zookeeper-user — Mailing list for users of ZooKeeper

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Benjamin R. <br...@ya...>]

On Saturday 08 December 2007, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
> I've worked on many Ant projects and it falls down when a project gets
> sophisticated. IMO, ZooKeeper is on the precipice of build complexity;
> you already have your own IDL compiler.  As you move on you want to
> focus on the code, not the build system.  From experience I know that
> Ant is brittle.
>

Perhaps this is the disconnect. The IDL compiler is for jute, which is part of 
Hadoop and was modified for a C binding. We are actually hoping to get rid of 
it and move to something like Thrift. (Although, Thrift does not have a C 
binding...)

Our build ends up being extremely simple. Even if we were to break the client 
and server in Java into two jars, it's really just a simple ant script.

ben

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Alan D. C. <li...@to...>]

I hope that my tone was not too strong.  Here are some of the things I  
had hoped for this project:

- Java binding
- C binding
- DotNet binding
- PAXOS as a standalone library - this would be crazy popular IMO
- use Mina
- decoupled configuration mechanisms - not everyone thinks alike here  
so loosely coupling config is a good idea

The Ant build script would  not be very pretty where the Maven POMs  
would be crazy simple.  It would be simple enough for other projects  
to incorporate our bindings into their servers.  This means that  
ZooKeeper would not really be an island unto itself but, if properly  
architected, would be providing a variety of goodies to the larger  
open source community.


Regards,
Alan

On Dec 8, 2007, at 10:21 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

> There's no point in reading the entire book.  Just the first few
> chapters which are an easy read.  Skim the chapter titles and read
> what looks interesting to you afterward.
>
> I've listed below some of the reasons why one would want to move to
> maven.   Ant is a good build system and is also easy to learn.
> However, you would be surprised to see how creative people can get
> with it.  I have gone through many, many, Ant build systems and I can
> say that none of them are the same.  It is always a frustrating
> experience trying to grok yet another Ant setup; all maven setups are
> the same because of the convention over configuration paradigm.
>
> I've worked on many Ant projects and it falls down when a project gets
> sophisticated. IMO, ZooKeeper is on the precipice of build complexity;
> you already have your own IDL compiler.  As you move on you want to
> focus on the code, not the build system.  From experience I know that
> Ant is brittle.
>
> Maybe your future plans for ZooKeeper are simple.  Maybe you intend to
> just deliver a single monolithic jar to your users and force them to
> use a configuration system of your own design.  If that's the case
> then you are right to stay with Ant.
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Andrew Kornev wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Alan! Thanks for the Maven books links!
>>
>> Maven does have a number of advantages over Ant (and for people like
>> us who
>> enjoy life long learning the indisputable advantage of Maven is of
>> course
>> the time it's going to take to actually learn it :-)
>>
>> However, for a simple project like zookeeper with no external
>> dependencies
>> save for the ubiquitous junit, I wonder if switching to Maven would
>> add any
>> value other than having the project "mavenized"?
>>
>> Please don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing that Ant is better than
>> Maven,
>> nor do I have any specific objections to moving to Maven. I'm trying
>> to get
>> a better idea how much a happier man I will be with Maven than I
>> currently
>> am with Ant :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: zoo...@li... [mailto:zookeeper-user-
>>> bo...@li...] On Behalf Of Alan D. Cabrera
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:45 AM
>>> To: zoo...@li...
>>> Subject: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven
>>>
>>> I'd like to suggest moving to Maven.  It has a number of advantages
>>> over Ant.  Some of my favorites:
>>>
>>> - easier for external projects to use ZooKeeper (via maven
>>> repositories)
>>> - no need to checkin jars into the SVN repository
>>> - easy plugins to build IntelliJ and Eclipse projects
>>> - easy plugins to build OSGi bundles
>>> - future plugins to deploy OSGi bundles to OBRs
>>>
>>> Maven relies on "convention over configuration".  This means  that
>>> ZooKeeper will be organized along the same lines as most other Open
>>> Source projects.  This makes it easier for other communities to
>>> understand how the ZooKeeper project is constructed.  To be sure Ant
>>> has wide appeal but I have to say, from my experience with Geronimo,
>>> that you would be surprised at all the different ways Ant build
>>> projects can be built.
>>>
>>> I am happy to convert this project to use Maven.  It will require
>>> some significant restructuring.  I recommend that I do the work in a
>>> sandbox for the team to review.  Using patches might prove to be
>>> error prone in this particular case.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White
>>> Paper
>>> from Novell.  From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going
>>> mainstream.  Let it simplify your IT future.
>>> http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Zookeeper-user mailing list
>>> Zoo...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zookeeper-user
>>
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> _______________________________________________
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> Zoo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zookeeper-user
>

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Alan D. C. <li...@to...>]

There's no point in reading the entire book.  Just the first few  
chapters which are an easy read.  Skim the chapter titles and read  
what looks interesting to you afterward.

I've listed below some of the reasons why one would want to move to  
maven.   Ant is a good build system and is also easy to learn.   
However, you would be surprised to see how creative people can get  
with it.  I have gone through many, many, Ant build systems and I can  
say that none of them are the same.  It is always a frustrating  
experience trying to grok yet another Ant setup; all maven setups are  
the same because of the convention over configuration paradigm.

I've worked on many Ant projects and it falls down when a project gets  
sophisticated. IMO, ZooKeeper is on the precipice of build complexity;  
you already have your own IDL compiler.  As you move on you want to  
focus on the code, not the build system.  From experience I know that  
Ant is brittle.

Maybe your future plans for ZooKeeper are simple.  Maybe you intend to  
just deliver a single monolithic jar to your users and force them to  
use a configuration system of your own design.  If that's the case  
then you are right to stay with Ant.


Regards,
Alan


On Dec 7, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Andrew Kornev wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Alan! Thanks for the Maven books links!
>
> Maven does have a number of advantages over Ant (and for people like  
> us who
> enjoy life long learning the indisputable advantage of Maven is of  
> course
> the time it's going to take to actually learn it :-)
>
> However, for a simple project like zookeeper with no external  
> dependencies
> save for the ubiquitous junit, I wonder if switching to Maven would  
> add any
> value other than having the project "mavenized"?
>
> Please don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing that Ant is better than  
> Maven,
> nor do I have any specific objections to moving to Maven. I'm trying  
> to get
> a better idea how much a happier man I will be with Maven than I  
> currently
> am with Ant :-)
>
> Regards,
> Andrew
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: zoo...@li... [mailto:zookeeper-user-
>> bo...@li...] On Behalf Of Alan D. Cabrera
>> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:45 AM
>> To: zoo...@li...
>> Subject: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven
>>
>> I'd like to suggest moving to Maven.  It has a number of advantages
>> over Ant.  Some of my favorites:
>>
>> - easier for external projects to use ZooKeeper (via maven  
>> repositories)
>> - no need to checkin jars into the SVN repository
>> - easy plugins to build IntelliJ and Eclipse projects
>> - easy plugins to build OSGi bundles
>> - future plugins to deploy OSGi bundles to OBRs
>>
>> Maven relies on "convention over configuration".  This means  that
>> ZooKeeper will be organized along the same lines as most other Open
>> Source projects.  This makes it easier for other communities to
>> understand how the ZooKeeper project is constructed.  To be sure Ant
>> has wide appeal but I have to say, from my experience with Geronimo,
>> that you would be surprised at all the different ways Ant build
>> projects can be built.
>>
>> I am happy to convert this project to use Maven.  It will require
>> some significant restructuring.  I recommend that I do the work in a
>> sandbox for the team to review.  Using patches might prove to be
>> error prone in this particular case.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White  
>> Paper
>> from Novell.  From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going
>> mainstream.  Let it simplify your IT future.
>> http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4
>> _______________________________________________
>> Zookeeper-user mailing list
>> Zoo...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zookeeper-user
>
>

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Mahadev K. <ma...@ya...>]

Well I am reflecting the same opinion as Ben and Andrew. I have worked
on Hadoop and it uses ant. I have had no problems with ant and I really
liked it. The good thing about ant was that it was really really easy to
use and learn. Very simple build infrastructure that provides us with
all we need. Any comments are welcome and if others think that maven
provides us with a bigger advantage for a use case that's common, then I
am all for it.

Regards
Mahadev

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zoo...@li...
[mailto:zookeeper-user-
> bo...@li...] On Behalf Of Benjamin Reed
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 2:37 PM
> To: zoo...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven
>=20
> On Friday 07 December 2007, Andrew Kornev wrote:
> > Please don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing that Ant is better than
> Maven,
> > nor do I have any specific objections to moving to Maven. I'm trying
to
> get
> > a better idea how much a happier man I will be with Maven than I
> currently
> > am with Ant :-)
>=20
> I'm in the same boat as Andrew. The overall philosophy seems good, but
I
> have
> a feeling that I'm missing big advantage. You seemed to hint that
Maven
> facilitates integration into repositories.
>=20
> ben
>=20
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> _______________________________________________
> Zookeeper-user mailing list
> Zoo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zookeeper-user

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Benjamin R. <br...@ya...>]

On Friday 07 December 2007, Andrew Kornev wrote:
> Please don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing that Ant is better than Maven,
> nor do I have any specific objections to moving to Maven. I'm trying to get
> a better idea how much a happier man I will be with Maven than I currently
> am with Ant :-)

I'm in the same boat as Andrew. The overall philosophy seems good, but I have 
a feeling that I'm missing big advantage. You seemed to hint that Maven 
facilitates integration into repositories.

ben

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Andrew K. <ak...@ya...>]

Hello,

Alan! Thanks for the Maven books links!

Maven does have a number of advantages over Ant (and for people like us who
enjoy life long learning the indisputable advantage of Maven is of course
the time it's going to take to actually learn it :-)

However, for a simple project like zookeeper with no external dependencies
save for the ubiquitous junit, I wonder if switching to Maven would add any
value other than having the project "mavenized"? 

Please don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing that Ant is better than Maven,
nor do I have any specific objections to moving to Maven. I'm trying to get
a better idea how much a happier man I will be with Maven than I currently
am with Ant :-)

Regards,
Andrew


> -----Original Message-----
> From: zoo...@li... [mailto:zookeeper-user-
> bo...@li...] On Behalf Of Alan D. Cabrera
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:45 AM
> To: zoo...@li...
> Subject: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven
> 
> I'd like to suggest moving to Maven.  It has a number of advantages
> over Ant.  Some of my favorites:
> 
> - easier for external projects to use ZooKeeper (via maven repositories)
> - no need to checkin jars into the SVN repository
> - easy plugins to build IntelliJ and Eclipse projects
> - easy plugins to build OSGi bundles
> - future plugins to deploy OSGi bundles to OBRs
> 
> Maven relies on "convention over configuration".  This means  that
> ZooKeeper will be organized along the same lines as most other Open
> Source projects.  This makes it easier for other communities to
> understand how the ZooKeeper project is constructed.  To be sure Ant
> has wide appeal but I have to say, from my experience with Geronimo,
> that you would be surprised at all the different ways Ant build
> projects can be built.
> 
> I am happy to convert this project to use Maven.  It will require
> some significant restructuring.  I recommend that I do the work in a
> sandbox for the team to review.  Using patches might prove to be
> error prone in this particular case.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Alan
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper
> from Novell.  From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going
> mainstream.  Let it simplify your IT future.
> http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4
> _______________________________________________
> Zookeeper-user mailing list
> Zoo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zookeeper-user

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Alan D. C. <li...@to...>]

On Dec 6, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Benjamin Reed wrote:

>> I am happy to convert this project to use Maven.  It will require
>> some significant restructuring.
>
> Can you comment a bit more on what kind of restructuring you are  
> talking
> about?


We would split the project into two modules.  One would be the core  
server and the other the C client library.  Maybe we could convert  
the Jute compiler to be a maven plugin.  Each module needs to have  
its code and unit tests organized in a certain way; this is the  
convention over configuration aspect that I mentioned before.

We should probably create a ZooKeeper maven repository so that people  
could pull in the project's snapshot builds.


Regards,
Alan

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Alan D. C. <li...@to...>]

Check out these two great resources:

Better builds with Maven
http://www.devzuz.com/web/guest/products/resources

  and

Maven: the definitive guide
http://www.sonatype.com/book/index.html

Ant and Maven can coexist in that Maven can execute Ant tasks.   
Usually, one finds that Maven can cover everything and it's rare that  
one needs to invoke Ant.  When this happens it's usually an Ant task  
that hasn't been converted to a Maven plugin.  In those cases those  
are exotic Ant tasks.


Regards,
Alan

On Dec 6, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Andrew Kornev wrote:

> Hi Alan,
>
> I'm not familiar with Maven (and it is my current priority to  
> educate myself
> in that regard). Can ant and maven coexist? Or does the use of one  
> preclude
> the use of another?
>
> As open as I am to any cool build management system, I'd really  
> love to be
> able to use ant now and then.
>
> Thanks
> Andrew
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: zoo...@li...  
>> [mailto:zookeeper-user-
>> bo...@li...] On Behalf Of Alan D. Cabrera
>> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:45 AM
>> To: zoo...@li...
>> Subject: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven
>>
>> I'd like to suggest moving to Maven.  It has a number of advantages
>> over Ant.  Some of my favorites:
>>
>> - easier for external projects to use ZooKeeper (via maven  
>> repositories)
>> - no need to checkin jars into the SVN repository
>> - easy plugins to build IntelliJ and Eclipse projects
>> - easy plugins to build OSGi bundles
>> - future plugins to deploy OSGi bundles to OBRs
>>
>> Maven relies on "convention over configuration".  This means  that
>> ZooKeeper will be organized along the same lines as most other Open
>> Source projects.  This makes it easier for other communities to
>> understand how the ZooKeeper project is constructed.  To be sure Ant
>> has wide appeal but I have to say, from my experience with Geronimo,
>> that you would be surprised at all the different ways Ant build
>> projects can be built.
>>
>> I am happy to convert this project to use Maven.  It will require
>> some significant restructuring.  I recommend that I do the work in a
>> sandbox for the team to review.  Using patches might prove to be
>> error prone in this particular case.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ----
>> SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White  
>> Paper
>> from Novell.  From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going
>> mainstream.  Let it simplify your IT future.
>> http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4
>> _______________________________________________
>> Zookeeper-user mailing list
>> Zoo...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zookeeper-user
>
>

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Andrew K. <ak...@ya...>]

Hi Alan,

I'm not familiar with Maven (and it is my current priority to educate myself
in that regard). Can ant and maven coexist? Or does the use of one preclude
the use of another?

As open as I am to any cool build management system, I'd really love to be
able to use ant now and then.

Thanks
Andrew 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: zoo...@li... [mailto:zookeeper-user-
> bo...@li...] On Behalf Of Alan D. Cabrera
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:45 AM
> To: zoo...@li...
> Subject: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven
> 
> I'd like to suggest moving to Maven.  It has a number of advantages
> over Ant.  Some of my favorites:
> 
> - easier for external projects to use ZooKeeper (via maven repositories)
> - no need to checkin jars into the SVN repository
> - easy plugins to build IntelliJ and Eclipse projects
> - easy plugins to build OSGi bundles
> - future plugins to deploy OSGi bundles to OBRs
> 
> Maven relies on "convention over configuration".  This means  that
> ZooKeeper will be organized along the same lines as most other Open
> Source projects.  This makes it easier for other communities to
> understand how the ZooKeeper project is constructed.  To be sure Ant
> has wide appeal but I have to say, from my experience with Geronimo,
> that you would be surprised at all the different ways Ant build
> projects can be built.
> 
> I am happy to convert this project to use Maven.  It will require
> some significant restructuring.  I recommend that I do the work in a
> sandbox for the team to review.  Using patches might prove to be
> error prone in this particular case.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Alan
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper
> from Novell.  From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going
> mainstream.  Let it simplify your IT future.
> http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4
> _______________________________________________
> Zookeeper-user mailing list
> Zoo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zookeeper-user

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Benjamin R. <br...@ya...>]

> I am happy to convert this project to use Maven.  It will require
> some significant restructuring. 

Can you comment a bit more on what kind of restructuring you are talking 
about?

thanx
ben

[Zookeeper-user] Moving to maven

[Alan D. C. <li...@to...>]

I'd like to suggest moving to Maven.  It has a number of advantages  
over Ant.  Some of my favorites:

- easier for external projects to use ZooKeeper (via maven repositories)
- no need to checkin jars into the SVN repository
- easy plugins to build IntelliJ and Eclipse projects
- easy plugins to build OSGi bundles
- future plugins to deploy OSGi bundles to OBRs

Maven relies on "convention over configuration".  This means  that  
ZooKeeper will be organized along the same lines as most other Open  
Source projects.  This makes it easier for other communities to  
understand how the ZooKeeper project is constructed.  To be sure Ant  
has wide appeal but I have to say, from my experience with Geronimo,  
that you would be surprised at all the different ways Ant build  
projects can be built.

I am happy to convert this project to use Maven.  It will require  
some significant restructuring.  I recommend that I do the work in a  
sandbox for the team to review.  Using patches might prove to be  
error prone in this particular case.


Regards,
Alan

Re: [Zookeeper-user] Roadmap for Zookeeper?

[Benjamin R. <br...@ya...>]

Our near term plans are really just to stabilize things and make the service more robust. The new functionality is a sync() operator for doing timely reads, but that is about it. We are focusing on test cases and stability.

ZooKeeper isn't really connected to Hadoop. There has been talk about using Hadoop to build a more reliable Namenode; we also did a prototype of HOD using ZooKeeper, but our main focus is the service itself. Our early users have nothing to do with Hadoop and are using it for more online applications that require coordination.

ben

----- Original Message ----
From: Chad Walters <ch...@po...>
To: "zoo...@li..." <zoo...@li...>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2007 2:33:25 AM
Subject: [Zookeeper-user] Roadmap for Zookeeper?


I see some updates took place last week but didn't see an announcement
 here.

Any plans to publicize the roadmap for Zookeeper? I am interested in
 knowing
where the developers think Zookeeper is headed, especially with regards
 to
integration with Hadoop, and at what pace.

Chad Walters
Search Architect
Powerset Inc.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper
from Novell.  From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going
mainstream.  Let it simplify your IT future.
http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4
_______________________________________________
Zookeeper-user mailing list
Zoo...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zookeeper-user

[Zookeeper-user] Roadmap for Zookeeper?

[Chad W. <ch...@po...>]

I see some updates took place last week but didn't see an announcement here=
.

Any plans to publicize the roadmap for Zookeeper? I am interested in knowin=
g
where the developers think Zookeeper is headed, especially with regards to
integration with Hadoop, and at what pace.

Chad Walters
Search Architect
Powerset Inc.

[Zookeeper-user] ZooKeeper release 0.0.1 now available

[Benjamin R. <br...@ya...>]

The first alpha release, 0.0.1, of ZooKeeper is now available for download. 
ZooKeeper is a highly available and reliable coordination system for use in 
distributed applications consisting of tens to thousands of servers. 
  
This release consists of the ZooKeeper server code and Java client libraries. 
Soon we will be releasing the C client libraries. The ZooKeeper server is 
pure java. The Getting Started wiki page, 
http://zookeeper.wiki.sourceforge.net/ZooKeeperGettingStarted has information 
for playing with and using Zookeeper. 
  
 ZooKeeper is a relatively new project hosted on sourceforge at 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/zookeeper