Re: [Emc-users] EMC communication problem then motor start

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I know most tricks how it should be done in theory but have some limited experience practice. There are also some difference to be in a well supplied electronic lab as solving the problem in a limited time with some scrapped chokes avialable at the same time take care of a child.

Nicklas Karlsson

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:54:59 -0600
John Figie <zep...@gm...> wrote:

> Many commercially available PWM drives require using shielded cable for the
> motor.  Also shielded Ethernet cable is used in many industrial
> applications, but for the shielded Ethernet cable to work you must also
> have RJ-45 connectors that have a metal shell with tabs to touch the shield
> on the cable connector.
> 
> John Figie
> 
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Karlsson & Wang <
> nic...@ka...> wrote:
> 
> > I would place the bead closer to the driver but I may be wrong. I assume
> > fast voltage transistion is generated by the transistor so it would be
> > better to limit the voltage derivative or in this case it will be a high
> > frequency impedance in form of an inductor with a few turns with some space
> > in between. I expect the tightly linded motor windings to have some
> > parasitic impedance which I want to work around but I may be wrong.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:17:48 +0200
> > Marius Liebenberg <ma...@ma...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 2014-11-26 22:12, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 26 Nov 2014, Karlsson & Wang wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:53:56 +0100
> > > >> From: Karlsson & Wang <nic...@ka...>
> > > >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > > >>      <emc...@li...>
> > > >> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> > emc...@li...>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] EMC communication problem then motor start
> > > >>
> > > >> The switching is very fast because gate transistor is 10 ohm so I
> > will increase as an intermediate solution. The problem is however still
> > interesting because it is so common.
> > > >>
> > > >> Nicklas Karlsson
> > > >>
> > > > One option that helps a lot on PWM drives is a common mode choke on
> > the PWM
> > > > outputs (a large ferrite bead on the 2 (DC) or 3 (AC) motor wires).
> > One major
> > > > problem with PWM outputs without slew rate limiting driving motor
> > windings is
> > > > the nearly unlimited current spike that happens at switching time
> > because
> > > > of the very fast slew rate PWM signal driving into wiring/ motor
> > winding to
> > > > ground capacitance.
> > > >
> > > Would you place the bead closer to the drive or closer to the motor?
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 19:34:44 +0000
> > > >> David Armstrong <cnc...@gm...> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> i normaly make sure that all low voltage wiring is sheilded and
> > watch for
> > > >>> ground loops and vfd inputs are via filters and Balance transformers
> > ,
> > > >>> ethernet coms are usually problem free so long as you use good
> > cables and
> > > >>> not the cheap Aluminium wire ones as they are using balanced paired
> > cores
> > > >>>   , in 2 real major projects i ended up passing the low volt cables
> > inside
> > > >>> sheilding cut from ur67 coax
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 26 November 2014 at 18:40, Karlsson & Wang <
> > > >>> nic...@ka...> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> I have tried with USB isolator made with Icoupler devices from
> > analog
> > > >>>> devices on other products without luck. I am using ethernet which I
> > think
> > > >>>> have a isolation transformer. I do not think there are any
> > tolerances for
> > > >>>> missed packets right now. For serial communication I have tried opto
> > > >>>> couplers without with some improvement. I have also tried isolation
> > devices
> > > >>>> from I think Texas instruments made from differential drive over two
> > > >>>> capacitors and they are great but I do not think I could use them
> > for
> > > >>>> 100Mbit ethernet.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I will increase tolerance for missed packets to be able to measure
> > > >>>> percentage of lost packets, it is not perfect but better than
> > nothing. I
> > > >>>> will also add a common mode inductor and maybe a shielded cable.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I have encountered the problem on several products so it is not
> > isolated
> > > >>>> to just this one I built myself.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Nicklas Karlsson
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 19:28:25 +0200
> > > >>>> Marius Liebenberg <ma...@ma...> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> I have had many problems with USB communications with motors and
> > plasma.
> > > >>>>> You can overcome these by putting an electrically isolated barrier
> > in
> > > >>>>> the usb line. There are some chips from Linear (LTM2448) that will
> > do
> > > >>>>> just that. The equipment on either end cannot be connected to the
> > same
> > > >>>>> ground or supply if you go this route.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On 2014-11-26 19:07, Karlsson & Wang wrote:
> > > >>>>>> PWM is great for efficient motor but unfortunately it is also very
> > > >>>> good at disturbing digital communication. Do anybody had any
> > problems with
> > > >>>> the communication errors then motor start?
> > > >>>>>> Nicklas Karlsson
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> > > >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Regards /Groete
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Marius D. Liebenberg
> > > >>>>> +27 82 698 3251
> > > >>>>> +27 12 743 6064
> > > >>>>> QQ 1767394877
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
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> > > >>
> > > > Peter Wallace
> > > > Mesa Electronics
> > > >
> > > > (\__/)
> > > > (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> > > > (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Regards /Groete
> > >
> > > Marius D. Liebenberg
> > > +27 82 698 3251
> > > +27 12 743 6064
> > > QQ 1767394877
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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