Re: [CF-maps] Big world roads

[Mark W. <mw...@so...>]

Andreas Vogl wrote:
> Mark Wedel wrote:

> Sorry, but I really don't understand this.
> What is the difference between a big and a small worldmap,
> when you can still pass freely in all directions?
> The only difference is that on a big world, players need
> to wait while going from A to B. That means effectively
> we have just added an annoyance factor to travelling
> from A to B, and nothing else.
> Movement penaltys would just add to that. There is
> nothing interesting or clever about waiting to arrive
> at point B.

  There are several things the big world maps:

1) A sense of scale.  Now walking accross the world is a bigger journey than 
walking accross the town is.
2) More spread out dungeons - in many cases, dungeons are still somewhat 
clustered around the towns, but on the old maps, it was getting to the point 
there was a dungeon every 5-10 spaces on some of the maps.  This also means that 
it is much less likely that the player will randomly run across some specialized 
dungeon.
3) With #1 above, better integration of maps.  Towns are on the same scale of 
the bigworld maps, and for several of the dungeons (like the tower of the 
stars), there is no longer an entrance map - it is now directly placed on the 
world map.


> 
> What a big world *could* provide is making travel
> adventurous. There can be monsters and quests directly
> on the worldmap.

  Nothing about controlling movement really changes the ability to do that.


> Second, the world can be structured. That means some
> places cannot be passed without doing this and that.
> Some places can be reserved for players of certain
> levels in certain skills.
> All of this requires blocking tiles, acting as walls.

  If this is done in moderation/for specific map areas, that is fine (eg, the 
canyon to XYZ's cave is only passable by someone that has done ABC).

  However, I don't really want to see something where the only way to get from 
point A to B is by a few very specific routes because any of the other ones are 
blocked off or flow is seriously controlled.

  Another point to bring up is spells.  What about fly?  Dimension door?  In 
theory, you should be able to fly over most obstacles (rivers, forests, hills, 
mountains, etc).  Currently the code doesn't support it, but I do see support 
getting added that say someone can fly over this space, but not walk over it. 
This is just something to keep in mind if you try to block the world with 
various means.


> And another issue: What good is a huge world with
> free movement anyways, when you can't find a thing
> on it? How is a new player supposed to ever find a
> dungeon of suitable difficulty?

  By talking to people (either npc's or other players).  One could make the 
converse point - what's the point of having a bunch of NPC's (in goths tavern 
for example) telling people about various places if the player will pretty much 
run accross them just by walking the countryside.

  The tower in the mountains should be hard to find.  The temple in the middle 
of the forest shouldn't be really easy either.


> The best thing you can do is shut off some areas,
> and make them accessible only for higher level players.
> That way you prevent newbies from running into
> sudden death, as well as high levels not finding
> a suitable challenge.

  This is more an issue if tough things appears directly on the world maps.  But 
even then, presuming the information is out there, that should be part of the lore.

  Eg, don't go to lake county until your level XYZ, as wyverns hang out around it.

  See NPC note above.


> Then you can also easily adjust shops, prices,
> random loot etc. according to the difficulty
> of the area.

  I personally don't see most of these much an issue.  I have no problem with 
lake county having say really high level shops (and thus great stuff), and any 
level character to wander in - they won't be able to buy the stuff.  Random loot 
  should be guarded by monsters, and the loot and monsters should be in rough 
alignment in terms of difficulty.

  I'd personally find an approach of 'only level 10?  Sorry, can't go there' 
more annoying then being able to wander into dangerous places.  Put signs/magic 
mouths on the road, eg, 'warning - wyvern crossing'.  New players will see those 
messages and say 'wyverns?  Eek, better get out of here'.  If new players are 
stupid enough to go cross country and get into someplace that kills them, that 
is their tough luck.

  There is nothing in place that prevents new players from going into dungeons 
that will get them killed.  I don't see that the outdoors needs to be completely 
sanitized so people can't get hurt.

  IF random monsters are going to be put on the terrain, then the power should 
gradually increase.  Eg, you don't have a map with kobolds, and the next map 
over have big dragons hanging out.  Have some intermediate - maybe kobolds, 
crazy men, giants, dragons, or the like.