Re: [Yaml-core] To YAML or not to YAML

[Clark C . E. <cc...@cl...>]

On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 12:19:56AM -0700, Brian Ingerson wrote:
| I was chatting on IRC to some Perl gurus who suggested that YAML is no
| more a Markup Language than MIDI. Or than a kayak is an automobile. (To
| quote them)
| 
| Their point is that a Markup Language marks up text documents. XML is a
| data language that can reasonably markup text as well. YAML is not.
| (This was their assertion.)

First, we are advertising ourselves as specilizing
in data serilization.   Second, *yawn*, they are
just plain wrong (this will be in the FAQ I can see)

markup n.

  a. The collection of detailed stylistic instructions 
     written on a manuscript that is to be typeset.

  b. Computer Science. The collection of tags that 
     describe the specifications of an electronic 
     document, as for formatting. 

The primary difference between YAML and HTML is that
HTML has named lists, where we do not -- thus our 
conventions may be different and they might not like
the conventions; I personally dislike HTML's conventions.
In any case, we can certainly use YAML to provide 
the above services.

| For instance, how would YAML markup:
| 
| <QUOTE>I went to <A HREF="http://www.webvan.com">Webvan</A> to 
| get my groceries</QUOTE>

One must start with the text being marked up, 
in this case...

  I went to Webvan to get my groceries.

And then give you the markup rules:

 (a) the whole thing is designated as a QUOTE
 (b) WebVan is a link to http://www.webvan.com

So, here is a YAML marked up using HTML like 
conventions (the .val means "content of" )

QUOTE:
   I went to
   A %
     HREF: http://www.webvan.com
     .val: Webvan
   to get my groceries

They may argue that the above isn't obvious.  It 
certainly is to me, since it directly mirrors the 
data structures as laid out in-memory.  I'd say
that the equivalent HTML isn't obvious.  Let us
take another example.  Markup:

  In math class today, I learned that
  3 < 4 & 5 < 6.  I also learned that
  addition is difficult.

The markup rule, is that the above need to be
described as a paragraph!  First the YAML.

P: | In math class today, I learned that
   | 3 < 4 & 5 < 6.  I also learned that
   \ addition is difficult.

The HTML...

<P>In math class today, I learned that<BR>
   3 &lt; 4 &amp; 5 &lt; 6. &nbsp; I also 
   learned that<BR> addition is difficult.</P>

For this example, I think HTML is the looser.
This game is all a matter of taste.  Our 
tastes are different.   To Mrs. Helen Antwerp, 
a retired news paper editor, who edited articles 
from World War II (1938) up to very recently 
(1983) and is now in her 80's, neither the above 
YAML, nor the HTML is _real_ markup.  Everyone 
knows that real markup is something you do to a 
printed page with a pen for heaven sakes!

Kind Regards,

Clark

P.S. If you want to talk about "obviousness" we
can discuss the XML/HTML processing model and
the DOM.  This is definatley *not* obvious.
For example, if you have adjacent text nodes
in your DOM, save your DOM as XML, and then
re-load your DOM, all of your indexes will
be off since the adjacent text nodes will
be merged.  This ain't obvious.