From: Zero M. <zer...@gm...> - 2006-04-26 17:18:47
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Is it possible to restrict registered users to a specific email domain? (like .edu?) Or possible to restrict downloads to only registered users? (forcing a registry before browsing, moodle does this) These issues are coming up with school systems in regards to who can access the site... (students being able to download homework with answer keys, etc) Another semi-related issue is that some school districts I have emailed are actually claiming to hold an All Rights Reserved copyright over the educational materials that their teachers create, prohibiting them from sharing on a site. |
From: Victor S. <fou...@gm...> - 2006-04-26 18:06:50
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On 4/26/06, Zero Mass <zer...@gm...> wrote: > > Is it possible to restrict registered users to a specific email domain? > (like .edu?) not without adding code. There is an event that's fired on every form submit/verification and you could catch that and validate the email field of the profile form. > > Or possible to restrict downloads to only registered users? (forcing a > registry before browsing, moodle does this) That won't happen because it would be counter to the Creative Commons philosophy behind providing ccHost in the first place. > > These issues are coming up with school systems in regards to who can acce= ss > the site... > > (students being able to download homework with answer keys, etc) again, CC hosting is about sharing, not restricting. > > Another semi-related issue is that some school districts I have emailed a= re > actually claiming to hold an All Rights Reserved copyright over the > educational materials that their teachers create, prohibiting them from > sharing on a site. Then it's quite possible that a Creative Commons hosting tool may not be appropriate in those cases. VS |
From: Kevin D. <dri...@gm...> - 2006-04-26 18:16:17
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On 4/26/06, Zero Mass <zer...@gm...> wrote: > > Is it possible to restrict registered users to a specific email domain? > (like .edu?) > I have found that many teachers either don't use a school email address or their addresses (like mine!) don't have the appropriate .edu suffix. Can you think of another way to verify that users are teachers? The secondary questions concerns the definition of a teacher. Should homeschool parents have access? Private tutors? These issues are coming up with school systems in regards to who can access > the site... > (students being able to download homework with answer keys, etc) > A social solution might be the best here. Rather than posting a single geometry worksheet, imagine having a repository of geometry practice problems. This places several barriers in front of potential cheaters: 1) students need to find the site, 2) students need to find the particularly subject-topic repository, 3) students need to find the 10 homework problems out of dozens (hundreds?) posted. Of course, this presumes that there are problems in the repository! Another semi-related issue is that some school districts I have emailed are > actually claiming to hold an All Rights Reserved copyright over the > educational materials that their teachers create, prohibiting them > from sharing on a site. > Wow - like a software engineer? Are these public schools in the US? Are they unionized? Is it in their contracts? Has ccMixter tackled this question in terms of musicians who may be under contract to a record label? Kevin |
From: Jon P. <jo...@cr...> - 2006-04-26 22:14:36
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On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 14:15 -0400, Kevin Driscoll wrote: > > On 4/26/06, Zero Mass <zer...@gm...> wrote: > Is it possible to restrict registered users to a specific > email domain? (like .edu?) > > I have found that many teachers either don't use a school email > address or their addresses (like mine!) don't have the > appropriate .edu suffix. Can you think of another way to verify that > users are teachers? Right, I think this is a difficult thing, but I see where a teacher would want to setup a class (group of users) and then be an admin for that group. That would allow for per-teacher/class to define how content can and cannot be used, per district and teacher/class pair. > The secondary questions concerns the definition of a teacher. Should > homeschool parents have access? Private tutors? > > > > These issues are coming up with school systems in regards to > who can access the site... > > (students being able to download homework with answer keys, > etc) > > A social solution might be the best here. Rather than posting a > single geometry worksheet, imagine having a repository of geometry > practice problems. This places several barriers in front of potential > cheaters: > 1) students need to find the site, > 2) students need to find the particularly subject-topic repository, > 3) students need to find the 10 homework problems out of dozens > (hundreds?) posted. > > Of course, this presumes that there are problems in the repository! > > > Another semi-related issue is that some school districts I > have emailed are actually claiming to hold an All Rights > Reserved copyright over the educational materials that their > teachers create, prohibiting them from sharing on a site. > > Wow - like a software engineer? Are these public schools in the US? > Are they unionized? Is it in their contracts? I checked with Mia from CC and she confirmed that different districts have different types of copyright issues associated with teachers and content...pretty interesting...I would think that things created with public funds should be made pd, like our federal gov't, which, according to MIA, is one of the rare governments that releases federal publicly funding projects content under PD...there are a ton of potholes in this, right? > Has ccMixter tackled this question in terms of musicians who may be > under contract to a record label? > I don't think so...VS? > Kevin > > > -- Jon Phillips jo...@cr... cell: 510.499.0894 Software Engineer Creative Commons www.creativecommons.org |
From: Jon P. <jo...@cr...> - 2006-04-26 18:20:57
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On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 13:12 -0400, Zero Mass wrote: > Is it possible to restrict registered users to a specific email > domain? (like .edu?) Please explain this in more detail. Do you only want to let people with .edu emails to register? This could be adding pretty easily to cchost. Or, restrict only .edu domains from accessing a cchost installation? This can be done with your web server of choice (apache, etc). > Or possible to restrict downloads to only registered users? (forcing a > registry before browsing, moodle does this) This shouldn't be difficult. VS, what is the best way to allow this...we should definitely keep a FAQ about this on the cchost wiki page...wordpress does such a good job of keeping this type of solution (which might be more hack-like) in their wiki, and hopefully we can keep updating our wiki page just as successfully. > These issues are coming up with school systems in regards to who can > access the site... > > (students being able to download homework with answer keys, etc) Hmmm...seems like it would be much better to offer proper user and group permissions so that one could have multiple classes/groups with an admin of the group (teacher) and multiple users (students). That way access could be limited to groups for certain content. > Another semi-related issue is that some school districts I have > emailed are actually claiming to hold an All Rights Reserved copyright > over the educational materials that their teachers create, prohibiting > them from sharing on a site. Whoa, this is a school system issue. It needs to be made clear to the people who use this to check with their school district to see about issues regarding copyright, as this is different from country to country, state to state, and district to district. This part of the discussion really need to be had on the cc-community list and get some lawyerly love. This is so exciting though that you are taking on this project and I want to help however I can to get this project going! Jon -- Jon Phillips jo...@cr... cell: 510.499.0894 Software Engineer Creative Commons www.creativecommons.org |
From: Jon P. <jo...@cr...> - 2006-04-26 18:30:31
|
On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 11:06 -0700, Victor Stone wrote: > On 4/26/06, Zero Mass <zer...@gm...> wrote: > > > > Is it possible to restrict registered users to a specific email domain? > > (like .edu?) > > not without adding code. There is an event that's fired on every form > submit/verification and you could catch that and validate the email > field of the profile form. Maybe this is some code that you would like to contribute to the project? > > > > Or possible to restrict downloads to only registered users? (forcing a > > registry before browsing, moodle does this) > > That won't happen because it would be counter to the Creative Commons > philosophy behind providing ccHost in the first place. Actually, I think there are several places where this could be a useful feature, like for working in groups, or having some private content. Maybe you could provide a patch to support this type of situation you propose. I don't want to detract from your ideas, but want to support you if you really want to implement this. > > > > These issues are coming up with school systems in regards to who can access > > the site... > > > > (students being able to download homework with answer keys, etc) > > again, CC hosting is about sharing, not restricting. Yet again, I would say that if you want to submit a patch to support this, I think this is great. I really think the best way to deal with this is to add proper users and groups to ccHost. Please see my other email...the best way to see this type of custom feature is to submit a software patch. Think about how you can expand ccHost and make whatever you submit optionally turned on/off. > > > > Another semi-related issue is that some school districts I have emailed are > > actually claiming to hold an All Rights Reserved copyright over the > > educational materials that their teachers create, prohibiting them from > > sharing on a site. > > Then it's quite possible that a Creative Commons hosting tool may not > be appropriate in those cases. > > VS IMO I think that cchost would be a great tool for your needs. I just think there are some custom tweaks that you need, and the easiest way is to submit some patches to the codebase which can be optionally enabled, and are not hardcoded, which would help you and other projects in a similar situation. I really think the best approach to developing this ccHost solution is to implement proper user and group permissions that could be used to govern different types of content. While I work for CC and support many of the ideals, it is really up to this community to decide the direction of this community-based project through participation and code contribution. Jon -- Jon Phillips jo...@cr... cell: 510.499.0894 Software Engineer Creative Commons www.creativecommons.org |
From: Zero M. <zer...@gm...> - 2006-04-26 19:18:21
|
Thanks for the dialogue on this...I was a bit thrown off by the issue of school's claiming ownership over a teacher's lesson plan and created educational materials and realize it's really a legal issue. I joined the cc-education list and submitted my concerns there as well...is that the legal list you speak of or is there another way to get 'lawyerly love'. Back to the cchost issues...I'll look into adding a patch by comparing with what is in the Moodle code. Both of the features i discussed are an integra= l part of moodle and offer on/off features...so I don't think this should be too difficult to implement I just need to isolate the code and make some minor adjustments. When submitting a patch what is proper procedure for doing so? My instinct is to make minor code adjustments to existing files which reference any complete features as separate files... Anyway once I isolate the moodle code I may pick your brain on where/how yo= u think the best way to implement would be. Thanks again, Sean On 4/26/06, Jon Phillips <jo...@cr...> wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 11:06 -0700, Victor Stone wrote: > > On 4/26/06, Zero Mass <zer...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > > Is it possible to restrict registered users to a specific email > domain? > > > (like .edu?) > > > > not without adding code. There is an event that's fired on every form > > submit/verification and you could catch that and validate the email > > field of the profile form. > > Maybe this is some code that you would like to contribute to the > project? > > > > > > > Or possible to restrict downloads to only registered users? (forcing = a > > > registry before browsing, moodle does this) > > > > That won't happen because it would be counter to the Creative Commons > > philosophy behind providing ccHost in the first place. > > Actually, I think there are several places where this could be a useful > feature, like for working in groups, or having some private content. > Maybe you could provide a patch to support this type of situation you > propose. I don't want to detract from your ideas, but want to support > you if you really want to implement this. > > > > > > > These issues are coming up with school systems in regards to who can > access > > > the site... > > > > > > (students being able to download homework with answer keys, etc) > > > > again, CC hosting is about sharing, not restricting. > > Yet again, I would say that if you want to submit a patch to support > this, I think this is great. I really think the best way to deal with > this is to add proper users and groups to ccHost. Please see my other > email...the best way to see this type of custom feature is to submit a > software patch. Think about how you can expand ccHost and make whatever > you submit optionally turned on/off. > > > > > > > Another semi-related issue is that some school districts I have > emailed are > > > actually claiming to hold an All Rights Reserved copyright over the > > > educational materials that their teachers create, prohibiting them > from > > > sharing on a site. > > > > Then it's quite possible that a Creative Commons hosting tool may not > > be appropriate in those cases. > > > > VS > > IMO I think that cchost would be a great tool for your needs. I just > think there are some custom tweaks that you need, and the easiest way is > to submit some patches to the codebase which can be optionally enabled, > and are not hardcoded, which would help you and other projects in a > similar situation. > > I really think the best approach to developing this ccHost solution is > to implement proper user and group permissions that could be used to > govern different types of content. > > While I work for CC and support many of the ideals, it is really up to > this community to decide the direction of this community-based project > through participation and code contribution. > > Jon > > -- > Jon Phillips > jo...@cr... > cell: 510.499.0894 > > Software Engineer > Creative Commons > www.creativecommons.org > > |
From: Victor S. <fou...@gm...> - 2006-04-26 19:36:52
|
On 4/26/06, Zero Mass <zer...@gm...> wrote: > Thanks for the dialogue on this...I was a bit thrown off by the issue of > school's claiming ownership over a teacher's lesson plan and created > educational materials and realize it's really a legal issue. I joined the > cc-education list and submitted my concerns there as well...is that the > legal list you speak of or is there another way to get 'lawyerly love'. yea, probably; certainly not here ;) > Back to the cchost issues...I'll look into adding a patch by comparing wi= th > what is in the Moodle code. Both of the features i discussed are an integ= ral > part of moodle and offer on/off features...so I don't think this should b= e > too difficult to implement I just need to isolate the code and make some > minor adjustments. Sorry, I'm being slow: what's a moodle? > When submitting a patch what is proper procedure for doing so? emailing to me is fine (for now) but as I implied yesterday I can't really look at it until I'm done with the phpdoc sweep through because that's going to be a checkin of at least 100 files that I'll need to verify on several platforms (including ccMixter) -- so we're probably looking at next week. VS |
From: Jon P. <jo...@cr...> - 2006-04-26 21:54:32
|
On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 14:49 -0400, Zero Mass wrote: > Thanks for the dialogue on this...I was a bit thrown off by the issue > of school's claiming ownership over a teacher's lesson plan and > created educational materials and realize it's really a legal issue. I > joined the cc-education list and submitted my concerns there as > well...is that the legal list you speak of or is there another way to > get 'lawyerly love'. Actually, the best is to join cc-community, as it is the highest traffic and mia garlick, cc gen. counsel is now aware of your issue (as I just turned to her in office and discussed it with her)... ;) > Back to the cchost issues...I'll look into adding a patch by comparing > with what is in the Moodle code. Both of the features i discussed are > an integral part of moodle and offer on/off features...so I don't > think this should be too difficult to implement I just need to isolate > the code and make some minor adjustments. > > When submitting a patch what is proper procedure for doing so? I just created a page about submitting a patch: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/HOWTO_Patch > My instinct is to make minor code adjustments to existing files which > reference any complete features as separate files... Ok, just remember to make additions optional features that people can turn on and off. That is probably the best way to change the code...please test your code as well! > Anyway once I isolate the moodle code I may pick your brain on > where/how you think the best way to implement would be. > > Thanks again, > > Sean Great! Jon > On 4/26/06, Jon Phillips <jo...@cr...> wrote: > On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 11:06 -0700, Victor Stone wrote: > > On 4/26/06, Zero Mass <zer...@gm...> wrote: > > > > > > Is it possible to restrict registered users to a specific > email domain? > > > (like .edu?) > > > > not without adding code. There is an event that's fired on > every form > > submit/verification and you could catch that and validate > the email > > field of the profile form. > > Maybe this is some code that you would like to contribute to > the > project? > > > > > > > Or possible to restrict downloads to only registered > users? (forcing a > > > registry before browsing, moodle does this) > > > > That won't happen because it would be counter to the > Creative Commons > > philosophy behind providing ccHost in the first place. > > Actually, I think there are several places where this could be > a useful > feature, like for working in groups, or having some private > content. > Maybe you could provide a patch to support this type of > situation you > propose. I don't want to detract from your ideas, but want to > support > you if you really want to implement this. > > > > > > > These issues are coming up with school systems in regards > to who can access > > > the site... > > > > > > (students being able to download homework with answer > keys, etc) > > > > again, CC hosting is about sharing, not restricting. > > Yet again, I would say that if you want to submit a patch to > support > this, I think this is great. I really think the best way to > deal with > this is to add proper users and groups to ccHost. Please see > my other > email...the best way to see this type of custom feature is to > submit a > software patch. Think about how you can expand ccHost and make > whatever > you submit optionally turned on/off. > > > > > > > Another semi-related issue is that some school districts I > have emailed are > > > actually claiming to hold an All Rights Reserved copyright > over the > > > educational materials that their teachers create, > prohibiting them from > > > sharing on a site. > > > > Then it's quite possible that a Creative Commons hosting > tool may not > > be appropriate in those cases. > > > > VS > > IMO I think that cchost would be a great tool for your needs. > I just > think there are some custom tweaks that you need, and the > easiest way is > to submit some patches to the codebase which can be optionally > enabled, > and are not hardcoded, which would help you and other projects > in a > similar situation. > > I really think the best approach to developing this ccHost > solution is > to implement proper user and group permissions that could be > used to > govern different types of content. > > While I work for CC and support many of the ideals, it is > really up to > this community to decide the direction of this community-based > project > through participation and code contribution. > > Jon > > -- > Jon Phillips > jo...@cr... > cell: 510.499.0894 > > Software Engineer > Creative Commons > www.creativecommons.org > > -- Jon Phillips jo...@cr... cell: 510.499.0894 Software Engineer Creative Commons www.creativecommons.org |
From: Victor S. <fou...@gm...> - 2006-04-26 19:33:20
|
On 4/26/06, Jon Phillips <jo...@cr...> wrote: > > > Or possible to restrict downloads to only registered users? (forcing = a > > > registry before browsing, moodle does this) > > > > That won't happen because it would be counter to the Creative Commons > > philosophy behind providing ccHost in the first place. > > Actually, I think there are several places where this could be a useful > feature, like for working in groups, or having some private content. um, well, I'm just relaying some pretty strong feelings from the folks who sponsor this project about the reason it exists: to spread and promote Creative Commons content which I can totally respect - it's why we don't ship with an 'all rights reserved' or 'public domain' license. If the purpose of ccHost has changed I can respect that too but it means a fundamental shift in priorities. Can the system be tweaked to be more restrictive? Um, yea, probably with less than three lines of code in some cases -- although a full blown user group module is a non-trivial change that would affect the code is 100's of places and I would really want major justification for this. VS |
From: Jon P. <jo...@cr...> - 2006-04-26 19:55:35
|
On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 12:33 -0700, Victor Stone wrote: > On 4/26/06, Jon Phillips <jo...@cr...> wrote: > > > > Or possible to restrict downloads to only registered users? (forcing a > > > > registry before browsing, moodle does this) > > > > > > That won't happen because it would be counter to the Creative Commons > > > philosophy behind providing ccHost in the first place. > > > > Actually, I think there are several places where this could be a useful > > feature, like for working in groups, or having some private content. > > um, well, I'm just relaying some pretty strong feelings from the folks > who sponsor this project about the reason it exists: to spread and > promote Creative Commons content which I can totally respect - it's > why we don't ship with an 'all rights reserved' or 'public domain' > license. If the purpose of ccHost has changed I can respect that too > but it means a fundamental shift in priorities. I'm not relaying CC's priorities here, but saying that the source code is open, so that if anyone wants specific features not found, then anyone can submit a patch for added functionality. This is great, because it allows for everyone to direct direction and hopefully increase the number of ccHost installations. That is all that I'm saying. Jon -- Jon Phillips jo...@cr... cell: 510.499.0894 Software Engineer Creative Commons www.creativecommons.org |
From: Mike L. <ml...@cr...> - 2006-04-26 19:46:55
|
On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 12:33 -0700, Victor Stone wrote: > um, well, I'm just relaying some pretty strong feelings from the folks > who sponsor this project about the reason it exists: to spread and > promote Creative Commons content which I can totally respect - it's > why we don't ship with an 'all rights reserved' or 'public domain' > license. If the purpose of ccHost has changed I can respect that too > but it means a fundamental shift in priorities. Sorry for adding irrelevancy, but 'public domain' is fully supported by Creative Commons. We have the PD dedication http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ and PD content can be incorporated into any CC licensed work. PD probably should be included in ccHost as there's lots of PD content out there suitable for remixing and CC supports it. ... I haven't followed this discussion closely but it seems that restricting who can participate in a given community is orthogonal to licensing. If someone wants to add a hack that restricts registrations to .edu addresses, fine, but I don't see any place for that in the mainline code. As I think Victor said there's an events mechanism that would allow a site to cleanly add that hack locally. -- Mike Linksvayer http://creativecommons.org/about/people#21 |
From: Zero M. <zer...@gm...> - 2006-04-26 20:53:38
|
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From: Jon P. <jo...@cr...> - 2006-04-26 20:07:33
|
On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 12:46 -0700, Mike Linksvayer wrote: > On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 12:33 -0700, Victor Stone wrote: > > um, well, I'm just relaying some pretty strong feelings from the folks > > who sponsor this project about the reason it exists: to spread and > > promote Creative Commons content which I can totally respect - it's > > why we don't ship with an 'all rights reserved' or 'public domain' > > license. If the purpose of ccHost has changed I can respect that too > > but it means a fundamental shift in priorities. > > Sorry for adding irrelevancy, but 'public domain' is fully supported by > Creative Commons. We have the PD dedication > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ and PD content can be > incorporated into any CC licensed work. > > PD probably should be included in ccHost as there's lots of PD content > out there suitable for remixing and CC supports it. Totally cchost supports this currently...its used by Open Clip Art Library. > ... > > I haven't followed this discussion closely but it seems that restricting > who can participate in a given community is orthogonal to licensing. If > someone wants to add a hack that restricts registrations to .edu > addresses, fine, but I don't see any place for that in the mainline > code. As I think Victor said there's an events mechanism that would > allow a site to cleanly add that hack locally. totally...would just be good to document this on the wiki if anyone undertakes this: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/cchost Jon -- Jon Phillips jo...@cr... cell: 510.499.0894 Software Engineer Creative Commons www.creativecommons.org |
From: Victor S. <fou...@gm...> - 2006-04-26 20:32:36
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> On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 12:46 -0700, Mike Linksvayer wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 12:33 -0700, Victor Stone wrote: > > > um, well, I'm just relaying some pretty strong feelings from the folk= s > > > who sponsor this project about the reason it exists: to spread and > > > promote Creative Commons content which I can totally respect - it's > > > why we don't ship with an 'all rights reserved' or 'public domain' > > > license. If the purpose of ccHost has changed I can respect that too > > > but it means a fundamental shift in priorities. > > > > Sorry for adding irrelevancy, but 'public domain' is fully supported by > > Creative Commons. We have the PD dedication > > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/ and PD content can be > > incorporated into any CC licensed work. hey, I want to be as clear as I can because I understand sometimes I have a tonal thing that doesn't convey my full intention: The LAST thing I want to do is discourage patches, I'm praying on my knees nobody gets that impression. I mispoke about PD support because in fact, well, I added it recently *despite* being told by CC staff not to ;) For ARR the thing to do is to enable admins to *fully* configure, including downloading the latest lics from the CC site and adding new customized licenses. We do this add-hoc now in the form of contest rules (which are, in effect licenses) but it's not really integrated with cchost. That module would be very welcome indeed. I would LOVE a email mask add-on, I think that would be a great addition. If someone wants to create a module that restricts downloads to registered users only I can certainly take a look at it but I think the implications are pretty large; it changes the fundamental focus of ccHost from being a tool for spreading content to just another cms. But hey, if the folks writing the checks are cool with it then again, I respect that totally and I'm happy to adjust priorities. Adding user groups still scares me ;) and I still don't know what a moodle is (do I?) Hopefully that clears things up... VS |