Thread: RE: [Boa Constr] Boa, MVC, documentation and random bable
Status: Beta
Brought to you by:
riaan
From: Josh R. <jo...@fu...> - 2000-05-09 21:18:21
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Yanko, Riaan etc.... My basic premise for wanting some IDE like features is that with some minimal work Boa could supplant PythonWin as my primary ide/RAD/Case ;)/(Pick a random acronym) tool. Once I can work full time in Boa many other things become easier because you are 'eating your dog food'. Lets be clear about this... I am not just sending my wishlist to Riaan. I am offering to contribute code. Regards Josh |
From: Yanko, C. (GSP) <Ya...@gs...> - 2000-05-10 10:24:04
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XP, that's great! I have spent the last few weeks looking that over as we may adopt here at Gerber. I didn't see where you implement first, I thought they started with 'User stories' and then CRC. I think XP and Python are a great fit. And please excuse my Outlook client as this email will now be forever bastardized by it :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: Riaan Booysen [SMTP:riaan@e.co.za] > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4:53 AM > To: Yanko, Curtis (GSP); Boa list > Subject: Re: [Boa Constr] Boa, MVC, documentation and random bable > > Hi Yanko, > > "Yanko, Curtis (GSP)" wrote: > > > > I'm hearing lots of great things but let me pipe up on a few items. > > > > What are the 'requirements' for the 1.0 release? > > * All components supported > * Collection editor for list properties > * Multiple selection in the Frame Designer > * Cut/Copy/Paste in the Frame Designer > * Built in Sizer/Alignment support > * A few more property editor types > > > > > Do you have any high level design documentation for Boa? > > Is the above not detailed enough? :) > I thought I had seen these once but couldn't remember them. I wasn't suggesting you didn't have any, just wanted to know for myself. > > > > Don't you think it is too easy to get lost in the details of 'which > features > > do we want' when the focus should be on getting a working product to > market, > > albeit with a minimal set of features. > > It is, and it's a fine line to walk. > I regularly do the 'fun' details if I get stumped on the tricky stuff. > > > > > I, for one, would be happy with a usable IDE that allows me to do my GUI > > building. Code completion and such would be nice but it is the GUI > builder > > that sets Boa apart. (bear with me as I drift off topic for a minute). > > The key here is 'usable IDE'. The current version out there at the > moment is a far cry from a useful IDE even if the GUI building was > complete. Another thing to take note of is that Boa is being > developed in Boa, so if I implement some nifty time saving feature > (like tooltips so I don't have to scroll around and find the > definition) Boa gets developed quicker. It's a gain for me, Boa and > the users. > All that said, I am focusing on core issues and old bugs at the moment. > > > > > ...I feel that there is something fundementally wrong with the way we > teach > > programming languages and it shows up in our projects. We teach them > like > > the english language, learning the vocabulary and syntax first. More > > abstractly, we teach the very small and build to the larger constructs. > > Programming however, needs to be taught in reverse almost. Analysis > should > > be the first thing we teach! What is it we need? What does it need to > do? > > What language it is implemented in isn't even up for consideration yet! > Once > > we know, in detail, what we want, we can set about designing it. Do you > see > > where I'm going with this?.. > > I used to believe in this principal quite strongly but in practice it > is very difficult to first have the perfect design and then have the > implementation integrate flawlessly with the rest of the system. > Have you heard of Extreme Programming? I'm basically following a mild > variant of it. The crux of it is that you implement first and then > design. (You also have to have extensive test cases which is the bit > I skip because it's so tricky to test GUIs, I basically test with the > mouse) I know this implement first design second sounds perverse but > it works for me. The analysis you speak about can more effectively > be done once you've already hacked out some solution and in the > process familiarised yourself better with the problem AND it's > integration with the rest of the system. Then you refactor the > hacks into something that looks designed :) > This is great news, yet another synergy in my life which makes it a little simpler. > > > > ...back to reality. Ok... Riaan, what little time I've been able to look > at > > your code. I've been very impressed. I'm personaly struggling with MVC > but > > I'll get over it. I would like to see Boa become not only a great > IDE/GUI > > builder but a model of project developement as well. So... what are the > > projects goals? What are the requirements and which ones are the most > > important. What task are needed to accomplish them and who will do them. > > > Apart from the above mentioned milestones, nothing has been > formalised yet. > > > I think I can help with documentation and some of the coding but I've > been > > in a hold pattern. This is a project that is near and dear to my heart > since > > I have settled on Python as my language of choice and wxPython as my GUI > > library of choice. > > I applaud your choices! > > > > > I fear this has become more bable than anything but it is my way of > standing > > up and being counted here. > > You're counted now and will be drafted :) > > -- > Riaan >>> a='a=%s;a%%`a`';a%`a` > ___________________________________________________ > Boa Constructor - RAD GUI building IDE for wxPython > http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net |
From: Yanko, C. (GSP) <Ya...@gs...> - 2000-05-10 10:26:44
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> -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Robb [SMTP:jo...@fu...] > Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 5:16 PM > To: 'Yanko, Curtis (GSP)'; Boa list > Subject: RE: [Boa Constr] Boa, MVC, documentation and random bable > > Yanko, Riaan etc.... > > My basic premise for wanting some IDE like features is that with some > minimal work Boa could supplant PythonWin as my primary ide/RAD/Case > ;)/(Pick a random acronym) tool. Once I can work full time in Boa many > other > things become easier because you are 'eating your dog food'. > I hear you on this one. I am dying for the day I can do all of my Python work in Boa (not that I'm doing much Python work mind you :-) > Lets be clear about this... I am not just sending my wishlist to Riaan. I > am > offering to contribute code. > > > Regards > > Josh |
From: Josh R. <jo...@fu...> - 2000-05-10 11:53:21
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Riaan, I applaud your focus on delivering a code base. This is an important aim because without an existing (even if its not perfect) bit of code to work on things can (and in my experience have) stall quickly. This will usually digresses into arguments about architecture and implementation which gets no more features/code added but give lots of people a change to express opinions. :) so..... You go BOY!!! If there are any useful packages of work that you can hand out (even <gasp> testing/doco) while we are waiting for a point release which can be developed in a more collaborative fashion please give them to me... :). |
From: Riaan B. <riaan@e.co.za> - 2000-05-11 17:52:40
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Hi Josh, Josh Robb wrote: > > Yanko, Riaan etc.... > > My basic premise for wanting some IDE like features is that with some > minimal work Boa could supplant PythonWin as my primary ide/RAD/Case > ;)/(Pick a random acronym) tool. Once I can work full time in Boa many other > things become easier because you are 'eating your dog food'. It's given me indigestion one or twice but it has matured a bit and syntax highlighting really adds nice flavour to the mix. > Lets be clear about this... I am not just sending my wishlist to Riaan. I am > offering to contribute code. Great! -- Riaan >>> a='a=%s;a%%`a`';a%`a` ___________________________________________________ Boa Constructor - RAD GUI building IDE for wxPython http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net |