xmlwiki-developers — xmlWiki developers list

[xmlWiki-developers] About Design and technical questions

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

Hi all

As we start coding you may have questions about XP, Java or XML or tools 
to use. I will be happy to answer any specific questions about those and 
help you out if you want to but I draw the line on design. I have kept 
my comments about a specific design to a minimum because I think it 
would be cheating you all if I gave you a full UML class diagram of the 
app.

I will not be available tonight but I can say that you are doing a good 
job and that you are heading in one direction that is right.

cheers,

-H

[xmlWiki-developers] Fw: question about book reports

[Arnaldo C. <ar...@mi...>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "CS327 TA" <cs3...@cs...>
To: "Arnaldo Cavazos" <ar...@mi...>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: question about book reports


> >     a) The extra project counts for 25% of the student's grade, and
> > all other grade constituents are multiplied by 75% to determine the
> > student's final grade.
> 
> That's how it is for 327.
> 
> >     #2 - Assuming that the book reports aren't graded pass-fail, what
> > will the grading criteria be?
> 
> That's a question you should ask Johnson - he'll be grading them.
> 
> 
> > P.S.  One other thing, while I'm writing you - I wanted to make a
> > comment about the midterm.  (This is not a complaint so much as it's
> > meant to be feedback.)  You spent a few minutes in the review session
> > explaining how verbosity would not be rewarded as much as distilling
> > the important concepts into concise bullet format.  Still, I found
> > myself struggling over trying to decide how much I should write more
> > than anything else.  I remember one question saying something like
> > "list several", which usually means "a lot".  Personally, I would have
> > found it easier had the questions been a bit more specific, i.e.,
> > "list three ways", "Give four examples", etc.  There was more than one
> > question for which I'm not sure if I'll be counted off for not writing
> > enough, or for writting too much.
> 
> We won't dock for writing too much, just get tired and cranky. :)
> 
> Still, point noted! I'll pass it on to the others as advice for designing
> the final.
> 
>  - Andrew.
> 

Re: [xmlWiki-developers] About Spikes

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

xm...@ne... wrote:

> rad...@zs... wrote
>
>>
>>
>> Do we need to run unit test on spike architectures? They may change 
>> veryfast.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Radu
>>
>>
> Spike are essentially pieces of code that are done just to figure how 
> to solve a problem or part of a problem programatically, the 
> technology and/or the process of implementing the technology AND to 
> figure out how much time it takes us to do it.  Once we answer our 
> question then they are thrown away or stored for personal reference. 
> They are not meant to be used for production although the knowledge 
> gained from them is.
>
> I vary my approach to a spike depending on the scope of the spike and 
> on the intent of the spike. I do not want to impart my bad habits upon 
> you but we should always strive in following TDP. Use your judgement.
>
> Ask yourself :
> (Scope)
> Is it a method of some class I am figuring out?
> Is it a class of an API? Is it an API that I do not understand?
> Is it a problem of expressing in code something written in English?
>
> (Intent)
> "How does this work?" and/or "How do I test this?".

Actually, "How do I test this?" and/or "How does this work?". :)

>
> -H
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmlWiki-developers mailing list
> xml...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xmlwiki-developers

[xmlWiki-developers] About Spikes

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

rad...@zs... wrote

>
>
>Do we need to run unit test on spike architectures? They may change veryfast.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Radu
>
>
Spike are essentially pieces of code that are done just to figure how to 
solve a problem or part of a problem programatically, the technology 
and/or the process of implementing the technology AND to figure out how 
much time it takes us to do it.  Once we answer our question then they 
are thrown away or stored for personal reference. They are not meant to 
be used for production although the knowledge gained from them is.

I vary my approach to a spike depending on the scope of the spike and on 
the intent of the spike. I do not want to impart my bad habits upon you 
but we should always strive in following TDP. Use your judgement.

Ask yourself :
(Scope)
Is it a method of some class I am figuring out?
Is it a class of an API? 
Is it an API that I do not understand?
Is it a problem of expressing in code something written in English?

(Intent)
 "How does this work?" and/or "How do I test this?".

-H

[xmlWiki-developers] TEST

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

This is a test.

-H

Re: [xmlWiki-developers] coding issues

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

In the thread titled "Subject: [XP] Exactly what IS _big_ design up front? " http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/message/37522 you can find a recent discussion about design. 


--- In extremeprogramming@y... <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/post?protectID=070082114180056192184147109024192012134152211241039019161126172205142>, drawstho@a... <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/post?protectID=114212113105099134170149203140129208071> wrote:
> So, there seem to be two schools of thought:
>   1. do enough design to get started with the first iteration, 
> knowing that you will be doing more in each iteration as you go 
> along, and
>   2. do a (relatively complete) first draft design up front, 
> knowing that it will be modified in each iteration as you go along.

Instead, let me suggest these three schools:
1. Do only enough design to be able to do the first task (or story)
2. Do enough design to be cover the first iteration
3. Do a complete (draft) design that spans multiple iterations

I would put XP in the first box, "true" RUP in the second, and both 
waterfall and RUP-as-often-practiced in the third.

I suspect that almost everyone here would agree that 3 is BDUF (Big 
Design Up Front). People (like me) who really like XP and Test-First 
Design would tend to label 2 as also being BDUF, but many other 
people would simply consider it to be DUF, or JEDUF (Just Enough).

Kevin




================

-H

cs3...@cs... wrote:

>>The program doesn't necesarily emege by refactoring alone but by
>>refactoring an initial design. This is where a small CRC session fits in
>>not only at the group level but at the pair level. Refactoring doesn't
>>address design, what it addresses is makiing existing code better and by
>>merciless refactoring the code then the design a.k.a the stucture of the
>>program is refined. But by the point you get to coding the design as
>>"emerged" through the various planning games that the developers have
>>particapated in.
>>
>
>Just thought I might cut in here...
>
>Actually, I have seen people like Ron Jeffries argue very strongly that
>the "architecture" emerges through refactoring *alone*. Certain people in
>the XP camp have come out very strongly against any sort of up-front
>design (not sure if I agree with this), especially involving the use of
>patterns (which is more sensible, IMO). One can see another example in the
>ObjectMentor "Bowling example" we have linked to off the course wiki -
>there is no CRC involved there - the design emerges through writing those
>tests, and the discussion that happens while the developers are sitting
>down coding, not before.
>
>Of course, these are all well and good for small toy examples like Bowling
>Scores... and in your case it may be more appropriate to do some design up
>front, especially since your team requires more synchronization and can't
>just ask strike up a group-wide design discussion at any one time. So, I
>would say Hugo's view is perhaps pragmatic, but not necessarily the party
>line.
>
>Be sure to write up issues like this, the pros/cons of each option,
>why you did what you did, how it worked out for you, etc. for the
>end-of-semester write-up.
>
> - Andrew.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>xmlWiki-developers mailing list
>xml...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xmlwiki-developers
>

Re: [xmlWiki-developers] coding issues

[CS327 TA <cs3...@cs...>]

> The program doesn't necesarily emege by refactoring alone but by
> refactoring an initial design. This is where a small CRC session fits in
> not only at the group level but at the pair level. Refactoring doesn't
> address design, what it addresses is makiing existing code better and by
> merciless refactoring the code then the design a.k.a the stucture of the
> program is refined. But by the point you get to coding the design as
> "emerged" through the various planning games that the developers have
> particapated in.

Just thought I might cut in here...

Actually, I have seen people like Ron Jeffries argue very strongly that
the "architecture" emerges through refactoring *alone*. Certain people in
the XP camp have come out very strongly against any sort of up-front
design (not sure if I agree with this), especially involving the use of
patterns (which is more sensible, IMO). One can see another example in the
ObjectMentor "Bowling example" we have linked to off the course wiki -
there is no CRC involved there - the design emerges through writing those
tests, and the discussion that happens while the developers are sitting
down coding, not before.

Of course, these are all well and good for small toy examples like Bowling
Scores... and in your case it may be more appropriate to do some design up
front, especially since your team requires more synchronization and can't
just ask strike up a group-wide design discussion at any one time. So, I
would say Hugo's view is perhaps pragmatic, but not necessarily the party
line.

Be sure to write up issues like this, the pros/cons of each option,
why you did what you did, how it worked out for you, etc. for the
end-of-semester write-up.

 - Andrew.

[xmlWiki-developers] XML2HTML transformer

[Radu D. <rd...@ly...>]

Hi, guys.

I and Abe spent this weekend working on the XML->HTML translator.For now, we consider HTML not XHTML.

For those interested, here there are 3 files you need:
- the XSLT for XML->HTML transformation
- a XML sample
- JAVA source for translator(the output is System.out, for now).

Very soon I will send a document with tags we need to define a XML drived from a wiki.

To run the translator, use:

Java -classpath .;%JAXP%\jaxp.jar;%JAXP%\crimson.jar;%J
AXP%\xalan.jar XML2HTMLTransformer wikiXSL.xsl wikiXML.xml

Please let me know if you have any question.

Thanks.

Radu






Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
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Re: [xmlWiki-developers] (Acceptance Test) - Browse Theme

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

Well, Chris and I basically spent the weekend seting up Tomcat and the 
testing framework. We got around to doing  part of the acceptance test 
using HttpUnit and we got a servlet running in tomcat.

We have the basic tests to implement either in code or on paper. 
Hopefully we will be able to put something into CVS by Monday or Tuesday.

Chris and Hugo

xm...@ne... wrote:

> Test
>
> When a page is loaded the user is presented with a well formed XHTML
> document that contains a wiki page. This page must have the following
> links that provide the basic functionality of the page :
>
> A Title that leads to a links to a search engine that provides a list of
> all pages where the title is referenced.
>
> An Edit Text link that directs the user to the Edit form
>
> -----------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmlWiki-developers mailing list
> xml...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xmlwiki-developers

[xmlWiki-developers] Create/Save update

[Jim K. <ka...@ie...>]

I just added new versions of the Create/Save code to CVS.  Checkout or
update your tree and run 'ant doc' to get an API documentation set in the
/doc directory.

Regards,
Jim

[xmlWiki-developers] Problems using CVS...

[Jim K. <ka...@ie...>]

It seems that a lot of you are having the same 'missing directory' problem
when trying to download the source tree from CVS.  The problem was traced to
an error in my instructions.  Correct item 5:

old:  5.  Log into your SSH account once to get things initialized:  ssh -l
username  xmlwiki.sourceforge.net

new: 5.  Log into your SSH account once to get things initialized:  ssh -l
username  cvs.xmlwiki.sourceforge.net


Hope that helps,

Jim

[xmlWiki-developers] previous conversation.

[Arnaldo C. <ar...@mi...>]

<font color=3D"gray">[18:57]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">rdram is =
now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"gray">[18:57]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">arnaldo =
is now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Hi Hugo.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Hello, Radu.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Hi, Arnaldo. I had a littele =
conversation with Hugo regarding XML/XHTML/XSLT.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Cool.  What were the =
results?<br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:01]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">kalafutj =
is now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Hey guys....<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Hi, Jim.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> After 2 days of reading, now =
it's more clear how XML/XSLT fit in the project.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Very nice.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Radu, would you be willing to =
summarize your clarity on the issue in an email to the group?  I'm sure =
I could learn a lot from your insights.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Sure.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Still it's not clear how XHTML =
fits in here.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Jim, how's it going?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> The whole ideea is that you can =
map XML tag to different actions by applying a XSL transformation.It =
seems to me that building that transformation is the difficult part.<br =
/>
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Fine...I was pleased with =
the test.  The question I thought I'd get a 0 on I got a 10, it was the =
sure-fire ones that hurt me :(<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Do you know the curb for =
grades?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> OK, Jim, just tell us.  What =
was your score. :)<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Radu, I hear Johson's a pretty =
merciful grader.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Jim, for the question I thought =
I'd get a 0 I got 0. :-)<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> But I heard most of the people =
screwed up the &quot;baseline&quot; Presmann crap.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> I was a bit of a smart-ass =
on the last one and said &quot;This is my Level 0 DFD...&quot;  and my =
drawing had two blocks or something ridiculous...<br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:09]</font> &nbsp; <font =
color=3D"gray">ChrisHeistad is now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Who can remember all the =
Pressman stuff???  He says the same thing 150 subtley different ways.<br =
/>
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Jim, would you have the =
patience to help me out with some configuration(CVS mainly).<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Hi Chris.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> I can't believe somebody can =
write this kind of book.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> What was question 6?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Hey, Chris.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> Hi Radu<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Radu:  yeah on the CVS =
help...it was a bit of a pain.<br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:10]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">bola is =
now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Green">%% bola</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> I can't even remember.Something =
with baseline metrics.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Q6: what makes metrics =
useful?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Wrong, Jim.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> 0<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> damn<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> Hi Arnaldo<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> This is what I thought.<br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:11]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">elhugo =
is now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:11]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">bola is =
now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Green">%% bola</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Looking at the graph, I =
think there were all 0s and 1 one on Q6 :)<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> But take a look at midterm =
solutions and see the real answer.<br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:11]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">abe is =
now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> What graph, Jim?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Hi, Abe.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> The Distribution graph from =
the Gradebook.exe program.  You can drill down to see how everyone did =
on each question.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> You got a 0, so did I, so =
did Arnaldo, etc etc etc.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;abe&gt</font> hi, guys. hi, Radu.<br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:13]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">bola is =
now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> I don't have it. What is the =
distribution for the grades?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Overall?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Who got 0 on Q6? Aye.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;bola&gt</font> hey. guys..<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Aye, Radu.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Range 17-48,  mean: 36.6<br =
/>
<font color=3D"gray">[19:14]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">dhinkley =
is now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Well, everyone is here.  I =
guess we can get started.!<br />
<font color=3D"Purple">* arnaldo has changed the subject to: coding =
issues</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Anybody try CVS?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Were there any disagreements =
with some of the practices I suggested in the email earlier today?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Not me.I will tonight.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;abe&gt</font> I have winCVS installed, that is =
as far as I got.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Let's say this:  if you =
haven't tried CVS yet, try it tonight.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Aye?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> AYe.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;dhinkley&gt</font> aye, lets go on.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Agreed.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Any problems with the =
practices I suggested earlier today?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> I'll take that as a no, and we =
can move on.<br />
<font color=3D"Purple">* arnaldo has changed the subject to: initial =
design discussion</font><br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Has anyone not seem Jim's =
proposed design?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Again, I'll take that as a =
no.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Any problems with it?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> How did we receive =
it?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> email.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> On the wikiPage object...<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> or:  <a =
href=3D"http://24.178.71.65:8081/xmlwiki/XmlWikiSystemSummary.pdf">http:/=
/24.178.71.65:8081/xmlwiki/XmlWikiSystemSummary.pdf</a> <br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> As Johnson says, =
&quot;Criticism is easier than Creation&quot;...<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Don't we need a title and a =
version? Or these are details? Sorry Jim.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Thank you Jim for doing the =
hard part for us.  Now, any criticisms of Jim's hard work?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> :)<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Good work, Jim. :-)<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> I threw this together from =
7:00 to 7:30, so the nuances are missing and the UML is probably just =
plain wrong.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Got it.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Are we all thinking along =
those lines, or do you guys have something totally different in mind?<br =
/>
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> I have a question. How =
do we request a page?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> It's close though.  We =
probably don't want to define nuances too precisely quite yet.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> The servlet will accept =
connections by default.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Jim, are those boxes =
objects?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Classes<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> OK<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Chris, a web page or a wiki =
page?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> So, the WikiDB has many Wiki =
pages...<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> I would think the page =
would only exist in the database as a wikipage?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> It can exist however, but =
the transport would be a standard WikiPage object that everyone =
understands.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> But how do you fetch and =
store the pages?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> So, each person browsing the =
Wiki would be calling up a new instance of &quot;BrowseWikiPage&quot;?  =
Is that correct?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> As XML.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> If I want to get a =
wikipage, what do I do? What is the interface?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Calls to the WikiDB object =
would return or submit WikiPages... the underlying filesystem or DB =
stuff is masked.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Chris:   =
db.retrieveWikiPage(&quot;My Page Name&quot;)<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> There we go. I agree.<br =
/>
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> There are other ways too =
(like by ID)<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Correct, Jim.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> How about other interfaces?  =
Like between EditWikiPage and BrowseWikiPage?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> You don't wanna get a page by =
name. It may have many versions.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Maybe the WikiPage object is =
smart enough to handle and or all versions?  that isn't defined =
yet...<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> and=3Dany<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> I think we will have several =
translators.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Correct me Hugo.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> It does need to be by =
name for simplicity, maybe more complex later. XP means simple first =
:-)<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> We probably would want to =
break that one up b/c I forsee it growing too...<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;elhugo&gt</font> why would we have several =
translators? it seems that one can handle the job.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Or, perhaps all the =
tranlators' functionality will be covered by a single translator =
class?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> wikiTranslator: wiki =
&lt;-&gt;XML.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> XHTML translator: =
XML-&gt;XHTML.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;elhugo&gt</font> wouldn't the state of the =
translator be determined by the XSL that is being used in the current =
thread?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> Having a WikiTranslator =
superclass with individual notations implemented in subclasses might be =
in store, though that wouldn't be done now.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> It needs to be an =
interface too. Lets not just assume we'll only stick to those specific =
manilpulations.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Good thought, Jim.  Sounds =
like something that would be organized in refactoring.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> What do you mean, Hugo?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> So, let's address the missing =
interfaces.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> At this point, I don't see =
the need for Session objects.  What about you guys?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Can we use a XSL to translate =
wiki-&gt;XML?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;elhugo&gt</font> yes<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;elhugo&gt</font> but regex works better for =
that<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Stupid question:  what's a =
&quot;Session Object?&quot;<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Session objects are evil.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> ie.  Amazon.com tracking =
your &quot;shopping cart&quot; between pages<br />
<font color=3D"Green">%% elhugo</font><br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> OK.  Evil personified, =
shopping cart, got it.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;dhinkley&gt</font> i think we will use them to =
control our updates.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> I think it looks pretty good, =
Jim.<br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:30]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">elhugo =
is now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Green">%% bola</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> deb you mean the =
security?<br />
<font color=3D"gray">[19:30]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">bola is =
now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;elhugo&gt</font> keep state for a particular =
user<br />
<font color=3D"Green">%% bola</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;dhinkley&gt</font> no, I mean concurrent =
updates, things like that, but I am not sure exactly.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Is it safe to say that we can =
move from discussing/challenging the diagram to clearing up things?<br =
/>
<font color=3D"gray">[19:31]</font> &nbsp; <font color=3D"gray">bola is =
now Available ()</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;ChrisHeistad&gt</font> aye<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> sure<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> For one server, maybe they =
work. But what if you use a load balancer for HTTP requests?<br />
<font color=3D"Purple">* arnaldo has changed the subject to: questioning =
Jim's design.</font><br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> Aye.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;bola&gt</font> is anyone..having problems with =
the jabber client sw?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;elhugo&gt</font> yes<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;rdram&gt</font> What's sw?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> What's the interface in =
EditWikiPage that BrowseWikiPage will call?<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;kalafutj&gt</font> What happens when you guys =
get booted off?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> software.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;bola&gt</font> it seems to be more stable =
now..<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;elhugo&gt</font> the previous conversation is =
lost<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;bola&gt</font> can someone pls cut and =
paste?<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> Sure.  Hang on...<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> no wait.<br />
<font color=3D"Red">&lt;arnaldo&gt</font> I'm going to save the current =
conversation and email to all.<br />
<font color=3D"Navy">&lt;abe&gt</font> much better...<br />

[xmlWiki-developers] My take on a system summary

[Jim K. <ka...@ie...>]

Before or during the chat, please take a look at what I had in mind for the
basic, overall system operation.  I put together a small document which
summarizes my thoughts in a few paragraphs and one drawing.

Find it at:  http://24.178.71.65:8081/xmlwiki/XmlWikiSystemSummary.pdf

Regards,
Jim

Re: [xmlWiki-developers] coding issues

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

Hey some comments.

ar...@mi... wrote:

> Folks,
>
>     We're both eager and close to replacing a lot of this planning 
> with coding.  I think the following issues will prove to be crucial to us:
>
Yes, me too, for future reference: it has been my experience that this 
is the part that can kill the willingness of a group implementing XP for 
the first time especially when they are on a short time frame. In a 
context where a short deadline is not hanging over the team then the 
planning sessions are how the team developes the architecture and the 
design of an application. Normally each of the session (user stories, 
release planning, iteration planning ) take anywhere from one good 
afternoon to one full day. This may seem a lot BUTwhen compared to 
things like RUP you will find that you can spend days (weeks) in each of 
the initial phases (requirement gatherring, etc).

>     -->Refactoring<--  XP is known for letting the architecture 
> "emerge".  This will only happen if we're diligent to "refactor 
> mercilessly", one of the central XP practices.  Briefly, this is about 
> having well-organized code, and constantly reorganizing it to the next 
> level.  I think we all know what well-organized code is, but for 
> interested parties, you can check out www.refactoring.com 
> <http://www.refactoring.com>  if you feel like it.
>
The program doesn't necesarily emege by refactoring alone but by 
refactoring an initial design. This is where a small CRC session fits in 
not only at the group level but at the pair level. Refactoring doesn't 
address design, what it addresses is makiing existing code better and by 
merciless refactoring the code then the design a.k.a the stucture of the 
program is refined. But by the point you get to coding the design as 
"emerged" through the various planning games that the developers have 
particapated in.

User Stories                        ---->            Engineering 
Taske                ---->
(Very General Design)                            (Less General 
Design)                           

Aceptance Test/Unit Test                            ----->             
    Code
(Less General and More Specific Deisgn)                            (Very 
Specific Design and Structure)

----> Refactoring
        (Better Design, Best Structure)

>     -->Practices unique to our group<--  An environment where we're 
> all in the same room is very beneficial for XP.  To make an XP project 
> work with everyone spread out, we're all going to need to commit 
> up-front to our own set of practices.  I think that these should be:
>
>         a)After every coding session, email the group and summarize 
> what you did.  This way we all have a gist of the code's current state.
>
Do you guys feel it would be practical to do a "pseudo standup meeting" 
 before you code. This could be set up as a wiki page in the course wiki 
where we could keep a log  and everybody can see where we are. For 
example this would be by stand up meeting entry :

"Yesterday, Chis and I got together and use VPN for our programming 
session. We mainly spent the time setting up all the java stuff that has 
to be downloaded in order to work together. We found that VPN refreshes 
fast IF the background is kept black. I set up Forte for Jim and showed 
him very briefly how to use it by setting up the inital class in the 
JUnit Cookbook. Before I next programming session I will write up the 
initial accptance test for the Browse user strory."

Stand-up meeting are an integral part of XP. It is how XPers  start the day.

>         b)We've assigned groups different portions of the code, and 
> this is probably a necessary evil, since we're all spread out.  But, 
> keep in mind the XP practice of collective ownership.  Feel free to 
> step outside the box of what you've been assigned and to work on 
> something else...just let the group know what you did.
>
The necesary evil is actually how it works. We as a group have assigned 
pairs at the story level. We did this in order to try to code as fast as 
possible. Normally, the developers of a group request to do a particular 
engineering task ane THEN you pair with whoever wants the task too. For 
a first go at XP this minor and also our strories are fairly simple so 
this minor refinement of XP should not pose a problem.  Maybe for the 
second iteration we can then pair off at the engineering taks level 
since then it is easier to rotate between pairs.

>         c)Log into our xmlWiki chat space whenever you're coding.  
> This way you can ensure that no two pairs are changing the same 
> portion of code simultaneously, and you can ask questions to other 
> people currently coding.
>
>     Let's try and agree to commit to these (or change them) up front.
>
>  
>
> Tonight's 8PM CST meeting:
>
>     -Quick discussion of above practices/buy-in/change.  This should 
> take 10 minutes, *tops*, hopefully more like 5.  If you disagree, have 
> something to add or change or eliminate, speak quickly or forever hold 
> your peace.
>
Kent Beck and others have commented that as long as you follow the 
twelve practices of XP then you are doing XP. How many of them are we 
doing? We should be able to do 11 of them by the end of the term.

http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExtremeProgrammingCorePractices

>     -Initial design discussion.  According to "XP Installed", this 
> should take no more than 10-15 minutes.  I say we should give it 30, 
> tops.  Again, under XP, we should expect the first architecture design 
> to be wrong anyway, and if we refactor mercilessly, it will be easy to 
> change.
>
This would be true if we were all good in server side Java programming 
and XML/XSL/XSLT. But some of you do not have the language to 
communicate confidently about the technology. For example when I say 
"There is going to be a servlet that will authenticate the user against 
the LDAP server and then initate a Session." I can almost see the code 
and in some cases a pattern to use. I know which API's I will use and 
what classes to instanciate and which methods to call.  For those 
particular cases where I may be rusty then at least I know where exactly 
in the JavaDoc to look to refresh my mind. In some cases I also know 
where to find a small snipplet of example code.  IF we were all at this 
level THEN I would feel confident that we could dispense with a CRC 
session because we could communicate in English and know in code what to 
do.  I do not think that the design meeting is going to be a short one.

>     -Someone will need to document our initial design in UML, and send 
> it to the group.  Any takers?
>
It would be interesting to see the intial plan and compare it to the 
refactored design after the each iteration.

The UML can be done from the code by using TogetherJ ( 
http://www.togethersoft.com ). The only problem is the first one class 
diagram.

>     -Since we're moving into coding, I think our meeting lengths 
> should be drastically reduced at this point (at least until the 2nd 
> iteration).  If not, we're doing something wrong.
>
>  
>
> --Arnaldo
>
>    
>

[xmlWiki-developers] coding issues

[Arnaldo C. <ar...@mi...>]

Folks,
    We're both eager and close to replacing a lot of this planning with =
coding.  I think the following issues will prove to be crucial to us:
    -->Refactoring<--  XP is known for letting the architecture =
"emerge".  This will only happen if we're diligent to "refactor =
mercilessly", one of the central XP practices.  Briefly, this is about =
having well-organized code, and constantly reorganizing it to the next =
level.  I think we all know what well-organized code is, but for =
interested parties, you can check out www.refactoring.com if you feel =
like it.
    -->Practices unique to our group<--  An environment where we're all =
in the same room is very beneficial for XP.  To make an XP project work =
with everyone spread out, we're all going to need to commit up-front to =
our own set of practices.  I think that these should be:
        a)After every coding session, email the group and summarize what =
you did.  This way we all have a gist of the code's current state.
        b)We've assigned groups different portions of the code, and this =
is probably a necessary evil, since we're all spread out.  But, keep in =
mind the XP practice of collective ownership.  Feel free to step outside =
the box of what you've been assigned and to work on something =
else...just let the group know what you did.
        c)Log into our xmlWiki chat space whenever you're coding.  This =
way you can ensure that no two pairs are changing the same portion of =
code simultaneously, and you can ask questions to other people currently =
coding.
    Let's try and agree to commit to these (or change them) up front.

Tonight's 8PM CST meeting:
    -Quick discussion of above practices/buy-in/change.  This should =
take 10 minutes, *tops*, hopefully more like 5.  If you disagree, have =
something to add or change or eliminate, speak quickly or forever hold =
your peace.
    -Initial design discussion.  According to "XP Installed", this =
should take no more than 10-15 minutes.  I say we should give it 30, =
tops.  Again, under XP, we should expect the first architecture design =
to be wrong anyway, and if we refactor mercilessly, it will be easy to =
change.
    -Someone will need to document our initial design in UML, and send =
it to the group.  Any takers?
    -Since we're moving into coding, I think our meeting lengths should =
be drastically reduced at this point (at least until the 2nd iteration). =
 If not, we're doing something wrong.

--Arnaldo
   =20

[xmlWiki-developers] meeting minutes from Monday

[Arnaldo C. <ar...@mi...>]

Folks,
    Sorry these weren't as timely as others have been.
    Here were the decisions made on Monday.
 
Tomcat Version of choice:  3.2.3
Coding standard: http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/index.html
 
--Task Breakdowns--

Overall tasks:
-Design interfaces
-Document interfaces in UML
 
Tasks for Create Story:
-write acceptance tests
-open/close files
-save WikiPage objects in an organized way
-load a specific WikiPage from disk and return a WikiPage object
-update an existing WikiPage on disk
 
For Edit Story:
-write acceptance tests
-Open/load page
-translate
-change
-check for well-formedness
-translate
-save old and new versions
 
For Browse Story:
-write acceptance tests
-make a servlet to start thread
-load/translate xml->xhtml/send out xhtml
-select a new page
-Get or Post HTTP connection
 
For Preview:
-write acceptance tests
-make XSL stylesheets
-load page from the edit
-translate(which has its own)
-send out
 
For Translate:
-write acceptance tests
-Decide on what will be considered "Standard Wiki Notation"
-XML to Standard Wiki Translation
-XML to XHTML translation
-Standard Wiki to XML translation
-XHTML to Standard Wiki
 
--Arnaldo

[xmlWiki-developers] First CVS commit

[Jim K. <ka...@ie...>]

I've set up the basic CVS directory structure and imported the Create/Save
files.  I haven't done the Javadoc on that yet, and the comments aren't even
complete, but it should be a good test case to see if you can import the
tree.  You can easily browse to it from our page on SourceForge, but setting
up cvs and ssh (a command line version) to download the tree and do the
whole CVS thing is a bit tedious.  I'd highly recommend reading the
CVS/Windows FAQ on SourceForge to get started.

Once you've checked out the tree and have Java, junit and Ant installed
properly, you should be able to run "ant test" from the /xmlwiki directory
which will build all the files and run the tests.  We'll finish/add docs
soon.  I think you all can glean how to use the classes by skimming the
sources anyway.


Regards,
Jim

[xmlWiki-developers] agenda for Oct 29 meeting

[Arnaldo C. <ar...@mi...>]

All,
    Usually, I send out an agenda that attempts to pack in as much work =
as we can in a single meeting.  Tonight, I have a suggestion that we =
have an alternate goal...making good, defendable decisions in as short a =
time as possible.  Let's set an ambitious goal like the meeting lasting =
no more than 1/2 hour.  The shorter we go, the more time we can have for =
coding, and hopefully working on solutions will give us more of a =
baseline for discussions=20
    That said, here are tonight's topics:
    - versions for Tomcat, Ant, JBoss, etc. used by all people.
    - coding standards
    - tasks for user stories in the first iteration.
--Arnaldo

Re: [xmlWiki-developers] Problems using singletons in servlets

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

> would a centralized object be useful for (pretending for the moment that a
> safe singleton could be achieved).


Object pool for db connections.

-H

Re: [xmlWiki-developers] Problems using singletons in servlets

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

rd...@ly... wrote:

 > Hi, gang.
 >
 > Reading the base clases for our project provided by Jim, I noticed
 > that the WikiContext class will be implemented as a singleton.
 >
 > As far as I know, this is not a trivial implementation in Java

actually in Java it is trivial. much easier than in C++ or some claim 
Smalltalk. Check out the implementation in James Cooper's Java(tm) 
Design Patterns: A Tutorial.

( also
 >  in C++ if you consider all the multithreading stuff). The main
 > reason is a singleton is UNIQUE PER JVM. But if you have several
 > JVMs running on the same server, you end up having several
 > singletons runing in the same time. That is also true for Servlets.
 >  The whole life cycle for a Servlet object(initialized once) is
 > valid for the JVM the container is runnning. But again what if you
 > several containers running on different JVMs?

Some of the commercial app servers maintain state across multiple vm's. 
This is part of their approach to load balancing. In theory if a 
singleton is instantiated in one vm (which in the servlet API 2.3 the 
servlet container vm and and server vm are separate but not in previous 
versions of the api) then that singleton is either shared by all vm's or 
cloned but it's state is maintained across all vm's.

I think that the only real way off figuring if the singleton is 
problematic or not is to test in on a particular server.

-H

Re: [xmlWiki-developers] Problems using singletons in servlets

[James J K. <Kal...@ca...>]

>Reading the base clases for our project provided by Jim, I noticed that
the WikiContext class will be implemented >as a singleton.

>As far as I know, this is not a trivial implementation in Java( also in
C++ if you consider all the multithreading >stuff). The main reason is a
singleton is UNIQUE PER JVM. But if you have several JVMs running on the
same server, >you end up having several singletons runing in the same time.
That is also true for Servlets. The whole life cycle >for a Servlet
object(initialized once) is valid for the JVM the container is runnning.
But again what if you >several containers running on different JVMs?

>Please let me know if there is any solution for this.

>Thank you.

Good point.

One quick solution would be to descope the role of the object to more of a
clearing house of information.  If it isn't keeping track of real-time
states and resources, then having multiple instances on separate VMs
shouldn't cause problems.  Of course, at some point its role will shrink to
the point of not even being necessary, which is a very real possibility.  I
guess the important question is:  aside from settings and polices, what
would a centralized object be useful for (pretending for the moment that a
safe singleton could be achieved).


Regards,
Jim

[xmlWiki-developers] Problems using singletons in servlets

[Radu D. <rd...@ly...>]

Hi, gang.

Reading the base clases for our project provided by Jim, I noticed that the WikiContext class will be implemented as a singleton.

As far as I know, this is not a trivial implementation in Java( also in C++ if you consider all the multithreading stuff). The main reason is a singleton is UNIQUE PER JVM. But if you have several JVMs running on the same server, you end up having several singletons runing in the same time. That is also true for Servlets. The whole life cycle for a Servlet object(initialized once) is valid for the JVM the container is runnning. But again what if you several containers running on different JVMs?

Please let me know if there is any solution for this.

Thank you.

Radu 
---






On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:46:14  
 James J Kalafut wrote:
>Here are some thoughts I had concerning really basic classes that everyone
>will use.  These are just my thoughts, not the result of pair work, so they
>are just suggestions at this point.
>
>Class   -   Description
>
>WikiPage   -  Encapsulates one page, however that is represented, and will
>be passed around from the database, parser, HTML generator, etc...
>
>WikiContext   -  This would be a singleton which would contain common
>configuration information.  Users typically call getInstance() on it, and
>then use that object to learn about the environment, policies/setting, and
>get references to other objects.
>
>WikiDB  -  Abstracts the database functions.  One would probably call
>getLocalDB() on a WikiContext object to get a reference, and then this
>class would handle page creation/deletion/retrieval/update.  I would expect
>that most of the functions would be passing WikiPage references.  The guts
>of this class would then attach to a production DB, text file interface,
>etc.
>
>Those are just some ideas, and I think that the Create/Save work will use
>all of those concepts.  Let me know if I'm out in right field compared to
>your perspectives of the foundation classes.
>
>Unit Testing---I've used JUnit and SUnit quite a bit with good results, but
>for servlet and other web work we'll need something to augment those test
>fixtures.  On the Apache site I saw references to both HTTPUnit and
>something called 'Cactus', and I wanted to know if anyone has experience
>with those or other test setups that accommodate web development.
>
>Regards,
>Jim Kalafut
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>xmlWiki-developers mailing list
>xml...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xmlwiki-developers
>


Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp

[xmlWiki-developers] Alternative Coding Standard

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

http://www.mindprod.com/unmain.html

-H

[xmlWiki-developers] Coding Standard

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

Here is a concise ref for a coding standard :

http://users.vnet.net/wwake/xp/xp0002f/codingstd.gif

and here is THE coding standard :

http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/index.html

-H

[xmlWiki-developers] Index Cards

[Hugo G. <xm...@ne...>]

Although we will be using the class wiki for documenting I would 
strongly suggest that you keep a set of index cards handy with the user 
stories and acceptance tests. Also, when we do the CRC session the cards 
  will be handy for writting up classes and to keep track what is going on.

-H