From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-07-30 21:12:48
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 16:12 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by laughingman182 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |
From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-07-30 21:15:29
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 16:12 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by laughingman182 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None >Priority: 7 Private: No Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |
From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-08-02 18:27:06
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 17:12 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by nwalsh You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 7 Private: No Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Date: 2011-08-02 14:27 Message: DocBook focuses on markup for technical documentation, specifically documents about computer hardware and software. I wonder if the Publishing subcommittee would be interested in music markup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |
From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-08-08 21:27:31
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 16:12 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by laughingman182 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 7 >Private: Yes Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Date: 2011-08-02 13:27 Message: DocBook focuses on markup for technical documentation, specifically documents about computer hardware and software. I wonder if the Publishing subcommittee would be interested in music markup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |
From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-08-17 17:04:52
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 17:12 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by nwalsh You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None >Priority: 5 Private: Yes Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Date: 2011-08-02 14:27 Message: DocBook focuses on markup for technical documentation, specifically documents about computer hardware and software. I wonder if the Publishing subcommittee would be interested in music markup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |
From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-08-17 17:06:58
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 14:12 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by bobstayton You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 >Private: No Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Date: 2011-08-02 11:27 Message: DocBook focuses on markup for technical documentation, specifically documents about computer hardware and software. I wonder if the Publishing subcommittee would be interested in music markup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |
From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-10-23 16:46:00
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 16:12 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by laughingman182 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Date: 2011-10-23 11:45 Message: I've actually begun a project on Google code to cover music markup. It's based on ABC music notation, and if anyone wants to contribute, email me. It follows the design of ABC notation as closely as possible, so updates should follow the ABC notation standard at http://abcnotation.com. the project is here: http://code.google.com/p/sfzml/. The mark up uses RELAX NG to describe the grammar allowed, but the Schematron schema is going to cover all the rules of Western music notation, as well as certain markup constraints as needed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Date: 2011-08-02 13:27 Message: DocBook focuses on markup for technical documentation, specifically documents about computer hardware and software. I wonder if the Publishing subcommittee would be interested in music markup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |
From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-11-16 10:03:25
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 14:12 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by rkerry You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: R Kerry (rkerry) Date: 2011-11-16 02:03 Message: Is it really DocBook's place to define its own music notation system ? Music notation is quite a complex subject; ABC, mentioned here, is quite straightforward. Lilypond takes the subject and runs with it. It can be as simple as ABC but extends to cover every part of notation I've ever seen and many I haven't. However neither of these is XML. I don't know the scope of MusicXml but obviously it is XML. I don't think DocBook should try to define any of this for itself. However, what should be available is a mechanism whereby other markups can be inserted in a DocBook document. I may wish to write a book about music, in docbook, using Lilypond for the music examples, and DocBook and its tools could be made able to handle them. So DocBook would just need to have a means of hosting other markups. I believe a mechanism like this is already available for MathXml (is it available for any XML or is MathXml explicitly handled ?). I don't know whether the mechanism used there would extend to other systems, especially non-XML ones. A mechanism such as this may allow other specialist mark-ups, both XML and non-XML to be hosted within a docBook document. It may be that they are present as literal data, or a reference to a file. Hope this helps, Regards, Richard. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Date: 2011-10-23 09:45 Message: I've actually begun a project on Google code to cover music markup. It's based on ABC music notation, and if anyone wants to contribute, email me. It follows the design of ABC notation as closely as possible, so updates should follow the ABC notation standard at http://abcnotation.com. the project is here: http://code.google.com/p/sfzml/. The mark up uses RELAX NG to describe the grammar allowed, but the Schematron schema is going to cover all the rules of Western music notation, as well as certain markup constraints as needed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Date: 2011-08-02 11:27 Message: DocBook focuses on markup for technical documentation, specifically documents about computer hardware and software. I wonder if the Publishing subcommittee would be interested in music markup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |
From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2011-11-16 16:55:32
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RFEs item #3383019, was opened at 2011-07-30 14:12 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by lrrathp You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: DocBook Group: None >Status: Closed >Resolution: Rejected Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Assigned to: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Summary: DocBook Music Notation Initial Comment: I'be been using DocBook for some time now, and I've noticed the lack of support for a formal syntax to use for music notation. I have found MusicXML, but that standard is maintained using DTDs; it hasn't even started using RELAX NG or Schematron, calling them "immature" schema languages. I've also been a percussionist for the past 10 years, and if I've noticed anything on music notation, DTDs are a downright joke to try and make a decent music notation markup language; music is simply too complex in nature. I'd like others opinions to help add a useful, well-defined music notation markup language to DocBook. Thanks to anyone who can help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Larry Rowland (lrrathp) Date: 2011-11-16 08:55 Message: Thank you for your suggestion. The DocBook technical committee has considered your request. Name spaces were added to DocBook 5, specifically to allow mixing other XML-based grammars with DocBook. I have looked at the 3.0 release of MusicXML, and it seems to be quite expressive (although I am not a musician) and to already have a lot of supporting technology for rendering the markup into output formats. They have also added XSD schema support to the 3.0 release. The committee has decided not to directly address music notation for a couple of reasons: 1. It is outside the intended scope of DocBook (which is technical documentation). 2. The name space mechanism allows including other, specialized, XML-based notation schemas. While the definitive notation schema for DocBook is RNG with schematron, it is also available in XSD and DTDs (although with reduced quality of representation of the schema). Good luck with developing a new schema for music notation. Schema development is challenging, as is producing the tools to render the schema into useful representations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: R Kerry (rkerry) Date: 2011-11-16 02:03 Message: Is it really DocBook's place to define its own music notation system ? Music notation is quite a complex subject; ABC, mentioned here, is quite straightforward. Lilypond takes the subject and runs with it. It can be as simple as ABC but extends to cover every part of notation I've ever seen and many I haven't. However neither of these is XML. I don't know the scope of MusicXml but obviously it is XML. I don't think DocBook should try to define any of this for itself. However, what should be available is a mechanism whereby other markups can be inserted in a DocBook document. I may wish to write a book about music, in docbook, using Lilypond for the music examples, and DocBook and its tools could be made able to handle them. So DocBook would just need to have a means of hosting other markups. I believe a mechanism like this is already available for MathXml (is it available for any XML or is MathXml explicitly handled ?). I don't know whether the mechanism used there would extend to other systems, especially non-XML ones. A mechanism such as this may allow other specialist mark-ups, both XML and non-XML to be hosted within a docBook document. It may be that they are present as literal data, or a reference to a file. Hope this helps, Regards, Richard. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Lee Savide (laughingman182) Date: 2011-10-23 09:45 Message: I've actually begun a project on Google code to cover music markup. It's based on ABC music notation, and if anyone wants to contribute, email me. It follows the design of ABC notation as closely as possible, so updates should follow the ABC notation standard at http://abcnotation.com. the project is here: http://code.google.com/p/sfzml/. The mark up uses RELAX NG to describe the grammar allowed, but the Schematron schema is going to cover all the rules of Western music notation, as well as certain markup constraints as needed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Norman Walsh (nwalsh) Date: 2011-08-02 11:27 Message: DocBook focuses on markup for technical documentation, specifically documents about computer hardware and software. I wonder if the Publishing subcommittee would be interested in music markup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384107&aid=3383019&group_id=21935 |