Thread: Re: [xmlvm-users] xmlvm-users Digest, Vol 9, Issue 8

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Hi Arno,

Thanks for answering here some of the questions I had sent to you  
directly last week.

I think the general direction of what you have proposed is reasonable.
I understand your interest in motivating others with commercial  
interests to contribute to the project.

I find the technology of XMLVM interesting in and of itself.  My main  
limitation is time, given that I work
for someone else full-time and can only work on my personal  
commercial interests (or XMLVM) with the limited time
that is left.

The main thing you are providing for commercial developers, I  
believe, is savings of time - not having to
port an application from Android to the iPhone.  So, as far as I am  
concerned, if I spend roughly the same
amount of time working on XMLVM that I would have done directly for  
an iPhone port of an Android application,
that's fine.  I'd rather be doing something different than coding the  
same thing a second time anyway.
And ostensibly that time savings adds up for the next product, etc.

I do have one additional comment regarding your view of the linking  
exception:  I believe that
the linking exception should also be applied to all "derived works"  
created by the commercial developer
based on the code base for which the linking exception was granted.   
At the very least, this allows
the commercial developer to include bug fixes, even if these are not  
deemed "significant" by other standards.
They may also include contributions that do not seem "significant" to  
the group but which are significant to the
commercial entity.  I believe this would be a reasonable exception.

I appreciate your attitude of cooperation and desire to give-and- 
take.  That's what business is about, or at
least should be about.

I look forward to the opportunity to work with all of you.  My main  
challenge will be to actually find the time
to do all the personal projects (including XMLVM) that I would like  
to do, with the challenges of keeping
a full-time coding job.  If any of you have any advice or suggestions  
from personal experience regarding this,
I'm all ears.

Regards,
Mark Wolfskehl, Ph.D.

I'll repeat here part of my personal introduction to Arno:

http://www.linkedin.com/in/markwolfskehl

I am currently working as a senior software engineer for SeaChange  
International, a producer of cable Video On Demand servers and  
clients.  My programming background has been mainly in C++.  I have  
done a large project in Prolog, and I am currently working full-time  
in Java SE.  I have a Ph.D. granted in 2000 in computer science from  
Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken, NJ.  I will include a  
link to my LinkedIn page.  There isn't much mention there of my  
graduate background as it does not generally apply directly to the  
type of industry work I usually do (mainly highly multithreaded/logic  
intensive/algorithms work), but it is probably relevant to your project.

My graduate work was heavily focused on theoretical computer science  
- computational complexity theory, proofs, formal methods, formal  
semantics of programming languages, and model checking.  I have  
subsequently done some work utilizing a formal mathematics approach  
to algorithm development (only personal notes), in particular a  
speculative design for a heuristic solution to 3SAT - something that  
has been on the shelf for a long time and has never been prototyped.   
My Ph.D. advisor was Steve Bloom (Ph.D. in math from MIT), and I have  
worked with David Klappholz (he used to focus on compiler optimization).

On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:55 PM, xmlvm-users- 
re...@li... wrote:

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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: about org_xmlvm_iphone_AVAudioPlayer	initialization
>       (Wolfgang Korn)
>    2. Patches and broken SVN (Panayotis Katsaloulis)
>    3. Re: Patches and broken SVN (Sascha Haeberling)
>    4. Re: Patches and broken SVN (Sascha Haeberling)
>    5. Clarifications on the Linking Exception (Arno Puder)
>    6. Google TechTalk (Arno Puder)
>    7. Re: Clarifications on the Linking Exception
>       (Panayotis Katsaloulis)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:08:58 +0100
> From: Wolfgang Korn <wol...@xm...>
> Subject: Re: [xmlvm-users] about org_xmlvm_iphone_AVAudioPlayer
> 	initialization
> To: Panayotis Katsaloulis <pan...@pa...>
> Cc: xml...@li...
> Message-ID: <4B9...@xm...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Panayotis,
>
> I just checked the code you mentioned. I agree - retain shouldn't be
> called. I committed this change to SVN.
>
> -- Wolfgang
>
>
> Panayotis Katsaloulis wrote:
>> in the initialization of  "org_xmlvm_iphone_AVAudioPlayer.m",  
>> there is
>> this code:
>>
>> return [[[AVAudioPlayer alloc] initWithContentsOfURL: url error:
>> &(outError->error_org_xmlvm_iphone_NSError)] retain];
>>
>> Why there is a need for a second retain there (the first is the alloc
>> itself) ?
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---------
>> Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
>> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
>> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
>> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmlvm-users mailing list
>> xml...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xmlvm-users
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:16:12 +0200
> From: Panayotis Katsaloulis <pan...@pa...>
> Subject: [xmlvm-users] Patches and broken SVN
> To: xml...@li...
> Message-ID: <AAC...@pa...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Hello again!
>
> I'd decided to send you my latest patch with tons of improvements in
> the obj-c compatibility layer.
> But I've seen that the current SVN release is broken.
> Can I just send the patches the usual way ?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:22:54 +0100
> From: Sascha Haeberling <sa...@xm...>
> Subject: Re: [xmlvm-users] Patches and broken SVN
> To: Panayotis Katsaloulis <pan...@pa...>
> Cc: xml...@li...
> Message-ID:
> 	<709...@ma...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> You can send us the well-commented and formatted patches the usual  
> way via
> the review tool.
>
> I am currently taking a look at the breakage.
>
> // Sascha
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Panayotis Katsaloulis <
> pan...@pa...> wrote:
>
>> Hello again!
>>
>> I'd decided to send you my latest patch with tons of improvements in
>> the obj-c compatibility layer.
>> But I've seen that the current SVN release is broken.
>> Can I just send the patches the usual way ?
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---------
>> Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
>> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
>> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
>> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmlvm-users mailing list
>> xml...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xmlvm-users
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:42:51 +0100
> From: Sascha Haeberling <sa...@xm...>
> Subject: Re: [xmlvm-users] Patches and broken SVN
> To: Panayotis Katsaloulis <pan...@pa...>
> Cc: xml...@li...
> Message-ID:
> 	<709...@ma...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> FYI: Current HEAD should work again.
>
> // Sascha
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Sascha Haeberling  
> <sa...@xm...> wrote:
>
>> You can send us the well-commented and formatted patches the usual  
>> way via
>> the review tool.
>>
>> I am currently taking a look at the breakage.
>>
>> // Sascha
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 6:16 PM, Panayotis Katsaloulis <
>> pan...@pa...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello again!
>>>
>>> I'd decided to send you my latest patch with tons of improvements in
>>> the obj-c compatibility layer.
>>> But I've seen that the current SVN release is broken.
>>> Can I just send the patches the usual way ?
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> ----------
>>> Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
>>> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
>>> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
>>> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmlvm-users mailing list
>>> xml...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xmlvm-users
>>>
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:16:18 +0100
> From: Arno Puder <ar...@pu...>
> Subject: [xmlvm-users] Clarifications on the Linking Exception
> To: "xml...@li..."
> 	<xml...@li...>
> Message-ID: <4B9...@pu...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> Guys,
>
> there have been some questions regarding our licensing model. I would
> like to take this opportunity to express our (i.e., the XMLVM Core  
> Team)
> intent. Before I go into details, I want to point out that our goal is
> to create a fair model that serves both the XMLVM Core Team as well as
> contributors. We acknowledge that some of you are interested in using
> XMLVM for commercial purposes. We ask you to acknowledge that we have
> legitimate business interests as well. The goal is to find a balance
> that works for all of us. XMLVM is and always will be Open Source. We
> use the GPL license and as many of you know, this license is very
> restrictive. The GPL license requires you to put your own source code
> under the GPL license. If you are just doing Open Source work, this is
> usually fine, however, if you want to develop commercial applications,
> this is not acceptable for obvious reasons. That is where the idea of
> dual licensing kicks in. We offer a second, commercial license, that
> will allow you to develop proprietary products based on XMLVM. Note  
> that
> the idea of dual licensing is not new. Projects such as MySQL and  
> JBoss
> have been doing this for a long time.
>
> Our commercial license is a non-transferrable GPL Linking Exception  
> (or
> just linking exception for short) that takes away the 'viral'  
> component
> of the GPL. This means, if we grant you a linking exception, you are
> *not* required to release your own application that is based on  
> XMLVM to
> the Open Source. This linking exception is not transferrable. You  
> cannot
> transfer this right to your customers.
>
> What is somewhat new with XMLVM is that we still want XMLVM to be a
> community project. That means, we hope and encourage the community to
> make contributions to XMLVM. It is important to us that we do not  
> leave
> the perception of exploiting contributors via our commercial license.
> For that reason we have come up with a way to 'reward' outside
> contributors: If you make a (non-trivial) contribution to XMLVM, we  
> will
> give you a commercial license (i.e., non-transferrable linking
> exception) that will allow you to develop a commercial application  
> with
> XMLVM without sharing your proceeds with us.
>
> Of course there are some details that need to be clarified and there
> have been some questions on the mailing list regarding the details.  
> Let
> us make a specific example: you send us a patch to XMLVM that is
> non-trivial (lets not get into the discussion on what is a non-trivial
> contribution. There is obviously no objective way of measuring the
> quality of a contribution. We will make that call on a case-by-case
> basis). If we (the XMLVM Core Team) agrees to merge your patch with  
> the
> code base of XMLVM, we will give you a non-transferrable linking
> exception in return. In terms of the scope of this non-transferrable
> linking exception, there are several components: (1) to which  
> version of
> XMLVM does the linking exception apply? (2) who is the recipient of  
> the
> linking exception? (3) what is the duration of the linking exception?
> Let me address these issues individually.
>
> (1) we do not maintain an official versioning scheme for XMLVM. Things
> happen so fast in our code base that we do not plan to introduce
> official version numbers. In the future we might change this, but for
> now, we simply refer to the Subversion revision numbers. The linking
> exception is issued for the version of XMLVM that includes the
> contributors patch and any version of XMLVM released in the  
> following 6
> months. For really significant contributions we are willing to extend
> that time frame.
>
> (2) the linking exception is issued to the contributor of the patch.
> This can be an individual or the company for which the contributor
> works. This will allow the individual/company to develop applications
> that can be sold to their customers without having to share revenues
> with the XMLVM Core Team. The linking exception *cannot* be  
> transferred
> to the customers of the contributor.
>
> (3) for the versions of XMLVM for which we issue the linking  
> exception,
> the usage is not limited to the aforementioned 6 months. I.e., 6  
> months
> after you made your contribution you may still use older versions of
> XMLVM for commercial purposes. Only if you want to benefit from new
> features introduced to XMLVM after those 6 months, you will need to  
> make
> another contribution to XMLVM to extend the duration of the linking
> exception.
>
> I would like to start a discussion with you guys on the mailing  
> list to
> refine these rules. Again, we want to strike a balance between your
> legitimate commercial interest and ours.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> Arno
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:26:18 +0100
> From: Arno Puder <ar...@pu...>
> Subject: [xmlvm-users] Google TechTalk
> To: "xml...@li..."
> 	<xml...@li...>
> Message-ID: <4B9...@pu...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> Guys,
>
> I was fortunate enough to get invited by Google to talk about XMLVM as
> part of their TechTalk series. If you are interested, there is a
> recording on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG-NIt2O5J8
>
> Here is a link to the slides:
> http://xmlvm.org/slides/android2iphone-google-mtv.pdf
>
> Arno
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:54:59 +0200
> From: Panayotis Katsaloulis <pan...@pa...>
> Subject: Re: [xmlvm-users] Clarifications on the Linking Exception
> To: xml...@li...
> Message-ID: <6CA...@pa...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>>
>> (3) for the versions of XMLVM for which we issue the linking
>> exception,
>> the usage is not limited to the aforementioned 6 months. I.e., 6
>> months
>> after you made your contribution you may still use older versions of
>> XMLVM for commercial purposes. Only if you want to benefit from new
>> features introduced to XMLVM after those 6 months, you will need to
>> make
>> another contribution to XMLVM to extend the duration of the linking
>> exception.
>
>
> I'll comment at first this part, how long this exception will be.
>
> I don't believe this is fair enough.
> I believe it is fair, if this exception will last as long as the patch
> will last.
> If you continue to use a specific patch (or in other terms, this patch
> is useful to you), then I believe you should grand the linking
> exception to the person who sent a patch (or in other words, you
> should be useful to him). Moreover I think 6 months is a very limited
> time period. Usually licenses last (at least) a year.
>
> And still, I have this question, which I posted in a previous post of
> mine:
> for example today I work in a company and I send a patch. In (let's
> say) a month I go to another company. Can I still develop with xmlvm
> or should I do something else (like making them to pay or send another
> patch or whatever) ?
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> ------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> --------
> Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmlvm-users mailing list
> xml...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xmlvm-users
>
>
> End of xmlvm-users Digest, Vol 9, Issue 8
> *****************************************