20atlas=20has=20multiple=20different=20text=
ure=20
>=20maps=20stored=20in
>=20one=20texture=20map.)=20
>=20
>=20State=20changes=20are=20the=20enemy=20(tm).
>=20
>=20If=20you=20have=20access=20to=20vertex=20shader=20hardware,=20you=20mi=
ght=20consider
>=20implementing=20a=20'non-destructive'=20deformation=20system.=20In=20th=
is=20case,=20you
>=20are=20simply=20updating=20weights=20on=20the=20terrain=20that=20perfor=
m=20some=20sort=20of
>=20height-based=20deformation=20to=20the=20vertices=20in=20a=20vertex=20s=
hader.=20
>=20This=20would
>=20allow=20you=20to=20simply=20update=20a=20separate=20stream=20of=20vert=
ex=20data,=20without
>=20having=20to=20upload=20whole=20new=20vertices=20to=20the=20GPU.
>=20
>=20--
>=20James=20Milne=20=20
>=20
>=20>=20-----Original=20Message-----
>=20>=20From:=20g...@li...=20
>=20>=20[mailto:gda...@li...]=20On=20
>=20>=20Behalf=20Of=20Matthew=20Harmon
>=20>=20Sent:=2001=20June=202005=2013:48
>=20>=20To:=20g...@li...
>=20>=20Subject:=20RE:=20[Algorithms]=20large=20terrain=20with=20lots=20of=
=20dynamic=20changes
>=20>=20
>=20>=20Hey=20Ryan:
>=20>=20
>=20>=20Just=20some=20more=20ideas.=20=20In=20my=20system=20(as=20in=20man=
y=20others),=20the=20
>=20>=20terrain=20is
>=20>=20subdivided=20into=20blocks=20to=20aid=20in=20fast=20rendering,=20c=
ulling,=20
>=20>=20texturing,=20etc.=20=20I
>=20>=20currently=20block=20the=20terrain=20at=2032x32=20tiles=20(33x33=20=
posts),=20and=20
>=20>=20each=20has=20its
>=20>=20own=20vertex=20buffer.=20=20This=20requires=20more=20VB=20switches=
,=20but=20
>=20you're=20likely
>=20>=20switching=20textures,=20LODs,=20etc.=20so=20there=20may=20be=20no=20=
overhead=20there.
>=20>=20
>=20>=20Anyway,=20this=20system=20also=20helps=20with=20dynamic=20deformat=
ions=20as=20
>=20only=20those
>=20>=20blocks=20that=20are=20affected=20need=20to=20be=20updated.=20=20Ju=
st=20mark=20them=20
>=20>=20as=20"dirty"=20and
>=20>=20update=20the=20vertex=20buffer=20from=20your=20master=20elevations=
=20held=20in=20
>=20>=20system=20RAM.
>=20>=20But=20only=20do=20this=20when=20you=20need=20to=20actually=20see=20=
the=20particular=20
>=20>=20tile.=20=20No
>=20>=20sense=20in=20uploading=20things=20that=20are=20out=20of=20the=20vi=
ew.
>=20>=20
>=20>=20Matt
>=20>=20
>=20>=20-----Original=20Message-----
>=20>=20From:=20g...@li...
>=20>=20[mailto:gda...@li...]=20On=20
>=20>=20Behalf=20Of=20Shamim
>=20>=20Sent:=20Wednesday,=20June=2001,=202005=202:13=20AM
>=20>=20To:=20g...@li...
>=20>=20Subject:=20Re:=20RES:=20[Algorithms]=20large=20terrain=20with=20lo=
ts=20of=20
>=20>=20dynamic=20changes
>=20>=20
>=20>=20Hi=20Ryan,
>=20>=20
>=20>=20You=20can=20create=20a=20big=20terrain=20with=20one=20vertex=20buf=
fer.=20However,=20do=20an
>=20>=20update=20on=20the=20vertex=20buffer=20only=20when=20there=20is=20a=
=20deformation=20on=20the
>=20>=20terrain=20and=20also=20update=20only=20those=20vertices=20wich=20h=
ave=20changed.
>=20>=20However,=20if=20your=20deformation=20creates=20new=20vertices=20or=
=20
>=20removes=20vertices
>=20>=20then=20probably=20you=20might=20need=20to=20think=20about=20some=20=
other=20methods.
>=20>=20
>=20>=20Deformation=20can=20be=20applied=20to=20the=20vertices=20very=20ef=
ficiently=20
>=20if=20you=20do
>=20>=20a=20proper=20grid-culling=20of=20the=20terrain.=20Examples=20of=20=
deformation
>=20>=20operators=20could=20be=20SphereDeformer,=20CubicDeformer=20and=20s=
o=20on.
>=20>=20
>=20>=20Cheers
>=20>=20Shamim
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20On=205/6/05,=20Rodrigo=20H.=20<pha...@ya...>=20wrote:
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20Hi,
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20Black=20and=20White=202=20(from=20Lionhead=20studios,=20Peter=20=
Molyneux)=20
>=20>=20had=20real-time
>=20>=20>=20terrain=20"shaping"=20(not=20sure=20if=20such=20a=20word=20exi=
sts=20=3D)=20backed=20
>=20>=20by=20a=20physical
>=20>=20>=20engine.=20He=20presented=20the=20game=20at=20GDC=20(you=20can=20=
watch=20his=20
>=20presentation
>=20>=20through
>=20>=20>=20GDCTV=20at=20http://www.pqhp.com/cmp/gdctv/)=20and=20maybe=20i=
t=20may=20
>=20>=20interest=20you,
>=20>=20give
>=20>=20>=20you=20tips=20of=20what=20you=20should=20look=20for.
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20Rodrigo=20Greselle=20Hartmann
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20-----Mensagem=20original-----
>=20>=20>=20De:=20g...@li...
>=20>=20>=20[mailto:gda...@li...]=20Em=20=

>=20>=20nome=20de=20Ryan=20De
>=20>=20>=20Boer
>=20>=20>=20Enviada=20em:=20sexta-feira,=206=20de=20maio=20de=202005=2000:=
58
>=20>=20>=20Para:=20g...@li...
>=20>=20>=20Assunto:=20[Algorithms]=20large=20terrain=20with=20lots=20of=20=
dynamic=20changes
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20We=20want=20a=20very=20large=20terrain=20with=20lots=20of=20dy=
namic=20changes=20that=20can
>=20>=20>=20happen=20locally=20in=20different=20areas.=20We=20are=20worrie=
d=20about,=20
>=20for=20example
>=20>=20>=20having=20one=20big=20vertex=20buffer=20and=20having=20to=20sen=
d=20lots=20of=20
>=20data=20to=20the
>=20>=20>=20graphics=20card=20every=20frame=20(which=20doesn't=20scale=20w=
ell).=20We=20
>=20>=20also=20want=20an
>=20>=20>=20algorithm=20that=20allows=20it=20to=20be=20easy=20to=20modify=20=
the=20terrain's=20visual
>=20>=20>=20quality=20by=20an=20artist.=20Maybe=20some=20of=20you=20with=20=
experience=20deforming
>=20>=20>=20terrain=20dynamically=20with=20explosions=20etc=20can=20shed=20=
some=20
>=20light=20on=20some
>=20>=20>=20algorithms=20that=20might=20be=20good=20to=20look=20at.=20A=20=
lot=20of=20the=20
>=20>=20ideas=20from=20static
>=20>=20>=20terrain=20algorithms=20may=20not=20work=20well=20for=20dynamic=
=20terrain.=20
>=20I=20know=20one
>=20>=20>=20answer=20will=20be=20ROAM,=20but=20are=20there=20any=20others?=
=20Any=20papers=20
>=20>=20to=20read=20would
>=20>=20>=20be=20helpful.
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20-Ryan=20De=20Boer
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20This=20message=20contains=20confidential=20information=20and=20=
is=20
>=20>=20intended=20only=20for
>=20>=20the
>=20>=20>=20individual(s)=20named.=20If=20you=20are=20not=20the=20named=20=
addressee=20you=20
>=20>=20should=20not
>=20>=20>=20disseminate,=20distribute=20or=20copy=20this=20e-mail.=20Pleas=
e=20
>=20>=20immediately=20delete=20it
>=20>=20>=20and=20all=20copies=20of=20it=20from=20your=20system,=20destroy=
=20any=20hard=20
>=20>=20copies=20of=20it,=20and
>=20>=20>=20notify=20the=20sender.=20E-mail=20transmission=20cannot=20be=20=
guaranteed=20
>=20>=20to=20be=20secure
>=20>=20or
>=20>=20>=20error-free=20as=20information=20could=20be=20intercepted,=20co=
rrupted,=20lost,
>=20>=20destroyed,
>=20>=20>=20arrive=20late=20or=20incomplete,=20or=20contain=20viruses.=20T=
o=20the=20
>=20maximum=20extent
>=20>=20>=20permitted=20by=20law,=20Immersive=20Technologies=20Pty.=20Ltd.=
=20does=20not=20accept
>=20>=20liability
>=20>=20>=20for=20any=20errors=20or=20omissions=20in=20the=20contents=20of=
=20this=20message=20
>=20>=20which=20arise=20as
>=20>=20a
>=20>=20>=20result=20of=20e-mail=20transmission.
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20-------------------------------------------------------
>=20>=20>=20This=20SF.Net=20email=20is=20sponsored=20by:=20NEC=20IT=20Guy=20=
Games.
>=20>=20>=20Get=20your=20fingers=20limbered=20up=20and=20give=20it=20your=20=
best=20shot.=204=20
>=20>=20great=20events,=204
>=20>=20>=20opportunities=20to=20win=20big!=20Highest=20score=20wins.NEC=20=
IT=20Guy=20
>=20>=20Games.=20Play=20to
>=20>=20>=20win=20an=20NEC=2061=20plasma=20display.=20Visit=20http://www.n=
ecitguy.com/?r
>=20>=20>=20_______________________________________________
>=20>=20>=20GDAlgorithms-list=20mailing=20list
>=20>=20>=20G...@li...
>=20>=20>=20https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list=

>=20>=20>=20Archives:
>=20>=20>=20http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20>=20-------------------------------------------------------
>=20>=20>=20This=20SF.Net=20email=20is=20sponsored=20by:=20NEC=20IT=20Guy=20=
Games.
>=20>=20>=20Get=20your=20fingers=20limbered=20up=20and=20give=20it=20your=20=
best=20shot.=204=20
>=20>=20great=20events,=204
>=20>=20>=20opportunities=20to=20win=20big!=20Highest=20score=20wins.NEC=20=
IT=20Guy=20
>=20>=20Games.=20Play=20to
>=20>=20>=20win=20an=20NEC=2061=20plasma=20display.=20Visit=20http://www.n=
ecitguy.com/?r=3D20
>=20>=20>=20_______________________________________________
>=20>=20>=20GDAlgorithms-list=20mailing=20list
>=20>=20>=20G...@li...
>=20>=20>=20https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list=

>=20>=20>=20Archives:
>=20>=20>=20http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D6188
>=20>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20--=20
>=20>=20Best=20Regards
>=20>=20Shamim=20Akhtar
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20-------------------------------------------------------
>=20>=20This=20SF.Net=20email=20is=20sponsored=20by=20Yahoo.
>=20>=20Introducing=20Yahoo!=20Search=20Developer=20Network=20-=20Create=20=
apps=20
>=20using=20Yahoo!
>=20>=20Search=20APIs=20Find=20out=20how=20you=20can=20build=20Yahoo!=20di=
rectly=20into=20your=20own
>=20>=20Applications=20-=20visit=20
>=20>=20http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=3Dfad-ysdn-ostg-q22005
>=20>=20_______________________________________________
>=20>=20GDAlgorithms-list=20mailing=20list
>=20>=20G...@li...
>=20>=20https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
>=20>=20Archives:
>=20>=20http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20>=20-------------------------------------------------------
>=20>=20This=20SF.Net=20email=20is=20sponsored=20by=20Yahoo.
>=20>=20Introducing=20Yahoo!=20Search=20Developer=20Network=20-=20Create=20=
apps=20
>=20using=20Yahoo!
>=20>=20Search=20APIs=20Find=20out=20how=20you=20can=20build=20Yahoo!=20di=
rectly=20into=20your=20own
>=20>=20Applications=20-=20visit=20
>=20>=20http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=3Doffad-ysdn-ostg-q22005
>=20>=20_______________________________________________
>=20>=20GDAlgorithms-list=20mailing=20list
>=20>=20G...@li...
>=20>=20https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
>=20>=20Archives:
>=20>=20http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88
>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20______________________________________________________________________=

>=20>=20This=20email=20has=20been=20scanned=20by=20the=20MessageLabs=20Ema=
il=20
>=20Security=20System.
>=20>=20For=20more=20information=20please=20visit=20http://www.messagelabs=
.com/email=20
>=20>=20
>=20______________________________________________________________________=

>=20>=20
>=20>=20
>=20
>=20______________________________________________________________________=

>=20This=20email=20has=20been=20scanned=20by=20the=20MessageLabs=20Email=20=
Security=20System.
>=20For=20more=20information=20please=20visit=20http://www.messagelabs.com=
/email=20
>=20______________________________________________________________________=

>=20
>=20
>=20-------------------------------------------------------
>=20This=20SF.Net=20email=20is=20sponsored=20by=20Yahoo.
>=20Introducing=20Yahoo!=20Search=20Developer=20Network=20-=20Create=20app=
s=20using=20Yahoo!
>=20Search=20APIs=20Find=20out=20how=20you=20can=20build=20Yahoo!=20direct=
ly=20into=20your=20own
>=20Applications=20-=20visit=20
>=20http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=3Dfad-ysdn-ostg-q22005
>=20_______________________________________________
>=20GDAlgorithms-list=20mailing=20list
>=20G...@li...
>=20https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
>=20Archives:
>=20http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20-------------------------------------------------------
>=20This=20SF.Net=20email=20is=20sponsored=20by=20Yahoo.
>=20Introducing=20Yahoo!=20Search=20Developer=20Network=20-=20Create=20app=
s=20using=20Yahoo!
>=20Search=20APIs=20Find=20out=20how=20you=20can=20build=20Yahoo!=20direct=
ly=20into=20your=20own
>=20Applications=20-=20visit=20
>=20http://developer.yahoo.net/?fr=3Doffad-ysdn-ostg-q22005
>=20_______________________________________________
>=20GDAlgorithms-list=20mailing=20list
>=20G...@li...
>=20https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list
>=20Archives:
>=20http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D6188
>=20
>=20______________________________________________________________________=

>=20This=20email=20has=20been=20scanned=20by=20the=20MessageLabs=20Email=20=
Security=20System.
>=20For=20more=20information=20please=20visit=20http://www.messagelabs.com=
/email=20
>=20______________________________________________________________________=

>=20
>=20

______________________________________________________________________
This=20email=20has=20been=20scanned=20by=20the=20MessageLabs=20Email=20Sec=
urity=20System.
For=20more=20information=20please=20visit=20http://www.messagelabs.com/ema=
il=20
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